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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
Reader mode
aledeth said:
Are you including outliers like Eldar/Dark Eldar in the "faster enemy fleets" category?
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Nope.


aledeth said:
In response to your colonization proposals, if a planet can have an effectively infinite number of colonies and has complete rights over the population, what stops the planet from implementing a law that migrates people off world to keep the population below 1/2 Billion?
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Why is this a problem? It's likely to be desirable as well. Other wise resource colonies would likely become overcrowded and undesirable places to live. Migrating people to new worlds would allow for spreading out the population and preventing the development of slums.

I really don't get the assumption being made that somehow resource colonies are going to be oppressed populations.

The whole point of resource colonies was to have colonies that will never become independent because they are not viable.

If they are viable then they ought to be full colonies from the beginning.

Why are we wasting time with creating resource colony rules if they are just going to be junior league full colonies? Just ban resource colonies entirely if you think they are a bad thing.

All these rules people are proposing makes resource colonies very inefficient. I really don't get it.

aledeth said:
Either way, the infinite colony system feels like it favors high population worlds over lower population ones, which could lead to power bloc imbalances if these colonies maintain loyalty to their founder when they join the Council fully.
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Midgard will almost certainly be providing most of the colonists for all of the Imperial Trust. There is no getting around that.

Also, resource colonies will not be joining the Council. That's the whole point of resource colonies.
 
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durin said:
1. Seems to be a surprisingly speed oriented fleet for planetary assault, the fact that 2 out of three battleships and half the cruisers are fast will leave your fleet rather vulnerable to anyone as fast as it. Remember that the faster ships are more lightly armored. Admiral Parnells advice is to replace one of the fast battleships with a force of armored cruisers. Also Grand Cruisers, Battlecruisers and Heavy Cruisers are very useful and should not be ignored.
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And here the composition. Because of the lengthly post in Spoiler.

In short it only has 2 BS but in return 4 Grand Cruiser, 6 HC and 10 BC more as well as more cruiser in general and now over 700 Escorts.
Einherjar Class Command Battleship (medium speed, very heavy armor, short range)
25x Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
5x Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
20x Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)

100x Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
100x Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
90x Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
400x Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)

And here the composition. Because of the lengthly post in Spoiler.
The number of Cruiser per BS should be between 8 and 24. I have used 16.
The number of Escorts per Cruiser should be between 4 and 12. I have used 8.
The upkeep of the two BS is roughly as high as all the Cruiser (without Grand Cruiser) or Escorts. CBS + 2 BS + 4 GC still makes ~60%.

I. Centered around Einherjar Class Command Battleship (medium speed, very heavy armor, short range).
I am against relying on on the companies of the other BS to defend the Einherjar. For that reason I decided to place a 50% (16*1,5=24) greater number of cruiser at its direct support and defence than the BS have. Because they have to relay on the other ships to fight at long range there are no carrier in this group.
1. 2 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
2. 2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, short range)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
3. 12 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (12*8) 96 Escort among them
a. 48 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 12 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 12 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
d. 24 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
4. 8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser, medium speed, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
b. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
c. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

II. Hero Class Battleship (medium speed, powerful lances and super lances)
The Hero and its group are direct support for the Einherjar.
1. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
2. 8 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (8*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 16 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
3. 8 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

III. Mongol Class Fast Battleship (fast speed, long raged powerful lances, including two superlances)
The group to fight at long ranges and react fast. Can use medium speed escorts as they are fast enough to keep up with fast BS and Battlecruiser.
1. 4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*2*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
2. 4 Poacher Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
3. 4 Corsair Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

IV. 2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, lances)
This is the first part of the cruiser force. Two GC add up to roughly one BS
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

V. 2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
This is the second part of the cruiser force.
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​


Mongol and his group is fast and projects enormus amounts of long range firepower with their large number (64) of torpedo escorts, super-lances, long range lances and batteries. It may not be the beefiest group but it mobility protects the slower parts of the fleet.

Oponents closing in will find the Einherjar smashing them in close range while the Hero will keep the pressure in any range. That leaves oponents either out ranged and out manovered by the fast ships (defences simply outranged and impotent to do anything) or what can get through the long range fire in a slugfest with ships better at it.

The large number of cruiser grouped around the Grand Cruiser gives weight to the fleet.

This fleet uses:
28 of 25 Warrior Class Cruiser
6 of 5 Praetorian Class Cruiser
20 of 20 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser)
76 of 100 Squire Class Frigate
76 of 100 Page Class Frigate
88 of 90 Legionnaire Class Destroyers
376 0f 400 Soldier Class Destroyer

It needs the following ships:
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Mongol Class Fast Battleship
2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
4 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
6 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
3 Warrior Class Cruiser
1 Praetorian Class Cruiser
4 Poacher Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
4 Corsair Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser)
64 Privateer Class Raider (fast escort)
24 Descent Class Destroyer (specialist: atmospheric flight)

And some more numbers about how expensive this fleet will be. Spoiler because numbers:
Complete fleet numbers:
1 CBS
2 BS
4 GC
6 HC
10 BC
42 Cruiser
28 LC
704 Escorts

Because upkeep is the hard part here are the expected cost for that:
400,649,600 Thrones
57,040,000 Material
54,271,840 Prometium
165.910 AM
1708.4 EM

540 EM of that is the CBS alone with 392 EM belonging to the two BS and 4 GC. These 7 ships make u 60% of the entire EM cost.

Now we are not done yet!

Our shipyards reduce the amount of upkeep in EM and AM we need to pay and with the upgrade this number increases by 1/3:
small: 940 to 1253 AM and 9 to 12 EM
large: 3700 to 4933 AM and 35 to 46.7 EM
huge: 14200 to 18933 AM and 130 to 173.3 EM
gargantuan: 51400 to 68533 AM and 430 to 573.3 EM

That means that by having the gargantuan shipyard (that we still want) we cut of 1/3 of the Em and AM cost. To not strain our economy of AM and EM we need one G and 116 small ones. More realistically would be 1 G, 2 H, 4 L and 50 small ones. Than we would only need to pay for the defences in EM (who are a lot cheaper).
Through I don't know how the administration cost reduce will factor in (in this exemplar it is not).
1. Any insights you want to share?
2. This is a fleet with 100 capital ships and 700 Escorts. It is not a planetary fleet any longer but where does it rank?
3. What are the ranks (Imperium standart)? Planetary, System, Sub-Sector, Sector, etc?
 
[X] Elder Haman

I like to operate on the KISS principle, and overly complex plans often have multiple points of failure/weaknesses/loopholes.
 
Portec said:
And here the composition. Because of the lengthly post in Spoiler.

In short it only has 2 BS but in return 4 Grand Cruiser, 6 HC and 10 BC more as well as more cruiser in general and now over 700 Escorts.
Einherjar Class Command Battleship (medium speed, very heavy armor, short range)
25x Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
5x Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
20x Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)

100x Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
100x Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
90x Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
400x Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)

And here the composition. Because of the lengthly post in Spoiler.
The number of Cruiser per BS should be between 8 and 24. I have used 16.
The number of Escorts per Cruiser should be between 4 and 12. I have used 8.
The upkeep of the two BS is roughly as high as all the Cruiser (without Grand Cruiser) or Escorts. CBS + 2 BS + 4 GC still makes ~60%.

I. Centered around Einherjar Class Command Battleship (medium speed, very heavy armor, short range).
I am against relying on on the companies of the other BS to defend the Einherjar. For that reason I decided to place a 50% (16*1,5=24) greater number of cruiser at its direct support and defence than the BS have. Because they have to relay on the other ships to fight at long range there are no carrier in this group.
1. 2 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
2. 2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, short range)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
3. 12 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (12*8) 96 Escort among them
a. 48 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 12 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 12 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
d. 24 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
4. 8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser, medium speed, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
b. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
c. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

II. Hero Class Battleship (medium speed, powerful lances and super lances)
The Hero and its group are direct support for the Einherjar.
1. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
2. 8 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (8*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 16 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
3. 8 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

III. Mongol Class Fast Battleship (fast speed, long raged powerful lances, including two superlances)
The group to fight at long ranges and react fast. Can use medium speed escorts as they are fast enough to keep up with fast BS and Battlecruiser.
1. 4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*2*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
2. 4 Poacher Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
3. 4 Corsair Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

IV. 2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, lances)
This is the first part of the cruiser force. Two GC add up to roughly one BS
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​

V. 2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
This is the second part of the cruiser force.
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)​
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)​
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)​


Mongol and his group is fast and projects enormus amounts of long range firepower with their large number (64) of torpedo escorts, super-lances, long range lances and batteries. It may not be the beefiest group but it mobility protects the slower parts of the fleet.

Oponents closing in will find the Einherjar smashing them in close range while the Hero will keep the pressure in any range. That leaves oponents either out ranged and out manovered by the fast ships (defences simply outranged and impotent to do anything) or what can get through the long range fire in a slugfest with ships better at it.

The large number of cruiser grouped around the Grand Cruiser gives weight to the fleet.

This fleet uses:
28 of 25 Warrior Class Cruiser
6 of 5 Praetorian Class Cruiser
20 of 20 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser)
76 of 100 Squire Class Frigate
76 of 100 Page Class Frigate
88 of 90 Legionnaire Class Destroyers
376 0f 400 Soldier Class Destroyer

It needs the following ships:
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Mongol Class Fast Battleship
2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
4 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
6 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
3 Warrior Class Cruiser
1 Praetorian Class Cruiser
4 Poacher Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
4 Corsair Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser)
64 Privateer Class Raider (fast escort)
24 Descent Class Destroyer (specialist: atmospheric flight)

And some more numbers about how expensive this fleet will be. Spoiler because numbers:
Complete fleet numbers:
1 CBS
2 BS
4 GC
6 HC
10 BC
42 Cruiser
28 LC
704 Escorts

Because upkeep is the hard part here are the expected cost for that:
400,649,600 Thrones
57,040,000 Material
54,271,840 Prometium
165.910 AM
1708.4 EM

540 EM of that is the CBS alone with 392 EM belonging to the two BS and 4 GC. These 7 ships make u 60% of the entire EM cost.

Now we are not done yet!

Our shipyards reduce the amount of upkeep in EM and AM we need to pay and with the upgrade this number increases by 1/3:
small: 940 to 1253 AM and 9 to 12 EM
large: 3700 to 4933 AM and 35 to 46.7 EM
huge: 14200 to 18933 AM and 130 to 173.3 EM
gargantuan: 51400 to 68533 AM and 430 to 573.3 EM

That means that by having the gargantuan shipyard (that we still want) we cut of 1/3 of the Em and AM cost. To not strain our economy of AM and EM we need one G and 116 small ones. More realistically would be 1 G, 2 H, 4 L and 50 small ones. Than we would only need to pay for the defences in EM (who are a lot cheaper).
Through I don't know how the administration cost reduce will factor in (in this exemplar it is not).
1. Any insights you want to share?
2. This is a fleet with 100 capital ships and 700 Escorts. It is not a planetary fleet any longer but where does it rank?
3. What are the ranks (Imperium standart)? Planetary, System, Sub-Sector, Sector, etc?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1. Are you sure you want a gargantuan, with the new tech it requires 3x your total thrones production, 1.5x your total Material prodction, a thirdyour total metal production and twice your total promethium production
2. Large Sub-Sector or small sector
3 Yes
 
durin said:
24 hours left to vote
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Vote Tally : Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 1520 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.7

[X] Resource Colony Independence:
[X] Resource Colony Defenses: Support Governor Olaf's proposal
[X] Resource Colony STC Restrictions: Support Britton's suggestion, with the addition of a clause that the High Council can wave the restrictions if given sufficient justification.
[X] Compromise Numbers Proposal
No. of Votes: 16
Elder Haman
aledeth
AvidFicReader
Darkcrest
DragonParadox
Fanhunter696
godofsmallthings
HanEmpire
Jexx
Nikandros
oilworker
Piren'e Colass
Praetor98
Reynal
Ruirk
Shard

[X] Unified Independence Proposal
[X] Support Governor Olaf's Proposal for Defences
[X] Support Fabricator-General Britton's Proposal for Technology Restrictions
[X] Compromise Numbers Proposal
No. of Votes: 3
Enjou
Dark as Silver
Derek58

Total No. of Voters: 19
 
Simplicity is good.

[X] Resource Colony Independence:
[X] Resource Colony Defenses: Support Governor Olaf's proposal
[X] Resource Colony STC Restrictions: Support Britton's suggestion, with the addition of a clause that the High Council can wave the restrictions if given sufficient justification.
[X] Compromise Numbers Proposal
 
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The Fifth Meeting of the High Council Part Two: Resource Colony Decisions
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    • The Fifth Meeting of the High Council Part Two: Resource Colony Decisions


    After much argument you manage to get the High Council to reach a consensus on the issue of resource colonies. You manage to convince Champion Surt and Governor Garp to back a modified version of Governor Olaf's proposal that forces the coloniser to spend a fifth of the resources of the colony on the colony and gives the resource colony or a member of the Low Council the right to petition the High Council for independence if they can provide a good enough reason.

    You supported Governor Olaf and Fabricator-General Britton's suggestions for defences and restrictions respectively and proposed a slightly altered version of Admiral Freyr's suggestion which allowed the security council to require that a planet with multiple Resource Colonies increase the level of defences that they have.
    3.i. Uninhabited and unclaimed systems are considered to be the property of the nearest Low Council Member. The owner must give permission for any colonies or resource colonies to be in a system.
    3.iii.a. A planet have as many Resource Colonies as it wants so long as it is within ten light years of a member of the low council.
    3.iii.b. The Security Council may impose a higher level of defences on Resource Colonies after the first as they determine is necessary based on the Imperial Trust's security situation.


    5.i.a. The coloniser shall have exactly the same rights over the Resource Colony as it has over its own world, making the Resource Colony an extension of the coloniser, except where noted below.
    5.i.b. Any of the requirements below can be waved for a Resource Colony with a two third majority vote of the High Council.
    5.ii.a. A Resource Colony must be under half a billion humans in order to count as a resource colony and if it exceeds that number then it becomes a full colony with the year of founding being the year in which it exceeded the population maximum
    5.ii.b. The residents of a Resource Colony, or any member of the Low Council, may petition the High Council for the Resource Colony to become a full colony, presenting arguments as to why the colony provides something of value to the Imperial Trust as a whole to justify the change in status. This motion must pass with a two thirds majority.
    5.iii. At least a fifth of the income of a Resource Colony must be spent on the colony
    5.iv. Resource Colonies must have a minimum level of defences, with defence levels increasing as the Resource Colonies production increases.
    5.iv.a. Each Resource Colony is required to have at least medium level ground and orbital defences.
    5.iv.b. For every three billion Thrones worth of production that a Resource Colony has, at average Imperial Trust prices, the required level of ground and orbital defences must be increased by one level.
    5.iv.c. Each Resource Colony is required to have at least one Defence Cruiser and five Defence Monitors.
    5.iv.d. For every three billion Thrones worth of production that a Resource Colony has, at average Imperial Trust prices, one Defence Cruiser and five Defence Monitors must bee added to the defence fleet.
    5.v. The STCs and industrial capabilities of a Resource Colony will be restricted.
    5.v.a. A Resource Colony shall not be given any Advanced or Exotic Material STCs above the basic, any military STCs other then those required to produce the more basic weapons or any Naval STCs
    5.v.b. A Resource Colony shall not be given any STCs that it does not have a clear and immediate requirement for.
    5.v.c. A Resource Colony shall not have any shipbuilding capabilities.
    5.v.d. A Resource Colony shall not have more then 50% more manufacturing capacity then is needed for upkeep.

    Once the decision on resource colonies was finalised the High Council Meeting was ended for the day. Tomorrow the discussion on the Imperial Trust and Planetary Navy's will begin but you will have the opportunity to set up a single meeting beforehand.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • durin said:
    1. Are you sure you want a gargantuan, with the new tech it requires 3x your total thrones production, 1.5x your total Material prodction, a thirdyour total metal production and twice your total promethium production
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    1. I find it nice that you have nothing worriesome to say about the fleet composition. Something good instead?
    2. Yes the Gargantuan is expansive but some time back it was stated that we need one to repair the Well of Urd. Now Vanaheim can do it probaly. If an huge one with the new technologies can repair it it is alright to stop there as well, as we need the ability to repair our ships.
    So no, I don't want an gargantuan shipyard. But we need it to repair our ships so sadly we need it. That is at least the information I work with...
     
    Portec said:
    1. I find it nice that you have nothing worriesome to say about the fleet composition. Something good instead?
    2. Yes the Gargantuan is expansive but some time back it was stated that we need one to repair the Well of Urd. Now Vanaheim can do it probaly. If an huge one with the new technologies can repair it it is alright to stop there as well, as we need the ability to repair our ships.
    So no, I don't want an gargantuan shipyard. But we need it to repair our ships so sadly we need it. That is at least the information I work with...
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    1. The fleet composition that you made seems to be good
    2. It would be far better the have The Well of Urd repaired at Vanaheim then bankrupt yourself trying to keep a gargantuan shipyard operating, which is what would most likely happen, that is not mentioning the sheer time and effot that it would take getting one.
     
    Sorry but I was busy with work the last few days. Now let me address your concerns.
    Elder Haman said:
    It's not about a lack of long range, it's about a lack of speed. Your ships are almost all slow until you get to the Light Cruisers. Your fleet will be flanked.
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    One in six or so of my build is fast ships so I'm not sure what your arguing here. I have 4 BC'S, 7 Fast Cruisers, and 20 Light Cruisers as the core of my scrimmager fleet. It's not suppose to kill fleets on it's own but has enough heavier ships to threaten any flanking force or speedy force to make them stay in one fleet and not scatter into a bunch of smaller fleets to harass our slower ships from multiple points that run if they try to catch them while the others pick us apart.

    Elder Haman said:
    Assuming equal numbers, against a generalist fleet fighting with a normal line you will win, but with heavy losses. Against a long range fast fleet (like Vanaheim) your fleet will be massacred.
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    I'm beginning to think you're biased against ships that count on Armour on principle with how much you're empathizing speed and range. Vanaheim, as you said, already has the long range fleet. We are building one to break the teeth of a heavy orbital defenses and whatever mobile defenders happens to be there as well. Against both fleets you just mentioned I think you using the worst case scenario for the out come. In the first the scrimmager fleet units would flank the battle line as hunter killer escort packs pick off units at will. Then the heavy fleet would break the opposing fleet as it crashed right up the middle having the armor to take it where the enemy doesn't. In the second scenario how would it be a massacre? Range has nothing to do with speed other than how fast you can close to weapons range. When that fleet is in range to fire at us we are in range to return fire with our own long ranged units. The only thing that they could do is run faster than we can catch them and even then the scrimmager fleet units job would be not to destroy them on their lonesome but to hit propulsion units or box them in long enough for the slower ships to catch up and hit them.


    Elder Haman said:
    No. I'm not. Notice that in my fleet all the largest ships are part of the brute squad which is built around CBS and BS while the sniper teams are built around BC.

    I'm building a fleet that combines two specialties to become stronger than the sum of it's parts. Just like combined arms. Just like a D&D party that is balanced instead of them all being slow and tankish. The brute force allows the smashing of any enemy lines, while the sniper teams prevent us from being flanked by faster enemy fleets. Against slower enemy fleets, then we'd switch to having the long range fleet pick off the enemy while the brute force protects the snipers from being attacked.
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    Part of the problem is how you call it the sniper team which heavily implies that it's a long range component to the short range bricks and nothing about speed. I also have a combined arms type build but it's forced on supporting the heavy armored core of the fleet were as you seem to have it focused on the other side of the equation more heavily. Yours has a much stronger fast unit but weakens the brute force to the point that I don't think that it could do the job you want it to do. Your fleet reads as being two separate fleets, neither of which look strong enough to do the job, rather than a fleet of X type with support units type Y.
     
    durin said:
    2. It would be far better the have The Well of Urd repaired at Vanaheim then bankrupt yourself trying to keep a gargantuan shipyard operating, which is what would most likely happen, that is not mentioning the sheer time and effort that it would take getting one.
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    Hah, Vindication!

    Hated the idea of spending 8.2 billion thrones a year to be able to service less than 200 hulks that could already be repaired at vanaheim.
     
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    Just a note on fleet composition.

    We absurdly out-tech most Imperial remnants--especially if you figure that a lot of the are going to be pressed for repairs and the like--as well as the Orcs and Nids. Most of the real danger to our fleet comes in dealing with Eldar and Necron forces in my mind, as we can mitigate issues with exact type match ups with superior gear on the other threats. According to Durin, we can count on being flanked by the Eldar and Necrons regardless of how we build our fleet, and the best type of ship for handling that is a long-range brick--that even our fast ship types would either be too slow to avoid flanks or would get mulched in trying to respond.

    Obviously we don't want to build our entire fleet around that idea, but I did want to mention that having a composition that can survive getting flanked is at least as important as one that has the speed to counter being flanked in most circumstances.
     
    Can we tell if their main threat relative to where they were at the fall is numbers-based or if they've made significant advances in their individual stats? Cause I was more thinking that with our tech upgrades our normal ships could act in the role of fast ships against them pre-fall.
     
    Reynal said:
    Can we tell if their main threat relative to where they were at the fall is numbers-based or if they've made significant advances in their individual stats? Cause I was more thinking that with our tech upgrades our normal ships could act in the role of fast ships against them pre-fall.
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    they were similar to they used to be when Garkill invaded, but that was over a hundred years ago for him
     
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