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The God Diversion

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Hm... a KoM variant is also possible with E7 A7, Hermes 2, Sanctum 0, Cups 4, Comfort's 7, Connections 7. This loses .4 net combat Aspect Levels but retains all the utility Aspect levels of the baseline KoM (-.2 Sanctum, +.2 Arcanum). It goes down to +42.5 Will per turn and loses two Connections levels, but fixes KoM's glaring weaknesses of XP inefficiency and baseline physique - we'd be 33% faster and like 5000% more durable than the baseline KoM, and our general Arcanum would be back up to 8 as a result of E7 A7. Numerically it's also a bit more elegant with everything being at level 7, and there's plenty of low-hanging fruit left to pick - Sanctum 2, Hermes 3 etc. Connections 9 would also be available for cheap.

Is losing 10 Will / turn, 2 Connections levels and 0.4 combat Aspect worth it? Baseline KoM generates 67.5, this generates 57.5, and Be Water generates 50 Will per turn.

If we do think we can get decent amounts of XP in the next few turns, this build may be much more practical as it gets the two large chunk purchases out of the way, while retaining many small prospects that each see an impactful improvement to the build - Connections 9 (~468 XP), Hermes 3 (1k), Sanctum 2 (750), Comfort's Embrace 10 (~1.2k). Might be easier to stomach psychologically, and the end result is that we'll have all the benefits of KoM without the weaknesses of a low-Eldritch build, and +0.2 Aspect Levels in everything to boot! We wouldn't actually lose much Will if we picked up the Comfort's Embrace levels swiftly.

What do you think, KoM and SaG voters? This 'saves' us about 12k XP in getting E7. Noncrappy Compromise option?
 
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Connections 9 was the main reason for my sole vote to KoM. I really wanted to see the Aspect synergies come online right away, especially after the scene with Penelope leveled up alongside Sol too - a good chance to see it in action through the lens of this technique.

It just makes Sol more interesting. We're also going draw attention from our meteoric rise and do a lot of heavy socialing. Connections at a high level would equip Sol with hidden insight to handle them, leverage his and aspects of his allies. It's harnessing the true power of Roles drawing from the thematics of the Class. Which is the true road to power in this setting.
 
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[X] Be Water, My Friend
[X] King of Winter

Who knew all it took to become a functional human being was just spit in the face of incredible Eldritch Value. Sorry Symon, I know we just adopted you but you're getting zero screen time on your own birth.

Making a functional human being out of Sol should really be our main priority so we can take most advantage out of the downtime mechanics, we might even be able to get some interaction in (as if, lol, lmao)!
 
[X] Simple and Good Part II
[X] King of Winter

I decided to try my hand at making a build, since I think Earth/Pentacles is kinda being slept on rn. Not having Arcanum 7 hurts a bit, but it's a pretty potent build and it sets us up to get a lot of progression we can put into Hermes to improve our offensive capabilities. In the meantime, the Red Athame will be a super powerful weapon in our hands.

[X] Brick Shithouse
Eldritch 8, Arcanum 6
Hermes the Destroyer 2
Sanctum 2
Arcane Focus (Earth/Pentacles) 2
Comfort's Embrace 8, Idle Study 7
Connections 5
Leftover XP: 3.3

*Near indestructibility taking advantage of the high Eldritch discount, and Pentacles for further physical enhancement
*Pentacles and a decent amount of Sanctum will make crafting items to make up for our lackluster Arcanum and Hermes far easier
*High Comfort and Idle Study will make generating will and xp passively far easier while getting ever closer to being a functional human being
*Connections 9 for architecture shenanigans and making sure the odds are always in our favor
 
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Rihaku said:
Hm... a KoM variant is also possible with E7 A7, Hermes 2, Sanctum 0, Cups 4, Comfort's 7, Connections 7. This loses .4 net combat Aspect Levels but retains all the utility Aspect levels of the baseline KoM (-.2 Sanctum, +.2 Arcanum). It goes down to +42.5 Will per turn and loses two Connections levels, but fixes KoM's glaring weaknesses of XP inefficiency and baseline physique - we'd be 33% faster and like 5000% more durable than the baseline KoM, and our general Arcanum would be back up to 8 as a result of E7 A7. Numerically it's also a bit more elegant with everything being at level 7, and there's plenty of low-hanging fruit left to pick - Sanctum 2, Hermes 3 etc. Connections 9 would also be available for cheap.

Is losing 10 Will / turn, 2 Connections levels and 0.4 combat Aspect worth it? Baseline KoM generates 67.5, this generates 57.5, and Be Water generates 50 Will per turn.

If we do think we can get decent amounts of XP in the next few turns, this build may be much more practical as it gets the two large chunk purchases out of the way, while retaining many small prospects that each see an impactful improvement to the build - Connections 9 (~468 XP), Hermes 3 (1k), Sanctum 2 (750), Comfort's Embrace 10 (~1.2k). Might be easier to stomach psychologically, and the end result is that we'll have all the benefits of KoM without the weaknesses of a low-Eldritch build, and +0.2 Aspect Levels in everything to boot! We wouldn't actually lose much Will if we picked up the Comfort's Embrace levels swiftly.

What do you think, KoM and SaG voters? This 'saves' us about 12k XP in getting E7. Noncrappy Compromise option?
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I'd like if you changed it yeah.
 
_brightwing said:
Connections 9 was the main reason for my sole vote to KoM. I really wanted to see the Aspect synergies come online right away, especially after the scene with Penelope leveled up alongside Sol too - a good chance to see it in action through the lens of this technique.
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We don't know what Connections 9 does yet, since Birdsie hasn't written it. It's only 468 XP away anyway. We could drop a Hermes level to get it immediately, which I personally would prefer but it would take us below 10.0 Combat which many may not find acceptable.

GildedSergeant said:
[X] Brick Shithouse
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By my manual calc this costs roughly 16666+7500+500+1750+300+(180*42*.25)+(180*33*.25)+(125*36*.25) = 31,216 XP?

Also, it's not clear whether we can take Connections up to 9 with only Arcanum 6, as our Architecture level isn't very high. This build may only be able to take Connections 7 natively, which would fix some of the overspend.

Lealope said:
Not worth it. The main thing that attracts people to King of Winter is the increased Will, without that, we're just splitting the vote.
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If we buy Comfy quickly KoW might only generate 10 more Will in total than the variant, while being 12,000 XP behind!
 
Rihaku said:
We don't know what Connections 9 does yet, since Birdsie hasn't written it. It's only 468 XP away anyway. We could drop a Hermes level to get it immediately, which I personally would prefer but it would take us below 10.0 Combat which many may not find acceptable.



By my manual calc this costs roughly 16666+7500+500+1750+300+(180*42*.25)+(180*33*.25)+(125*36*.25) = 31,216 XP?

Also, it's not clear whether we can take Connections up to 9 with only Arcanum 6, as our Architecture level isn't very high. This build may only be able to take Connections 7 natively, which would fix some of the overspend.



If we buy Comfy quickly KoW might only generate 10 more Will in total than the variant, while being 12,000 XP behind!
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Yeah please change it it's not that much more will and most decisions that we wouldn't be able to make because of that lack of will are gonna be solved by some jello. I think it's uncomfortably risky to waste that much exp on this.
 
Rihaku said:
Hm... a KoM variant is also possible with E7 A7, Hermes 2, Sanctum 0, Cups 4, Comfort's 7, Connections 7. This loses .4 net combat Aspect Levels but retains all the utility Aspect levels of the baseline KoM (-.2 Sanctum, +.2 Arcanum). It goes down to +42.5 Will per turn and loses two Connections levels, but fixes KoM's glaring weaknesses of XP inefficiency and baseline physique - we'd be 33% faster and like 5000% more durable than the baseline KoM, and our general Arcanum would be back up to 8 as a result of E7 A7. Numerically it's also a bit more elegant with everything being at level 7, and there's plenty of low-hanging fruit left to pick - Sanctum 2, Hermes 3 etc. Connections 9 would also be available for cheap.

Is losing 10 Will / turn, 2 Connections levels and 0.4 combat Aspect worth it? Baseline KoM generates 67.5, this generates 57.5, and Be Water generates 50 Will per turn.

If we do think we can get decent amounts of XP in the next few turns, this build may be much more practical as it gets the two large chunk purchases out of the way, while retaining many small prospects that each see an impactful improvement to the build - Connections 9 (~468 XP), Hermes 3 (1k), Sanctum 2 (750), Comfort's Embrace 10 (~1.2k). Might be easier to stomach psychologically, and the end result is that we'll have all the benefits of KoM without the weaknesses of a low-Eldritch build, and +0.2 Aspect Levels in everything to boot! We wouldn't actually lose much Will if we picked up the Comfort's Embrace levels swiftly.

What do you think, KoM and SaG voters? This 'saves' us about 12k XP in getting E7. Noncrappy Compromise option?
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I would retract my vote for KoW should these changes take effect. Im in it for the maximized will gains and high connection levels.
 
[x]Simple and Good Part II
[X] Be Water, My Friend

Yeah thinking about it I can't abide what I think is a waste of exp even if I like connections.
 
If we really want Connections 9 now, we can retain it with the modification (Hermes 1, Connections 9) onto the variant. It would drop our combat power but perhaps that's not so relevant right now, and the variant's higher speed / durability probably makes up for it anyway. This would funnel even more XP into discounted sections so I am not against it.

Getting Comfy back to the 10-11 range is considerably more expensive at roughly ~400 XP a pop. Our only remaining lever is to reduce Cups to 3 instead of Hermes to 1, but that itself reduces Will income by 5 (and overall power by .35 + smaller Will discount!) a turn so we'd end up at 47.5 instead of 52.5. We could take Comfy to 12 to compensate but it's incredibly inefficient.

To sum - retaining Connections 9 with a variant is entirely possible, retaining Comfy to the same level isn't very likely. But we can get Comfy back to 10 for 1.2k in short order, if desired.
 
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Rihaku said:
If we really want Connections 9 now, we can retain it with the modification (Hermes 1, Connections 9) onto the variant. It would drop our combat power but perhaps that's not so relevant right now, and the variant's higher speed durability probably makes up for it anyway. This would funnel even more XP into discounted sections so I am not against it.

Getting Comfy back to the 10-11 range is considerably more expensive at roughly ~400 XP a pop. Our only remaining lever is to reduce Cups to 3 instead of Hermes to 1, but that itself reduces Will income by 5 (and overall power by .35 + smaller Will discount!) a turn so we'd end up at 47.5 instead of 52.5. We could take Comfy to 12 to compensate but it's incredibly inefficient.

To sum - retaining Connections 9 with a variant is entirely possible, retaining Comfy to the same level isn't very likely. But we can get Comfy back to 10 for 1.2k in short order, if desired.
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Or alternatively, just keep the option as presented. I don't want eldritch 7 at the cost of things that made me actually vote for the build.
 
Questionable said:
10 will is gigantic. This liberates a ridiculously amount of space for our downtime actions.
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10 Will/turn, yes. 10 Will total... I would not think so? the known reliable source of XP, individualised classwork, trades 30 Will+1 Action(worth 10 Will+10 XP from decompress) for 250 XP, setting an exchange rate of 40 Will for 240 XP, meaning 1 Will is worth about 6 XP. Exploration is likely to be better, of course, but it's probably not 200x better; and 200x is how much better it needs to be, for 10 Will to be worth more than 12,000 XP conserved.

How many turns would it take us to get the avoided levels? Comfort 8/9/10/11 and Connections 8/9 are: 180*8+9+10+11, and 850+1000, before discounts. So, with the discounts, 2173 XP. Assuming Exploration is at least as good as individualised classwork and we join the club, then, it'd take at most 10 turns, for a total of about 50 will (not 100, as we'd buy the further levels piecemeal across that span). This still requires Exploration to be 40x better than Classwork to make the trade not worth it, and even if that, improbably, happens it just makes us. get comfort8/9/10/11 and connections 8/9 on the next turn. I don't think it's plausible for the trade-off to not be worth it overall.
 
Rihaku said:
If we really want Connections 9 now, we can retain it with the modification (Hermes 1, Connections 9) onto the variant. It would drop our combat power but perhaps that's not so relevant right now, and the variant's higher speed / durability probably makes up for it anyway. This would funnel even more XP into discounted sections so I am not against it.

Getting Comfy back to the 10-11 range is considerably more expensive at roughly ~400 XP a pop. Our only remaining lever is to reduce Cups to 3 instead of Hermes to 1, but that itself reduces Will income by 5 (and overall power by .35 + smaller Will discount!) a turn so we'd end up at 47.5 instead of 52.5. We could take Comfy to 12 to compensate but it's incredibly inefficient.

To sum - retaining Connections 9 with a variant is entirely possible, retaining Comfy to the same level isn't very likely. But we can get Comfy back to 10 for 1.2k in short order, if desired.
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I wouldn't mind the connections part as upgrading Hermes quickly won't be as hard since it's so low level. But I'm fine how that plan is now.
 
Let it not be said that if a compromise yet fails to be reached, it was for a lack of effort on our part!

E7 A7, Hermes 1, Sanctum 1, Cups 4, Comfy 8, Connections 9 with Comfy made into a combination Sanctum technique (-33% cost) is achievable with 29,265 XP, giving us ~100 XP of leeway. This build gets Connections 9 and generates +60 Will per turn with a moderate discount to one option per month, and the slightly lower versatility of Sanctum Comfort's Embrace is not likely to be relevant given we are pursuing a combination of Remedials and short Exploration actions which won't see Solomon away from the Educator for one month+

EDIT: Given JoeBOB's calculations below we can actually afford Comfy 10 with this build, bringing our Will per turn to +65! We'll also have ~270 XP left over to buy Arcane Induction or put towards Hermes 2 if we want.

This build also has slightly higher utility levels than baseline, and it is extremely efficient both Will- and XP-wise, striking an excellent balance with maximum utilization of every trick and resource available to us. There is literally no more room to optimize!
 
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Rihaku said:
By my manual calc this costs roughly 16666+7500+500+1750+300+(180*42*.25)+(180*33*.25)+(125*36*.25) = 31,216 XP?
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Thanks for sharing your math! My formulas for the techniques weren't quite right, I'll fix the build and the spreadsheet in a few.

Edit: Everything is now fixed and up to date
 
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In light of these optimizations, I'm also going to adjust Be Water in the following manner:

*Connections 5 -> Connections 8
*Comfort's Embrace 5 -> Sanctum Comfort's Embrace 7 (+5 Will per turn)
*1k XP on the 4th Eldritch synergy Technique reduced to 250

Total Cost of the build: Now 29,291. The very slightly weaker magic should be compensated for by the much stronger Connections, in many cases, and we'll get a bit more Will per turn too.
 
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[x]Simple and Good Part II
[X] King of Winter

Honestly the only thing I really want from this vote is Arcanum 7. Eldritch, while nice, isn't integral to our build so I'm fine with wasting some of the discount on it.
 
Rihaku said:
There is literally no more room to optimize!
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technically, having 90 XP left does mean you have the slack to pick up 1 level of Arcane Induction. If it was 100 XP, you'd have the slack for a narrow level 1 Technique, perhaps an improved teleport spell to further mitigate the downsides of a fixed Sanctum.
...my calculations actually say it costs 28439.3333 XP, though, so we have more leeway... Let's see...
E6+E7: 8000/3/4+16000/3=6000
A3+4+5+6+7: (1000+2000+4000+8000+16000)/2=15500
S1: 250.
Cups 1+2+3+4: 300+600+1200+2400=4500
Sanctumize Comfy: 100. (maybe 25.)
Comfy 3+4+5+6+7+8: (120*(3+4+5+6+7+8))/4=990
Connections 2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9: (100+250+350+500+600+750+850+1000)/4=1100
6000+15500+250+4500+100+990+1100=28440

There's nothing in the build besides these, right? So it has 915 XP of slack.
 
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