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The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)

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Skitzyfrenic said:
That's true.

It's also true, and please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm 98% sure that it's true the Thranduil rules over the largest and mightiest (Though still shrinking as Dol Guldur used to be a tower of his kingdom) still extant Elven kingdom which remains mighty well into the Fourth Age. For all of it's isolation, it's still a very nice kingdom too.
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Technically yes. But he seems to allow for Man to settle in his forests as well. Of course, he gave up a third of it to Celeborn after the War of the Ring and the middle half entirely to the Beornings and Woodsmen, all he had was the far north.

I'll have to look up the bit about Dol Guldur.

Edit: Yep, more than that actually, the original capital.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Technically yes. But he seems to allow for Man to settle in his forests as well. Of course, he gave up a third of it to Celeborn after the War of the Ring and the middle half entirely to the Beornings and Woodsmen, all he had was the far north.

I'll have to look up the bit about Dol Guldur.

Edit: Yep, more than that actually, the original capital.
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Long before the War of the Alliance, Oropher, King of the Silvan Elves east of Anduin, being
disturbed by rumours of the rising power of Sauron, had left their ancient dwellings about Amon Lanc,
across the river from their kin in Lórien. Three times he had moved northwards, and at the end of the
Second Age he dwelt in the western glens of the Emyn Duir, and his numerous people lived and roamed
in the woods and vales westward as far as Anduin, north of the ancient Dwarf-Road (Men-i-Naugrim). He
had joined the Alliance, but was slain in the assault upon the Gates of Mordor. Thranduil his son had
returned with the remnant of the army of the Silvan Elves in the year before Isildur's march.
The Emyn Duir (Dark Mountains) were a group of high hills in the north-east of the Forest, so called
because dense fir-woods grew upon their slopes; but they were not yet of evil name. In later days when
the shadow of Sauron spread through Greenwood the Great, and changed its name from Eryn Galen to
Taur-nu-Fuin (translated Mirkwood), the Emyn Duir became a haunt of many of his most evil creatures,
and were called Emyn-nu-Fuin, the Mountains of Mirkwood. [Author's note.] - On Oropher see Appendix
B to "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn;" in one of the passages there cited Oropher's retreat
northwards within the Greenwood is ascribed to his desire to move out of range of the Dwarves of
Khazad-dûm and of Celeborn and Galadriel in Lórien.
 
Murazor said:
Long before the War of the Alliance, Oropher, King of the Silvan Elves east of Anduin, being
disturbed by rumours of the rising power of Sauron, had left their ancient dwellings about Amon Lanc,
across the river from their kin in Lórien. Three times he had moved northwards, and at the end of the
Second Age he dwelt in the western glens of the Emyn Duir, and his numerous people lived and roamed
in the woods and vales westward as far as Anduin, north of the ancient Dwarf-Road (Men-i-Naugrim). He
had joined the Alliance, but was slain in the assault upon the Gates of Mordor. Thranduil his son had
returned with the remnant of the army of the Silvan Elves in the year before Isildur's march.
The Emyn Duir (Dark Mountains) were a group of high hills in the north-east of the Forest, so called
because dense fir-woods grew upon their slopes; but they were not yet of evil name. In later days when
the shadow of Sauron spread through Greenwood the Great, and changed its name from Eryn Galen to
Taur-nu-Fuin (translated Mirkwood), the Emyn Duir became a haunt of many of his most evil creatures,
and were called Emyn-nu-Fuin, the Mountains of Mirkwood. [Author's note.] - On Oropher see Appendix
B to "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn;" in one of the passages there cited Oropher's retreat
northwards within the Greenwood is ascribed to his desire to move out of range of the Dwarves of
Khazad-dûm and of Celeborn and Galadriel in Lórien.
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Ahh, so it was not abandoned from grief or an attempt to reinvigorate themselves after the death of their king with a new capital.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Ahh, so it was not abandoned from grief or an attempt to reinvigorate themselves after the death of their king with a new capital.
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*waves hand*

Oropher had come among them with only a handful of Sindar, and they were soon merged with the Silvan Elves, adopting their language and taking names of Silvan form and style. This they did deliberately; for they (and other similar adventurers forgotten in the legends or only briefly named) came from Doriath after its ruin and had no desire to leave Middle-earth, nor to be merged with the other Sindar of Beleriand, dominated by the Noldorin Exiles for whom the folk of Doriath had no great love. They wished indeed to become Silvan folk and to return, as they said, to the simple life natural to the Elves before the invitation of the Valar had disturbed it.
[...]
The Silvan Elves hid themselves in woodland fastnesses beyond the Misty Mountains, and became small and scattered people, hardly to be distinguished from Avari; but they still remembered that they were in origin Eldar, members of the Third Clan, and they welcomed those of the Noldor and especially the Sindar who did not pass over the Sea but migrated eastward [i.e. at the beginning of the Second Age]. Under the leadership of these they became again ordered folk and increased in wisdom. Thranduil father of Legolas of the Nine Walkers was Sindarin, and that tongue was used in his house, though not by all his folk

This is from a couple of different drafts and there are contradictions, but the picture outlined suggests that Oropher may have had a grudge against the dwarves and the noldor for their respective roles in the destruction of Doriath and that he made a serious attempt to undo the elven advances of the First Age out of a desire for a more primitive life.

Then, when he joined the Last Alliance, the backwardness of his people cost them terribly, he died, Thranduil became king and over the centuries of the Third Age he seems to have walked back his father's policies.
 
Murazor said:
*waves hand*

Oropher had come among them with only a handful of Sindar, and they were soon merged with the Silvan Elves, adopting their language and taking names of Silvan form and style. This they did deliberately; for they (and other similar adventurers forgotten in the legends or only briefly named) came from Doriath after its ruin and had no desire to leave Middle-earth, nor to be merged with the other Sindar of Beleriand, dominated by the Noldorin Exiles for whom the folk of Doriath had no great love. They wished indeed to become Silvan folk and to return, as they said, to the simple life natural to the Elves before the invitation of the Valar had disturbed it.
[...]
The Silvan Elves hid themselves in woodland fastnesses beyond the Misty Mountains, and became small and scattered people, hardly to be distinguished from Avari; but they still remembered that they were in origin Eldar, members of the Third Clan, and they welcomed those of the Noldor and especially the Sindar who did not pass over the Sea but migrated eastward [i.e. at the beginning of the Second Age]. Under the leadership of these they became again ordered folk and increased in wisdom. Thranduil father of Legolas of the Nine Walkers was Sindarin, and that tongue was used in his house, though not by all his folk

This is from a couple of different drafts and there are contradictions, but the picture outlined suggests that Oropher may have had a grudge against the dwarves and the noldor for their respective roles in the destruction of Doriath and that he made a serious attempt to undo the elven advances of the First Age out of a desire for a more primitive life.

Then, when he joined the Last Alliance, the backwardness of his people cost them terribly, he died, Thranduil became king and over the centuries of the Third Age he seems to have walked back his father's policies.
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So Thranduil was probably driven to do what he did, from the extreme losses (and idiocy, if Oropher really did break ranks against the plan and charged head on) in the War of the Last Alliance.

Really the only issue in his character is his decision to threaten Thorin's company for the treasure after he refused to part with a portion of it. Though admittedly they did have more than they needed and he might have been partially driven to help Esgaroth from the damage Smaug (who the Dwarves awoke) inflicted, and couldn't exactly be a good ruler if he didn't take a piece of the pie for his own people too.

Of course if he didn't want the treasure, we wouldn't know he'd definitely have at least something to gain, if not interest, from trade.

Edit: So logically Thranduil's halls would have been built after Oropher's death, but they had settled the area already @Murazor ?
 
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Yeah,; was joking about the elgi thing. Just read the quest for the first time yesterday. Doesn't need to be a rune of balance either, just some sort of anti-corruption measure, if posssible. Because a random runesmith from a minor hold can't be exxpected to match the greatest elven craftman who ever lived, but we might be able to help.
 
Phrux said:
Yeah,; was joking about the elgi thing. Just read the quest for the first time yesterday. Doesn't need to be a rune of balance either, just some sort of anti-corruption measure, if posssible. Because a random runesmith from a minor hold can't be exxpected to match the greatest elven craftman who ever lived, but we might be able to help.
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Yeah, sadly the rings have been taken out as options completely. Presumably because it's too small and we're not of an elder day when such was possible.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Of course if he didn't want the treasure, we wouldn't know he'd definitely have at least something to gain, if not interest, from trade.
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Well...

If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old. His people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth. All this was well known to every dwarf, though Thorin's family had had nothing to do with the old quarrel I have spoken of.

At the same time, wood elves are not dickish towards prisoners.

Then the elves put thongs on him (Thorin) and shut him in one of the inmost caves with strong wooden doors, and left him. They gave him food and drink, plenty of both, if not very fine; for Wood-elves were not goblins and were reasonably well-behaved even to their worst enemies, when they captured them. The giant spiders were the only living things that they had no mercy upon.

There is the thing in which he went to help the people of Laketown, rather than heading for the Lonely Mountain when he thought that the treasure was available for the taking.

So it was that Bard's messengers found him now marching with many spearmen and bowmen; and crows were gathered thick, above him, for they thought that war was awakening again, such as had not been in those parts for a long age. But the king, when he received the prayers of Bard, had pity, for he was the lord of a good and kindly people; so turning his march, which had at first been direct towards the Mountain, he hastened now down the river to the Long Lake. He had not boats or rafts enough for his host, and they were forced to go the slower way by foot, but great store of goods he sent ahead by water.

And finally when Bard suggested attacking Thorin's party in the Lonely Mountain, Thranduil suggested time in the hopes of reaching some manner of compromise.

But the elvenking said: "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold. The dwarves cannot press us, unless we will, or do anything that we cannot mark. Let us hope still for something that will bring reconciliation. Our advantage in numbers will be enough, if in the end it must come to unhappy blows."

Thranduil is obviously a less than perfect figure, but he is certainly not the racist turbodick portrayed in the Hobbit movies. Odds of the guy causing a War of the Beard scale grudge are very low.
 
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View: https://youtu.be/sK6UAdmAHcQ
A video on the economy of the elfes (if the link works).
Here we see that Thranduil kinda needs more money since his people need to buy fod and can only offer to work or to pay for it with precious metals, (or toll the river).
Metals that they do not mine, I think if we were to offer Silver to him he would gladly sent mercenary to us, after all he sent an army to try to move a supposedly unclaimed dragon hoard, so as long as we pay him first he should be fine with it.
Also Murazor post did brougth up that Thranduil likes Silver in particular, and we are making lots of Silver.
 
There's a difference between silver and the wealth of Erebor…and he sent the army because, A., unholy amount of wealth needs a lot of hands and B. need to be able to protect the endeavor from others with the same idea. It wasn't any sort of massive overreaction.

In any event I take such analyses with a grain of salt in quests because it's up to the GM what interpretation is followed.

Having said all that I have been considering how much more our silver might be worth in SC to the elves of Greenwood, and potential stuff.
 
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I am working on a longer Omake called Tales of Karak Drekfut with accompanying Artwork
It's a series of short stories, each focusing on different characters within the hold.

1) Song of the Trees

It Follows the story of Elder Drindut Ironplough and her fascination watching the Noldor sing a great Orchard into bloom in but a single year. She felt shame at her clan's breach in hospitality and was terribly disappointed when the Noldor left. She is determined to learn the nurturing songs that can coax plants into growing tall and strong and wishes to regain honor for her clan.

2) Pride of the Eotheod

One of the few Eotheod apprentices not to quit under the exacting standards of Clan Shatterspear is called to a meeting with clan Elder Voddor. Apprentice mason Folmund is one of the few Umgi that survived under the clan's grueling standards, Voddor wishes to know why so many of the Eotheod quit.
Folmund explains that the Umgi are unmotivated, they fear extra work and suggests that the Eotheod need to know why the training is for the good of their families, failing that extra rations and a less intense workload would help, as the Umgi cannot keep up with Dawi stamina.

3) Two Plotting Shipwrights

Gregdun Swiftcarver and Dwordustir Glintgear plot in darkness to design the holds first true Dawi ship. A fine trade ship that combines the best parts of Noldor and Dawi design. Both were disappointed when their prospective clans chose to focus on weapon-making rather than ship and engine design. Despite the clan's choices, their passion for sailing has not diminished, they will not be denied.

4) A Homely Brew

Korin Bronzeplait is concerned by a radical new brew being bandied around by some of the beardling's. They tampered with the clan's traditional recipe while brewing in hidden non-clan-approved barrels. It was time for a reckoning to reel in these reckless youths.
 
I like it all @Moneris !

In my opinion one of the best things for omakes is not to reach for specific things but to build up and on the world the GM has created, and these all sound like they'd do so quite well.
 
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