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The God Diversion

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SMBlade said:
Cups uses the tools given to him by his education to outright solve his lack of animus whereas Wands is arguably unrelated, with the potential solutions to his ennui being his new friends (representing the uplift effect in which peers perceive where their fellows lag behind and compensate, showcasing a healthy social dynamic in school) or in supplementary classes with the Educator (i.e. the school system actually concerning itself with students that need help and taking measures to help them). Juxtapose these two things together and my argument can be found. Thematically, how has the modern education system affected Sol? It failed him, and rather than find the solution (even a temporaryish one) through study and happenstance he has found motivation from his friends making efforts to include him or the school system taking measures to address his specific struggles.
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If the more interesting arc of the character is to overcome the problem of will without using magic, then it may be worth completely removing Comfort's Embrace from Simple and Good Part II and enjoying character development that does not spoil magical dope?
This argument is just strange enough because the will is not a value in itself, the will is how actively we can participate in the flow of events.
Wouldn't it be more useful for the development of the character of Solomon to communicate with classmates, explore new unexplored places, make friends than to try to overcome one of his problems without the support of magic when the world is passing mimio him?
 
Hello all! After much trial and error I've made a spreadsheet to make build creation way easier. Just enter which levels you want and it'll tell you how much XP remains. I'd suggest making a copy, since there could be issues if multiple people try to use it at the same time. Please let me know if you see any problems or unexpected behavior!

Also, thanks to @Fghubyygvb for compiling the relevant info on costs and discounts

docs.google.com

The God Diversion Level-Up Sheet

docs.google.com docs.google.com
 
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Alrighty, seeing as Birdsie won't modify Sloth to account for the XP cost changes, I'll do it myself.

Here's the old one:

[ ] Penultimate Sloth

Aspects: Arcanum 7, Eldritch 6, Sanctum 5, Destroyer 1
Techniques:
[Arcanum] Comfort's Embrace 7, Idle Study 6
(+4 free Eldritch)
+ your other current Techniques

XP Leftover: 739

*A combination of safety and comfort; Arcanum grants versatility and sufficient combat strength to prevail, Eldritch physically protects you
*Sanctum gives you an unparalleled hiding spot that can be used to conduct all sorts of rituals; you're difficult to contest within
*An insanely potent combination of Comfort's Embrace 7 and Idle Study 6 generates an extra minimum of +30 Will and 30 XP per turn, with XP increased to a maximum of 120 if you do nothing but Decompress on a given turn (for a total of +75 Will and 120 XP for nothing but slacking off, letting you rapidly regenerate your stores)
*Over 5,000 XP spent on your idle bullshit Techniques might be too much, especially since your current discount will remain around for at least a year
*On the other hand, the Will and XP generation means you can sustain a constant cycle of rest and work, taking one turn of full Decompression and then one of Full Classwork, maintaining perennially impressive XP gains and yet accumulating a net positive sum of Will into your tanks for future, unpredictable expenditures

XP is at 29,355. 27500 of which uses the following rules:

*Automatically obtain Eldritch Aspect at Level 5.
*Gain 27,500 XP. This XP counts as triple if spent on Eldritch; double if spent on Arcanum.
*Discount Level 6 of Eldritch 75%.

The basics of the build will remain the same, however the XP cost of Comfort's Embrace and Idle Study will drop precipitously with the changed cost scaling.

Arcanum 7 will cost(1000+2000+4000+8000+16000) 31,000, which drops to 15,500 with the doubling. Eldritch 6 costs merely 2000 from the discount, then drops to 667 from tripled value. Sanctum 0->5 is (250+500+1000+2000+4000)7750. That's 23,917 XP so far, leaving 5,438.

I'll be Sanctumizing Comfort's Embrace and Idle Study, for 200 XP total, leaving 5,238. This drops the cost for leveling them to 120N. They then get a 75% discount.

Comfort's Embrace 2->8(360+480+600+720+840+960) 3240, which drops to 990. Idle Study 2->8(360+480+600+720+840+960) 3240, which drops to 990. That drops it to 3258.

Connections is a little more complicated, costing 100, then adding 150, then adding 100, then adding 150, etc. So, Connections 1->5 is 100+250+350+500, or 1200 total, which also has a 75% discount, so it's only 300, meaning 2958 left. Connections 7 is another 1350, or 338, or 2620 XP left. The remainder is divided up into 2100 XP for Arcane Focus Level 3(Cups), 500 for Hermes 2, and 20 remaining XP.

So, Neo Penultimate Sloth should work like this:

[X] Neo Penultimate Sloth

Aspects: Arcanum 7, Eldritch 6, Sanctum 5, Destroyer 2
Techniques:
[Arcanum] Sanctumized Comfort's Embrace 8, Sanctumized Idle Study 8, Connections 7, Arcane Focus 3(Devoted Cup)
(+4 free Eldritch)
+ your other current Techniques

XP Leftovers: 20.
Spends 7 SC.

*A combination of safety and comfort; Arcanum grants versatility and sufficient combat strength to prevail, Eldritch physically protects you, Connections 7 is sufficient to 'look through' and cast through your classmates, lets your predictions more reliably 'pierce' other Enrolled, and heavily limited power sharing with your classmates.
*Sanctum gives you an unparalleled hiding spot that can be used to conduct all sorts of rituals; you're difficult to contest within, which should combine well with the ability of Connections(as of Level 3, improves at Level 5) to ping off of connections both from card to Enrolled, and Enrolled to Enrolled.
*6 more Levels of Sanctumized Comfort's Embrace grants an additional +15 Will per Turn automatically, on top of the bonus Cup provides(+20 per Turn at Level 3) on that front. Level 8 Idle Study provides 40 XP per Turn, with additional +40s for each Decompression, meaning a Turn of nothing but Decompression earns 160 XP anyway. It should also be noted that high-level Architecture knowledge has been suggested to be key to resolving Solomon's malaise, and Connections is the sole Architecture-related Technique in his possession at the moment, so Level 7 in it may have an effect.
*Just under 2,000 XP spent on your idle bullshit Techniques shouldn't be too much of an ask, even if your current discount will remain around for at least a year.
*On the other hand, the Will and XP generation means you can sustain a constant cycle of rest and work, taking one turn of full Decompression and then one of Full Classwork, maintaining perennially impressive XP gains and yet accumulating a net positive sum of Will into your tanks for future, unpredictable expenditures.
 
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Fghubyygvb said:
how actively we can participate
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(emphasis mine)

Here I think is the important thing - we are thinking as a group of questors desiring the ability to do things. There is nothing wrong with that! However, putting on my dramaturgical hat I perceive things thusly: Sol barely cares. Why would he care more? Narratively, he is at a choice between 'actually having to do stuff often' and 'doing stuff sometimes', and a character like him (who's major and arguably tragic flaw is sloth) would make the latter choice in a heart beat.

Fghubyygvb said:
communicate with classmates, explore new unexplored places, make friends
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I would further present that this again assumes Sol is in a bubble that only he can breach - again, nothing wrong with that - but as I said to firefrog ~ two or so dozen pages ago Solomon a) is not alone and b) won't approach others if he doesn't REALLY REALLY have to. However, others will approach him: small-scale we've seen it in the Bible Study Group, and Harrison has three relationship points for all that we have taken one choice with his name on it (and it didn't even cost Will). If I recall correctly Penny will also be providing Will benefits (somehow, Birdsie hasn't said much more if at all) - this is a living world which will react to Sol, and drive his character growth.
 
Quick patch note to anyone using the spreadsheet, I forgot XP counts double towards Arcanum. It has been fixed
 
SMBlade said:
(emphasis mine)

Here I think is the important thing - we are thinking as a group of questors desiring the ability to do things. There is nothing wrong with that! However, putting on my dramaturgical hat I perceive things thusly: Sol barely cares. Why would he care more? Narratively, he is at a choice between 'actually having to do stuff often' and 'doing stuff sometimes', and a character like him (who's major and arguably tragic flaw is sloth) would make the latter choice in a heart beat.



I would further present that this again assumes Sol is in a bubble that only he can breach - again, nothing wrong with that - but as I said to firefrog ~ two or so dozen pages ago Solomon a) is not alone and b) won't approach others if he doesn't REALLY REALLY have to. However, others will approach him: small-scale we've seen it in the Bible Study Group, and Harrison has three relationship points for all that we have taken one choice with his name on it (and it didn't even cost Will). If I recall correctly Penny will also be providing Will benefits (somehow, Birdsie hasn't said much more if at all) - this is a living world which will react to Sol, and drive his character growth.
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one note I actually think sol cares a lot hes just 'aware' that nothing he does will matter and even trying just leads to disappointment. After all lets not forget will is the side affect despair is his key trait. If he didn't care he wouldn't be despairing, if he didn't care he'd likely have abused his power, if he didn't care he wouldn't have morals like disliking lying or warning others in the past despite knowing it wouldn't work, and if he didn't care he'd be a monster.
 
That is a linguistic oversight that definitely should have been pointed out - thank you frog! The intended language would be something to the effect of "Sol can't bring himself to act".
 
Fghubyygvb said:
The technique cannot be higher than the aspect to which it belongs.
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Technique Cap is twice the Level, or, in the case of combined Techniques, the average Level, of the relevant Aspects. As seen in The Problem of Evil, where Comfort's Embrace was Level 2, while Arcanum was Level 1. Sanctumized Embrace and Study have 7+5=12. The averaging and doubling cancel out, so their cap should be 12.
 
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@GildedSergeant Has graced us with a Build Calculator!

docs.google.com

The God Diversion Level-Up Sheet

docs.google.com docs.google.com


It was interesting to actually see the math play out

[X] Yer a Wizard Sy, in mah Tower
Arcanum 7, Eldritch 7, Destroyer 3, Sanctum 4
Techniques:
Four Free Techniques: Improve Arcanum to 8 via Eldritch
[Arcanum] Arcane Focus 3 (Devoted: Wands)
[Arcanum] Familius 4
[Arcanum] Arcane Induction 6
[Arcanum?-Architecture] Connections 8
[Sanctum+Arcanum] modify Comfort's Embrace to a Combination Technique. Integrate Eldritch
[Sanctum+Arcanum] Comfort's Embrace 6
[Arcanum+Eldritch] Combination Technique of Familus, Arcane Induction, Eldritch and Connections

Connections 8 so we can start doing Role synergies already, where the main thematic power in Tarot comes to play. I really didn't think we could afford it this early. Can you guys think of some other builds in different directions?
 
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dbRevned said:
[] Be Water, My Friend

From my understanding the main issue I have is that it doesn't make comfort embrace a Sanctum/Arcanum combo.


which from this shows that its better cost wise, And I just like the narrative of making the comfort spell combined with our sanctum.

[X] Neo Penultimate Sloth
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Without Dimensional Sanctum and high Sanctum levels making Comfort's Embrace a combination technique is inadvisable. On long explorations we won't have Sanctum access at all so we'd be drastically lowering its versatility in exchange for a negligible amount of XP.
 
I don't know why, but putting all the free level 3 techniques into boosting arcanum to level 8 seems like a wasted opportunity and I want to try a different technique package.

[x]Simple and Good Part II

[x]Simple and Good with other techniques
-[x]As Simple and Good Part 2, but replace the technique package with I am the Swarm level 3, Maximum Carnage Level 3, Tentacular Movement Level 3(Intended to allow Solomon to replicate Kaneki from Tokyo Ghoul's movements when he fought Jason), Arcanum Booster Level 3
 
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I made this experimental build, which is somewhat speculative and wholly abuses our $$-bought discounts to Comfort's Embrace and Connections:

[X] Be Water, My Friend
[X] King of Winter

Eldritch 7, Arcanum 7, Hermes 3
4 Free Techinques - Boost Arcanum to 8
Arcane Focus - Devotion: Cups 4
Sanctum 3
Arcane Induction 1
Sanctum Comfort's Embrace 10
Connections 9
Put the rest of the XP (412.75) towards Arcanum, effectively netting us 1032 of the 32,000 XP needed for base Arcanum 8, or Arcanum 7.03. This is worth about .69 Effect Rating to all our spells.
Total Cost 29,355

EDIT: With assistance from the thread plus ilbgar, King of Winter has been considerably optimized and no longer suffers from most of its weaknesses. It is now just a really strong caster build with excellent Will management and high Connections!

*A powerful, consistent caster that doesn't have Fire's stamina issues! Combat Arcanum 8 + .9 Hermes + .4 Water + 1.25 Water - .25 Penalty = 10.3 before variable enhancement multiplier; Utility Arcanum 8 + .4 Water +1.25 Water + .6 Sanctum = 10.25 before variable enhancement. Variable enhancement can raise either of these by ~2 Aspect levels, so 12.3 / 12.25 theoretical max. And unlike Fire, this doesn't deplete but is actually more likely to kick in during dramatically appropriate scenarios, since it triggers off Sol's own emotions!
*You thought +35 Will per turn was cool? What about +50 Will per turn?!
*You thought Connections 6 was cool? What about Connections 9, which is probably the most we can get at our current level of Architectural Progress and Arcanum!?
*Retains some spare XP to flashbuy Arcane Induction or put towards Combat and Utility Techniques if we need it.
 
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Birdsie said:
Arcanum 6

Combat: A single offensive invocation (3s) can shred a troop of tanks, and can make numerous (10-13) such invocations in one skirmish, requiring a minute's rest to recover half that capacity, falling off in effectiveness moderately with each rest until a day has passed. Against Enrolled, can instead deploy moderately useful esoteric attacks at relevant combat speeds, such as curses that paralyze or threaten to slay instantly. Can defend and ward against similar forces.

Mobility: Can with a short ritual (25-30 seconds) teleport the self and a mid-sized group of willing passengers across the distance of half an average US state. Can fly at 450kph, protecting the self against the dangers of such a feat. Alternatively, a more complex (3-hour) ritual can transport the group across the continental United States.

Utility: A moderate improvement on Arcanum 5's utility, with a greater variety of more powerful rituals available. Can deploy moderately conceptual rituals, such as a ritual that prevents lawbreaking or collateral damage in an area. Craftsmanship and mass-produced enchanted gear can now rival modern-day cutting edge technology in certain areas; focused exertion can make artifacts that defy the laws of physics. Can unlock some of the secrets of the Athame.

Arcanum 7

Combat: A single offensive invocation (2.5s) can destroy an entire city block and will almost certainly slay any within its boundary, and can make numerous (17-20) such invocations in one skirmish, gradually destroying an entire township. Restores magicka as per above. Can defend and ward against similar forces.

Mobility: Can with a short ritual (25-30 seconds) teleport the self and a mid-sized group of willing passengers across the distance of half an average US state. Can fly at 600kph, protecting the self against the dangers of such a feat. Alternatively, a more complex (2-hour) ritual can transport the group across the continental United States.

Utility: An improvement on Arcanum 6's formula. Can control internal magicka with greater finesse, pouring energy into workings to accelerate casting process, or preserving energy by slowing down casting process, and perform a number of other, minor metamagical feats. Can make a potion that grants longevity (+50-100 years of added lifespan), armor that grants comprehensive combat buffs, and similar items. Can mostly replicate the Athame, alongside most of its utility.

Arcanum 8 -

Combat: An improvement on the city-block-destruction formula: one second to cast, can deploy around 25 times, and recovers half of the capacity with a moment of rest, falling off with successive rests. Can defend against similar forces.

Mobility: Can use the short translocation ritual to traverse from New York to Chicago with a group. Can use the long, 1-hour ritual to travel from Chicago to Paris.

Utility: Could start making gradual into unsealing the Brass Cube, if you had it on you. Can (with meaningful effort on the scale of weeks) manufacture a small amount of ammunition for the Revolver. Can (with meaningful effort on the scale of weeks) exalt a single non-Enrolled into a wizard, or grant an Enrolled access to minor cantrips. Transhuman augmentations on a similar scale can produce combatants that act as relevant distractions and potential threats to a median Enrolled at the end of their first year.
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So I just want to say for pretty much any plan that we choose Solomon is going to be extremely dangerous and scary in combat between his abilities in Arcanum and Eldritch. But I don't think that the out of combat uses for Arcanum has really been talked about that much. Sol will be good enough with Arcanum to teleport and will only get more efficient at it as Arcanum grows, but unless people can shut down his teleportation he's pretty much safe to leave on his own as long as he has time to do so.

What I'm most interested right now from Arcanum is it's Utility abilities. Arcanum 6: Moderate Conceptual rituals which is extremely potent, then there is crafting which at it's best can make artifacts. Arcanum 7: we can make longevity potions, armor that gives potent buffs and we can make Artifacts on the level of Athame. Arcanum 8: can start working on Brass Cube, make ammo that can pretty much effect most things, make Wizards and give Enrolled cantrips (become Patron), transhuman modifications are also possible.

So any level of Arcanum that we are going to grab is going to be insanely useful and have tons of nice things. Conceptual Rituals can pretty much be used for anything. Crafting is great to have since everyone could use good gear. Arcanum 8's transhuman modifications is useful and great for minions, as well as being a point where Arcane Induction will likely get a huge powerboost.

Birdsie said:
Arcane Foci

Devoted (Sword)
// 1 - Grants an effective .1 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. Efficiency and 'effect rating' of aerokinesis, electrokinesis, and similar spells increase by about 10%. Enhances raw intellect by about 35% of a deviation. Can summon Djinni. Around .25 Aspect Levels of bonus to antimagic and .05 to affecting non-magical Enrollment powers.
// 2 - Grants an effective .2 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. Efficiency and 'effect rating' of aerokinesis, electrokinesis and similar spells increase by about 20%. Enhances raw intellect by about 50% of a deviation. Around .4 Aspect Levels of bonus to antimagic and .1 to affecting non-magical Enrollment powers. Improves offense slightly.
// 3 - Grants an effective .3 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. Enhances raw intellect by about 66% of a deviation. Around .6 Aspect Levels of bonus to antimagic, and .1 to affecting non-magical Enrollment powers. Improves offense and metamagic capabilities slightly.

Devoted (Wand)
// 1 - Grants an effective .1 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. Gain +1.25 Aspect Levels of effective power, swiftly 'burning away' as the enhanced power is used up; can preserve power for later with mild focus, but it wants to be spent. Can summon Ifrit. +10% to power of relevant Thematic flame magics.
// 2 - Grants an effective .2 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. Gain +1.6 Aspect Levels of effective power that burns away in a similar fashion. +15% to power of flame magics instead.
// 3 - Grants an effective .3 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. Gain +1.8 Aspect Levels of effective power [...]. +20% to power of flame magics.

Devoted (Cup)
// 1 - Grants an effective .1 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. +.5 Aspect Levels to potion creation and alchemy as well as transmutative or transformative spells. Can summon Marids. Enhanced but variable effect rating when using hydrokinetic spells. Slightly improve Will regeneration (+10 per turn.)
// 2 - Grants an effective .2 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. +.75 Aspect Levels to potion creation, alchemy, transmutative, transformative, etc,. effects. Further enhancement of hydrokinetic spells, can now affect and create ice and steam as well. Improve Will regeneration (+15 per turn.)
// 3 - Grants an effective .3 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. +1 Aspect Level to all of the things mentioned above. Even further enhancement [...]. Improve Will regeneration (+20 per turn.) Slightly discount a single option costing Will per month.

Devoted (Pentacle)
// 1 - Grants an effective .1 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. +.25 Aspect Levels to terrakinesis and ferrokinesis. +.5 to creation of magical artifacts, especially ones incorporating solid or earthly elements, including the manufacture of Golems. Can affect matter and the material world to a greater extent. Can isekai people. Slightly enhanced durability, stamina, endurance, health, and coordination.
// 2 - Grants an effective .2 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. +.5 Aspect Levels to terrakinesis and ferrokinesis. +.75 to creative crafting magics concerning solid and earthly elements. +.2 to bending space and creating spatial oubliettes within the world. Moderately enhanced durability and other physical aspects.
// 3 - Grants an effective .3 Levels of Arcanum in applicable areas. +.75 Aspect Levels to terrakinesis and ferrokinesis. +1 to creative crafting magics concerning solid and earthly elements. +.4 to bending space and creating spatial oubliettes within the world. Further enhanced durability and other physical aspects, now further scaling with workings made, even if they no longer exist.
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Sword was something I was only slightly interested initially but the intelligence boost is making it look.
Wand looks like it would have a lot of raw power but isn't something I'm really interested in.
Cup's Willpower regeneration looks really nice and the ability to become a Drug Lord is pretty hilarious.
Pentacle's crafting boosts and physical boosts seem like they'd be really useful to have

All in all I'm a lot more open to getting a Devotion now.
 
[X] Simple and Good Part II
[X] King of Winter

I'll approval vote for this. Connections 9 starts getting into some of the more absurd applications of it (sharing powers with enrolled). The absurd will generation lets us comfortably focus on remedials without missing out on content. We'd be making 67.5 will each turn, meaning even if we did X3 remedials we'd be earning 22.5 extra. Not even getting into coffee jello usage, which will be much easier to create with cups I'm sure. Good build.
 
[X] Simple and Good Part II
[X] King of Winter

I really don't like how inefficient it is on eldritch because I'm sure I'll heavily heavily regret it later but I'll approval vote.
 
There is always the possibility of coming back to this place next year right? So we can still get the multiplier to eldrich exp later if we come back here and do some rituals later in this world likely with some plants that grow naturally here? Long way away but there is at least the possibility to grow stronger in eldrich that is garenteed later in the quest
[X] King of Winter
Edit: there is also nothing eldrich really gives us besides an improved physical body unless ther is also the increase to spell casting reserve that was included with the original description and I just missed it?
 
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I would be happy with be water or king of winter. I will say I am more partial towards king of winter since this is the choice which will let us make competent slav-errr companions that will do stuff for us.
 
[X] Be Water, My Friend
[X] King of Winter

Somewhat greedy to go both this far into Will generation, but 60+ a turn is just too tempting. Sol, if he was given willpower on par with the average human being, is apparently comparable to the Metaphysician. Perhaps that's not within reach via SC alone, but with sufficient Exploration XP and Will regeneration, we could easily achieve the next best thing, particularly if we manage to mitigate our boy's weakness to Fate, and the despair he's been suffering.
 
Lealope said:
[X] Be Water, My Friend
[X] King of Winter

Somewhat greedy to go both this far into Will generation, but 60+ a turn is just too tempting. Sol, if he was given willpower on par with the average human being, is apparently comparable to the Metaphysician. Perhaps that's not within reach via SC alone, but with sufficient Exploration XP and Will regeneration, we could easily achieve the next best thing, particularly if we manage to mitigate our boy's weakness to Fate, and the despair he's been suffering.
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I feel we'll probably get sc reduction for the will problem efb's mind you they'll still probably cost a fuck ton. Also birdsie actually said the first efb was enough to make us a near equal to the metaphysician and apparently when asked later it gets us to subhuman willpower. Another efb on top of that would get rid of the willpower mechanic entirely. It might also mean we've actually straight up surpassed the metaphysician or something though.
 
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