- Location
- Utrecht
Linn Greatbeard sneaking past them and into the Rhunrikki's workshop.
Yep. 1 or 2 months getting very friendly with a Grudgestone.
The Dawi in Arda (Hiatus)
- Thread starter Warkeymon
- Start date
- Crossover
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Hypothetically speaking, if they didn't, would they be willing to work with others of commensurate ability, or is that a bit far out there?
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- Warkeymon
Legendary smiths of the Golden Age worked with other races of similar skill, so there's precedent and then there's the history that followed that too.
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Do you mean that an argument could be made for and against working with others based on how the Elgi partnership fell apart and mankind is tumultuous, or that further precedent followed after the Golden Age?
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- Warkeymon
The former. The Dawi learnt a lot and made masterpieces with the Elgi like has not been seen since. But the Elgi used Dawi secrets from that time to slaughter hundreds of thousands of Dawi in the War of Vengeance too.
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A real conundrum, it is.
@Warkeymon
How big a first was it for the Dawi to meet an Elf with a beard?
@Warkeymon
How big a first was it for the Dawi to meet an Elf with a beard?
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- Denial
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I've been thinking about military matters, how would people feel about hiring mercenaries to help us out when we retake Framsburg? I'm not sure whether they'd go for it but we might be able to use our silver to hire some shifters to fight alongside us, or if any of the lore buffs know of any other human polities that would likely be willing to hire out.
I also can't stop thinking of Udrabax. While we certainly can't do anything next turn depending on how long the siege lasts if we have some field artillery and we've retaken Framsburg could we try to negotiate an alliance with the dwarves to relieve the siege? See if there is anyone else we can convince/pay to help as well. Ultimately it is to the entire north's benefit not to let Udrabax fall and grant the goblins another stronghold to operate out of, and together our combined forces could be the hammer to Udrabax's anvil and deal a massive blow. It's just the problem of somehow convincing everyone of that fact and getting them to work together.
I also can't stop thinking of Udrabax. While we certainly can't do anything next turn depending on how long the siege lasts if we have some field artillery and we've retaken Framsburg could we try to negotiate an alliance with the dwarves to relieve the siege? See if there is anyone else we can convince/pay to help as well. Ultimately it is to the entire north's benefit not to let Udrabax fall and grant the goblins another stronghold to operate out of, and together our combined forces could be the hammer to Udrabax's anvil and deal a massive blow. It's just the problem of somehow convincing everyone of that fact and getting them to work together.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
The best sources of mercenaries I can think of at the moment are both in Eriador and Rhovanion. Arnor and the Éothéod have fallen fairly recently, plus there may be something furthen East left of the former Northmen kingdom. Remnants of their militaries must have remained and those, that haven't settled down could have picked up the trade of sellswords. I'm not taking into account any exotic units, such as some Wainriders descendants, a stranded company from Gondor or Rhun. We can also spread the word via the merchants visiting us, that we have a need for warriors and will pay in silver. Maybe even a Dunedain company might find it tempting, since we have good relations with Imladris. A good idea would be to get some Dwarven warriors to join our cause via silver or any other promise. With proper education, they shall return to their holds with tales of Dawi might and will be agents of our culture in the future. With a bit of luck, more of them will come and continue the cycle.
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- USA
The Woodsmen might be willing to throw a host together and come. Unsure about the shifters. But historically the former are friends of the latter, and the latter has poor relations with dwarves and they might be unwilling to make the distinction.
Though the Woodsmen and the Beornings did use to be part of the same Middle Man kingdom as the Eotheod so that's up in the air, tbh. I expect that they might be more inclined to help though, retaking Framsburg and keeping Udrabax in dwarven hands is a much better situation than letting grobi and urk have it.
AFAIK there aren't any real mercenary companies in Arda. Anybody we hire is probably going to be a levee, or a stranded semi-professional company in need of some help anyways, not a real standing professional force. If Dol Guldur wasn't pressing Lothlorien I'd consider asking them. Glorfindel is out with a host, I'm not sure how much of Rivendell's strength that is.
Thranduil is a gigantic asshole, and we could probably get him onside even though his kingdom is pressed hard from the south, if only so he could put the dwarves in his debt.
We haven't formally established relations with any human faction besides the Eotheod. We might be able to score a force from the Dunedain though. Because, for the most part, that faction of the Edain has their heart is the right place, we have mostly good relations with Rivendell, and a load of silver would help their efforts in the west. Gondor is pressed from Mordor right now, but we miiiiiight be able to score some forces from there in exchange for money.
Also @Sertorius has some excellent thoughts/points.
Though the Woodsmen and the Beornings did use to be part of the same Middle Man kingdom as the Eotheod so that's up in the air, tbh. I expect that they might be more inclined to help though, retaking Framsburg and keeping Udrabax in dwarven hands is a much better situation than letting grobi and urk have it.
AFAIK there aren't any real mercenary companies in Arda. Anybody we hire is probably going to be a levee, or a stranded semi-professional company in need of some help anyways, not a real standing professional force. If Dol Guldur wasn't pressing Lothlorien I'd consider asking them. Glorfindel is out with a host, I'm not sure how much of Rivendell's strength that is.
Thranduil is a gigantic asshole, and we could probably get him onside even though his kingdom is pressed hard from the south, if only so he could put the dwarves in his debt.
We haven't formally established relations with any human faction besides the Eotheod. We might be able to score a force from the Dunedain though. Because, for the most part, that faction of the Edain has their heart is the right place, we have mostly good relations with Rivendell, and a load of silver would help their efforts in the west. Gondor is pressed from Mordor right now, but we miiiiiight be able to score some forces from there in exchange for money.
Also @Sertorius has some excellent thoughts/points.
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I am interested in sending some throngs to make contact with the Beornings and Woodsmen.
But I'm also quite interested in doing it with Thranduil's folk, but it's tricky because of the ancient grudge with Dwarves after the Nauglamir and I don't know how much of it he and his have inherited it up to this point.
Plus Mirkwood is probably pretty high in danger with Dol Guldur occupied by Sauron.
But I'm also quite interested in doing it with Thranduil's folk, but it's tricky because of the ancient grudge with Dwarves after the Nauglamir and I don't know how much of it he and his have inherited it up to this point.
Plus Mirkwood is probably pretty high in danger with Dol Guldur occupied by Sauron.
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- Utrecht
We just have to get someone to vouch for us.
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So how about next turn sending one group of rangers to check on Udrabax and another to try and get more information about Framsburg. Then sending one throng to meet the Beornings and the last to meet the Woodsmen?
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The Royal Huskarls will likely be useful in meeting one of them, proximity hopefully creating good relations.
I'm of mixed feelings on the others though, what are your goals in paying attention to Udrabax and Framsburg this early?
There is a chance that the longer the siege lasts the more Orcs and Goblins will be drawn away from Framsburg to it I admit, but it might also just encourage those already besieging to stop absent the fell will of one of their masters. Which, admittedly, is far from impossible with Sauron in Dol Guldur.
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I completely forgot about the huskarls, yes send them out too. @Warkeymon Can we split the huskarls between two groups going to meet the beornings and woodsmen?
Framsburg I want more clarity on what is happening, more accurate numbers, knowledge of any movements. We are going to retake it at some point so I want to keep an eye on it until then so we can take advantage of the best time to attack. I also think it would be a good task to give the new rangers some experience.
Udrabax I think it is unwise to leave such a massive force alone without keeping an eye on it. Even if we never interact with them ourselves we want advance warning if they turn in the direction of us or anyone we're interested in.
Framsburg I want more clarity on what is happening, more accurate numbers, knowledge of any movements. We are going to retake it at some point so I want to keep an eye on it until then so we can take advantage of the best time to attack. I also think it would be a good task to give the new rangers some experience.
Udrabax I think it is unwise to leave such a massive force alone without keeping an eye on it. Even if we never interact with them ourselves we want advance warning if they turn in the direction of us or anyone we're interested in.
- Location
- USA
If we re-take Framsburg without King G it could negatively impact his long term reputation amongst his own people as he wasn't a direct personal force in retaking his kingdom. Just as a thought.
Though we would send a Kull or our ranger sub-throng to go and kill all the grobi they can in the east, kinda like we did with the Hargrobi. A bit more than we've been doing. By nipping at the heels of the siege and eating away at Framsburg's forces we might actually pull some forces away (We could theoretically defeat in detail and eat chunks of the Urki host), and still have time to finish the Shield and a battery of field artillery before a serious engagement.
@Warkeymon how long until our Hammerers are ready to go?
Politically, helping the dwarves directly at Urdabax might backfire, given Thain doesn't like us and he might think we're trying to usurp him even more. Even if we explained to him our Great Grudge. And that we aren't stupid enough to let the Urks take yet another Dwarfhold.
Though we would send a Kull or our ranger sub-throng to go and kill all the grobi they can in the east, kinda like we did with the Hargrobi. A bit more than we've been doing. By nipping at the heels of the siege and eating away at Framsburg's forces we might actually pull some forces away (We could theoretically defeat in detail and eat chunks of the Urki host), and still have time to finish the Shield and a battery of field artillery before a serious engagement.
@Warkeymon how long until our Hammerers are ready to go?
Politically, helping the dwarves directly at Urdabax might backfire, given Thain doesn't like us and he might think we're trying to usurp him even more. Even if we explained to him our Great Grudge. And that we aren't stupid enough to let the Urks take yet another Dwarfhold.
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For the record he's 10 as of next turn and he's had some training in commanding military forces. At the very earliest we'd be going turn 21 when he'd be 11 and since he knows when to delegate I'd be okay with handing command of the Eotheod over to him. Of course he'll almost certainly be older. If it's turn 24 he'd be 14 and old enough to fight directly rather than just command.
I don't see any scenario in which we relieve Udrabax that doesn't involve an alliance with the dwarves so I don't think that's a major issue. Since they would likely be by far the larger force it would be more us assisting them in relieving Udrabax.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
Don't be silly. I am yet to see a host listening to the commands of a 11 year old child. No one in his sane mind would ever do such a thing. I believe he has to turn 15 (age of maturity) before officially being capable of independent judgement.
I say we should stay put, build up our armies, invent new weapons and move out when we are ready. The fact, the the young King has to grow up is a factor as well. We have to train for him an Eotheod army, not just his personal guard. This requires more Umgi, if not of Rohirric origin, then at least mercenaries.
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- Warkeymon
It is essentially definitive proof that they aren't Elgi. Since Elgi literally translates to beardless.
The Huskarls have to stay as one group since they only accept leadership from their Captain or their King. Unless you want to assign their King to going out with them and lead a second group.
Apprentice Hammerers take 30 years to be declared Hammerers.
We said we would retake Framsburg after TEN years, as far as I am concerned tryng to retake it even in nine years will be oathbreaking.
I will never support anything like that.
We got a very clear date when we will move to retake Framsburg and when we do so we will take it, not a year later not a year before. Half gamey attempt to me are off, no we assasult Framsburg but not take it play, no we bombard Framsburg kill a lot of orcs and then leave.
I am okay with scouting it from afar.
All points of Sertorious are also correct to me.
For Udrabax I support hiring mercenaries and making some sorte of league with the dwarfs human and elfes, migth I suggest opening another silver mine for it?
Also I do not like to hoard to much money, since wealth attract dragons.
I do not belive Udrabax will ever last long enough to allow us to mount a rescue attempt.
I will never support anything like that.
We got a very clear date when we will move to retake Framsburg and when we do so we will take it, not a year later not a year before. Half gamey attempt to me are off, no we assasult Framsburg but not take it play, no we bombard Framsburg kill a lot of orcs and then leave.
I am okay with scouting it from afar.
All points of Sertorious are also correct to me.
For Udrabax I support hiring mercenaries and making some sorte of league with the dwarfs human and elfes, migth I suggest opening another silver mine for it?
Also I do not like to hoard to much money, since wealth attract dragons.
I do not belive Udrabax will ever last long enough to allow us to mount a rescue attempt.
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The Eotheod will never consent to helping Urdrabax.
And I find it difficult to believe a Dwarf Hall would not last for a very long time when not attacked from within by a Valarauka.
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This is a medievalish society, they have different tolerances for what is considered a kid especially when it comes to royalty and especially when his orders are more "captain do this" and then leaving it up to the captain rather than trying to directly lead.
That said I would ideally like to wait the whole 10 years but I also want to be ready if something does happen we can take advantage of.
He has learnt about Oaths, loyalty and grudges, he has learnt to delegate and lead a throng but he still needs to learn personal combat, History, diplomacy (and a few other subjects that have escaped my mind)
As a coming of age present we should give him armor and weapons fit for a umgi king, so that he may lead his men with pride. (though perhaps not overly heavy, he is not a heavily armored European Knight)
As a coming of age present we should give him armor and weapons fit for a umgi king, so that he may lead his men with pride. (though perhaps not overly heavy, he is not a heavily armored European Knight)