The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
The Fifth Meeting of the High Council Part Four: Naval Matters
The Fifth Meeting of the High Council Part Four: Naval Matters

The next day the most important part of the Hgh Council Meeting begins as Admiral Freyr's meeting on the future of the Imperial Trust's Naval Forces, both Trust and Planetary begins.

Admiral Freyr begins the meeting by telling the gathered dignitaries that the discovery of the datacores with STCs fir the Dark Age Fleet in The Sword of Sutur will allow for the Imperial Trust's fleets to grow rapidly over the next few decades, especially with the more advanced starship construction technologies that Archmagos Tranth has discovered. In light of this he would like to discuss exactly what each planet is planning to specialise in. He tells you that given the size difference that there will be between the planetary and Imperial Trust navies that it would be best if each planetary navy specialises in a single aspect of naval warfare and relies on the Imperial Trust to cover their weaknesses. The Imperial Trust Navy will be a balanced, fully independent force capable of operating by itself.

There are two other issues that Admiral Freyr brings up that need to be decided on, one urgent and one long term. First he would like to change the part of the constitution giving the Imperial Trust Navy an equivalent ship for every void ship built by a planetary navy. He would like to have more control over what classes of ships make up the Imperial Trust Navy and would like to work out some way for an equal value of ships to be made with the Imperial Trust Navy deciding on class and type.

Second he tells you that the Imperial Trust Navy will most likely grow to the point where the Imperial Trust can not easily afford to maintain it by the time that the last Command Battleship has been repaired. He would like the High Council to consider raising the trade levy or tithe in order to make up for this.

Just before Admiral Freyr finishes speaking he asks each of the Planarity Governors to stand and tell you what shipyard capacity they have, what shipyard capacity that plan to build up to and what size and speciality fleet they plan to build.

First Artisan Granalf, Governor Garp and King Zaren all tell you that they both have no shipyards, do not plan on building any and do not plan on building anything but a system defence fleet. Lord Marshal Sigurd tells you that he has a single Small Shipyard but is otherwise the same.

Governor Olaf of Vanaheim is as expected the first to speak about having both shipyards and a large fleet. He tells you that he currently has 1 Gargantuan Shipyard, 12 Large Shipyards and 13 Small Shipyards. He plans on building four Huge Shipyards, eight more Large Shipyards and twenty-seven more Small Shipyards. Vanaheim will build as large a navy as possible and will focus on fast skirmishing forces, most long ranged warships and carriers. They will have the Gungnir, a Genghis Class Command Battleship from the Dark Age of Technology as their command ship.

Next to stand is Governor-General Aelfric of Midgard. He tells you that Midgard currently has a single Large Shipyard and plans to eventually have 1 Huge Shipyard, 5 Large Shipyards and 10 Small Shipyards. He is not sure what form of fleet he want to specialise in but is planning on having a large fleet, though not nearly as large as Vanaheim's. He will most likely use the Alexander Class Command Battleship as a though he is not yet certain of this. Governor-General Aelfric will be accepting suggestions on what he should have his fleet specialise in.

The third Planetary Governor who plan on building a fleet is Champion Surt of Muspelheim. He tells you that work is currently under way on half a dozen Small Shipyards and that he plans to eventuality bring this number up to twenty and build a single large shipyard. He plans on building an entirely stealth based fleet, most likely using a Darkness Class Stealth Battleship as a flagship.

Much to your surprise when Governor Ulric of Niflheim stands to speak it is not to tell you that he is not planning on building any sort of fleet presence. He instead, a the subtle prompting o Champion Surt, tells you that he plans on building a single Small Shipyard and building a fleet of long range, stealthy scouts.

Now it is your time to talk about the future of Avernus' navy. You could also make proposals on the issue of Imperial Navy tithes and suggestions to what type of fleet Governor-General Aelfric should build.
 
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The third Planetary Governor who plan on building a fleet is Champion Surt of Muspelheim. He tells you that work is currently under way on half a dozen four Small Shipyard and that he plans to eventuality bring this number up to twenty and build a single large shipyard. He plans on building an entirely stealth based fleet, most likely using a Darkness Class Stealth Battleship as a flagship.
Uhm what?
 
...could we just say we want a boarding/tank fleet, and let durin handle the details? He knows the systems best, after all, and if Parnell can't build a fleet to that simple an order, something is very wrong.

Also, it worries me that people think we can't command non-Avernites. Is that true, or is Zaren just a bad judge of military stuff? Because with our martial, it confuses me that could be a thing.
 
1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1x Hero Class Battleship
1x Champion Class Battleship

2x Pope Class Grand Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Scots Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

2x Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Templar Class Heavy Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Marauder Class Battlecruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
2x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
2x Disciple Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Night Class Battlecruiser (Stealth)

8x Knight Class Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Cataphract Cruiser
4x Kshatriya Cruiser
4x Samurai Cruiser
8x Bishop Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Bolas Cruiser
6x Corsair Class Cruiser
2x Poacher Class Cruiser
2x Cossack Class Cruiser
2x Acolyte Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

10x Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10x Monk Class Escort Carrier
10x Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
10x Adherent Class Light Carrier
8x Fog Class Light Cruiser (Stealth)

70x Squire Class Frigate
40x Page Class Frigate
220x Soldier Class Destroyer
70x Legionnaire Class Destroyer
20x New Class Haywire Escorts
100x Privateer Class Raider
50x Descent Class Destroyer (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
30x Shadow Class Destroyer (Stealth)

1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship

2x Pope Class Grand Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Scots Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

2x Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Templar Class Heavy Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Marauder Class Battlecruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

8x Knight Class Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Cataphract Cruiser
4x Kshatriya Cruiser
4x Samurai Cruiser
8x Bishop Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Bolas Cruiser

10x Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10x Monk Class Escort Carrier

70x Squire Class Frigate
40x Page Class Frigate
120x Soldier Class Destroyer
70x Legionnaire Class Destroyer
20x New Class Haywire Escorts
50x Descent Class Destroyer (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

The note (Planetary Assault Auxiliary) means that when we have a Planetary Assault mission they are noted as being able to support the actual assault on the planet, either as a carrier, or through bombardment. But on other occasions could have weapons load outs to support the Brute Squad.

Against a general or long range harassment fleet the Brute Squad would advance on the planet forcing the enemy to come to grips with them, or abandon the planet. (Similar to what the Necrons did to us). Meanwhile the Sniper teams would guard the flanks.

Against a Brute force type fleet (or stationary defenses), the Brute Squad would screen the Sniper teams while they soften up the enemy, and then finish off the enemy afterwards.

2x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
2x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
2x Disciple Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

6 Corsair Class Cruiser
2 Poacher Class Cruiser
2 Cossack Class Cruiser
2 Acolyte Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

10 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
10 Adherent Class Light Carrier

100x Soldier Class Destroyer (consider replacing with a new class of fast basic destroyer?)
100x Privateer Class Raider

Note that during a fleet engagement these would likely be organized into two squads:

1x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
1x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
1x Disciple Class Carrier
3 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier
5 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
50x Soldier Class Destroyer
50x Privateer Class Raider

Against a standard fleet or a long range harassment fleet defending a planet, these teams would be guarding the flanks of the advancing Brute Squad, with the Spinal Grav Accelerators sniping capital ships, while the Nova Cannons target escort packs.

Against a short range Brute Force fleet (or stationary defenses) these teams would take up position behind a screening force of the Brute Squad and begin picking off the enemy ships/defenses.

1x Night Class Battlecruiser (Stealth)
8x Fog Class Light Cruiser (Stealth) (Would have to build, no hulks)
30x Shadow Class Destroyer (Stealth)

Purpose is to essentially provide a scouting group that could also participate as long range harassment during larger battles. Potentially flanking the enemy.
Annual Upkeep:
Exotics: 1,600 Exotic a year (about 32% of our current surplus).

@durin gave this assessment (both of the initial organization, and then with his comments on changes to this assessment after the revision to the fleet listed above):

0: Requires inventing new ships estimated 15-20 years of research
1. Has decent bombardment, good ability for landing of troops
-- a. After Revision: better bombardment
2. Very good against defences, good against monitors, decent against fleets
3. Will take less damage against fleets that you significantly outmatch, more against equal or superior fleets
4. Is best suited to defeat anyone you have at least equivalent numbers of and is not fast, weaker fleets,
5. Would have difficulty with anyone fast. They would slaughter the sniper squads, anyone with enough numbers would slaughter the sniper squads or force them to run rather then fight. Eldar, Necrons and some Nids and Orks, stronger fleets
-- a. After Revision: less vulnerable to speed and numbers
7. Best thing about this fleet plan: the long range weapons
9. Notable feature that should be incorporated into whatever plan we go with: the addition of a long ranged element to use against defences

I think this is the best combination to handle planetary assaults. It's primary focus is on blasting past planetary defenses and defense monitors, and then delivering good bombardment and good landing of troops (due to the high number of carriers). Additionally it can allow us to take low damage in these situations (primarily due to the new long range weapons).

It's less suited to fight actual fleets compared to some of the other plans put forward, but remains viable against slow fleets, or fleets that are equal or smaller than us. For those types of enemy fleets we will have to depend on either the Imperial Trust, or on another planetary navy that compliments ours.

I'm not sure if Vanaheim's fleet plan would be able to handle fast enemy fleets. @durin Would they? I'd guess they can handle large enemy fleets better, what about fast ones?

If not, I'd suggest to Midgard that they plan to have a fleet that can support planetary assaults and handle fast fleets. If possible to design such a fleet. (That would make Avernus and Midgard complimentary fleets focused on planetary assault).

May want to suggest later to Svartalfheim that escorting trade ships might be a good thing for Svarlafhiem especially... pointing out it only requires a Small shipyard and Light Cruisers.

Not feeling so good about the tithe increase...

@durin
1: Is Freyr more concerned about Exotic/Advanced Material, or about Promethium/Material, etc?

If he wants more Exotic Material we may need to focus more on actual increases in our Exotic Material production rather than just a tithe increase.
 
...could we just say we want a boarding/tank fleet, and let durin handle the details? He knows the systems best, after all, and if Parnell can't build a fleet to that simple an order, something is very wrong.

Also, it worries me that people think we can't command non-Avernites. Is that true, or is Zaren just a bad judge of military stuff? Because with our martial, it confuses me that could be a thing.

People have been working out the details with durin and we have gotten a lot of feedback.

My plan is posted, along with durin's assessment.

Here are the original assessments:
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 1528

I revised mine based on that (including adding escorts), and got this revised assessment:
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 1529

runes has revised his, but I haven't seen a reassessment from durin yet.

Portec I think is still working on his.

Basically runes is more focused on the armor, and does not add Spinal Grav Accelerators or Nova Cannons.

Portec added the new weapons that I had in his initial revision, looks to be working on a form that is a bit more heavy on generalists? Not sure, as he has posted a final revision yet.
 
Ok so we all are in agreement that what we want is a planetary assault type fleet right? What we need to decide is how that fleet does a planetary assault. Fast range, Lots of Armoured and Carriers, or what. Based on the update how big do we want our ship yard? I lean toward something like 2-3 Huge Shipyard, 10-15 Large Shipyards and 25-35 Small Shipyards especially if we can get a Huge Shipyard to only be able to fix/make Battleships at the cost of only doing that. Here's my plan again, I just need @durin 's say on straights and weaknesses for it. The only thing I may change is to whittle down the Fast contingent for Armoured or Cheap if he says I have too many for what I'm trying for.

1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship

1 Champion Class Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Legate Class Battleship

2 Pope Class Grand Carrier

2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
1 Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Templar Class Heavy Carrier

3 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
2 Disciple Class Carrier

15 Knight Class Cruiser
10 Cataphract Cruiser
10 Kshatriya Cruiser
5 Samurai Cruiser

4 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier

10 Warrior Class Cruiser
5 Hoplite Class Cruiser
10 Bishop Class Carrier
5 Praetorian Class Cruiser
7 Bolas Class Cruiser

30 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10 Monk Class Escort Carrier
15 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier

150 Squire Class Frigate
350 Soldier Class Destroyer
50 Page Class Frigate
75 Privateer Class Raider
50 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
25 Descent Class Destroyer

Stealth insertion unit
1 Night Class Battlecruiser
5 Fog Class Light Cruiser
10 Shadow Class Destroyer
 
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Yeah, but if it is a problem, we need it gone now. There is no way in the Warp that we'll always command Avernites, so being ready should help.

I think it's more that the rest of the Imperial Trust think the kind of training we'd propose would be insane for anyone other than Avernites. Not that we can't command non-Avernites.

"Okay, trainees! Today is your first lesson on close combat with Orks. First, here is a knife. Now, you get in this cage and we'll let you take a shot at this Nob here. We'll be grading you, so please do your best. Based on how well you do we will place you in the advanced or beginner class."
 
I think it's more that the rest of the Imperial Trust think the kind of training we'd propose would be insane for anyone other than Avernites. Not that we can't command non-Avernites.

"Okay, trainees! Today is your first lesson on close combat with Orks. First, here is a knife. Now, you get in this cage and we'll let you take a shot at this Nob here. We'll be grading you, so please do your best. Based on how well you do we will place you in the advanced or beginner class."
I don't think Rotbart is dumb enough to treat non Deathworlders like Deathworlders. That would be very strange. Though you do have a point that they might worry. Hm.
 
I'm not sure if we want to be designing new ship classes as of yet, given we have existing classes to repair in droves. And maybe this has been answered, but do any of the existing Battlecruiser classes have Nova Cannons and/or Spinal Grav weapons? It would seem to me like at least the former should be on some of the classes.
 
I lean toward something like 2-3 Huge Shipyard, 10-15 Large Shipyards and 25-35 Small Shipyards especially if we can get a Huge Shipyard to only be able to fix/make Battleships at the cost of only doing that.

I'd think I'd lean more towards 1 Huge Shipyard, 3 Large Shipyards, and 8 Small Shipyards

Anyway, heading to bed. I'll be back a few hours the voting starts, and I'll be voting for my fleet plan above, plus whatever other people's arguments convince me to take on the other items.
 
I'm not sure if we want to be designing new ship classes as of yet, given we have existing classes to repair in droves.

It's an additional cost, but it seems superior to the designs we do have. We could try to replace them with Hussur and Ulhan Battlecruisers until we design the new ones.

And maybe this has been answered, but do any of the existing Battlecruiser classes have Nova Cannons and/or Spinal Grav weapons? It would seem to me like at least the former should be on some of the classes.

Nope, none of them have it, I checked. If I recall correctly, only some of the Command Battleships had Nova Cannons (or Spinal Grav Accelerators).
 
1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1x Hero Class Battleship
1x Champion Class Battleship

2x Pope Class Grand Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Scots Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

2x Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Templar Class Heavy Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Marauder Class Battlecruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
2x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
2x Disciple Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Night Class Battlecruiser (Stealth)

8x Knight Class Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Cataphract Cruiser
4x Kshatriya Cruiser
4x Samurai Cruiser
8x Bishop Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Bolas Cruiser
6x Corsair Class Cruiser
2x Poacher Class Cruiser
2x Cossack Class Cruiser
2x Acolyte Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

10x Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10x Monk Class Escort Carrier
10x Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
10x Adherent Class Light Carrier
8x Fog Class Light Cruiser (Stealth)

70x Squire Class Frigate
40x Page Class Frigate
220x Soldier Class Destroyer
70x Legionnaire Class Destroyer
20x New Class Haywire Escorts
100x Privateer Class Raider
50x Descent Class Destroyer (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
30x Shadow Class Destroyer (Stealth)

1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship

2x Pope Class Grand Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
1x Scots Class Grand Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

2x Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Templar Class Heavy Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Marauder Class Battlecruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

8x Knight Class Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Cataphract Cruiser
4x Kshatriya Cruiser
4x Samurai Cruiser
8x Bishop Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Bolas Cruiser

10x Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10x Monk Class Escort Carrier

70x Squire Class Frigate
40x Page Class Frigate
120x Soldier Class Destroyer
70x Legionnaire Class Destroyer
20x New Class Haywire Escorts
50x Descent Class Destroyer (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

The note (Planetary Assault Auxiliary) means that when we have a Planetary Assault mission they are noted as being able to support the actual assault on the planet, either as a carrier, or through bombardment. But on other occasions could have weapons load outs to support the Brute Squad.

Against a general or long range harassment fleet the Brute Squad would advance on the planet forcing the enemy to come to grips with them, or abandon the planet. (Similar to what the Necrons did to us). Meanwhile the Sniper teams would guard the flanks.

Against a Brute force type fleet (or stationary defenses), the Brute Squad would screen the Sniper teams while they soften up the enemy, and then finish off the enemy afterwards.

2x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
2x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
2x Disciple Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

6 Corsair Class Cruiser
2 Poacher Class Cruiser
2 Cossack Class Cruiser
2 Acolyte Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)

10 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
10 Adherent Class Light Carrier

100x Soldier Class Destroyer (consider replacing with a new class of fast basic destroyer?)
100x Privateer Class Raider

Note that during a fleet engagement these would likely be organized into two squads:

1x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
1x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
1x Disciple Class Carrier
3 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier
5 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
50x Soldier Class Destroyer
50x Privateer Class Raider

Against a standard fleet or a long range harassment fleet defending a planet, these teams would be guarding the flanks of the advancing Brute Squad, with the Spinal Grav Accelerators sniping capital ships, while the Nova Cannons target escort packs.

Against a short range Brute Force fleet (or stationary defenses) these teams would take up position behind a screening force of the Brute Squad and begin picking off the enemy ships/defenses.

1x Night Class Battlecruiser (Stealth)
8x Fog Class Light Cruiser (Stealth) (Would have to build, no hulks)
30x Shadow Class Destroyer (Stealth)

Purpose is to essentially provide a scouting group that could also participate as long range harassment during larger battles. Potentially flanking the enemy.
Annual Upkeep:
Exotics: 1,600 Exotic a year (about 32% of our current surplus).

@durin gave this assessment (both of the initial organization, and then with his comments on changes to this assessment after the revision to the fleet listed above):

0: Requires inventing new ships estimated 15-20 years of research
1. Has decent bombardment, good ability for landing of troops
-- a. After Revision: better bombardment
2. Very good against defences, good against monitors, decent against fleets
3. Will take less damage against fleets that you significantly outmatch, more against equal or superior fleets
4. Is best suited to defeat anyone you have at least equivalent numbers of and is not fast, weaker fleets,
5. Would have difficulty with anyone fast. They would slaughter the sniper squads, anyone with enough numbers would slaughter the sniper squads or force them to run rather then fight. Eldar, Necrons and some Nids and Orks, stronger fleets
-- a. After Revision: less vulnerable to speed and numbers
7. Best thing about this fleet plan: the long range weapons
9. Notable feature that should be incorporated into whatever plan we go with: the addition of a long ranged element to use against defences

I think this is the best combination to handle planetary assaults. It's primary focus is on blasting past planetary defenses and defense monitors, and then delivering good bombardment and good landing of troops (due to the high number of carriers). Additionally it can allow us to take low damage in these situations (primarily due to the new long range weapons).

It's less suited to fight actual fleets compared to some of the other plans put forward, but remains viable against slow fleets, or fleets that are equal or smaller than us. For those types of enemy fleets we will have to depend on either the Imperial Trust, or on another planetary navy that compliments ours.

I'm not sure if Vanaheim's fleet plan would be able to handle fast enemy fleets. @durin Would they? I'd guess they can handle large enemy fleets better, what about fast ones?

If not, I'd suggest to Midgard that they plan to have a fleet that can support planetary assaults and handle fast fleets. If possible to design such a fleet. (That would make Avernus and Midgard complimentary fleets focused on planetary assault).

May want to suggest later to Svartalfheim that escorting trade ships might be a good thing for Svarlafhiem especially... pointing out it only requires a Small shipyard and Light Cruisers.

Not feeling so good about the tithe increase...

@durin
1: Is Freyr more concerned about Exotic/Advanced Material, or about Promethium/Material, etc?

If he wants more Exotic Material we may need to focus more on actual increases in our Exotic Material production rather than just a tithe increase.
EM and AM
Vanaheim can handle most fast fleets but will struggle against Eldar and Necrons,
 
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I don't think Rotbart is dumb enough to treat non Deathworlders like Deathworlders. That would be very strange. Though you do have a point that they might worry. Hm.
It's not just the intensity of training, it's the entire military doctrine that's the problem. @durin said that Avernite military model relies heavily on Avernus' unique combination of high education and death world social norms.

Edit: in that case we need to reform the Mechanicus ASAP...damn.
 
If not, I'd suggest to Midgard that they plan to have a fleet that can support planetary assaults and handle fast fleets. If possible to design such a fleet. (That would make Avernus and Midgard complimentary fleets focused on planetary assault).

This would actually be an interesting challenge. Can anyone design a fleet that would be good at both planetary assault and handle a fast fleet?

Maybe... Carrier based?

@fasquardon This seems like it might be in your wheelhouse.

Current Available classes:
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 1428
 
Yeah, but if it is a problem, we need it gone now. There is no way in the Warp that we'll always command Avernites, so being ready should help.
you need to command a battle of non-Avernites and not have them die in massive numbers like they did on Fjol IV when you kept sending them Stygian the Dark Elves in their own territory without support
 
EM and AM
Vanaheim can handle most fast fleets but will struggle against Eldar and Necrons,

Hmm... that makes me worry about the tithe. There's only so much to go around, that's the key here, not the distribution of it.

Also, that suggests that Vanaheim can team up with us to handle fast fleets, so that's good.

@durin In broad strokes, what kind of fleets would fair best against:

1: Necrons?

2: Eldar?
 
Nope, none of them have it, I checked. If I recall correctly, only some of the Command Battleships had Nova Cannons (or Spinal Grav Accelerators).

That seems extremely odd. I'd think at least one of the Battleships would have Nova Cannons, or perhaps the Grand Cruisers. I mean, why would the DAoT people have these weapons but not use them? @durin - care to share any insight on this?


Also, not sure we should propose a fleet, so much as give the ideas of ones we have to Freyr and get his thoughts. Hell, we might ask him if he has his own idea for what our fleet should look like.

you need to command a battle of non-Avernites and not have them die in massive numbers like they did on Fjol IV when you kept sending them Stygian the Dark Elves in their own territory without support

Durin, I've noticed this lately, but your autocorrect seems to be on drugs.
 
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Ok so we all are in agreement that what we want is a planetary assault type fleet right? What we need to decide is how that fleet does a planetary assault. Fast range, Lots of Armoured and Carriers, or what. Based on the update how big do we want our ship yard? I lean toward something like 2-3 Huge Shipyard, 10-15 Large Shipyards and 25-35 Small Shipyards especially if we can get a Huge Shipyard to only be able to fix/make Battleships at the cost of only doing that. Here's my plan again, I just need @durin 's say on straights and weaknesses for it. The only thing I may change is to whittle down the Fast contingent for Armoured or Cheap if he says I have too many for what I'm trying for.

1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship

1 Champion Class Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Legate Class Battleship

2 Pope Class Grand Carrier

2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
1 Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Templar Class Heavy Carrier

2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
1 Disciple Class Carrier
1 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
1 Husser Class Battlecruiser

15 Knight Class Cruiser
10 Cataphract Cruiser
10 Kshatriya Cruiser
5 Samurai Cruiser

2 Corsair Class Cruiser
2 Poacher Class Cruiser
2 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier

10 Warrior Class Cruiser
5 Hoplite Class Cruiser
10 Bishop Class Carrier
5 Praetorian Class Cruiser
7 Bolas Class Cruiser

30 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10 Monk Class Escort Carrier
15 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier

150 Squire Class Frigate
350 Soldier Class Destroyer
50 Page Class Frigate
75 Privateer Class Raider
50 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
10 Descent Class Destroyer

Stealth insertion unit
1 Night Class Battlecruiser
5 Fog Class Light Cruiser
10 Shadow Class Destroyer
comments on your plan
1,850 EM
I would prefer one of the Poachers and one of the Cossaks with another two Corsairs, you want anti-harassment more then harassment, on the same nonte I would be tempted to replace the Uhlan and Husser with more Marauders
also if you were adding anything adding a group of Descent Class Destroyers would be best
 
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Okay, there are two ways we can do things.

We either build a System Siege Fleet and convince Midgard to build a Planetary Conquest Fleet, or We have Midgard build something like a breakthrough fleet and we sacrifice some of our Siege fleet's ability to destroy a systems defences for landing capability.
 
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