The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
[X] Support the compromise position put forward by Governor-General Aelfric
-[X] Point out that each proposal is built around the historical experiences of the various systems about what worked best for them. Each approach is valid, but here we are only setting the minimum requirements. It's quite probable that many colonizers will improve their colony's defenses beyond this minimum. Let us pick the compromise position, and then each colonizer can extend those defenses in whichever way they think best.
 
[X] Support the compromise position put forward by Governor-General Aelfric
-[X] Point out that each proposal is built around the historical experiences of the various systems about what worked best for them. Each approach is valid, but here we are only setting the minimum requirements. It's quite probable that many colonizers will improve their colony's defenses beyond this minimum. Let us pick the compromise position, and then each colonizer can extend those defenses in whichever way they think best.

[X] Support Champion Surt
 
Ok, I have alternative proposals. They may be adjusted further depending on what level of support that @durin says they have to get them into a state where they could pass.

[X] Defences: Strengthened Compromise Plan

- Use Governor-General Aelfric's plan as a basis, using the requirements for ground and orbital defences as well as PDF numbers.
-- The PDF number requirement is altered to account for the minimum 1% constitutional requirement. The number of regiments must be the greater of the base requirement and the 1% requirement.
- A colony must have at least ten Defence Monitors and a Helheim Pattern Defence Cruiser when founded, with another ten Defence Monitors and a Helheim Pattern Defence Cruiser every forty years.
- Add a militia requirement. Within 35 years of founding the colony must establish a civilian militia composed of at least 50% of the adult civilian population. The must receive a minimum of four hours of weekly training and the colony must maintain enough Impaler Carbines and body armor to equip all of them.

Arguments:
1. First, it should be noted that these are minimums. Given the level of economic power in the Imperial Trust, it is likely that many colonies will be equipped above the minimum level to start with. A colonizer wishing to go beyond the minimums should easily be able to do so, and can do so according to their preferred military methodologies.
2. It is essential to have some defence vessels stationed in a colonized system to start with, as piracy is likely to become a problem eventually. Orbital defences have no reach beyond the planet they are orbiting, so will not be able to counter commerce raiding.
3. Adding a militia ensures that each world has a very large additional force to call upon in emergencies, ensuring they are better able to hunker down in the event of larger invasions that require them to wait for reinforcements, and that an enemy attempting to take a city will experience far more resistance than they would expect. It also provides a pool of recruits for PDF expansions that have additional experience.
4. The constitutional minimum of 1% of the population needing to be PDF should be enforced, especially considering that colonial populations are likely to grow quickly with all the healthcare STCs available. Point to Avernus's rapid population growth as an example, and then point out that most colonies won't be Death Worlds on top of that.

[X] Middle Ground Protections

- Each colony shall be required to give no more than half of its tax income to the colonizer, a number that cannot exceed twelve and a half percent of its total income.
- Within a decade of the colony forming it shall have a local government made up entirely of people living on the colony. -After fifty years, 50% of the local government officials must be native born or have 25 years of residency. After seventy-five years 66% of the local government officials must be native born or have 35 years of residency. After one hundred years 75% of the local government officials must be native born or have 50 years of residency, and the colonial government will be subject to an Inquisitorial audit to ensure that the colonizer has not attempted to set up a puppet government.
- The local government should have the right to present petitions to the High Council and that the High Council shall have the right to intervene in any colony with a two thirds vote.

Arguments:
1. The preferences regarding the taxation numbers is split evenly. Meeting in the middle seems sensible.
2. Allowing for a residency length requirement prevents competent, experienced officials from being released from their duties to fill a quota of local births that is somewhat arbitrary. But in order to meet the spirit of the original proposals, an Inquisitorial audit should be performed to ensure that the spirit of the law is being followed in good faith - it is after all one of the intended functions of the Inquisition to root out corruption.
3. On the subject of the High Council interfering in a colony, point out that it will be a significant action, and should only take place under egregious circumstances. To minimize hostility from the colonizer, it would be better to require a significant portion of the Imperial Trust to take such a controversial step. Lesser issues can likely be resolved through discussion and politicking without the need for intervention.

EDIT - Worked out a new version where residency can allow one to maintain a position, but the Inquisitorial audit will ensure no shenanigans are going on.

Propose two additional protections to be voted on:

[X] Additional Protection 1: After fifty years, at least 75% of the PDF being recruited from that point should be from the local population.

Argument: This will prevent military domination by the colonizer as the colony grows closer to independence by them simply importing troops to fulfill the military requirements.

[X] Additional Protection 2: After twenty years, a basic level of universal education must be available to the population. At fifty years, some level of higher education must be made available. The Low Council will spend some time over the next ten years working with the educational institutions of the Imperial Trust to establish a few proposals for the minimum curriculum, which will be voted upon by the High Council in ten years.

Arguments:
1. Maintaining ignorance in a population is a common tool of oppression, and thus a path that encourages corruption by the Abomination. By ensuring that education is established early, we ensure that colonies do not fall into the habits of the old Imperium and prevent such corruption.
2. Ensuring a level education also means the colonies will be more productive in general, which is beneficial to both the colonizer and the colony.
 
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Even the US constitution restricts only the office of the president to natural born citizens and has an exception for citizens at the time of its adaption. The idea that being born somewhere is a necessary requirement for being loyal is absurd.
The exact wording is:

Article II Section 1 Clause 5:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I think the constitution of the US is, in this case, an excellent example.

I think it would be far better than Surt and Olaf's proposals.

fasquardon
 
they are nearly a hundred years old, that is not children, they are not teenagers and comparing them to teenagers is insulting and shortsighterd
hell you were not a hundred when Avernus was founded and Drago was the only one of your advisers to be over a hundred

Insulting? Yes. Shortsighted? Maybe. But mostly a case of a rather underhanded social attack for the purpose of getting support for a political idea he likes. Overlooking the inconvenient truths Enjou showed well, of course, but its a human fault. Only the Emperor is perfect.

[X] Enjou

After all, if there is absolutely critical off-world personell needed in key positions - is it reasonable to expect those numbers to be more than a third after a century? The actual numbers probably far less, but this gives leeway. Not to mention that this is really not something to expend massive political capital on. If someone's life is as a public servant... well. They will know the rules before they decide whether to stay or go. With half a century of forewarning, and the option of simply not going to the new colony, this should not be a problem.
 
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Current tally.

Vote Tally : Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 1411 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.9

[X] Support the compromise position put forward by Governor-General Aelfric
-[X] Point out that each proposal is built around the historical experiences of the various systems about what worked best for them. Each approach is valid, but here we are only setting the minimum requirements. It's quite probable that many colonizers will improve their colony's defenses beyond this minimum. Let us pick the compromise position, and then each colonizer can extend those defenses in whichever way they think best.
[X] Propose that each colony shall be required to give no more than half of its tax income to the colonizer, a number that cannot exceed ten percent of its total income. Propose that within a decade of the colony forming it shall have a local government made up entirely of people living on the colony. Propose that the local government should have the right to present petitions to the High Council and that the High Council shall have the right to intervene in any colony with a two thirds vote.
-[X] Point out that requirements for native born government leaders would replace the founding generation with their children. Thereby replacing the more experienced and wise with young and inexperienced leaders. Furthermore it would create hostility between parents and children. Nor do you think the benefits particularly great. Point out that while you still have great affection for your birth planet of Gallium, you would not sacrifice Avernus for Gallium. Similarly, you do not believe that the parents of the children of the colony are going to sacrifice their children for the sake of their colonizer. While there surely will be a long lasting loyalty to their colonizer, it will be as an adult child to their parent, and not as a slave or servant. Does a person sacrifice their child for the sake of their parent? The native born proposal is based on an assumption of conflict that should not be assumed to exist within a family. In being imposed it will create the very conflict that is assumes.
-[X] On the subject of the High Council interfering in a colony, point out that it will be a significant action, and should only take place under egregious circumstances. To minimize hostility from the colonizer, it would be better to require a significant portion of the Imperial Trust to take such a controversial step.
No. of Votes: 6

[X] Defences: Strengthened Compromise Plan
[X] Middle Ground Protections
[X] Additional Protection 1: After fifty years, at least 75% of the PDF being recruited from that point should be from the local population.
[X] Additional Protection 2: After twenty years, a basic level of universal education must be available to the population. At fifty years, some level of higher education must be made available. The Low Council will spend some time over the next ten years working with the educational institutions of the Imperial Trust to establish a few proposals for the minimum curriculum, which will be voted upon by the High Council in ten years.
No. of Votes: 6

[X] Support the compromise position put forward by Governor-General Aelfric
-[X] Point out that each proposal is built around the historical experiences of the various systems about what worked best for them. Each approach is valid, but here we are only setting the minimum requirements. It's quite probable that many colonizers will improve their colony's defenses beyond this minimum. Let us pick the compromise position, and then each colonizer can extend those defenses in whichever way they think best.
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 13


@Beyogi, @Darkcrest, @dragon, @ebolasos, @oilworker - You may want to reconsider on Elder Haman's plan, at least for the protections portion. The GM disagrees with his reasoning against the local born government requirement, and given we have ten of eleven other people voting for some variant of that I don't think we would stand a chance of convincing them to stand down on it.

Also, on defences I think we should definitely include the additional requirements in the compromise plan, as I proposed. The militia requirement is confirmed to be a popular idea, so including it should help with passing. We definitely want at least one Defence Cruiser available for anti-piracy, as Ork pirates will likely become common and if Valinor is an enemy I expect they'll attempt commerce raiding as part of their strategy against us.

Further, the 1% constitutional requirement on regiments is definitely mandatory. A colony would have a minimum of 1,000 regiments by the time is gains independence, but with the exceptional growth rates we can expect due to our healthcare STCs a colony could easily need more than that - a colony of 100,000,000 people with an annual growth rate of 5% (easily possible on non-Death Worlds with breathable atmosphere, like Fjol IV) would pass a population of a billion before 50 years has passed, so 1% would be more than the 1,000 regiments they'd be required to have by 100 years.
 
I've been out of the loop..

What's the difference between Eldar Haman and Enjou this time?
 
I've been out of the loop..

What's the difference between Eldar Haman and Enjou this time?
Enjou's plan has stronger emphasis on the requirement for local governments to have members who were locally born. Elder Haman's plan has looser restrictions on the basis that such people would be young and inexperienced compared to the first generation (born on sponsor world) colonists.
 
I've been out of the loop..

What's the difference between Eldar Haman and Enjou this time?

I suggest reading the entire discussion from the last update onwards (it's only a few pages).

Then check out the actual votes:
Plan Elder Haman
Plan Enjou

Enjou's plan has stronger emphasis on the requirement for local governments to have members who were locally born. Elder Haman's plan has looser restrictions on the basis that such people would be young and inexperienced compared to the first generation (born on sponsor world) colonists.

Also mine tacks a few things onto the defence plan proposed by Aelfric to make it more robust.
 
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