Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC)
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Well that's incredibly gory, but hopefully also kinda cathartic.
Wow, he grossed out the witch. Even the witchtinces didn't seem interested anymore after that display.
I feel ya Sayaka. There's no satisfaction in reducing something into red paste if they just get back up without even commenting on the pain.
Have I recently mentioned how much I like your Sayaka? She's got a way with words.
Yeah that's a shame, but you knew it was a long shot anyway.
Of course she's interested, she's still being eaten up by guilt.
Yeah, hearing she's even less of a person then she thought she was, and as a reminder she thinks she's a zombie, was not something she was going to respond well too. Nor should she.
Though I'm gonna point out that Kyubey is spouting guesswork and ideas, not facts. He thinks Sayaka and Tira are familiars, but how the novela categorizes them suggests otherwise. Likewise, he doesn't know why there's an extra Sayaka and Tira, just that their witch came from an alt timeline.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if was just saying things that would piss her off in hopes that she'd let some information slip.
Poor girl's emotions really are just chew toy.
Interesting.
Okay.
'Something cracks', at least, implies that her Soul Gem just broke. I was pretty skeptical that her Soul Gem was around, but that much was confirmed at least.
So this has lots of implications. Um. I don't know if I know the words for this.
Trying this out. Ashtaroth's mind can and is dominated by whatever has the most power inside her. This is why our, the readers, perspective doesn't change, but Oktavia gets to be in charge. This would mean that Ashtaroth isn't the witch, she's what's controlling the witch. The witch herself just provides information and the occasional strong urge to do something.
On Oktavia, she was definitely carrying out Sayaka's will, that is turning Kyubey into hamburger. She herself was also mega pissed at Kyubey, and she could use the telepathy network, and could speak. Which I'm sure is only possible because of Ashtaroth, Oktavia is very run of the mill far as Witches are concerned.
And Kyubey was just confused plain old confused, which is nice.
Wow, okay, Okky is just bein all sorts of down on Sayaka, which is herself, according to her. I guess having an external version of yourself you can safely pin all your issues on makes it easier to not be self-loathing?
She doesn't seem to have a problem with Tira, but what happened to Mami is just not something she can handle, weirdly enough.
I can't tell if this is just suicide or an attempt at defiance that will end in a murder-suicide. It's like she wants to exist in a state of constant despair, but only on her terms.
Just said this, but I must say again, I really like this Sayaka. She just such a good kid at heart, even with all the shit that's happened to her.
Again, really can not emotionally face what happened. So weird.
Hmm, so the list is like:
1. Kyubey (Source of damn near all this misery)
2. Ashtaroth (Source of this specific subset of misery)
3. Sayaka herself (The one that ultimately signed herself up for this hell, ignorant of the details and didn't look into them)
4. Homura (Made everything just that little bit worse with the time travel shenanigans)
Good kid. Strong kid. If this situation can get unfucked, she's got one hell of a future in store for her. Hell, even if she's stucks with Ashtaroth forever the future has many possibilities.
I also think she might be getting just a bit of feedback from Oktavia. Sure, it doesn't take a genius to figure out she was trying to kill Ashtaroth, but I got this notion in my head that Sayaka knew why Oktavia was trying to kill her. Something about the reactions, I dunno.
Now this is interesting. As I above, I suspected Sayaka's Soul Gem had cracked. That didn't kill Sayaka, in fact it doesn't seem to have really done anything to her on its own, but her and Oktavia are still linked, and Oktavia very much thinks they're the same person, in a way that, despite having been subsumed, Oktavia and Ashtaroth are not. Maybe it's a difference without a distinction, but I feel there's more to it.
Also I can now see why Ashtaroth could send her Grief back at Tira a while back. If they can handle their own pain, they could inflict it on someone else as a Doppel attack, or it would stun them into unconsciousness.
And man oh man, but Oktavia does not like Sayaka.
Hmm, maybe it's simple. Despite everything that's happened, Sayaka hasn't really given up on herself or her situation. She's pretty fucking miserable, but she's willing to keep trying to improve what she has left. As a witch however, Oktavia is defined by having given up. And that's what she hates about Sayaka, that she's not wallowing in that same despair.
Wow, I've never seen Tira this agitated. This is almost Sayaka like behavior.
I didn't know she could even say that word!
Oh right, yeah. She was really focused on the whole witch thing and not having that happen to her. Yeah, that tracks.
Wacky.
Hmm, my guess would be the accompanying anger, and possibly having a direct target. Sayaka really fucking wanted Kyubey dead.
Hmm. Maybe. They're still a lot better off then before, and the three of you are only learning more and more about how how your underlying systems work, and how they're connected to each other.
But the main thing I'd say, is that worrying never added a day to anyone's life. Problems come up and you solve them. If they can't be solved, mitigate and avoid. Do what you can with what you have. And you do have a few paths forward now. So wake up Sayaka, let her call her parents, then get to work.
Wouldn't that be throwing Kyubey, due to her lack of legs? How would Ashy punt anything without feet? Maybe if she controls Sayaka or Tira?
Yeah, Sayaka isn't screwing around. Just flat-out murder as her first reaction. Any interaction with Mami in this timeline will be interesting.
Maybe not kill but Jubey is proof that it can be changed. Also, another in-character reminder that Kyubey only cares about resource management.
Kyubey is aware of Homura's time travel. On the bright side, it probably found out relatively quickly during Homura's early loops so there shouldn't be much it can do about it.
But Kyubey might use the knowledge that Ashy is back too as a bargaining chip with Homura.
Strange, he should be able to work out Ashy's magical girl identity. He knows how fast she can move, that she hasn't been a Witch for long(due to the low number of "unique" Familiars), and that she had regular interactions with Kyubey.
That should create a pretty short list of candidates.
... I would like to note that this doesn't say, at any point, that Kyubey doesn't know Ashy's magical girl identity. Only that there wasn't a magical girl named Ashtaroth.
Based on Witches that already were insane from the transformation. There are several magical girls that were somewhat sane even afterward due to preparations made before becoming a Witch. Isabeau(somewhat) due to being part Incubator before becoming a Witch and Lapin due to her magical girl power, which she had before becoming a Witch.
Yeah, Isabeau. Whos fault was that again?
Kazumi gets around that issue at the end with a Wish that keeps her from destabilizing. Being subsumed by Novella might get a similar result. And that Ashy's mind is different from other Witches' minds is another point in favor of the "Ashy is the magical girl that created the Witch and then got subsumed by her instead of the Witch of Subsumption itself" theory.
Technically, Isabeau and Kazumi were both Witches.
Ah, Ashy has a reason to visit the Tira of the next timeline as early as possible. Probably after subsuming the Witch version of her, just in case Mami finds her.
So the extra Grief was enough for Oktavia to become more than just a vague dream and become self-aware enough to differentiate herself from the Witch of Subsumption.
Maybe if Ashy had directed the Grief at a different Witch? Or she has to blow up Shemesh to be on the safe side.
Haven't looked in the mirror yet, huh Sayaka?
And the Witch of Subsumption overpowers her again.
...That's a horrible pun based on how Oktavia got defeated this time.
No outlet for the Grief(Shemesh), already full Grief tanks for Ashy, and being inside the Canvas?
Oktavia pretty explicitly refers to Sayaka as herself or her counterpart. She also flat-out states that the Grief that makes her up is Sayaka's and that "giving it back" forced her to de-manifest. She even assumes destroying Ashy would kill her instead of releasing her Grief Seed, implying that she and Sayaka still share a soul. Or whatever the Witch of Subsumption defines as her own sub-souls.
Well, yeah. There is a reason why I always assumed the Witch of Subsumption was its own being, while Ashy is what was left of the magical girl that formed the Witch but got subsumed before she died.
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Kalibrius
God of reflection
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
If your idea of ashtaroth controlling the witch is true........
Mayhaps that's why our dear witch doesn't remember much of the before
Her mind split in twain between her magical self and mundane self
And her mundane self has become a Drosselmeyer, not the nutcracker one but the princess tutu one
Which is bad
Would explain why this is a faux quest though
We the questers are the witch
It just so damn happens we have a backseat driver overidding our autonomy
Also if ashtaroth the entity isn't the mundane self but something else well mayhaps this could shed some light on the mystery
Astarte - Wikipedia
Astaroth - Wikipedia
Astaroth in popular culture - Wikipedia
Astaroth
Astaroth is a Crowned Prince and Great Duke of Hell, who is one of the most prominent demons in the Infernal Council. Astaroth is also the twenty-ninth spirit listed in the Ars Goetia. He is an exceptionally powerful Duke of Hell assisted by four demons: Aamon, Barbatos, Rashaverak and Pruflas...
the-demonic-paradise.fandom.com
Astaroth
Astaroth, formerly known as Esther, is a Crowned Prince of Jinnestan and Great Duke of Hell. Astaroth is also the twenty-ninth spirit listed in the Ars Goetia. He is an exceptionally powerful Duke of Hell assisted by four demons: Aamon, Barbatos, Rashaverak and Pruflas. Astaroth is one of the...
gods-and-demons.fandom.com
Ps These are extras I also found
Astaroth (Soulcalibur) - Wikipedia
Ashteroth Karnaim - Wikipedia
Astaroth: Book of Angels Volume 1 - Wikipedia
Flairina
Least Omnipotent Goddess
- Location
- The next infinity over
Eheh, sorry about that — this chapter has actually been done for a while, but I was extremely anxious about actually posting it, which delayed its release by like, a month and a half. So yes, hopefully that won't be the case for the next one. ^^;
Good news, you get to see more right now!
Yeah... I worry this story has been too grim lately. I really need to get it back on a proper schedule so we can get to some lighter elements to go along with that soon. This may be a PMMM fic, but there needs to be balance. ☯️
Oh no, Ashtaroth gathered it was a grief overload — but as you may recall, Tira quite recently had a similar breakdown with Candeloro that also overflowed Ashtaroth's capacity to hold said grief, and this did not happen. So the question is, what changed?
No, that's correct. She remembers no personal or historical details beyond the point of her own wish.
The potential is there, to be sure - though somehow I doubt that's any of our trio's main priority right now.
*blinks* Priests...? Wha- oh, you mean the Saints. As an aside, for those interested, the MG primarily responsible for that would be Niko Kanna (though there's an implication that the other Saints somehow contributed to this as well, as Kazumi has access to all of their personal magic).
Time to go ask the Pleiades Saints to succeed at something they've demonstrably failed at 12 separate times now! Better hurry, they're not scheduled to last too long past that.
I'll note that this story beat has been planned for a while, but the introduction of doppels to the series canon, even if in another universe entirely, did make this slightly more... complicated to plan.
I'm not sure a Kyubey detached from the "asshole network" would even function — not without something else driving the body, at least.
Indeed... albeit from a tainted source, who's likely to tell you the whole truth about many things just so he can slip in a misleading fact exactly where it would best screw one over, so actually maybe that was for the best.
Nah, I'm not abandoning any of my stories in favor of the others, even if it sometimes feels like it. As I've said before, this is the story of mine you should likely be least concerned about ever permanently dying.（*＾-＾*）
Funnily, she almost has one of those built into her chest already. In fact, while it's not the route I chose to go here, the implication is that she actually sees through that grill, rather than out of her helmet, at least going by her various doppel forms. But, there's no actual proof of that, so I wrote it this way instead.
Kinda, yeah. As demonstrated in this chapter.
Indeed — but this timeline's Kyubey would never have seen that, now would he?
Do note the wording of Kyubey's rebuttal to Ash's question of "all known historical attempts to do so". Lapin's wish was aimed at Isabeau, for whom the attempted reversion didn't work. That Lapin happened to end up with magic that let her do that for herself, personally, was completely incidental - and thus, not a working attempt.
I also had to look back through Kazumi Magica in order to make sure I was describing Kazumi's situation correctly, and yes, wouldn't you know it?
(Writing Kyubey is extremely difficult. But if you're looking closely, you'll find he uses exactly this kind of "technically correct, from my perspective/with this wording" speech in essentially every appearance he's had in this fic thus far.)
Hmm. Did he say that, exactly?
Also, a few comments I didn't get to before:
Romka is correct; Homura's shield has an hourglass in it, within which the "sands of time" can be reversed by twisting the shield to turn the hourglass. However, it's a bit of a stretch to say that just having the shield would give Ashtaroth the ability to use all its functions — note that her version of Tira's penbrush automatically becomes a sword as soon as she produces it, preventing her from using it in any other way.
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That would be better than my assumption, where in also forgetting the timeline I assumed it was after they went back in time, and... Well. I just checked, and past Sayaka isn't a Puella Magi yet, since she's still carrying around the baseball bat Mami enchanted for her. And past Tira has now witched out where she didn't in the previous timeline. I think Tira's Grief burst did make a witch, just not here.
Do note the wording of Kyubey's rebuttal to Ash's question of "all known historical attempts to do so". Lapin's wish was aimed at Isabeau, for whom the attempted reversion didn't work. That Lapin happened to end up with magic that let her do that for herself, personally, was completely incidental - and thus, not a working attempt.
Remember people, Kyubey may never tell something not true, but he is still a lying liar who lies.
Though technically, Isabeau's attempt did make her a magical girls once again, but well, this is not human for Kyubzey, and she suffered from the same problem as Kazumi: Memories made her reverse, so he can still not count it as *successful*, in his words at least.
I mean, this is canon, he is, for all intent and purposes, an alien Fae. Just look at what he said when Kyouko asked if she could reverse Oktavia into Sayaka, *I wouldn't be surprised*, from something that can't feel surprise, is very much not a good indicator. Then he does the same in reverse to madoka when she asks about it, telling *yeah, Kyuoko couldn't have done it*, removing the *with the way she was doing it* and *as far as I know* to make it seems worse than it was.
I would assume their contribution was their memories of Michiru(and with that a "flavor" of their magic)? Something to jog any memories left in the Witch they used as the source for their work.
They didn't fail as such. They just couldn't keep their earlier attempts stable. Kind of like how the modern world has fusion technology, but that only works in experiments for a few seconds.Time to go ask the Pleiades Saints to succeed at something they've demonstrably failed at 12 separate times now! Better hurry, they're not scheduled to last too long past that.
Symbolic for Sayaka deciding things with her heart and ignoring her head?
Wasn't Tira's Grief explosion before Shemesh got revived? Potentially even being what revived Shemesh?
Ha Ha! Ashtaroth's story continues! Glad to see another update.
Kyubey does as they are want to do- be an infuriating sack of not-marshmallow stuff.
The grief/witch mechanics revealed here are really interesting, even if it took me reading other's commentary for things to make sense.
Still, I think Beowolf has it here- Ashtaroth didn't revive Shamesh with the overload (I kinda think he came back with the time jump. Ashtaroth can't keep tabs on him, and didn't even know he exsisted in the first place until she was book-to-orb), she sent it to the only other place Tira-aligned grief could go- Tira's soul gem. It just so happens that this soul gem wasn't contained within Novella, 'cause timy-wimy things interact weirdly with souls and whatnot. And when Ashtaroth tried to do the same thing with Sayaka-aligned grief, there was no quantum-linked soul gem to send it to, as Sayaka has yet to make a contract.
Also, jeeze this thread is a lot more active than the SB one.
Kyubey does as they are want to do- be an infuriating sack of not-marshmallow stuff.
The grief/witch mechanics revealed here are really interesting, even if it took me reading other's commentary for things to make sense.
I'd argue that Ashtaroth is the witch, but the personality we've been following is not Ashtaroth. She doesn't remember her name, and just *knew* that Ashtaroth is what she's called now, much in the same way she's found out about all the other functions of her witch-self.
I'm gonna point out that the first grief overload was, indeed, after they went back in time. It could have even been only twenty-odd minutes ago to boot. It may not seem like it, but the only things that have happened since then are a fair amount of conversation, Sayaka and Tira going for a walk, the phone call to Madoka, and then the convo with Kyubey. Personally, I'd attribute that to a bit more than 20 min, but then again I lose track of time a lot.
Still, I think Beowolf has it here- Ashtaroth didn't revive Shamesh with the overload (I kinda think he came back with the time jump. Ashtaroth can't keep tabs on him, and didn't even know he exsisted in the first place until she was book-to-orb), she sent it to the only other place Tira-aligned grief could go- Tira's soul gem. It just so happens that this soul gem wasn't contained within Novella, 'cause timy-wimy things interact weirdly with souls and whatnot. And when Ashtaroth tried to do the same thing with Sayaka-aligned grief, there was no quantum-linked soul gem to send it to, as Sayaka has yet to make a contract.
Also, jeeze this thread is a lot more active than the SB one.
- Location
- Detroit, Michigan
...huh. Both on topic in advance, and a good reason for me to actually post this image:
Welcome home! Won't you stay for some tea...? <3
(Art once again commissioned by @Pheonix14, and drawn by Kerubii on Deviantart. As for whether or not this will be relevant to the story later... think I'll leave that up to you all to guess.
Oh hey, it's the cutie again! You did actually post that here already.
Well, Ashtaroth, er... that is... Tome, is rather... well-built... so if Ashtaroth can fly Tome up at an angle, and her stalk down, and then hold a fulcrum of her stalk in place, then gravity should be able to provide a solid blow to anything in Tome's path.
Extensions can be changed, but Kyubey is still around and very much not Jubeyed, at least as far as I can tell from all the way over here having no knowledge of Jubey aside from a dash of wiki reviewing...
So "Kyubey can't be changed" seems accurate, because Kyubey-as-kyubey is unchanged, even if a kyubey was changed.
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Romka
Master of Stealth
- Location
- In a barrel
I finally have time to go over the new chapter. I'll go over the Kyubey bits in even more detail at the end.
It seems Tira has noticed that something is happening and its related to Sayaka's rage. Sayaka on the other hand is blind with rage.
You know, I recall something from earlier in the story about a horrible magic chestburster. I guess Ashtaroth's fears were well founded. Weird that it didn't happen when Sayaka was first subsumed though.
Ashtaroth restrained herself but Sayaka couldn't. Makes sense for someone who acts on her feelings so much, especially after all that Kyubey has done.
Well, its not quite self resurrection, but close enough.
What? Can't a guy eat himself without be judged for it? I figured Ashtaroth of all people would be okay with that.
Well that isn't good.
It seems Tira has noticed that something is happening and its related to Sayaka's rage. Sayaka on the other hand is blind with rage.
You know, I recall something from earlier in the story about a horrible magic chestburster. I guess Ashtaroth's fears were well founded. Weird that it didn't happen when Sayaka was first subsumed though.
Ah, this is like those doppels from magia record. Except Ashtaroth is the doppel. Also interesting to that Oktavia view Sayaka as her weaker self. And is the last line in reference to Kyubey or Ashtaroth. She's glaring at Kyubey but the sentence seems much more relevant to Ashtaroth. If it is meant for Ash, it would make Kyubeys confusion more reasonable, since that doesn't make much sense directed at him.
Sayaka is shocked, Tira is afraid, Oktavia is still sad about Mami, and she wants to be free from Ashtaroth, even if it means death.
Attacking your other self with the stuff that lets you exist wasn't the best idea now was it?
Aww, Candy is giving Tira a hug.
Oh wow, even after all that Ash still feels sore and groggy.
Now for the obligatory going over Kyubey's words with a fine comb:
So, I think Madoka picked up the phone, Sayaka said two words, and Kyubey cut the call so he could investigate wtf a Sayaka sound alike was calling Madoka on Tira Narumi's phone.
He's also never said there were no magical girls with that name more than a millennium ago. And he didn't say that Ashtaroth didn't match the description of witches that persisted for less than a century, which would include most witches.
I guess they could be seen as familiars if you allow that their souls are a part of Ashtaroth now, and they are therefore made of Ash's soulstuff, but I think they are sufficiently distinct to warrant a new classification. Then again, it is Kyubey, so maybe he's just calling them familiars to make them suffer.
Also Oof Tira.
Overall, this was a conversation full of oofs. Kyubey implied Ashtaroth would never become human again, Told Tira her alternate self recently became a witch, and called her and Sayaka familiars. The thing is, Kyubey chose to phrase things that way. Based on what other users have said about witch - human reversions in side stories, it seems he has deliberately downplayed the possibility of Ash becoming human again. Telling Tira that her counterpart just witched out was also secondary to the point he was making. And he could have noted that Tira and Sayaka were also very unusual without calling them familiars.
This could just be Kyubey explaining things in the most accurate way he can by the standards of his emotionless race, but there also might be more to it than that. Remember, Kyubey considered forming a telepathic link with a witch to be an experiment. This whole conversation is basically just him gathering data. Perhaps Kyubey is trying to cause as much pain as possible to see what happens if any of the three very sane despair monsters despair. If that was his plan then he probably got his wish.
Smashing someone's remote controlled meat drone is indeed rather rude, if not unjustified under the circumstances.
Attempting to kill him could also make his attempted murderers feel better, though as an emotionless being he honestly wouldn't take that into account.
Unsurprising, but Kyubey did hear that phone call. He probably cut it off the first time too. The call went like this:
The initial "Um... hello?" line flows differently from the rest of the message. It seems unsure, like the sort of thing you'd actually say if you picked up an unknown number. Usually if you started a voicemail greeting like that you'd just delete it and try again until you got a more put together sounding message. Which is exactly how the second part of the message sounds.
So, I think Madoka picked up the phone, Sayaka said two words, and Kyubey cut the call so he could investigate wtf a Sayaka sound alike was calling Madoka on Tira Narumi's phone.
Not much of note here.
That's actually pretty bad. If Kyubey knows Homura's a time traveler, he can pull his "you're actually just making things worse" card on Homura, which will make her give up on time travelling and probably witch out.
Actually, this doesn't necessarily mean Kyubey doesn't know Astaroth's human name. He could just be referring to her witch name and bringing up the lack of magical girls with that name to mislead Ash.
He's also never said there were no magical girls with that name more than a millennium ago. And he didn't say that Ashtaroth didn't match the description of witches that persisted for less than a century, which would include most witches.
Highly variable, but not entirely. And Ash is the first Kyubey has known to be so sane. Not the first he has known of. He could have heard of others based on encounters others of his kind have had.
Note that depending on how strict you are in defining the original self, Ashtaroth herself could be a flawed facsimile. After all, she's missing many of her memories, and even her personality may have changed. This does not necessarily imply that a witch cannot become a normal sane person. Or in other words, 'flawed' might be good enough for Ashtaroth.
I'll be honest, I don't actually know that much about side stories, so I'll just let other people examine this.
Note that Kyubey might genuinely be mistaken here. Remember, He hasn't seen Ashtaroth subsume anyone, and we haven't even mentioned that power. By all appearances, he doesn't know its something we can do, he just sees that we have copies of Tira and Sayaka with us. He might have assumed that Tira and Sayaka were just that, rather actually having Tira and Sayaka's souls through us.
I guess they could be seen as familiars if you allow that their souls are a part of Ashtaroth now, and they are therefore made of Ash's soulstuff, but I think they are sufficiently distinct to warrant a new classification. Then again, it is Kyubey, so maybe he's just calling them familiars to make them suffer.
Also Oof Tira.
More generic Kyubeyisms. Probably reads them off a script or something.
And Kyubey genuinely wondering what's happening
Overall, this was a conversation full of oofs. Kyubey implied Ashtaroth would never become human again, Told Tira her alternate self recently became a witch, and called her and Sayaka familiars. The thing is, Kyubey chose to phrase things that way. Based on what other users have said about witch - human reversions in side stories, it seems he has deliberately downplayed the possibility of Ash becoming human again. Telling Tira that her counterpart just witched out was also secondary to the point he was making. And he could have noted that Tira and Sayaka were also very unusual without calling them familiars.
This could just be Kyubey explaining things in the most accurate way he can by the standards of his emotionless race, but there also might be more to it than that. Remember, Kyubey considered forming a telepathic link with a witch to be an experiment. This whole conversation is basically just him gathering data. Perhaps Kyubey is trying to cause as much pain as possible to see what happens if any of the three very sane despair monsters despair. If that was his plan then he probably got his wish.
Lopezelpesado
Space worm best worm.
- Pronouns
- Something
What would happen if ash absorbed kyubey tho? Now that has me curious.
Maybe take control of kyubey? Become a virus that starts infecting the hive mind?
Maybe take control of kyubey? Become a virus that starts infecting the hive mind?
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Kalibrius
God of reflection
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
If anything astaroth would be able to pull an isabeau or if any of you are familiar with another witchs antics ( the spider witch from witch quest, gave a wish to hitomi and basically created a cursed pocket watch of sorts that is facismile of soul gem) the spider witch, in short probably gain kyubey's grant a wish trick and possibly gain his 'drone' as a pseudo familiar...... it could also mutate to fit astaroths nature making it distinctly different than the normal baseline, jubey was different and so was the little bugger from magia record, what do you think an astaroth altered kyubey would look like?
This does give me a question, could astaroth theoretically offload her greif to one of the others to temporarily assume a truly human form much like the spider witch
And if astaroth dies and homura turns back time/jumps universes would the dead astaroth be merged with the new one
The thing to remember is that homuta isn't simply a time traveler but a timeline jumper, it's the entire reason the minute differences exist in each loop, it looks like a loop from an in universe perspective but from ours it's actually a coil or spring
This does give me a question, could astaroth theoretically offload her greif to one of the others to temporarily assume a truly human form much like the spider witch
And if astaroth dies and homura turns back time/jumps universes would the dead astaroth be merged with the new one
The thing to remember is that homuta isn't simply a time traveler but a timeline jumper, it's the entire reason the minute differences exist in each loop, it looks like a loop from an in universe perspective but from ours it's actually a coil or spring
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Hypothesis: When Tira's grief overload occurred, two things were different; 1) Shemesh had not yet been revived, and 2) the underlying desire was penitence for a perceived wrong on her part toward someone else (Candeloro). By contrast, during Sayaka's grief overload, Shemesh existed, and the underlying desire was hostility toward a particular individual that she felt had wronged her (Kyuubey). I think the hostility had more to do with what happened than Shemesh though. In other words, because the nature of their respective overloads was polar opposites, different outcomes occurred.
If Mami and Oriko having visions of their witch selves in TDS and SP, along with the various Doppel training events from MegiReco are any indication, then it would seem that witches really are separate entities from the magical girls they were spawned from rather than just the girls warped and twisted by grief.
Kalibrius
God of reflection
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
In general a witch is born from a magical girl but it doesn't mean the magical girl no longer exists
It's possibly an inversion of sorts when the girl is at her nadir then the witch is at her zenith thus trapping her in the witches own 'shadow' so to speak
Much lik ash the witch the main character who has no control of her fate with it always being in the hands of others and Ashtaroth 'the author' manipulating poor protagonist from 'backstage'
It's possibly an inversion of sorts when the girl is at her nadir then the witch is at her zenith thus trapping her in the witches own 'shadow' so to speak
Much lik ash the witch the main character who has no control of her fate with it always being in the hands of others and Ashtaroth 'the author' manipulating poor protagonist from 'backstage'
So I'm guessing a trip to Asunaro is in order for the future
Interesting that Kyubey would automatically assume Sayaka and Tira were familiars created by Ash. Then again, Kyubey never saw the two of them get eaten and he wouldnt have the memories of his alternate self anyway. Without the knowledge that Ash had taken their soul gems, it wouldnt be a big leap to assume that Sayaka and Tira were famiscles created by the witch particularly when there is a witch (Mirrors) capable of creating near perfect copies of people. Of course, I wouldnt put it past Sayaka or Tira to come to the worse case conclusion that they were really were just copies with memories of the real Sayaka and Tira created by Tira. After all, neither of them have soul gems on their person and they cant leave the barrier
TBF, the viewers and Homura have the benefit of a third party perspective and ~100 time loops to know that Kyubey doesnt lie or at least give out false statements while as far as Sayaka is concerned Kyubey may just be spouting more untruths
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Homura is pretty wise to the cabbit's ways, and is quite adept at shooting it before it can say much. I wouldn't say she is safe by any means, but I suspect that she is better than most. If she's lucky, it might just about be enough to give up on witching her, and instead make a new time-travelling witch, with multiple Madokas for maximum unlimited grief escalation. I mean, Madoka is the real prize of Homura's activities, so more of that would be desireable.
Appletank
Acquire Cheese
Shower thought after discussion of Ashy's leglessness. Since her move speed is limited by Tome's hover speed, could she speed up by grabbing swords and trying to ski-push off the ground? Or maybe using Sarr's fan as a boost. Blow into a compression chamber, dump fuel, afterburner time.
- Location
- Terra-Luna
Hm. This seems like a setup offering a non-zero chance for Homura to get weirded out by the fluffy bunny-cat of doom suddenly trying to be helpful to a degree. If the thing got it in its head that there could be some possibility of exploiting alternate realities to the benefit of the timeline that it cares about, then though Madoka could still be firmly in the crosshairs as a contract to be realised, Homura might end up with some utterly bizarre circumstances to her with random other magical girls coming out of the woodwork to protect her under the impression that Homura is on a super-important mission or something. The situation might not last past a single loop, maybe, but it could definitely stand to be one of the stranger loops.
Homura uses gratuitous explosions; Tome is the thing to put in the way of explosions... and is what Ashy uses for hover movement. Pulse detonation explosion surfing! Nyoooom!
Ferb_Ancos
The one under the table
- Pronouns
- He
Great chapter! the implications are getting bigger and possibilities are starting to expand even more! I wonder what will come next and how Sayaka will live through this. And pretty neat what you just did here, in fact I am planning to make another omake related to something you just featured in there.
Besides...
This deserves to be drawn, is just too cute XD
Not by me, unfortunately. I don't have the skills
Besides...
This deserves to be drawn, is just too cute XD
Not by me, unfortunately. I don't have the skills
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Romka
Master of Stealth
- Location
- In a barrel
Probably still a net negative. If there aren't any other targets when the witch spawns then it will attack them, and even if there are the sort of breakdown that creates a witch might be difficult to trigger on demand. Plus the whole drowning in despair thing.
Hey now, I can think of two methods by which Ash could get a madoka tier potential, though admittedly, those methods might not agree with Ash using them.
Octavia used grief attack on Sayaka! It was Super Effective!
Ashtaroth threw a pokeball!
...
...
...
Octavia was caught!
Actually, I don't think Oktavia could speak, I think that was just her internal narration, which Sayaka possibly understood anyway due to their connection.
So essentially, Oktavia wants Sayaka to be more of an emo edgelord like she is.
Shocking, I know. Next you'll tell me that Madoka knows how to say damn.
A pretty simple explanation for Ash would be that when Shemesh is already intact there's nowhere else to send the grief. I'm more confused about why Ash didn't even have a grief overload when she first subsumed Sayaka. That had to have produced more despair than this incident.
Actually, I was thinking of Ashtaroth using Homura's version of Homura's shield through Homura's own arm, rather than using any penbrush style copy of the shield that she would get personally.
So to summarize, the grief Ashtaroth sent away during Tira's breakdown either went to Shemesh or Tira's current timeline self who subsequently witched.
Timelines do differ from each other, so its possible that Tira witched naturally in this timeline, but I'm still inclined to say it happened as a result of Ashtaroth shoving the grief away. For one thing the timing is just too good. Tira witched approximately 22 minutes ago, which is suspiciously close to when our Tira's breakdown happened.
For another thing, Ashtaroth has never been shown to have control over familiar spawning in the past. It seems to be automated, with Astaroth's conscious attempts to do it failing. It would be strange for this one instance to be the exception. Plus, partially subsuming Homura fully restored her, and added to her form on top. With so much grief from that I would have expected Shemesh to be restored there.
The problem is this exact scenario happened in canon. When Kyubey found out Homura was a time traveler he told her that she was responsible for Madoka's increasing potential. When she failed to defeat Walpurgisnacht she decided that it was pointless to go back again and would have witched if Madoka hadn't preempted her by erasing the concept of witches.
Ferb_Ancos
The one under the table
- Pronouns
- He
To be fair, is more possible to me that Tira wasted all of her energy fighting Saar. That is the event that happened around those times I believe.