Remove ads

The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
Reader mode
Considering adding the following paragraph, but think it should be discussed first:

Frankly, you've tended to see the Quartok as a minor side issue that could be more easily worked on while being patient with what Avernus sees as the greater difficulty. There have been several advances by the Avernite Mechanicus in their understanding of the Dark Age technology, what with the exploration of the graveyard, and the discovery of the datacore in the Sword of Sutur. However, more conservative elements in the Mechanicus, based primarily on Vanaheim, have been resistant to these new discoveries, and the way they require changing older assumptions. With death of General-Fabricator Britton, you have been advising the new Fabricator-General to be cautious in exploring this new knowledge to avoid conflicts within the Mechanicus. However, this does mean delays in significant improvements in ships and military equipment, which for Avernites can be a matter of life or death. For example, there is a improvement in ship reactors that has been delayed in being researched due to concerns about how the Mechanicus on Vanaheim might react.

​
This would mean opening up a big can of worms, but it might help to have more than just us thinking about these issues.
 
[X] Plan Proposing Options

Elder Haman said:
This would mean opening up a big can of worms, but it might help to have more than just us thinking about these issues.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
MMM...

The reactor designs are definitely things that would appeal to the more military minded Vanir, 50% more power is a lot of power by any stretch of the imagination especially given how much more powerful the current reactors are compared to the Imperial norm.

If we do that and if they have connections to the Vanir admech then we could try, but on the other hand it could be seen as trying too soon.
 
Last edited:
Elder Haman said:
Considering adding the following paragraph, but think it should be discussed first:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think it is worth adding.

I think you should remove this part however: "which for Avernites can be a matter of life or death".

It comes across as too self-interested I think, particularly in view of the rising prosperity of Avernus.

In any case, I like your plan. It eliminates at a stoke the elements that made me uncomfortable with other plans.

[X] Plan Proposing Options

fasquardon
 
Elder Haman said:
6: Recently the Avenus Mechanicus has completed an initial study of the Goliath Factory ship, and believes that they could design and construct new ones. Considering the significance of Vanaheim as the major shipyard of the Imperial Trust, as well as Vanaheim's extensive experience in major space construction, Vanaheim would make a natural partner in constructing any new Goliath Factory ships. Perhaps an agreement could be reached to build some of these ships, though actual construction may have to wait a few decades while design work is completed first.

7. Recently the Avernus Mechanicus has completed an initial study of the Ramilies Starfort and believes they can design and construct new ones. This is a major effort, and requires a significant amount of additional design work long before any construction could start, but it should be very possible. Considering the significance of Vanaheim as the major shipyard of the Imperial Trust, as well as Vanaheim's extensive experience in major space construction, it seems reasonable that Vanaheim would be the best location for constructing a new Starfort. Perhaps an joint project would be the best approach, involving the Mechanicus on both worlds as well as construction teams from both worlds. Avernus could help in the financing of the Starfort.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honestly I don't think these are all that beneficial in terms of strengthening Olaf's position. Once the designs are done, Vanaheim is going to be making these anyways - they have the big shipyards and orbital construction teams that can operate in other systems so they can do both types of construction without our assistance, so what do they really gain from our involvement? Though @durin might comment on that if I'm wrong on this.
 
This is separate, but who here thinks we can, and should, be able to put a upgraded Ramilies over every planet in the Trust?
 
Another thing I thought of.

Those Vanir agents that got arrested, maybe we could suggest banishment to Avernus as their "punishment."

That has a poetic element to it, and allows the posturing of "I sent them to the death world planet they decided they liked so much batter than our world."

But it also benefits us in the fact that we are able to stand by our agents and show them loyalty instead of leaving them to rot in jail. So you know that if you work for Avernus they won't abandon you if you get caught.

Plus we get some Vanir in our population, and they might have some useful skills in the space industry...
 
Enjou said:
Honestly I don't think these are all that beneficial in terms of strengthening Olaf's position. Once the designs are done, Vanaheim is going to be making these anyways - they have the big shipyards and orbital construction teams that can operate in other systems so they can do both types of construction without our assistance, so what do they really gain from our involvement? Though @durin might comment on that if I'm wrong on this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

1: Avernus will be helping finance some of this.
2: Vanaheim gets to be involved from the beginning, allowing some of the prestige to accrue to them instead of Avernus
3: (A sub effect of #2) The Vanaheim Mechanicus will actually get to be involved in the process of building it, and so it maight help with our Mechanicus problems as well.
 
Elder Haman said:
Those Vanir agents that got arrested, maybe we could suggest banishment to Avernus as their "punishment."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't know, Olaf's opponents might just claim that it's repatriation in disguise.

EDIT: Your plan covers everything that Enjou's plan does and then some. Since we're just laying out the options right now, why not?
[X] Plan Proposing Options
 
Last edited:
Enjou said:
Avernus being such a young world is one, and it's culture is still quite fluid in comparison to the other members of the Trust that have had millennia to establish their traditions and beliefs. Also, living on Avernus is not only a constant struggle for survival but involves battling with the Ruinous Powers every day - even with the number of cultists having decreased to record lows since the fall of the Imperium, it's still a worry for you, and the Abomination is still the worst. It forces you to take a very pragmatic view of things like tradition and your very beliefs, and then discarding any that hinder survival or are vectors for corruption. This colors your perspective on certain issues, and it's sometimes easy to forget that the risks are much different for the other worlds in the Trust.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This reeks of bullshit. The conservatives will look at it and call it out for being pure rhetorical hogwash. It would also be implying that we think that their beliefs lead to Chaos, which would be insulting. I suggest replacing this with the proposed "I just want my friend to not hate my protectorate" which still kinda smells like bullshit, but less so and makes a simple sense.

Elder Haman said:
Plus we get some Vanir in our population, and they might have some useful skills in the space industry...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't believe we ever expanded our spy network specifically into their space industry so durin probably isn't gonna give us a bonus in this regard just because they're from Vanaheim. Besides, didn't we already share our techniques with one another when relations were high?
 
Andres110 said:
This reeks of bullshit. The conservatives will look at it and call it out for being pure rhetorical hogwash. It would also be implying that we think that their beliefs lead to Chaos, which would be insulting. I suggest replacing this with the proposed "I just want my friend to not hate my protectorate" which still kinda smells like bullshit, but less so and makes a simple sense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is just spiel we're giving to Olaf, who is a moderate and is friendly with Frederick, to explain Avernus' position. The conservatives won't hear it.
 
Elder Haman said:
1: Avernus will be helping finance some of this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm fairly certain that the amount involved in these projects is significantly less than the 10% of debt we'd already be forgiving. (it's over 4 trillion Thrones worth of credits we're forgiving, I believe)

2: Vanaheim gets to be involved from the beginning, allowing some of the prestige to accrue to them instead of Avernus
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They'd be involved anyways. Once we have the designs, Vanaheim will get them and they can construct as many Goliaths and Ramilies as they want. And given their superior shipyard capacity and the fact that they have enough orbital teams to work outside of their system, they'll be involved in anything outside of Vanaheim.

3: (A sub effect of #2) The Vanaheim Mechanicus will actually get to be involved in the process of building it, and so it maight help with our Mechanicus problems as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They'd be involved in the building of anything in Vanaheim's space anyways. Why wouldn't they?


Andres110 said:
This reeks of bullshit. The conservatives will look at it and call it out for being pure rhetorical hogwash. It would also be implying that we think that their beliefs lead to Chaos, which would be insulting. I suggest replacing this with the proposed "I just want my friend to not hate my protectorate" which still kinda smells like bullshit, but less so and makes a simple sense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is us talking to Olaf about our perspective, not anyone else.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Proposing Options

More options = more for Olaf (Durin) to choose from, and the more flexible he can be in his response.
 
@durin: Are there any problems or issues with Elder Haman's plan?
Elder Haman said:
[X] Plan Proposing Options

Firstly, admit that you may be a bit hasty in pushing for reforms. Avernus is a young world, and it's culture is still quite fluid in comparison to the other members of the Trust that have had millennia to establish their traditions and beliefs. Also, living on Avernus is not only a constant struggle for survival but involves battling with the Ruinous Powers every day - even with the number of cultists having decreased to record lows since the fall of the Imperium, it's still a worry for you, and the Abomination is still the worst. It forces you to take a very pragmatic view of things like traditions and beliefs, and then discarding any that hinder survival or are vectors for corruption. This colors your perspective on certain issues, and it's sometimes easy to forget that the risks are much different for the other worlds in the Trust.


For strengthening Olaf's position and building a long term friendship between Avernus and Vanaheim, you present the following possible actions, and you would like his feedback on how effective they would be in helping the situation. Then you can determine together which ones would be best to do:

1. Avernus could forgive up to 10% of the debt that Vanaheim owes, the most you can give up without looking foolish. You are open to Oalf's preference on how to present this. If it can be presented as a diplomatic victory that Oalf can take credit for, you are willing to go along with that.

2: Avernus could donate some portion of the debt towards building ships for the Imperial Trust Navy, not as tithes against your own shipbuilding but instead as a donation towards the greater good. This would assist Vanaheim in more ship building, but be more indirect than simply forgiving debt.

3. You are willing to spend a good deal of your personal time in the next few years visiting Vanaheim to improve diplomatic relations. Olaf can recommend who you should talk to and what kind of events you might attend. One idea would be for you to go on a cultural tour so that you can learn more about Vanaheim's history and traditions.

4. You can see about convincing Saint Lin to visit Vanaheim once he's finished his reformation in a couple years. While Lin tries to stay politically neutral and isn't likely to outright support Olaf, things like public appearances together and him meeting various notables would likely help without breaking that.

5. For trade deals, you are willing to give Vanaheim better pricing for metal over the next fifty years. Avernus currently has a shortage once trade is factored in, but you can guarantee you'll trade half of your current excess at minimum and make additional large trade deals at the same pricing once your mines are expanded.

6: Recently the Avenus Mechanicus has completed an initial study of the Goliath Factory ship, and believes that they could design and construct new ones. Considering the significance of Vanaheim as the major shipyard of the Imperial Trust, as well as Vanaheim's extensive experience in major space construction, Vanaheim would make a natural partner in constructing any new Goliath Factory ships. Perhaps an agreement could be reached to build some of these ships, though actual construction may have to wait a few decades while design work is completed first.

7. Recently the Avernus Mechanicus has completed an initial study of the Ramilies Starfort and believes they can design and construct new ones. This is a major effort, and requires a significant amount of additional design work long before any construction could start, but it should be very possible. Considering the significance of Vanaheim as the major shipyard of the Imperial Trust, as well as Vanaheim's extensive experience in major space construction, it seems reasonable that Vanaheim would be the best location for constructing a new Starfort. Perhaps an joint project would be the best approach, involving the Mechanicus on both worlds as well as construction teams from both worlds. Avernus could help in the financing of the Starfort.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top