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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Shard said:
1. Just wondering, how many dice do you expect to roll (per turn) for Avernus now?
2. How many dice would you roll per turn on average before?
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1. a hundred or two
2. a thousand

Angelform said:
1 Would doing so cause relations loss?
1b How much?
1c What do Klovis-Ultan and Ridcully think are the best ways of mitigating the backlash?
2 Why have none of them ever made a fuss about us copying xeno psyker powers previously?
3 Do they keep track of what our psykers are researching?
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1. yes
1b. unknown, medium
1c. spend a lot of time researching anything they tell you before using it
2. because you are figuring out how to do something that they do, rather then being given xenos knowledge and then using it
3. yes
 
Durin said:
1. a hundred or two
2. a thousand
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Dear gods you put a lot of effort into this.

1. yes
1b. unknown, medium
1c. spend a lot of time researching anything they tell you before using it
2. because you are figuring out how to do something that they do, rather then being given xenos knowledge and then using it
3. yes
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So we can do it but best to do it slowly, fair enough.
Best get started then.
 
So we have a tie at the moment. The plan @noliar does not include the Macharius Mega-Vanquishers, and I think that's a real problem. I know that people want to get the infrastructure built up as quickly as possible, but if we try to do that without considering our other needs we're going to suffer for it. I am in agreement that at least one of Scott's possible actions should always be advancing that, but there are many other things that must be done and we can't always spend both actions on it. Four years building tanks to kill that can pose a significant threat to the Ork equivalent of Titans is time well invested.

Just a reminder of what Garkill threw at us over 800 years ago (in real galactic time):

Assault on Silver Lake:
20 Stompas
10 Gargants
1 Great Gargant

Assault on the Fens:
112 Stompas
56 Gargants
5 Great Gargants

Landed before retreat (would have likely been even more had a retreat not happened):
64 Stompas
32 Gargants
3 Great Gargants

Totals:
196 Stompas
98 Gargants
9 Great Gargants.

Just a reminder - Stompas are the Ork equivalent of Warhound Titans, Gargants are Reaver equivalents, and Great Gargants are Warlord equivelants. While they don't match up to Imperial Titans in quality, the Garkill has a massive quantity of them and him or any other Ork Warboss who attacks us is going to have a lot more than this. The Warboss also may target more than one city, meaning we can't rely on having enough of our higher end Titan killers available to deal with all fronts - 50 Regiments of Macharius Mega-Vanquishers gives us 10,000 heavy tanks we can deploy in multiple locations to deal with multi-pronged assaults. And if the Gargants are all in a single assault, we'll want the numbers anyways.

These are engines of war that are meant to destroy cities. Don't underestimate them. We could very well lose cities if we don't prepare well enough for them.

EDIT - Another issue with your plan, @noliar - you're expanding one of our Forge Cities while there might be an imminent attack. The defenses of those cities are actually decreased during the initial years of expansion because of the work being done. This could end up making Dorthonion an easier target for the Orks to destroy and loot.
 
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Enjou said:
These are engines of war that are meant to destroy cities. Don't underestimate them. We could very well lose cities if we don't prepare well enough for them.
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The counters to your statement is something along the lines of before we upgraded them with DAoT tech the only thing that could breach our walls would be a full titan legion.

Now with the DAoT upgrade, the larger numbers of psykers, the Leman Russ Vanquishers which can also act as anti titan, the Fellswords (or are they the felblades... the ones with the Nutron obliteraters. And I say this because we have at least 10 of them from the hyper carrier.) which are titan killers its reasonable to assume that we can make do.

I'm not too concerned either way.
 
@Durin

1. Does Ridcully predict an attack on any of the trust worlds in the next 5 years?
2. How far in the future can Ridcully predict attacks? (Or lack thereof.)
3.

@Enjou

1. Your plan lacks Expand: Helguard, which we can afford.
2. Missionaries are sorta pointless at the moment since we're basically surrounded by either Orks or Chaos-Valinor, which are terrible places to send missionaries to.
-I'd suggest instead timing Examine Curse in Y3 so there's a +20 Twice bonus.

Those are mostly the issues I have, though if we aren't having an attack in the next 5 years, other details need changing as well.

(Do we really need Surt's charsheet? Also worth noting that odds of attribute improvement isn't very good, and I'd rather spend some time with Xavier instead of Zaren (Or spend more time with Klovis to increase the odds.). Also, no Re-examine actions? We could Re-examine Zaren and Olaf.)
 
Alex pears said:
The counters to your statement is something along the lines of before we upgraded them with DAoT tech the only thing that could breach our walls would be a full titan legion.

Now with the DAoT upgrade, the larger numbers of psykers, the Leman Russ Vanquishers which can also act as anti titan, the Fellswords (or are they the felblades... the ones with the Nutron obliteraters. And I say this because we have at least 10 of them from the hyper carrier.) which are titan killers its reasonable to assume that we can make do.

I'm not too concerned either way.
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1. Again, Ork Gargants ARE Titans. They just are more numerous and lower in quality, but they are of the same type of unit. And the Orks are going to field them in numbers that are Legion sized. Remember that Garkill took over Danaan, a world that had a Titan Legion on it as well as being a heavily fortified Fortress World that had been around since the DAoT. Also, remember that the Orks nearly did breach our walls last time they came - the Fens was pressed rather hard. Do you really think that durin is going to throw an enemy at us that can't actually be a threat to us?

2. The Fellswords are great, but we have a limited number of them - we can't really use them effectively if the Orks send large numbers of Gargants at multiple cities. They can also only fire so many shots at once. Again, the Orks are going to have A LOT of Gargants.


Shard said:
1. Your plan lacks Expand: Helguard, which we can afford.
2. Missionaries are sorta pointless at the moment since we're basically surrounded by either Orks or Chaos-Valinor, which are terrible places to send missionaries to.
-I'd suggest instead timing Examine Curse in Y3 so there's a +20 Twice bonus.

Those are mostly the issues I have, though if we aren't having an attack in the next 5 years, other details need changing as well.
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I'll go ahead and start on the Helguard since I was thinking of doing it anyways.

I'll also make the change on the curse so we're doubling up on it - I don't see @Durin having answered the questions on whether or not we could, so I'm just going to ask forgiveness rather than permission.

EDIT - Done.

(Do we really need Surt's charsheet? Also worth noting that odds of attribute improvement isn't very good, and I'd rather spend some time with Xavier instead of Zaren (Or spend more time with Klovis to increase the odds.). Also, no Re-examine actions? We could Re-examine Zaren and Olaf.)
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1. We're trying to get Klovis-Ultan's character sheet. We already have Surt's.
2. People want to spend time with Surt so he might be more inclined to tell us his secrets by improving our personal relationship with him.
3. I could do a re-examine or two if people want. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?
 
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Enjou said:
1. Again, Ork Gargants ARE Titans. They just are more numerous and lower in quality, but they are of the same type of unit. And the Orks are going to field them in numbers that are Legion sized. Remember that Garkill took over Danaan, a world that had a Titan Legion on it as well as being a heavily fortified Fortress World that had been around since the DAoT. Also, remember that the Orks nearly did breach our walls last time they came - the Fens was pressed rather hard. Do you really think that durin is going to throw an enemy at us that can't actually be a threat to us?
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No, (well he once accidentally), but to try and counter the argument Danaan as you yourself noted was most likely incapable of maintaining its stuff properly.


I would also note that our walls have not been tested against anything, but demons since the last time, and since we hadn't finished the refit it's not a good comparison.

Enjou said:
2. The Fellswords are great, but we have a limited number of them - we can't really use them effectively if the Orks send large numbers of Gargants at multiple cities. They can also only fire so many shots at once. Again, the Orks are going to have A LOT of Gargants.
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And each city has thousands of macro lasors and cannons to say high to him with.

With or without the marcharius's our cities are going to put a heavy dent in his forces maybe even cripple them entirely.

As I said though if either plan wins its good, unless Garkill does something crazy the only way into our cities are his Gargants.

That being said I am concerned about places like Silver Lake.

Orks do like attacking places they lost at before, like Ghazkul and Hades Hive (Yarrick beat him there in the Second war in the third he came back and took it specifically)
 
[X] Plan Enjou T84

@Enjou I like your plan, but I would suggest a couple of changes

1. Despite the Temple cats being a very interesting species i would prioritize the Detailed Survey (Sun Beetle) since they are the most dangerous creature there, that would be convenient, we can as try to research the Hator Beasts

2 I think we should start this turn with the Psyker Quarters this turn, we will start getting our Psyker Cities overcrowded in 4-5 turns, and being a 2 turn action, better to get it done ASAP
 
Good point about them probably trying again at Silver Lake. Changing the Forge Hive expansion from Dorthonion which is on an island they mostly ignored to Silver Lake. Because if If I was marching my Gargants against a city then a fortified building site filled with angry Mechanicus would not be my preferred terrain.
 
noliar said:
Good point about them probably trying again at Silver Lake. Changing the Forge Hive expansion from Dorthonion which is on an island they mostly ignored to Silver Lake. Because if If I was marching my Gargants against a city then a fortified building site filled with angry Mechanicus would not be my preferred terrain.
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Just a note: Dorthonion is in Lindon, the forest region. It's not on an island. None of our Forge Cities are on islands.
 
If Gargants are the big threats we can expect in the near future, then wouldn't it be prudent to fix our damaged Warlord Titan?
Mechanicus Unrest aside upgrading the thing will be a massive boon.
 
HanEmpire said:
If Gargants are the big threats we can expect in the near future, then wouldn't it be prudent to fix our damaged Warlord Titan?
Mechanicus Unrest aside upgrading the thing will be a massive boon.
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The upgrade would take ten years, and I think it likely that the attack will come some time during next turn, so the chances we'd finish the upgrade are slim. It's also one Titan against many Gargants, so it's somewhat limited in that respect. Titans are best used offensively in my opinion anyways.
 
Enjou said:
Just a note: Dorthonion is in Lindon, the forest region. It's not on an island. None of our Forge Cities are on islands.
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There was an incident in one of our wars where we had a highly fortified island position bypassed by forces that were going to attack Dis, right?

Anyway Garkill does have history with Silver Lakes so I'm keeping the change.

edit: Our best killers of Gargants and landed Roks last time were Deathstrike cruise missiles. We have 50 batteries. We have more wall guns, more Basilisks, more Vanquishers, more aircraft and we've just started an expansion that will increase the numbers of all these titan killers. I'm not saying I don't want Macharius Mega Vanquishers by the thousand but using the action on something else hardly leaves us helpless against Gargants.
 
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Enjou said:
Ok, here's my plan. It's similar to Portec's in some respects, but there are a number of differences. As always subject to some changes due to discussion.

.
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[x]Plan Enjou T84

One thing with the Diplomatic Actions- it would be better to do Svartalfhiem instead of Jotunhiem, its at 8/10 compared to Jotunhiem's 11/10 and we haven't done them in at least a decade.
 
Shard said:
@Durin

1. Does Ridcully predict an attack on any of the trust worlds in the next 5 years?
2. How far in the future can Ridcully predict attacks? (Or lack thereof.)
3.

@Enjou

1. Your plan lacks Expand: Helguard, which we can afford.
2. Missionaries are sorta pointless at the moment since we're basically surrounded by either Orks or Chaos-Valinor, which are terrible places to send missionaries to.
-I'd suggest instead timing Examine Curse in Y3 so there's a +20 Twice bonus.

Those are mostly the issues I have, though if we aren't having an attack in the next 5 years, other details need changing as well.

(Do we really need Surt's charsheet? Also worth noting that odds of attribute improvement isn't very good, and I'd rather spend some time with Xavier instead of Zaren (Or spend more time with Klovis to increase the odds.). Also, no Re-examine actions? We could Re-examine Zaren and Olaf.)
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1. the divine attack option is there for a reason, I am not providing you the answer without you taking it
2. variable

you can double with Piety choices
 
@Durin
1. Before Garkill came you said (through Dragio) that the only thing that could bust our walls was a Titan legion (how many I don't know). With the DAoT upgrades what's Schwart's estimation?
2. Is Scott coming under pressure to repair Sanctus Forum?
3. In Embers verse what took down Thrakadaka?
4. What if question. If we hadn't taken Lin's spiritual retreat, or the roll for how long it would be had been 1 year longer or shorter what would have happened?
5. What would have happened if Lin had critted the roll?
 
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Alex pears said:
@Durin
1. Before Garkill came you said (through Dragio) that the only thing that could bust our walls was a Titan legion (how many I don't know). With the DAoT upgrades what's Schwart's estimation?
2. Is Scott coming under pressure to repair Sanctus Forum?
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1. Titan Legions could still smash though your walls, as could any of their equivalents such as Gargents, as could large enough numbers (Tyranids have proved that swarm tactics are hard to defend against for long)
2. yes though not a massive amount
 
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