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The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

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Warkeymon said:
You'd need to divide the value of dice by five to get their per year price.
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that...seems very counter intuitive, not to mention heavily warping the values of the initial trade *and* then the 5 year trade...

EVA-Saiyajin said:
@argenten

I have a proposition. We can go for plans that aren't sustainable in the long term to really make our bang for our buck.

I propose we reduce the initial silver expenditure so that we can put, say, ten a year into the five year plan. That will make out net gain significantly higher for what we purchase from it. Especially if we want to buy more dice.
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I'm leery about doing that unless we can concretely work out how we will be changing it and what we will be getting more of when because right now the plan works and works well for getting what we need
 
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@Warkeymon & @argenten This is my math on argentens 5 year plan. Please confirm if this checks out

--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC) x5 = 50
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC) x5 = 300
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC) x 5 = 3000 SC
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000)
Total Cost= 5,670 = 8350

--Buy
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC) x5 = 50 SC
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC x 5 = 50 SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC) x 5 = 200 SC
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC) x 5 = 1050 SC
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC)
Total cost: 5,670 = 6 750 SC


If this math is correct, we can follow argenten's plan by spending lots of silver we are not using but still satisfying those who do not want to spend the Runesmith die.
 
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Pancake33 said:
@Warkeymon & @argenten This is my math on argentens 5 year plan. Please confirm if this checks out

--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC) x5 = 50
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC) x5 = 300
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC) x 5 = 3000 SC
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000)
Total Cost= 5,670 = 8350

--Buy
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC) x5 = 50 SC
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC x 5 = 50 SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC) x 5 = 200 SC
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC) x 5 = 1050 SC
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC)
Total cost: 5,670 = 6 750 SC
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it does not, because apparently we have to divide to get what the price is per year for the 5 year plan...

ALso those numbers are out of date and I am not sure why you're still using them.


AND those are from the initial barter, not the 5 year plan.
 
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Pancake33 said:
@Warkeymon & @argenten This is my math on argentens 5 year plan. Please confirm if this checks out

--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC) x5 = 50
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC) x5 = 300
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC) x 5 = 3000 SC
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000)
Total Cost= 5,670 = 8350

--Buy
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC) x5 = 50 SC
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC x 5 = 50 SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC) x 5 = 200 SC
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC) x 5 = 1050 SC
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC)
Total cost: 5,670 = 6 750 SC


If this math is correct, we can follow argenten's plan by spending lots of silver we are not using but still satisfying those who do not want to spend the Runesmith die.
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That's correct working out wise. On the numbers of the actual plan I don't know. I've not read it.
 
argenten said:
it does not, because apparently we have to divide to get what the price is per year for the 5 year plan...

ALso those numbers are out of date and I am not sure why you're still using them.


AND those are from the initial barter, not the 5 year plan.
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Only the price of dice need dividing by five. The price listed is the price for the whole five years. You've worked out a price per year so the price of a dice per year is the total price divided by five.

Resources, e.g. grain are listed as price per item. That same price can be used for both bits of the plan.
 
argenten said:
it does not, because apparently we have to divide to get what the price is per year for the 5 year plan...
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I just multiplied the values per year instead of dividing the values per 5 year. It's the same math but would look like this:
--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC)
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC)
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000) / 5 = 1000SC
Total Cost= 5,670 = 1570 SC per year x 5 = 8350 SC

--Buy
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC)
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC)
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC) / 5 = 480 SC
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC / 5 = 240 SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC) /5 = 360 SC
Total cost: 5,670 = 1350 SC per year x5 = 6750 SC
 
Pancake33 said:
I just multiplied the values per year instead of dividing the values per 5 year. It's the same math but would look like this:
--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC)
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC)
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000) / 5 = 1000SC
Total Cost= 5,670 = 1570 SC per year x 5 = 8350 SC

--Buy
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC)
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC)
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC) / 5 = 480 SC
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC / 5 = 240 SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC) /5 = 360 SC
Total cost: 5,670 = 1350 SC per year x5 = 6750 SC
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And again...the numbers you are quoting are from the *initial barter part of the plan, i have an initial barter *AND* a 5 year plan aspect both.

Warkeymon said:
Only the price of dice need dividing by five. The price listed is the price for the whole five years. You've worked out a price per year so the price of a dice per year is the total price divided by five.

Resources, e.g. grain are listed as price per item. That same price can be used for both bits of the plan.
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Okay, so I only need to multiply the resources by 5 to catch them up to the dice part so they are all on the same (this is what we will be selling for 5 years) line? I just want to make sure before I go editing anything in my plan.
 
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Warkeymon said:
The method used here also works out.

Divide dice values by five to get per year.
Or multiply everything else by five to get total.
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Except that what I am proposing for the initial barter is *only* for the initial barter, ergo, it is not designed to be done for the 5 years, that's why I have 2 plans.

-[] Write-In your immediate barter.
--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC (48=96SC)
---Dawi Ale 1=10SC (52= 520SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (21= 4200SC)
--- Coal 10=1SC (30=3SC)
total SC= 4,819

--Buy
---Noldor Grain 1=2SC (2=4SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (50=50SC)
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (50=200SC)
--- Steel Ingots 1=50SC (49= 2,450SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (15=15SC)
--- Noldor Gems 1=700SC (3=2,100SC)
Total Cost= 4,819

net result: Even 0

-[] Write-In your five year testing agreement.
--Sell
--- Goat Meat 1=1SC (1=1SC)
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC)
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC)
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000)
--- Coal 10=1SC (10=1SC)
Total Cost= 5,672

--Buy
--- Noldor Grain 1=2SC (1=2SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC)
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC)
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC)
Total cost: 5,672

Net Result: even 0.

Underlined is the initial barter and one time deal.

Boldened is the five year plan that is meant to test their reliability.
 
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argenten said:
Except that what I am proposing for the initial barter is *only* for the initial barter, ergo, it is not designed to be done for the 5 years, that's why I have 2 plans.
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Right so do it to the 5 year plan and you'll get the value of the 5 year plan. There can't be dice in the barter so there's no need to match up the dice values to resource values for the barter plan.
 
argenten said:
Except that what I am proposing for the initial barter is *only* for the initial barter, ergo, it is not designed to be done for the 5 years, that's why I have 2 plans.

-[] Write-In your immediate barter.
--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC (48=96SC)
---Dawi Ale 1=10SC (52= 520SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (21= 4200SC)
--- Coal 10=1SC (30=3SC)
total SC= 4,819

--Buy
---Noldor Grain 1=2SC (2=4SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (50=50SC)
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (50=200SC)
--- Steel Ingots 1=50SC (49= 2,450SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (15=15SC)
--- Noldor Gems 1=700SC (3=2,100SC)
Total Cost= 4,819

net result: Even 0

-[] Write-In your five year testing agreement.
--Sell
--- Goat Meat 1=1SC (1=1SC)
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC)
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (3=600SC)
--- Rhunrikki Die 1=5000SC (1=5000)
--- Coal 10=1SC (10=1SC)
Total Cost= 5,672

--Buy
--- Noldor Grain 1=2SC (1=2SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (10=10SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC)
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC)
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC)
Total cost: 5,672

Net Result: even 0.

Underlined is the initial barter and one time deal.

Boldened is the five year plan that is meant to test their reliability.
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Leave the underlined part as it is.

In the bold part you need to multiply SC by 5 for any resources
 
Warkeymon said:
Right so do it to the 5 year plan and you'll get the value of the 5 year plan. There can't be dice in the barter so there's no need to match up the dice values to resource values.
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Right, so again, i might have to multiply the recources by 5 but the math will still check out, and for the barter, there's no reason to because it's a one time payment and thus the whole 'you're selling more than you're getting is moot because "its one turn" as well as pancake consistently quoting old and out of date numbers that don't include the coal or noldor grain or other adjustments I've.

They've literally been so far beyond barking up the wrong tree they're in a different forest.
 
argenten said:
Right, so again, i might have to multiply the recources by 5 but the math will still check out, and for the barter, there's no reason to because it's a one time payment and thus the whole 'you're selling more than you're getting is moot because "its one turn" as well as pancake consistently quoting old and out of date numbers that don't include the coal or noldor grain or other adjustments I've.

They've literally been so far beyond barking up the wrong tree they're in a different forest.
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If you multiply the resources by five it changes the value of the buy vs sell because you aren't multiplying everything by five just the resources.
 
But the math for the 5 year plan doesn't check out if you multiply resources by 5 but leave the dice alone.

I am not arguing about what's supposed to be in the plan. I am just saying you got the math wrong and we will get a lot more SC for the things we are selling.
 
@argenten I am sorry if you feel that I was confrontational. I was just trying to get your math correct to try to get your plan more approval from folks who didn't want to sell the rune smith dice.
 
I have constructed a plan that will get even more without spending the Runelord dice. It is, admittedly, contingent on changing the plan going forward after the five years are up. Ways to have our cake and eat it as far as making use of our Runelord. However I'm still fine with Argenten's plan winning and will be voting for it too. His math allowed me to even make my plans.

[X] Plan a little less now, little more later
-[X] Write-In your immediate barter.
--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC (48=96SC)
---Dawi Ale 1=10SC (62= 620SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (10= 2000SC)
--- Coal 10=1SC (30=3SC)
total SC= 2,719

--Buy
---Noldor Grain 1=2SC (2=4SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (50=50SC)
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (50=200SC)
--- Steel Ingots 1=50SC (49= 2,450SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (15=15SC)
Total Cost= 2,719

net result: Even 0

-[X] Write-In your five year testing agreement.
--Sell
--- Goat Meat 1=1SC (1=1SC) x5 = 5(5SC)
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC) x 5 = 25(50SC)
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC) x 5 = 30(300SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (10=2000SC) x 5 = 50(10,000SC)
--- Coal 10=1SC (10=1SC) x5=50(5SC)
Total Cost= 10,405

--Buy
--- Noldor Grain 1=2SC (4=8SC) x5 =5(40SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (13=13SC) x5 =65(65SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC) x5 =50(50SC)
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC) x5=50(200SC)
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (21=210SC) x5 =105(1050SC)
--- Noldor Gems 1=700SC x5 = 5(3500SC)
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (3=2,400SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (3=1,200SC)
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (3=1,800SC)

Total cost= 10,405



A second plan is here, if you prefer more dice over Noldor gems.

[X] Plan a little less now, little more later for Dice!
--Sell
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC (48=96SC)
---Dawi Ale 1=10SC (62= 620SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (10= 2000SC)
--- Coal 10=1SC (30=3SC)
total SC= 2,719

--Buy
---Noldor Grain 1=2SC (2=4SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (50=50SC)
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (50=200SC)
--- Steel Ingots 1=50SC (49= 2,450SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (15=15SC)
Total Cost= 2,719

net result: Even 0

-[X] Write-In your five year testing agreement.
--Sell
--- Goat Meat 1=1SC (1=1SC) x5 = 5(5SC)
--- Ankor Grain 1=2SC 5=10SC) x 5 = 25(50SC)
--- Dawi Ale 1=10SC (6=60SC) x 5 = 30(300SC)
--- Silver Ingots 1=200SC (10=2000SC) x 5 = 50(10,000SC)
--- Coal 10=1SC (10=1SC) x5=50(5SC)
Total Cost= 10,405

--Buy
--- Noldor Grain 1=2SC (4=8SC) x5 =5(40SC)
--- Wood 1=1SC (13=13SC) x5 =65(65SC)
--- Noldor Fruit 1=1SC (10=10SC) x5 =50(50SC)
--- Noldor Vegetables 1=4SC (10=40SC) x5=50(200SC)
--- Noldor Wine 1=10SC (23=230SC) x5 =105(1150SC)
--- Artisan Die 1=800SC (5=4,000SC)
--- Warsmith Die 1=400SC (6=2,400SC)
--- Farmer Die 1=600SC (4=2,400SC)

Total cost= 10,405


[X]Plan: Let's Make A Deal

[X] Write-In your plan/offer for Gisilhari and his Royal Huskarls
"Ten years is not such a long time for the Dawi young King. We will guest you here in a surface hall for you and your Huscarls and even train them if you will accept the offer. For there are few that know the secrets to Urk slaying better than the Dawi, and we have long experience training Umgi. It will be hard, and it will be punishing. But I can assure you manling, that when you are of age by the measure of your people, you will be able to leave Karak Drekfurt with head held high and a warhost worthy of the name. If you and yours would earn further aid, your throng could do well to aid us in meeting other kingdoms of your people, so that we might trade and find common cause with them. You can fight beside us against any attack, and those that do, will be girded in proper Dawi Steel and bear arms of the same. You will not find better I am confident, even if you can find its match. For now, rest, and know that vengeance will be yours in a decade's time. I will also see to it that you are introduced to the Noldor and Lord Elrond their ruler. Perhaps he can be of further aid to you."
 
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Plan had been adjusted for the increase in resources, got us the max Noldur grain since we'll be having more guests and having more variety of grain will work. got us some more wine for our guests and trade, and got us +1 farmer and +1 artisan dice so we'll have even more to go on.

In the future QM i would strongly suggest having everything at a 1 year price but mark the things like the dice with *may only be used for 5 year plans

So that we'd be able to just make plans per year and multiply them by 5 and keep things simple, having them be set to two different standards like they are now just complicated things unnecessarily
 
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argenten said:
Plan had been adjusted for the increase in resources, got us the max Noldur grain since we'll be having more guests and having more variety of grain will work. got us some more wine for our guests and trade, and got us +1 farmer and +1 artisan dice so we'll have even more to go on.
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Cool, thanks!

On a different topic we really benefit from enriching the Eotheod. Umgi killing off the Urks who would otherwise spill out of Gundabad without risking our own lives? That's a good deal even without making an actual friend and ally.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Cool, thanks!

On a different topic we really benefit from enriching the Eotheod. Umgi killing off the Urks who would otherwise spill out of Gundabad without risking our own lives? That's a good deal even without making an actual friend and ally.
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Pretty much, plus, the more we get from the Noldor, the more we can trade away directly, since it would allow merchants to come to our market to get Elvish goods without having to find rivendell, which I imagine isn't easy or possible for everyone, so that will only do our reputation some good.

Plus, the peoples of Arda are *very* big on hospitality, as per Tolkien's lifting from ancient scandinavian culture and lore, so having more food and drink to offer guests for variety will be a strong prestige move for us.

and yeah, even if it's just enlightened self-interest, helping the Eotheod will make things better, as well as get us valuable allies. Orks might have Warg cavalry but they are not nearly as numerous as the orks themselves so we'd have a strong advantage with the breeding numbers and speed of horses for our human cavalry allies.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Knew the cultures he lifted a lot of stuff from, didn't know that. Good point.
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If you look at the Hobbit for example, unless the Company were actively seen as a threat/trouble, like when they had basically looked like desperate bandits to the wood elves in the books, if you were someone's guest, the host was always offering proper hospitality, food, drink, and so on. The more varied the table, the more it was seen as a sign of wealth, prestige, and generosity. Even Beorn, he had a lot of different kinds of foods to offer after he realized that Gandalf had been clever about bringing in the dwarves a few at a time.

In the Lord of the Rings, it was the same again, each time someone was a *guest* it was a significant thing and there'd always be some attention to what was served and how varied it was.
 
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