[X] Be Water, My Friend
[X] Penultimate Sloth
[X] Penultimate Sloth
The God Diversion
- Thread starter Birdsie
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Hello, it is me - A guy with one out-there kabbalistic argument and much experience retrieving objects from posterior schisms. It seems to me that the time has come for me to show you THE parts of the TRUTH that support my current inclinations! Let me tell you what Water is: Water is the outside element! The intercessor in God's design, the unknown arrival! Per genesis (...) and therefore, God is afraid of water, that He did not manifest! Indeed, you are both correct, but take your points not far enough- Water is not simply 'not kabbalah', but a rejection of Kabbalah, its antithesis! An outside element! It is precisely Water which we must grasp for Solomon to wield the Architecture, for like God did not expect for water, the structure does not expect his insight- and yet has not water taken hold the world over? Humans are mostly water and the greater part of the lands submerged! It is the interloper that won in the end, and Solomon must take after it. What good is foreseeing the future with Kabbalah if it comes to pass unchanged regardless? One must know the Kabbalah so they may act beyond it- it does not do to allow your role to subsume you!
-Ah, but this doesn't change SMBlade's point, yes? That Water is the least resonant with the magician by rote addition- Hah! Who is the Magician, but an upstart fool seeking to divert the heavens, an interloper in the grand design? The 'firebrand', save that the fire here is water? 'As above, so below' doesn't just mean that the ground reflects the heavens, but that to change the ground, first must change the heavens, a loftier task by far- and it is Water that represents just that.
(And furthermore: the heavens above are clearly Water and Air(for obvious reasons), and the below are Fire and Earth(for hopefully equally obvious reasons). What coincidence, then, that those first two aid Architecture, and the latter overt might? As Above, So Below- if Solomon grasps the Architecture, then the rest shall follow.)
- Location
- Louisiana
[X] Simple and Good Part II
As much as I broadly support the mechanical impact of water here, I simply don't like the style of play. The heretical muscle wizard build isn't one I want to play into for Sol specifically. Improved will gains would greatly improve our long term actions, but I don't really want to go for the kind of build it largely supports. Sol is the king of magi, I would like him to be a magician rather than a magically juiced up venom.
Fire on the other hand is absurdly powerful. The raw aspect levels alone puts us in a class all our own. It would allow us to take more absurd risks in exploration and better utilize fortuna. Once we finally develop sanctum more, our sanctum casting would be absurdly potent. Summoning/life creation could go a long way towards having extended effects with our minimal number of spells.
Water is a more long term efficient option since we can get more actions in a given turn. Fire gives those options much heavier weight. The architecture learning part of me wants to go with water, but I think stylistically fire is just superior.
As much as I broadly support the mechanical impact of water here, I simply don't like the style of play. The heretical muscle wizard build isn't one I want to play into for Sol specifically. Improved will gains would greatly improve our long term actions, but I don't really want to go for the kind of build it largely supports. Sol is the king of magi, I would like him to be a magician rather than a magically juiced up venom.
Fire on the other hand is absurdly powerful. The raw aspect levels alone puts us in a class all our own. It would allow us to take more absurd risks in exploration and better utilize fortuna. Once we finally develop sanctum more, our sanctum casting would be absurdly potent. Summoning/life creation could go a long way towards having extended effects with our minimal number of spells.
Water is a more long term efficient option since we can get more actions in a given turn. Fire gives those options much heavier weight. The architecture learning part of me wants to go with water, but I think stylistically fire is just superior.
[X] Simple and Good Part II
Because it has the biggest numbers.
Because it has the biggest numbers.
Rihaku
The Internet
Hm… with Earth's new spatial manipulation focus Capitalism, Ho has gotten a mechanical shot in the arm. Is there any interest from the voterbase in re-introducing it? We'd be able to get further Pangothica content and probably more interaction with upperclassmen.
Be Water replicating Let it Go (explicit cryokinesis!) while Solomon overcomes his Will-imposed passivity is a pretty compelling image, though…
Be Water replicating Let it Go (explicit cryokinesis!) while Solomon overcomes his Will-imposed passivity is a pretty compelling image, though…
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- Location
- not doing my homework
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- He/They
Own a arcane artillery batter for home defense, since that's what the Educator intended. Four world-bosses break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my wizard hat and ash wand. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my Revolver on the second man, miss him entirely because I forgot to say the Incantation and nails the neighbor's dog. I have to resort to the 20 uses of a destructive spell capable of leveling a city block at the top of the stairs, "Tally ho lads" the lightning bolt incinerates two men in the blast, the sound and ash set off car alarms. Produce my Athame and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since his blood is on fire and his wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the Educator intended.
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- 1
Birdsie has now confirmed that Sanctumized Comfort's Embrace can be 60/level(33.33%) cheaper than the ordinary version (ie: the ordinary version costs 180, 360, 540, 620, 800, etcetera; Sanctumized costs 120, 240, 360, 480, 600.), so any build which spends more than 300 XP on Comfort's Embrace should make it a Sanctum-Arcanum combination technique. And any others probably should too, for long-term efficiency, but it's not an immediate XP save for those.
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- 1
an additional point I'm retrospectively surprised I failed to include: whether Water is synergistic or not with our Role(One could, after all, argue the Magician to be about making there be below what is already above, not changing the above so as to change the below, or some such), it is doubtless synergistic with Roles in general. The Educator was an architecturalist, was Water, before Solomon; his great work of Roles is his interloping element into the architecture, is the water feared by god, working its influence ever-deeper throughout the whole of the world year by year. Just as every human bears water, soon all shall bear the 'water' of Thematic empowerment.
Pyrurge
Vajra
The only thing I like in Water is Will, and while that's a really great benefit, I like everything about Fire much, much more. Besides, Fire scales incredibly hard, Simple and Good is already much more powerful spellcasting-wise than Water, and the difference will only grow with more levels in Arcane Focus; meanwhile, Water's main benefit will likely fall off late in the quest when we solve our Will problem through Architecture research, and Cups don't scale nearly as well as Wands' utterly ridiculous explosive power. Then there's the fact that a noticeable part of Water's power is in muscle wizardry, which was never Magician's primary focus, and will likely similarly fall off compared to just furthering our pure spellcasting, like Simple and Good does and will do in the future. Let's stick to what we're good at, which is reshaping reality with our will.
[X] Simple and Good Part II
[X] Simple and Good Part II
Pyrurge
Vajra
WoG clarification on Wands and Cups themed spells scaling: Wands' burst bonus continues to scale at 0.2 per level, at
, while Cups continue to scale at 0.25. While at face value that means that Cups outscale Wands at level 14, in actuality Wands gain other benefits at higher level, such as better longevity and less losses, and at some point Wands also become able to additionally double its own effectiveness for a short period, so at Wands 10 we'd gain +6.0 Aspect Level for a short period of world-breaking potency. So, effectively, at higher levels Wands' scaling turns from 0.2 per level to 0.4, which is… still incredibly big, yeah.Birdsie said:
- Location
- washington
That there are still hundreds of things past our level and will continue to be for a while?
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- not doing my homework
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- He/They
Because the story is more interesting if there is actually some sort of trial? Like, super high will at this point of the story would be boring under the conditions of Sol getting loads of encounters he's overleveled for - rather than have an external struggle against such factors, his struggle is all with his own ennui. An interesting storyline, I think.
Rihaku
The Internet
After confirming with Birdsie that this will negligibly affect the Arcanum level, and also confirming the viability of the Technique-as-written, I will be making the following small adjustments to Be Water:
*Replace one of the four free Eldritch Techniques with Lethal Protector level 3. This will yield immense power and flexibility without depleting our mana pool: shapeshifting, disguise creation, tool / mass generation and rapid regeneration. The arsenal of Carnage will be ours to wield.
*Cut Sanctum and Hermes one level
*Buy an Arcanum-enhancing Eldritch Technique with the remaining XP
*Replace one of the four free Eldritch Techniques with Lethal Protector level 3. This will yield immense power and flexibility without depleting our mana pool: shapeshifting, disguise creation, tool / mass generation and rapid regeneration. The arsenal of Carnage will be ours to wield.
*Cut Sanctum and Hermes one level
*Buy an Arcanum-enhancing Eldritch Technique with the remaining XP
[X] Penultimate Sloth
This is the build that gets us a lot of passive Will and XP generation which is extremely useful.
Arcanum 7 lets us destroy towns up to 20 times a skirmish, defend against a town leveling attack, can teleport half a state in a ritual and could likely teleport by self instantly, armor that buffs people, lifespan extensions (50-100 year), make artifacts.
Eldritch 6 gives a 6.5x healing factor which is extremely useful.
Sanctum 5 will give us a place of power where Sol is massively buffed, plus I have a goal of using the Brass Cube to make our own world and then making that entire world a Sanctum, also it's a safe place where Sol will be extremely hard to hurt or find.
Comfort's Embrace 7, Idle Study 6 will boost Will and XP gain. +30 Will and +30 XP
Basically the idea behind this for me is that Sol's major limiting factor is his Will. This goes a long way to negating his Will problems by boosting his Will gains. Arcanum 7 and Eldritch 6 makes it so that Sol is more than safe against almost anything he can face given that he can level towns, defenses against town leveling blows, teleport, and can heal very quickly. Sanctum will make a place where Sol can hide from the few people he isn't able to take on and he'll be able to take them in there. Comfort's Embrace and Idle Study means Sol is always getting Will and XP which he can then invest into future improvement.
This is the build that gets us a lot of passive Will and XP generation which is extremely useful.
Arcanum 7 lets us destroy towns up to 20 times a skirmish, defend against a town leveling attack, can teleport half a state in a ritual and could likely teleport by self instantly, armor that buffs people, lifespan extensions (50-100 year), make artifacts.
Eldritch 6 gives a 6.5x healing factor which is extremely useful.
Sanctum 5 will give us a place of power where Sol is massively buffed, plus I have a goal of using the Brass Cube to make our own world and then making that entire world a Sanctum, also it's a safe place where Sol will be extremely hard to hurt or find.
Comfort's Embrace 7, Idle Study 6 will boost Will and XP gain. +30 Will and +30 XP
Basically the idea behind this for me is that Sol's major limiting factor is his Will. This goes a long way to negating his Will problems by boosting his Will gains. Arcanum 7 and Eldritch 6 makes it so that Sol is more than safe against almost anything he can face given that he can level towns, defenses against town leveling blows, teleport, and can heal very quickly. Sanctum will make a place where Sol can hide from the few people he isn't able to take on and he'll be able to take them in there. Comfort's Embrace and Idle Study means Sol is always getting Will and XP which he can then invest into future improvement.
[X] Be Water, My Friend
[X] King of Winter
[X] King of Winter
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- Location
- Louisiana
Cutting a level of sanctum and Hermes is a relatively big deal. I'd rather have the scaling on those two aspects than another eldritch technique. Sanctum combos well with potion crafting, and Hermes buffs up our melee attacks. Both of these aspects will scale better than specific eldritch techniques. Getting a solid aspect foundation is important imo.
- Location
- Where Jokes Die
[X] Simple and Good Part II
'Ate crafters, 'ate potioneers, simple as.
'Ate crafters, 'ate potioneers, simple as.
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- 1
+17.5 Will, actually. Comfort's Embrace gives 2.5/level, not 5, we just started with level 2.
also, Penultimate Sloth's structure uses out-of-date prices; if you're a fan of it, I'd suggest rewriting it with the new prices. Most relevantly, both Idle Study and Comfort's Embrace now cost 180N XP for level N, instead of 100*2^(N-1) XP for level N; and Comfort's Embrace (Sanctum+Arcanum; 100XP surcharge) is instead 120N. Idle Study may also be possible to make into a Sanctum technique, probably with a similar benefit and cost if so.
('Be Water, My Friend' is actually more lucrative Will-wise than the outdated Penultimate Sloth's yields, since the 3 Cups levels are like 8 Comfort's Embrace levels. Indeed, a Penultimate Sloth variant can only outperform Be Water's effective Comfort level of 13 by 1, and only if it deliberately doesn't Sanctumize Comfort's Embrace for 2 extra maximum Comfort's Embrace levels.To go harder into Will than Be Water, you effectively need to be taking the Cups devotion at level 3 anyway, and then you redesign the rest of the build-perhaps from a base like Be Water- to combine that with an even higher Comfort's Embrace level. Within the current vote, I think it caps out at an effective Comfort level of 20, for +50 Will/turn, if you drop all other considerations? 26 at the absolute most. The Comfort levels are only, like, 3000 or 4500 XP in themselves right now, but the exponential cost on Sanctum/Arcanum (and Devotion: Cups) means you can't push harder.)
- Location
- not doing my homework
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- He/They
Alright it's time to use my degree in the one way I never expected it to be used: analyzing a story on a web forum! The following is a synthesis of dramaturgy, writing about stage/screen (as it has a narrative analysis component), general text analysis from theater history, and the various readings on the subject of education and personal development I was assigned in Acting class (don't ask).
The first question we must posit is thus - what story are we trying to tell? What kind of small-t themes are associated with Solomon Lancaster, the Slacking Loafer (side note: those have the same initials of SL, which i just noticed)? To me, the focus is on 'Slacking'. Sol is incapable of motivating himself to perform basic actions due to a feeling of being ignored by those around him - his family, his peers, his teachers, etc. - and it is only now that he is starting to find the animus to get things done. In terms of the story, we are on the first narrative arc - the introduction and early rising action, etc. etc. The conflict between natural talent and drive is central to Solomon's story and growth as a character. I would present that in removing it at this juncture with nary a thought save a large infusion of cash we are reducing the interesting part of the story - Sol's internal conflict with his own ennui - in favor of player convenience and mechanical excellence. Why would Solomon decide, at this juncture, to give himself the power to motivate himself? He does not feel any less ignored than he has previously - true understanding of the Architecture is still beyond him, and therefore his animus lies beyond his reach. To me, Cups is a mechanical shortcut that leads to out-of-character satisfaction but a really lackluster narrative impact (as Solomon has solved his central character conflict with magic and a whale). In comparison Wands, Discs, and Swords all represent - to varying extents - Sol focusing on finding that animus on his own through the means he has access to, rather than artificially inducing it. It represents, in my opinion, a much more interesting arc for Sol as for all his power/manifestation/as above so below-ness he cannot do much because of his lack of motivation - centering his conflict on himself even as he steamrolls through the early-game's external conflict.
Let us look broader - Birdsie's stated intent within his signature of the God Diversion's thematic content is that it is "about the modern education system and its ramifications on society". I do think it is worth looking at the themes here and how they resonated with both Cups and Wands. Now, part of the way this meshes with Solomon is that the school system has failed him - it was ultimately incapable of servicing his needs and his teachers gave up trying. I would present that the way forward in terms of a satisfying resolution to this theme - the school system's failure - is for Solomon to come to his own conclusion. Cups uses the tools given to him by his education to outright solve his lack of animus whereas Wands is arguably unrelated, with the potential solutions to his ennui being his new friends (representing the uplift effect in which peers perceive where their fellows lag behind and compensate, showcasing a healthy social dynamic in school) or in supplementary classes with the Educator (i.e. the school system actually concerning itself with students that need help and taking measures to help them). Juxtapose these two things together and my argument can be found. Thematically, how has the modern education system affected Sol? It failed him, and rather than find the solution (even a temporaryish one) through study and happenstance he has found motivation from his friends making efforts to include him or the school system taking measures to address his specific struggles.
Finally, let us put ourselves into Solomon Lancaster's (infrequently used) shoes. What would he desire, what would he think, at this point in the story? Critically, he barely has a reason to care yet. He understands that his education, particularly his remedial lessons, are the solution to his ennui in the full picture but has yet to feel the effects of it. He has found a way to advance his studies, but is also conscious of his responsibilities should he advance so far. In a concession to his own sloth he has granted a significant portion of this resource to Penny, someone he barely knows, but he has still gained a massive amount of pure unadulterated knowledge. Considering these factors, and assuming he has determined with his own genius that the two optimal builds are "Be Water, My Friend" and "Simple and Good Part II", I believe he would choose the latter. Why? Because he does not want to act. Why would he suddenly gain the desire to motivate himself without just trying to motivate himself naturally? Sol has no reason to give up his ennui. He remains ignore, he remains alone, he remains largely unaided. There is no impetus for him to take a magic spell that gives him Will. He remains as he is, the Slacking Loafer - and as above, so below, a Slacking Loafer he will prefer to stay. What S&GII offers him is simply the ability to leverage his considerable might should he desire it, rather than force himself to act with magic spells as in BWMY's Will gain. In my view, at least, Solomon has no desire to increase his Will - he is an object at rest and will remain at rest until acted upon by another force.
In summary, what have I presented? Broadly speaking, I have written an analysis not of the math but of the flavor. Let others argue about the hard facts - I am a student of the humanities, and I did not languish in my expensive basement room taking the bus and eating comical amounts of instant noodles just to not analyze things. I have presented for your perusal three broad categories of why I think it would be better from the narrative view for Sol to pick anything but Cups - particularly but not only "Simple and Good Part II" - from the way his own themes and conflicts develop, to the broader thematic content of Birdsie's The God Diversion, all the way to a small character analysis to demonstrate why I believe that Solomon would pick Wands over Cups.
The first question we must posit is thus - what story are we trying to tell? What kind of small-t themes are associated with Solomon Lancaster, the Slacking Loafer (side note: those have the same initials of SL, which i just noticed)? To me, the focus is on 'Slacking'. Sol is incapable of motivating himself to perform basic actions due to a feeling of being ignored by those around him - his family, his peers, his teachers, etc. - and it is only now that he is starting to find the animus to get things done. In terms of the story, we are on the first narrative arc - the introduction and early rising action, etc. etc. The conflict between natural talent and drive is central to Solomon's story and growth as a character. I would present that in removing it at this juncture with nary a thought save a large infusion of cash we are reducing the interesting part of the story - Sol's internal conflict with his own ennui - in favor of player convenience and mechanical excellence. Why would Solomon decide, at this juncture, to give himself the power to motivate himself? He does not feel any less ignored than he has previously - true understanding of the Architecture is still beyond him, and therefore his animus lies beyond his reach. To me, Cups is a mechanical shortcut that leads to out-of-character satisfaction but a really lackluster narrative impact (as Solomon has solved his central character conflict with magic and a whale). In comparison Wands, Discs, and Swords all represent - to varying extents - Sol focusing on finding that animus on his own through the means he has access to, rather than artificially inducing it. It represents, in my opinion, a much more interesting arc for Sol as for all his power/manifestation/as above so below-ness he cannot do much because of his lack of motivation - centering his conflict on himself even as he steamrolls through the early-game's external conflict.
Let us look broader - Birdsie's stated intent within his signature of the God Diversion's thematic content is that it is "about the modern education system and its ramifications on society". I do think it is worth looking at the themes here and how they resonated with both Cups and Wands. Now, part of the way this meshes with Solomon is that the school system has failed him - it was ultimately incapable of servicing his needs and his teachers gave up trying. I would present that the way forward in terms of a satisfying resolution to this theme - the school system's failure - is for Solomon to come to his own conclusion. Cups uses the tools given to him by his education to outright solve his lack of animus whereas Wands is arguably unrelated, with the potential solutions to his ennui being his new friends (representing the uplift effect in which peers perceive where their fellows lag behind and compensate, showcasing a healthy social dynamic in school) or in supplementary classes with the Educator (i.e. the school system actually concerning itself with students that need help and taking measures to help them). Juxtapose these two things together and my argument can be found. Thematically, how has the modern education system affected Sol? It failed him, and rather than find the solution (even a temporaryish one) through study and happenstance he has found motivation from his friends making efforts to include him or the school system taking measures to address his specific struggles.
Finally, let us put ourselves into Solomon Lancaster's (infrequently used) shoes. What would he desire, what would he think, at this point in the story? Critically, he barely has a reason to care yet. He understands that his education, particularly his remedial lessons, are the solution to his ennui in the full picture but has yet to feel the effects of it. He has found a way to advance his studies, but is also conscious of his responsibilities should he advance so far. In a concession to his own sloth he has granted a significant portion of this resource to Penny, someone he barely knows, but he has still gained a massive amount of pure unadulterated knowledge. Considering these factors, and assuming he has determined with his own genius that the two optimal builds are "Be Water, My Friend" and "Simple and Good Part II", I believe he would choose the latter. Why? Because he does not want to act. Why would he suddenly gain the desire to motivate himself without just trying to motivate himself naturally? Sol has no reason to give up his ennui. He remains ignore, he remains alone, he remains largely unaided. There is no impetus for him to take a magic spell that gives him Will. He remains as he is, the Slacking Loafer - and as above, so below, a Slacking Loafer he will prefer to stay. What S&GII offers him is simply the ability to leverage his considerable might should he desire it, rather than force himself to act with magic spells as in BWMY's Will gain. In my view, at least, Solomon has no desire to increase his Will - he is an object at rest and will remain at rest until acted upon by another force.
In summary, what have I presented? Broadly speaking, I have written an analysis not of the math but of the flavor. Let others argue about the hard facts - I am a student of the humanities, and I did not languish in my expensive basement room taking the bus and eating comical amounts of instant noodles just to not analyze things. I have presented for your perusal three broad categories of why I think it would be better from the narrative view for Sol to pick anything but Cups - particularly but not only "Simple and Good Part II" - from the way his own themes and conflicts develop, to the broader thematic content of Birdsie's The God Diversion, all the way to a small character analysis to demonstrate why I believe that Solomon would pick Wands over Cups.
[] Be Water, My Friend
From my understanding the main issue I have is that it doesn't make comfort embrace a Sanctum/Arcanum combo.
E: it got changed. like the compromise option below better though, and they are the top two so only voting below.
[X] King of Winter
From my understanding the main issue I have is that it doesn't make comfort embrace a Sanctum/Arcanum combo.
which from this shows that its better cost wise, And I just like the narrative of making the comfort spell combined with our sanctum.
E: it got changed. like the compromise option below better though, and they are the top two so only voting below.
[X] King of Winter
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