The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
His main suggestions are having him manage some sort of political victory over you and in the longer term slowing you efforts to force the Imperial Trust to change
Well, the political victory is actually already there, as we gave him one with the 'quarter billion coins a year' thing:

You opposed the suggestion of raising Avernus' trade tariffs to pay for the Department of Quarantine on the grounds that it was unconstitutional but agreed to pay a quarter of a billion Thrones each year towards its upkeep as a purely voluntary choice. Governor Olaf seemed to take you offer in the spirit intended and was less hostile to you for the remainder of the meeting.

The 'slowing your efforts to force the imperial Trust to change' is actually in force already, it just does not seem that way because of five-year turns. ...so. What do we do then?
 
Just because it's not the root of the problem doesn't mean it would hurt to do it. Olaf needs political victories in order to keep his position - getting a big chunk of the debt to Avernus forgiven as reparations would be such a victory.

It's part of the solution, not the whole of it.
It's a stopgap measure at best. His approval ratings will only drop when it once again becomes apparent that he has failed to stop us from messing with Vanaheim sovereignty. Going down this path will only galvanize the conservatives to greater levels of resistance.
This is kinda true, we really don't care for they're beliefs.:V
And you don't realize why this has diplomatically kicked our ass over and over?
Well of course we are not listening. They are wrong. Us getting caught does not make their position any less stupid.
What's stupid is not knowing when to back down even when one is in the right. Namely us, example we have done more to harm the position of the Quartoks than the conservatives ever could.
Heck this is only really bad cause the people who caught us were Olaf's enemies not Olaf's people.
I assure you, whatever his enemies believe will also be what the majority of the Vanaheim populace believes. Olaf is not popular thanks to his ties to us and our actions against the sovereignty of the Vanaheim state. If we continue the way we are we'll only cause the conservatives to consolidate against us.
Hmm.... What are Vanaheims main problems right now, anyway?
Durin said:
Avernus cares nothing for the rest of the Imperial Trust's beliefs and is trying to highhandedly force the rest of the Trust into following their own beliefs and that Governor Olaf is too connected to Avernus to deal with the problem.
It's hilarious that Durin can all but say what we have to do and we'll pointedly ignore it just because it is inconvenient for us.

Which is exactly what we've been trying to do, repeatedly, to our own detriment. We're not the ruler of the trust, we're simply a member. No nation likes their sovereignty being threatened by an outside force. Giving them money and forgiving debt will quiet some complaints for a time but it doesn't address the issue which only makes things worse for us when we continue to confirm their fears with our actions.

No one likes the Xenos, Avernites were optimistic but after the scandal their approval dropped. The Xenos went from disliking to hating us, next is Vanaheim level loathing. Despite this, no one else in the trust is going to to take a fleet and bombard the Xenos cities. I seriously don't know why we're focusing on trying to change the trust's view of Xenos when we have done almost nothing diplomatically with the Xenos since they've arrived. Again, the Xenos hate us, we haven't proved to the trust at all that we can work with Xenos, quite the opposite in fact. Once the Xenos actually like us, then we can focus on changing the trust's view of them. Maybe once we've made some progress there we can bring it up in the next trust meeting. Until then, stop bringing up the quartok with the rest of the trust.

In fact, here's an idea. These next few years we work on building relations with the Quartok, as well as other members of the trust who are ambivalent towards us or further strengthen the bonds of the people who we're still in the good graces of. Then after sufficient time has passed we can revisit the issue with the Quartok in the trust. Why is this a better idea?

*We'll have backed off trying to change the Trust views for several generations mollifying Vanaheim.
*We'll actually be on decent terms with the Xenos we want everyone to accept
*We can call on favors in votes to get changes in trust structure that we want without risking getting our allies approval too low.
*The resources we save not spending time desperately trying to save opinion with other governments.
*We can stop reading about the parabolic curve of Vanaheim approval.

*We can go back to being memetic space Australians instead of a caricature of imperialist America.
*We can stop tempting a trust wide civil war with a misplaced crit fail,
*We can stop tempting the Vanaheim nobility to burn down our embassy.
 
It's a stopgap measure at best. His approval ratings will only drop when it once again becomes apparent that he has failed to stop us from messing with Vanaheim sovereignty. Going down this path will only galvanize the conservatives to greater levels of resistance.
That's why we're playing naughty school boy.

And you don't realize why this has diplomatically kicked our ass over and over?
We've only been "kicked" once.

What's stupid is not knowing when to back down even when one is in the right. Namely us, example we have done more to harm the position of the Quartoks than the conservatives ever could.
They're blaming us, not the Quartok.

I assure you, whatever his enemies believe will also be what the majority of the Vanaheim populace believes. Olaf is not popular thanks to his ties to us and our actions against the sovereignty of the Vanaheim state. If we continue the way we are we'll only cause the conservatives to consolidate against us.
No its the platform they're using @durin does most of vanaheim buy into it?
 
It's a stopgap measure at best. His approval ratings will only drop when it once again becomes apparent that he has failed to stop us from messing with Vanaheim sovereignty. Going down this path will only galvanize the conservatives to greater levels of resistance.
Stopgap measure is enough.
While I would prefer to get shit done before we get trouble with out neighbours it has been hinted that the inner problems will seem a lot smaller once we see the state of the galaxy.
 
That's why we're playing naughty school boy.
This tongue in cheek sorry not sorry isn't going to hold up. We're only gonna be punished as tensions rise. You think the what people think of us is only based on our rep numbers? That's a fucking joke, it's only gonna get worse as we stir up more controversies. In time we can make ourselves unpopular and controversial enough that even our close allies will prefer to distance themselves from us. This is why it is better that we increase our ties with those on the fence rather than Vanaheim which is and will continue to be against us.

We've only been "kicked" once.
Right and we haven't been trying to fix our rep with Vanaheim for as far back as the first demonic incursion :rolleyes:

They're blaming us, not the Quartok.
You think the Quartok have rights! how quaint.

Our reputation is their reputation, if we fail to show that humanity can work with Xenos, if we fail to show that the trust can trust us than they will never trust the Quartok. They live only because we shelter them, do you not understand this?

Stopgap measure is enough.
While I would prefer to get shit done before we get trouble with out neighbours it has been hinted that the inner problems will seem a lot smaller once we see the state of the galaxy.
Actually what will happen can vary greatly. If Vanaheim continues to feel so threatened they may ally themselves with those outside the Trust as a measure against us if we continue to encroach on their sovereignty. Not every imperial force outside the storm is gonna be chaos worshiping maniacs, that doesn't mean that everyone else is gonna be a bunch of Xeno lovers. The fact is that we're gonna be the load when it comes to any diplomatic ventures with the imperial remnants.

Any mistrust within the Trust is only going to be exacerbated once we start dealing with outside threats not lessened. How is anyone going to Trust us to have their back when we know we don't give a single damn about our own laws we put in place unless they suit us? All we have done is dig a deeper hole and kicked the consequences further down the road. It's only gonna get worse from here.
 
You think the Quartok have rights! how quaint.

Our reputation is their reputation, if we fail to show that humanity can work with Xenos, if we fail to show that the trust can trust us than they will never trust the Quartok. They live only because we shelter them, do you not understand this?
It was Word of God that they place the blame for what we did squarely on us and not the Quartok.
 
This tongue in cheek sorry not sorry isn't going to hold up. We're only gonna be punished as tensions rise. You think the what people think of us is only based on our rep numbers? That's a fucking joke, it's only gonna get worse as we stir up more controversies. In time we can make ourselves unpopular and controversial enough that even our close allies will prefer to distance themselves from us. This is why it is better that we increase our ties with those on the fence rather than Vanaheim which is and will continue to be against us.
Cause that's kinda what rep numbers are.

They are an indication of how much people like us as long as they are not in the negative they don't dislike us.

In any case we have excellent relations with those who were supposed to be on the fence, Midgard, Asgard and Jotunhiem.

Right and we haven't been trying to fix our rep with Vanaheim for as far back as the first demonic incursion :rolleyes:
Yeah cause we wanted a buffer so when things like this happened we weren't instantly in the red. Guess what it worked.

You think the Quartok have rights! how quaint.
Yes they do, they're outlined very clearly in the constitution.

Our reputation is their reputation, if we fail to show that humanity can work with Xenos, if we fail to show that the trust can trust us than they will never trust the Quartok. They live only because we shelter them, do you not understand this?
Nope they have they're own reputation they have a view of the trust and the Trust has a view of them.

Word of God states that the Vanir is just pissy at us.

Any mistrust within the Trust is only going to be exacerbated once we start dealing with outside threats not lessened. How is anyone going to Trust us to have their back when we know we don't give a single damn about our own laws we put in place unless they suit us? All we have done is dig a deeper hole and kicked the consequences further down the road. It's only gonna get worse from here.
Do you have any idea how tin hat you sound?

Unless the vanir can strap engines to vanahiem and fly off, they will never do that, cause guess what just as the Trust can beat Avernus so can Avernus beat vanaheim.

Heck even the people are not saying we're infringing on they're damn sovereignty, just that we're trampling on their beliefs and traditions.

geeze.
 
According to Olaf the oppostion are using this event as proof that Avernus cares nothing for the rest of the Imperial Trust's beliefs and is trying to highhandedly force the rest of the Trust into following their own beliefs
Technically speaking this is true, but it's only because their beliefs suck and our beliefs are awesome. Of course, thinking like this is probably what has them upset to begin with.

The oppostion goes on to claim that this event is just the latest in a series of issues, starting with the lobbying for the Quartok and including trade deals with soul-eating Xenos and installing a puppet Fabricator-General.

While Olaf knows that many of the accusations are baseless they have gained a great deal of traction among the Vanir and his positions is looking weak.
So Olaf doesn't know that we've lobbied for the Quartok, traded with the Sirens, and installed a puppet Fabricator-General? I mean technically we didn't do that last bit, it was our previous puppet Fabricator-General who installed our current puppet Fabricator-General, but still.
 
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I have no doubt that the mechanicus from Vanaheim fronted that one(puppet forge master) and they were most likely a group that has fallen to abomination worship
 
I have no doubt that the mechanicus from Vanaheim fronted that one(puppet forge master) and they were most likely a group that has fallen to abomination worship
The odds of them having fallen to Abomination worship are less likely than Scott having fallen to Tzeentch worship, what with the open Warp rifts and all.
 
His main suggestions are having him manage some sort of political victory over you and in the longer term slowing you efforts to force the Imperial Trust to change
For the first… what is Vanaheim up to? What big projects do they have going? Backing down on one of our projects or manufacturing a project he can beat us on will be problematic. It would be easier for him to put forward something to support his or his rival's agenda that we can show a token resistance for.

Second should be easy. We are about to have significantly greater issues than internal disagreements with our warp bubble bursting.

Something else we might try:
@durin is Lin up for spending some time on Vanaheim? His big reorganisation will complete soon and it could well be worth visiting the more conservative planets again. Smooth some ruffled feathers and reassure some frightened people.

It's a stopgap measure at best.
…yes? We need something immediate, stopgap or otherwise, to hold things together long enough to implement plans that will deal with the actual problem.
 
For the first… what is Vanaheim up to? What big projects do they have going? Backing down on one of our projects or manufacturing a project he can beat us on will be problematic. It would be easier for him to put forward something to support his or his rival's agenda that we can show a token resistance for.

Second should be easy. We are about to have significantly greater issues than internal disagreements with our warp bubble bursting.

Something else we might try:
@durin is Lin up for spending some time on Vanaheim? His big reorganisation will complete soon and it could well be worth visiting the more conservative planets again. Smooth some ruffled feathers and reassure some frightened people.

…yes? We need something immediate, stopgap or otherwise, to hold things together long enough to implement plans that will deal with the actual problem.
Lin is willing to spend some time on Vanaheim once he finishes the reformation
 
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