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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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All petty imperiums that get a warning form Emperor are threats to Abomination. Imposter does not want knowledge about Emperor being separate and still existing entity spreading.

Alex pears said:
The abomination can tell them, it must hate the fact that Lin's alive as quite possibly the last spark of emps soul still active and we've gone into it's realm and defied it directly.
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Oh, I forget about that little stunt of Ridcully, Xavier and Lin. We are not just on Abomination's to-kill list, but in one of the top positions. Great.

Andres110 said:
Perhaps an actual heresy, then? Make up a god and start a cult surrounding it with the aim of weakening them from within. Fixes the problem of worshipping a dead god instead of a living god of the same name. As for its contagiousness, Chaos isn't omnipotent, even in areas they control. There are plenty of Norscans who only pay lip service to the Chaos Gods out of simple disinterest, or worship other gods entirely. While slaves kept on daemon worlds do get corrupted they often don't get corrupted enough that they start worshipping Chaos.
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Problem is that Norscans are from FB, which runs on a bit different rules. Though there are loyalists among slaves even on Daemon Worlds.

BTW, I have a stupid idea. What if we spread genestealer cults?:D
 
Shard said:
How hard is it, really, to terraform a world that has been Exterminatus'ed?
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Depends what was used to exterminatus it.

Life Eater Virus just needs a new atmosphere, Cycolnic torpedoes basically nothing you do will speed it up.

2 stage torpedoes really destroy the world so I won't include them.
 
Also depends on how good it should become.
Muspelheim is not really better than a planet hit by Cyclonic Torpedos and thanks to technologie people survive there.
 
i think some people dont get the idea about taking a ork world is to park alot of our army and navy there and know where the orks are gonna attack is going to be massive thing(we have prefabricated fortresses stc available so our deployment and defense would be pretty great even on a non homeworld world) . It wouldnt be a disaster if the orks hit any of our worlds that dont have weak defenses but it could turn into that if they hit several at once it can become a distraction and there might be alot more of success for the orks than invadin one world.

.. Basicly the thought is that we would know where we are fighting orks if we took a ork world more or less with like in the 90%-s certanity range when we have about 10% if guessing where they attack us otherwise atm and few of the options are actually kinda bad for us (if u can gurantee the orks hit is at one place only then i would risk it but there are 3 ork bosses in the sector and if they dont wanna fight in the same system they could do a 3 pronged invasion for example and lead their own troops against diffrent worlds very easily and even that is logical to be honest if they do a joint invasion?)

I imagine valinor will attack us but it might take abit to gather enough assets to be worthwhile beside a probe or two for information i imagine? And they might weaken the blood dragons invasion for assets since im pretty sure we are a very very high priority target for the abomination. Doing the same invasion option to valinor is a idea - especially if there are interesting targets available again to get attention to that world again and maybe to help the blood dragons a little if we become a distraction on our terms instead of valinors? Or just raid them for infrastructure damage(damage industrial worlds and shipyard places to make longterm success easier).

If we are succesful against orks we really should colonize the worlds we conquer/cleanse since there are limits to what 10 worlds can do and to reclaim them for humanity in general beside general expansion and to keep the orks down asewell.

and im not so sure about how to keep valinor humans down even if we are succesful and they should be manpower pits and lots of cult stuff for awhile.

We ourselves cant help very much but as people have jokingly said , midgard can export alot of people and especially if we fiddle with population controll stuff altough at current growth rates we could done like one or two at a time ourselves after smurf help runs out . ( like 1 bil starting per system to start with generous material aid a part of wich we can help - this is a thing we can do especially if keep expanding regular resource production wich we have horrific amounts to spare at the moment since our issues seem to be AM and EM and there limits how much we can trade away anyway and the need isnt there tbh beside some metal issues wich can be solved by doing both mining options).

Another thing since we are the 2nd shipyard of the trust , we could try offering services building/repairing hulks for other worlds who want stuff in trades beside the main shipyard wich has like a century backlog especially if they are willing to do AM or EM trades(paying for those trades with shipyard time)? There arent very very major naval actions to be honest and doing one action of it a turn is realistic and it would improve the speed of naval asset expansion in general or doing some of our fleet or did we outsource it in whole to vanaheim. Midgard for example wanted to do alot of cheaper cruisers for their naval ambition with few battleships thrown in and escorts aswell for their troops transports so they wont be reliant on trust for their army transports escorts and to bulk out the general navy numbers and i dont how much of that is done sofar.

questions for durin or if anyone else knows?

1)How much did our help speed up varangian guard recovery? Cause a century was mentioned in the original smurf post before our massive help?
2)Why havent they started recruiting or have they cause there is extinction level threat for them thanks to the warpstorm ending ?
3)Gene seed availability is a question i guess depending on how many they have to start with was my thought for expansion problems?
4)And if geneseed is a problem then u could do geneseed farming with vat slaves(this is especially a good idea if they arent recruiting atm)?
5)Was the 1k number limit abandoned even if it takes awhile to get past that?
 
atrophy said:
1)How much did our help speed up varangian guard recovery? Cause a century was mentioned in the original smurf post before our massive help?
2)Why havent they started recruiting or have they cause there is extinction level threat for them thanks to the warpstorm ending ?
3)Gene seed availability is a question i guess depending on how many they have to start with was my thought for expansion problems?
4)And if geneseed is a problem then u could do geneseed farming with vat slaves(this is especially a good idea if they arent recruiting atm)?
5)Was the 1k number limit abandoned even if it takes awhile to get past that?
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1) They appreciated it. Now we're even because they give us information about supersoldiers raising.
2) Probably because they'd rather use geneseed for vat clones to increase numbers?
3) 30
4) They do.
5) Yes, they want 20K marines per chapter now(or 10K? Can't remember).
 
atrophy said:
1)How much did our help speed up varangian guard recovery? Cause a century was mentioned in the original smurf post before our massive help?
2)Why havent they started recruiting or have they cause there is extinction level threat for them thanks to the warpstorm ending ?
3)Gene seed availability is a question i guess depending on how many they have to start with was my thought for expansion problems?
4)And if geneseed is a problem then u could do geneseed farming with vat slaves(this is especially a good idea if they arent recruiting atm)?
5)Was the 1k number limit abandoned even if it takes awhile to get past that?
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1) Dunno
2, 3) 4) They do use slaves
5) They aim at 25k according to the latest answer
 
Briefvoice said:
Take it up with the Security Council, because they seem to think the answer is yes.
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They learned warfare from the Imperium. A vast realm mostly made up of soft targets. For the Imperium having a single 'choke point' that enemies would attack made sense as it allowed them to concentrate their forces and thus protect a large number of worlds with a minimum of forces.

The Imperial Trust is in the opposite position. Even the least fortified of our established worlds is well above the Imperial average and some make Cadia look fragile.

atrophy said:
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Several flaws in that thinking.
1) Concentrating all the Orks into one place is a Bad Thing. The more Orks you have gathered together the stronger their Waaagh field, meaning better tech and a higher proportion of elite/specialist Orks.
2) Spreading out helps us quite a bit. If they attack several of our worlds then we get to fight them with the Trust IG, all the PDF of the attacked planets, all of the militia of the attacked planets and all the emplaced defences of the attacked planets. Whereas if they are trying to recapture a single world then all we have to stop the equally large but far more concentrated and thus more powerful Waaagh is the Trust IG and any forces the worlds choose to ship out there.

To just take a world and 'draw a line in the sand' gives them the initiative. They get to decide when they are ready to attack us. They get to decide if they are going to fall for the taunt rather than hitting one of our worlds.

No the best defence here is offense. Go in, smash their fleets, kill the warboss(s) and then pull back to let the Orks now trapped in their systems slaughter each other for a while. Repeat as needed.
 
Angelform said:
They learned warfare from the Imperium. A vast realm mostly made up of soft targets. For the Imperium having a single 'choke point' that enemies would attack made sense as it allowed them to concentrate their forces and thus protect a large number of worlds with a minimum of forces.

The Imperial Trust is in the opposite position. Even the least fortified of our established worlds is well above the Imperial average and some make Cadia look fragile.
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You make a convincing case... but then again I'm just some non-military dude on a message board. If I think they're wrong, I'm going to assume it's because there's some deeper logic there that I'm not smart enough to get.
 
Briefvoice said:
You make a convincing case... but then again I'm just some non-military dude on a message board. If I think they're wrong, I'm going to assume it's because there's some deeper logic there that I'm not smart enough to get.
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I think partially, the deeper logic is that Durin would find this much easier to simulate. As far as DMs go, Durin seems fairly easy going, but I think abandoning his recommended, easy to run strat, in favour of something complicated might lead to him making that strategy less effective. Alternatively, if we come up with something cool, and simple, he might reward us with a better casualty ratio.

Would it be possible for Ridcully to look for easy targets we could smash up and then run away from? Getting our fleet put raiding as soon as they take notice of us is probably a good idea.
 
Piren'e Colass said:
I think partially, the deeper logic is that Durin would find this much easier to simulate. As far as DMs go, Durin seems fairly easy going, but I think abandoning his recommended, easy to run strat, in favour of something complicated might lead to him making that strategy less effective. Alternatively, if we come up with something cool, and simple, he might reward us with a better casualty ratio.
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It's also not strictly speaking up to us anyway. We could make speeches against the idea and spend political capital to get the High Council to vote it down, or we could just let the Trust's military machinery go do its thing.
 
My first question was about did our extreme help speed up the apparent 100 years mentioned for chapter to become functional faster for elite elite troops or did others send just less stuff thanks to our massive help and nothing changed on that angle?

20-25k seems a pretty great number to aim to get maximum amount of punch out of our space marines eventually.

And i do agree that conquering a ork world and fighting for it is a generic imperial idea but we can do it better than the imperium could and as large scale as the fighting is gonna become as i imagine then i think then i would prefer it the damage to be inflicted not on one of our worlds or our own one. And it seems easier to write aswell , and i imagine at first we would fight the warlord whose planet we took instead of just waiting for a attack to happen? And could fight them in dribs and drabs then aswell?

Raiding valinor seems alot more realistic as a nice present of us coming out of the warpstorm? I dont neccesarily mean valinor itself , maybe other important worlds in the sector and using divination again for a target list options and we should have generic records for our sector very easily? And they could react badly to it by coming after us at half steam instead of waiting for awhile to build up forces before invading.
 
atrophy said:
My first question was about did our extreme help speed up the apparent 100 years mentioned for chapter to become functional faster for elite elite troops or did others send just less stuff thanks to our massive help and nothing changed on that angle?
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Yes, we got they're support base set up faster (15 years for level 6 defense cities) and a massive supply of good aspirants.

The thing is they're being smart in case they're wiped out.

It would be more accurate to say that when they start recruiting in earnest that will go at lightning speed.

atrophy said:
And i do agree that conquering a ork world and fighting for it is a generic imperial idea but we can do it better than the imperium could and as large scale as the fighting is gonna become as i imagine then i think then i would prefer it the damage to be inflicted not on one of our worlds or our own one. And it seems easier to write aswell , and i imagine at first we would fight the warlord whose planet we took instead of just waiting for a attack to happen? And could fight them in dribs and drabs then aswell?
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Not really, the Imperium could manage to conquer ork worlds because they had unlimited man power (practically) something we do not.

Compared to the Orks even Aflehiem's troops are stupid good (hell even compared to the Imperium's Aflehiem's are good), but Midgards armies are only the size of a smallish crusade with the other worlds not contributing even a fraction of that amount.

atrophy said:
Raiding valinor seems alot more realistic as a nice present of us coming out of the warpstorm? I dont neccesarily mean valinor itself , maybe other important worlds in the sector and using divination again for a target list options and we should have generic records for our sector very easily? And they could react badly to it by coming after us at half steam instead of waiting for awhile to build up forces before invading.
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Gonna have to Scan them first, but our records are probably useless, Orks and Nids destroyed everything, but us and Valinor.

As for provoking them... no won't work.

The issue is that these are not the normal chaos forces, they have discipline that before was almost unheard of in their forces, proper supply lines ect.

Really any confrontation with them depends on who can cut a path through the ork worlds and hold it because otherwise both fleets will be isolated in enemy territory.

That being said if we complete the Gilioth we can "cheat" a bit.
 
the main reason for trying to take an Ork World to bait the Orks is that if they are attacking your worlds they will do significant damage to your industries, with only a few worlds having the fortifications to limit this and even then losing cities being possible
 
Durin said:
the main reason for trying to take an Ork World to bait the Orks is that if they are attacking your worlds they will do significant damage to your industries, with only a few worlds having the fortifications to limit this and even then losing cities being possible
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Oh hell.

If they attack Vanahiem it's going to put the Trusts ship production back centuries...

Sigh.

@Durin
1. How useful would the Golioth be to long term raiding missions?
 
Unless we're looking to colonise the ork worlds, we can just focus on our ships. We'll take out their fleets and Exterminatus the planets with orbital bombardment. The problem is that we're running on a timeline of millennia and those inhabitable planets would be valuable in the long-term.
 
Andres110 said:
Unless we're looking to colonise the ork worlds, we can just focus on our ships. We'll take out their fleets and Exterminatus the planets with orbital bombardment. The problem is that we're running on a timeline of millennia and those inhabitable planets would be valuable in the long-term.
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you would suffer massive naval casualties, Exterminatus via orbital bombardment takes some time and requires that you destroy all stationary defences, there is a reason that land armies are used in 40k, even by those who do not care about the worlds
 
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