never lets it visitor escape its barrier
I wonder how Mami defines her barrier. Would Sayaka and Tira be allowed out so long as they stayed on their spiritual leashes? They are already prevented from completely leaving the witch's influence.
This reminds me of the dancing Ashtaroth gifs... which appear to still be great. 4-armed-no-hips Macarena is just amazing in how much it retains its Macarenaness.

I do not have much of a history with tea-parties, but I would assume that they are a natural predator of books. Reading would be a distraction from the party and thus frowned upon, no? And books would tend to accrue stains from being in the vicinity and may even *gasp* be improvised into coasters?
 
While I doubt it will be the case I kind of hope Mami somehow gained witch sentience by witching in Ashy's barrier.
Sapience or not, Ashy's barrier should make life much easier for most witches in a way that doesn't end in death and misery. Two main scenarios I can think of that apply here:
  1. When witches and familiars find their own labyrinths inadequate for some reason, they tend to cause trouble. In an entire network of labyrinths that they can freely explore, they can fill their needs without bothering humans.
  2. When witches and familiars want to be left alone, they tend to cause trouble. By hiding deep inside a bigger, more complex barrier filled with many other witches and familiars from all over, they are harder to find and less vulnerable in general.
Candeloro is an example of Case 1. She wants friends, and Ashy has two friends who literally can't leave, no direct intervention required.

Just a sudden artstyle shift, really. Here is a random example, featuring a wendigo of all things. PMMM is normally too sober for this trope, but it's too good not to use in genuinely humorous moments.

The background shift is optional, but it helps sell the idea of "momentary distraction from the seriousness of the setting". I imagined the polka dot background in your profile pic, heh.

I mean, they did fly off to a "land of rainbows" shortly after this, so you're not completely off base.
Is it going to be the episode intro, then? The lyrics are astonishingly accurate to the story, yet too upbeat for the genre. Nicely contrasts Outer Science.

*One-Winged Angel intensifies* :V
 
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You're spoiling me... and I love it. 💖 Threadmarked!
I aim to please, and there's probably more where that came from; I've been rereading the thread a few of the comments have given me ideas.

If you need me I'll be looking for a Sayaka-sized witch hat and some coaching on 'Edge' for her...
Bigger than a person implies a MUCH larger variant than the one we see in PMMM portable... unless she was just so angry with Ashtaroth that she swelled up like Saar.
Once more Google image search fails me!

The only useful (for scaling) images I could find made Candelorro look somewhere around three-metres tall. Nonetheless, lets just pretend she did indeed swell up like Saar in a mixture of rage and determination to restyle all hair within her domain.

*One-Winged Angel intensifies*
"Cloud?"

"Yes Tifa?"

"I thought we were here to stop Sepharoth, Why are we fighting a giant book? And why is it dancing the Macarena?"

"Because this isn't a fight Tifa; It's a dance off. And we're currently being served."
 
> Compromise by accepting Tira's suggestion to go to Kazamino.
So no backstory for Ashy. Oh well, another Tira is fine too.

Sayaka's face contorts, like she still wants to object, but after a moment she reluctantly nods.
She kind of shot herself in the foot with calling Madoka.

You set your barrier in motion towards Kazamino, easily located since you're basically just heading back towards Mitakihara. It does rather feel like you're tempting fate to even go near the latter city again, but with Mami is no longer a factor, and with presumably the entirety of Mitakihara to herself now, Homura should have no reason to start hunting in its neighboring city. Kind of hard to be certain with someone who can literally teleport, but most magical girls only go witch hunting out of necessity, not enjoyment. Or so you assume, at least.
Homura might look into what Oriko is up to, but I don't think she has any other reasons to be in Kazamino. At least until Sayaka calls her parents or Madoka.

You could theoretically just leave her be, but depending on what type of witch Mami has become, that could potentially end up being a really bad idea. She needs to be either determined to be non-hostile, or... taken care of, in a relatively permanent manner. And given Charlotte's recent actions, the bar for the former qualification should probably be raised a bit.
In Charlotte's defense, Tira was an enemy at the time and she did spit her out later without making too much of a fuss.

...that said, given that your only interactions with Mami up until now have consisted primarily of her attempting to kill you, you would honestly prefer that this particular witch not be like you. Or at least not remember her former self in any great capacity. Even if that means trying to figure out what factors into sanity and memory retention for other witches becomes a lot harder, it would be a lot less... potentially messy.
Well, a magical girls Wish is probably what decides if they stay sane/remember stuff or not. Mamis Wish was about surviving, being formulated as something like "binding/connecting her to live", so if she remembers something its probable things that she has a strong connection to. She probably won't remember Ashy but rather Sayaka, Tira, Kyoko or Madoka.

<Yes?> you answer, confused. <She's in my barrier, and is thus my problem, so of course I'm coming. Why wouldn't I?>

Sayaka shakes her head. "Nothing... I guess you'd still technically be there even if you didn't go in person, so nevermind."
Technically, she is already there, being the Barrier itself.:V

"Hey, wait!" Sayaka suddenly interrupts. "Could you keep your purse and phone out, just in case Madoka calls back?"
If Ashy puts Tira back into Tome without her purse and phone, would a re-summoned Tira come without them or get another copy of them?
Sayaka came completely healed out of Tome after the Homura fight, but that could have been a side effect of the time travel.

You honestly didn't. It feels perfectly natural, like there's no question you should be calling them by their first names, because that's... just who they are to you. But if you think about it, they weren't, or at least they weren't up until you subsumed them you guess? Maybe it's the same reason you naturally think of all of Saar and Charlotte's familiars by name now, instead of calling them... well, Saar and Charlotte's familiars.
Well, yeah. Why use a formal address to call something that is a part of you?

"It is not that I dislike the idea!" she stresses. "I am simply unused to speaking with others in such an informal manner..."

"...within a relatively friendly context, at least." she adds under her breath, too low for Sayaka to hear.
Sounds like Tiras social situation was rather problematic. But hey, we get to see that first hand, if she wants to get some stuff from "her" apartment.

Sayaka shrugs. "Well, feel free to stick with Miki-san until you feel comfortable with it then. I honestly don't really care what people call me... though, I do wish they'd at least ask first." she finishes, turning back to you.
We just got permission to give her a nickname. We now have to come up with something really, really weird. Blueberry is not enough!

<Um, sure.> you reply. <That's fine, I guess.>
I'm still going to call her Ashy.:(

On that note, the three of you start moving again, passing through the portal leading out of the Canvas. You emerge into your barrier's outer layer, which... to put it gently, has clearly seen better days. The giant patch of burned-away grass in the distance is immediately evident, and the various damaged and destroyed skyroads are just as glaringly noticeable. That's just the obvious damage too — you're sure there's more minor stuff scattered about as well, given just how much your battles with Mami, Tira, and Homura ranged around the area.
No mention of Saars' forest having vanished or Charlotte's part of the Barrier. So things don't need to get subsumed to get dragged along. Being part of the Barrier is enough.

Given that they haven't vanished, you suppose that means Homura's weapons weren't magical... though, you suppose that was already pretty apparent once she pulled out the rocket launcher.
Why? A magical rocket launcher wouldn't be the weirdest weapon for a magical girl.:confused:

"I hate how tall this stuff is." Sayaka mutters, trying and failing to look over grass nearly twice her height.

"It does seem rather inconvenient." Tira agrees. "Shall I make us some aerial transportation?"
Can't Sayaka just create platforms, to run above the grass? It's not like she has to worry about using too much magic. They really need to find some time for training.

It takes you about a minute to reach the partially-blackened clearing, which you discover is a lot more active than you'd really been expecting. Faas are swarming over the space like a hive of frenzied bees, at least a dozen of them hovering near the clearing's edges and using their propellers like miniature weed whackers to trim away burned sections of foliage. Others are scooping up handfuls of the nearby puddle of grass goop — which is pretty much just normal grass pulp now, Tira's acidic paint having evidently faded from the semi-liquid mass — and flying off with it towards Saar's section of the barrier. What they plan on doing with that, you have no idea.
Probably fertilizer. They are mainly gardeners.

There are also a few Polina standing around, which appear to be collecting the discarded pieces of cut grass and... weaving them? You're not actually sure what they're doing either.
I guess they weave them into bandages? Gathering supplies, basically.

More importantly than any of that, Mami's body is indeed still present, though perhaps not for very much longer, as a group of Faas are winding vines around the cadaver's limbs even as you watch. They slowly begin to lift into the air-
Yup, fertilizer. If they aren't secretly working as undertakers.

A cutlass forms in her hands and slices the vines apart, dropping Mami's body back to the ground. The Faas turn to Sayaka, clench themselves into fists, and give her a collective thumbs down.
Oh no, Sayaka was down voted!

Despite her words, she doesn't turn back around, clearly not wanting to watch. Respecting that, you lean over and gently scoop Mami's body up from the ground, lifting it up and laying it across Novella's surface before calling forth your subsumption vortex. The pattern quickly spirals into being and swallows the cadaver splayed out atop it, drawing it down into the pages' depths. You gently shut Novella, feeling it only appropriate to do so, and wait to feel the effects. Empty...?

...and wait. Useless.

...and wait some more. A corpse is not a character.
Huh, so it doesn't matter if something is magical or not. It's also not about potential but instead about... agency?, or rather how much Narrative someone has. That would fit with what we saw until now.

Ashy didn't have the urge to subsume Madoka, because she is currently only a normal schoolgirl. If she became a magical girl that would change because Madoka would inevitably become a Witch, affecting many lives/Narratives around her.
Homura, on the other hand, caused a strong direct urge because her Narrative is, right now, tangled up with Walpurgisnacht and a "hidden" urge because of her influence on the fate of every world she traveled through her time-travel. A form of meta-Narrative, I guess.
I wonder how the equipment on subsumed characters, like Tiras' phone, factor into this. Maybe as props?

Despite the otherwise rather somber mood, you can't help but sulk a little at this discovery. How disappointing. Even that pair of Pyotr you subsumed yesterday gave you a partial profile for their witch and a tiny bit of grief, and they were rather pathetic as familiars go.
Right, Familiars don't get their own entries, they are part of their Witches entries. That fits with how they can turn into copies of their creator Witch.

You were hoping to at least preserve Mami's body if nothing else, but without a profile page for her, you don't think you can even get it back out of you.
Maybe if she subsumes this timelines Mami...

Your first thought is that the area actually seems a little small in comparison to Saar's, the massive trees of which you can still see looming not too far in the distance. Then again, Charlotte's section also seems "small" from a purely surface view. With the geometry of witch barriers being what it is, you shouldn't make any assumptions just yet. Frankly, it's probably best if it truly is small anyways, because if your barrier keeps gaining additional sections like this, you're going to end up needing a map just to get around.
Upside of that would be that the same goes for any invading magical girl.
I'm curious if Ashy could learn how to manipulate the geometry of her barrier, or at least how the Outer Barrier interacts with the Canvas.
Or maybe just force any portal to the outside of the Barrier, to appear in another Witches area instead of her own.

From your vantage point on high, you can also see that each of the massive teacups placed atop the floating platters is filled with a strange, shimmering liquid, continually swirling around the cup's interior and releasing wisps of multicolored steam into the air above.
Is that actually tea? Maybe they can try a cup later.

Unfortunately, you can already tell that there is absolutely no way you're going to fit through the door, even if you shove yourself as deep into Tome as you can possibly get — you'll have to send Tira and Sayaka in on their own. Being as large as you are now is becoming increasingly inconvenient...
Maybe Shemesh is going to show up if they get into trouble. Or Ashy could try re-summon some of the Familiars she subsumed. If she can control them like she can Sayaka...

There are other interesting things about the roughly humanoid beings, such as the childish crayon drawings tacked to their foreheads like spell tags, or the witch runes written across their torsos and aprons, which are too small for you to make out from this distance. Their most notable feature however is definitely their hairstyles: one of them has long crimson hair tied back in a high ponytail, while the other has short blue hair, trimmed into an almost pixie-like cut and held back with a hairclip on one side.
Huh, I expected the Familiars to look like Tira and Sayaka, because of Mami's feelings of guilt about getting Tira killed and being unable to save Sayaka. I guess Tira is not as important to Mami as Kyoko.

You're not quite sure that you should trust the implied invitation, however. On the one hand, the non-hostile greeting is theoretically a very good sign. On the other hand, said greeting could easily lead to a trap, and one you won't be able to personally do anything about, since it appears that this is as far as you can physically go. How to approach this...
I'm surprised there isn't an option to send in Tira solo. She could cut stuff just as well as Sayaka and might be able to create a copy of herself to distract Candeloro.

So this
[-] Write in.
-[-] Send Tira inside on her own. Her magic should allow her to create distractions, making it easier for her to getaway if the Witch is hostile.
or
[-] Send Sayaka and Tira inside. With two magical girls working together and covering each others' backs, they should be able to handle any trouble they encounter.
 
6 refers to a single-timeline with aborted timelines being destroyed. It is a question of whether the one that went back in time lost their own history of the time preceding the point they went back to and inherited a replacement, probably... . That would be a little P-zombie, but people can get zombie hackles from that sort of stuff.
11 references the idea that there was an extant world that you jumped into from the one that you already occupied. This world suddenly had an intruder jumping into it. Did that world have an established timeline that you then altered by invading?
I'm not sure what it means to have their history replaced. Are you talking about memories? Physical qualities? Some mystical connection? And in a single-timeline model, the two histories would be identical anyway.

I don't see anything p-zombie-ish about that, though; more omphalos hypothesis.

So you're asking whether the future is pre-determined, and a slider jumping in derails that? I'm not sure the question is well-posed.

I would argue that it is only morally neutral from a familiarity perspective. It would be more accurate to test its morality based upon its products. If a world created is good, then it is good, if the world is bad, then the act is bad, and P.M.M.M. worlds tend to appear bad unless one factors entropy and trusts that The Incubators won't extinct existence.
I don't think it's neutral only because of familiarity—I think that copying the universe has to be neutral, so the morality of splitting off a new timeline is entirely a matter of how you change things. But I don't have a complete argument for that position, so I won't make one.

Math was never something I was very good at so I will just ask. How would that be affected by Tira and Sayaka being inside of the Canvas? The signal would then have to pass through two portals, one into the Barrier and one into the Canvas.
Directly proportional to broadcast power, size (cross-sectional area) of exit portal, and size of Canvas portal. Inversely proportional to the squares of the the distances between phone and Canvas portal, Canvas portal and exit portal, and exit portal and cell tower.

I am not the best at this, but I believe that mathematics can largely be replaces with geometry for this, at least if one doesn't care for exact numbers. Basically (well it is a sphere instead of a circle, so everything is worse) imagine the signal at a certain range as a circle. The signal has to spread out over the entire surface of the circle, and the circle's circumference will increase as its radius increases, thus the signal will not lose so much total strength, but because it is spread out over an ever-growing area, at any given point, it will become weaker. When it hits a barrier, it stops, but if there is a hole it can go through that, but only the bits that reach the hole go through. At this point, things get a bit odd and we assume that it spreads out around the hole, so it gets a new source, producing a new ever-growing-circle, that has a total signal strength of only the signal that went through the hole.
Correct. It spreads out on the other side of the hole because that's how waves work. I know it's possible to have that not happen, but I don't know enough about optics to say how or why. I don't think a radio broadcast is one of those cases, but I could be wrong.

Heh. There's a reason we usually count just five senses: all our other senses, though very important, are not as critical to our perception of the outside world. Nociception could be fooled if the pain is caused by fake stimuli. I'm not sure how chronoception would fit in.
Nociception is a separate sense with dedicated nerves. You could produce phantom pain from other stimuli, but it wouldn't be as consistent or controlled as inducing it directly.

Chronoception is weird, and being able to mess with it would be very powerful—possibly even more than screwing with proprioception. But neither is in-theme; Set the Scene is unlikely to affect any internal senses.

And yeah, I chose thermoception partly because it's an external sense; balance arguably is too but isn't really experienced as one.

As I said, an educated guess. It's not a good estimate, but it's good enough for now.
I don't disagree. I just think that, as a matter of clear communication, estimates should be explicitly labeled as such.

That was absolutely unhelpful and definitely not the information I was fishing for. But it is a correct, satisfactory answer.
The best kind of answer. :)

But I don't think Kirk/Spock/McCoy is the right archetype for Ashtaroth, Tira and Sayaka. You might get more mileage out of fighter/mage/soul-thief, or maybe squid/egoist/superhero.

That's actually an interesting point. Where should Ashy place her Barrier?
Abandoned places, in the hope that nobody finds her? Lively places with lots of people so magical girls have to risk being seen if they want to hunt her?
Maybe floating over a populated plaza, so anyone trying to get into the Barrier has to avoid getting seen by normal humans?

Or maybe someplace underground? An old subway station or something that can only be entered in certain ways, so that even if she gets detected they can't easily get to her?
She's an unemployed adult with no money and no marketable skills. She can live in her parents' basement.

Seriously though, hanging out in infrequently-used portions of buildings where intruders would be detected would be pretty good—what fraction of magical girls would break into someone's house to kill a witch? There also shouldn't be many magical girls who would hunt her high (multiple kilometers) in the sky, so that's still good. The bottom of a lake or river is also a possibility. So is anywhere far enough away from the city, especially if it's in difficult terrain. The last few options would be improved by moving around a bit after we've gotten there—following a witch into a river is one thing, but following it along the riverbed?

You really hope you don't end up regretting this.
Which of your decisions in the last ~60 hours do you not regret?

the only for-sure sapient witch you currently know of, you.
I'd use a colon here.

<...yes?> you answer, confused. <She's in my barrier, and is thus my problem, so of course I'm coming. Why wouldn't I?>
Can't imagine anyone else being better suited for this, huh.

Seeing no reason to linger here any longer, you dispel your illusion from the Canvas, returning it to a void of white.
Without warning anyone. Again.

"It is not that I dislike the idea!" she stresses. "I am simply unused to speaking with others in such an informal manner..."

"...within a relatively friendly context, at least." she adds under her breath, too low for Sayaka to hear.
We already knew she was pretty isolated. Not even her parents, though?

Granted, you're not entirely sure how to feel about being called something that, thanks to Homura, you were in real danger of literally becoming not too long ago, but perhaps that only makes "Ash" even more appropriate.
Also, Yggdrasil is an ash tree, and Ashtaroth has minor plant themes and supports a variety of worlds. Just four at the moment, but we'll get to nine eventually.

"Guess I should've paid more attention in English class..."
"Ashtaroth" isn't English… but all the necessary sounds are present in English, so that doesn't matter too much. Though Sayaka's mispronunciations sounded more like a child encountering a word for the first time, or someone failing to remember a word, than someone struggling with foreign phonology.

You emerge into your barrier's outer layer, which... to put it gently, has clearly seen better days.
Today, for example.

Given that they haven't vanished, you suppose that means Homura's weapons weren't magical... though, you suppose that was already pretty apparent once she pulled out the rocket launcher.
Rocket launchers are magical regardless of provenance.

"I hate how tall this stuff is." Sayaka mutters, trying and failing to look over grass nearly twice her height.
You can't spend your whole life mad about being short, Sayaka.

"Remember, this body is not Tomoe-san. Even before she became a witch, this was merely a shell — the only difference now is that it is empty. Even if Tomoe-san turns out to still remember herself, it... has no use to her, anymore."
I agree—except for the last bit; they can't be sure there's no way to give it back to her—but that hardly changes how anyone would feel about it. People are, for whatever reason, rather attached to their and others' meat.

"There's no point in burying an empty body"
But you would support burying an inhabited body? That seems… backwards.

A corpse is not a character.
Not with that attitude, anyway.

Frankly, it's probably best if it truly is small anyways, because if your barrier keeps gaining additional sections like this, you're going to end up needing a map just to get around.
Do you have a map, Flairina? Now seems about the time that one would become useful.

as though it sprung straight from
Sprang.

A couple of random thoughts:

Kyousuke's hand has no longer been healed. That may cause issues when Sayaka finds out.

How quickly can transformations be cycled? I don't think there's any point to doing that (well, I can think of a few uses, but they're pretty speculative), but it's an interesting question because it's not clear what would influence the answer.
 
We can always spit her back out if she's murderized, right?
I'm... not actually sure?
Tira was completely healed after being subsumed but that might mean we need the dead body? Now if it was a subsumed Mami that gets murderized, then we might be able to just pull out the other body.

Take your pick. The Faas can't express themselves beyond gestures and actions, so if it's hard to tell exactly what they're feeling, that's mostly intentional.
Give them some signs or magical fans that change what's written on them depending on the situation.:p
I'm sure there is a Witch somewhere that could supply them.

I wonder how Mami defines her barrier. Would Sayaka and Tira be allowed out so long as they stayed on their spiritual leashes? They are already prevented from completely leaving the witch's influence.
I guess it depends on if Candeloro is aware of the greater Barrier beyond her own and that she could follow them around. I suspect the main reason she never lets anyone leave her Barrier is that she can't follow them and thus ends up alone.

She's an unemployed adult with no money and no marketable skills. She can live in her parents' basement.
Technically, she's a landlord with two, depending on Shemesh's situation, maybe three people working for her and two tenants. She could also set up a party service with Charlotte and Candeloro, supplying people with everything needed for a tea party. :p
And now I imagine a magical girl stumbling over an advertisement for Ashys party service.:confused:
 
Tira was completely healed after being subsumed but that might mean we need the dead body? Now if it was a subsumed Mami that gets murderized, then we might be able to just pull out the other body.
In theory we really ought to have something sufficiently soul-gem adjacent each to maintain our magical girls. Soul gems can, I believe, generate a whole body from scratch, it just generates a lot of sweet delicious grief in the process(like a whole bag of grief seeds, but if you stick the gem into the bag, then it'll probably sort itself out eventually). But I could easily be wrong about some or all of this.
 
In theory we really ought to have something sufficiently soul-gem adjacent each to maintain our magical girls. Soul gems can, I believe, generate a whole body from scratch, it just generates a lot of sweet delicious grief in the process(like a whole bag of grief seeds, but if you stick the gem into the bag, then it'll probably sort itself out eventually). But I could easily be wrong about some or all of this.
I think the important question is; is creating a whole body/healing the body, part of the Soul Gem function or something that happens because of the soul?
If the soul automatically uses magic to create/heal a body, then we don't have to worry.
If it's a function of the Soul Gem... well, we might have a problem.
 
Regarding the chapter, excellent as always. This story makes me excited about the sheer scope of its possibility... it's not "I want to see event X, and then the final confrontation"; rather, I want to see everything! How will Ashtaroth deal with all the known characters, all the known threats, oh what about those cities that might hold something new, oh and her investigation into witches and familiars...! Anyway, looking forward to the next chapter, as always.

I like that you want to see everything, because I want to write everything. :D If I could just speed my pace up... I've got to stop being so concerned about potentially-awkward sentences that I wouldn't give a second thought to in someone else's work. This perfectionism complex I've apparently contracted needs to get gone.

I do not have much of a history with tea-parties, but I would assume that they are a natural predator of books. Reading would be a distraction from the party and thus frowned upon, no? And books would tend to accrue stains from being in the vicinity and may even *gasp* be improvised into coasters?

Mami, witch or not, is likely too refined to use books as coasters. That said, you are correct that they may not be welcome at the table - they clash with the atmosphere.

Just a sudden artstyle shift, really. Here is a random example, featuring a wendigo of all things. PMMM is normally too sober for this trope, but it's too good not to use in genuinely humorous moments.

Ah, The Ancient Magus' Bride... need to get around to watching that at some point. I know it's supposedly very good, and it seemed fairly creative, but I got like 3 episodes in and got distracted by something else. I'm very much like Ashtaroth in that way. ^^;

Is it going to be the episode intro, then? The lyrics are astonishingly accurate to the story, yet too upbeat for the genre. Nicely contrasts Outer Science.

I think we can find something slightly longer/more modern for Subsumption's "OP", hehe. You aren't wrong about the lyrics being rather accurate though.

Homura might look into what Oriko is up to, but I don't think she has any other reasons to be in Kazamino. At least until Sayaka calls her parents or Madoka.

Actually, I finally settled the question of where Oriko and Kirika live, which has been a question since the eighth story post or so of this thread --- Sadness Prayer officially confirms that Oriko's house IS in fact in Mitakihara, albeit so close to Kazamino that she accidentally meets up with Yuma on a nightly stroll at one point. This allows her and Kirika to operate out of Kazamino at first (in secret), which keeps them from running into Mami or Homura before they're ready to enact their plan (and more sure of who Homura even is). Sasa also goes after them first in Symmetry Diamond when she makes her play to take over Mitakihara, so I'd assume Shirome Middle School is also in Mitakihara, but near Kazamino - Komaki presumably wasn't noticed by Mami only because she went hunting in the middle of the night, at very odd hours (and, ya know, wasn't around that long).

I'm still going to call her Ashy.

That may actually be advised, since Magia Record just introduced a new character named Ashley, whose name also gets shortened to Ash. :| Now this is just gonna be confusing... I swear, MR has access to my planning document or something. There was another idea I've been planning to use in this fic not too long from now, which I found out a few days ago was used in a recent Magia Record event before I could even introduce it here. Now when I finally do get around to it, it's just going to look like I'm playing off of that, instead of having come up with the idea independently long before now. Damn my glacial working pace!

Can't Sayaka just create platforms, to run above the grass? It's not like she has to worry about using too much magic. They really need to find some time for training.

Yeah, but if your front lawn was so tall that you needed a ladder just to see your driveway upon stepping out of the house, you'd probably be kind of annoyed too. Especially if said lawn was comparable in size to a small forest.

She's an unemployed adult with no money and no marketable skills. She can live in her parents' basement.

She's in that awkward phase of her maturity where she still thinks like a child, but looks like an adult, and is starting to have strange thoughts and urges that she doesn't know what to do with. Growing up is hard.

Which of your decisions in the last ~60 hours do you not regret?

A more than fair point. Maybe the best option really WAS to just run off somewhere isolated and become the Hermit Witch.

Though Sayaka's mispronunciations sounded more like a child encountering a word for the first time, or someone failing to remember a word, than someone struggling with foreign phonology.

Shoot, that's what I was trying to avoid. Might meddle with that scene a little at some point to try and improve that.

Rocket launchers are magical regardless of provenance.

As a different Ash once said:
...magic indeed.

Do you have a map, Flairina? Now seems about the time that one would become useful.

I do, but it's currently mental. I may draw up a basic digital version at some point, though I'd like to wait until a little later for that.

Candeloro is supposed to be about the right size to have a tea party with Charlotte IIRC.

Well, things do change about a witch's form depending on the circumstances. Candeloro really COULD end up being nine feet tall if the situation at the time of witching symbolically lent itself to that --- maybe Farseer was unknowingly right. ;)

In theory we really ought to have something sufficiently soul-gem adjacent each to maintain our magical girls. Soul gems can, I believe, generate a whole body from scratch, it just generates a lot of sweet delicious grief in the process(like a whole bag of grief seeds, but if you stick the gem into the bag, then it'll probably sort itself out eventually). But I could easily be wrong about some or all of this.

Don't know if we have official confirmation on this, but given that most magical girls can at least eventually heal serious injuries, it may be possible. Would probably be less grief-inducing for someone like Sayaka with healing powers, and would theoretically even be easy for someone like Niko Kanna (whose magic literally lets her deconstruct objects and reconstruct them as pretty much anything else, including clones of herself). However, there's also evidence against this idea: we see the Souju sister(s) toting around dozens of soul gems at once, with no signs of having issues of them continually trying to remake their bodies (she would never be able to keep enough grief seeds on hand to keep them all clear and shiny like she likes), and the Pleiades Saints have dozens, if not hundreds of soul gems locked in The Freezer, when Juubey can't even keep their soul gems clear. It may just be because those soul gems are "unconscious" from the lack of input/awareness, but it's something to keep in mind.
 
maybe Farseer was unknowingly right.;)
Did I just accidently upscale Candeloro? Oops.

we see the Souju sister(s) toting around dozens of soul gems at once, with no signs of having issues of them continually trying to remake their bodies
I would assume, given that said Gems are most likely not producing grief if they're staying shiny that the Souju's know some means of rendering the Gems inert, ditto for the Pleiades Saints and their Freezer.

It could also be (assuming Meguka can grow new bodies) that The Freezer is simply too hostile so the Gems never try, and that the myriad of movements made by the human body is enough to disrupt attempts by the Souju's collection until the Gems go inactive from lack of stimuli.
 
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Shoot, that's what I was trying to avoid. Might meddle with that scene a little at some point to try and improve that.
It reminded me of Vita messing up Nanoha's name.
Well, things do change about a witch's form depending on the circumstances. Candeloro really COULD end up being nine feet tall if the situation at the time of witching symbolically lent itself to that --- maybe Farseer was unknowingly right. ;)
But think of Candeloro and Charlotte having a tea party! She'd have a friend!
 
Also, Yggdrasil is an ash tree, and Ashtaroth has minor plant themes and supports a variety of worlds. Just four at the moment, but we'll get to nine eventually.
So we've got Asgard, Jötunheim or Niflheim, Midgard, if you count the... middle. And which ones are the two newer additions? Gosh, this is so confusing and I don't know my Norse mythology!

No mention of Saars' forest having vanished or Charlotte's part of the Barrier. So things don't need to get subsumed to get dragged along. Being part of the Barrier is enough.
Let me take this opportunity to explain what happened with the time travel. Like, the complete explanation, everything I understand, all at once. *cracks knuckles*

Where you end up when Homura sends you back in time depends on your save/spawn point, which is at "the beginning of the story". What happened is that Ashy's story takes precedence over the others, so the spawn points were changed to reflect that. Charlotte and Candeloro were likely sent back to their respective labyrinths as normal, but the labyrinths themselves are still part of Ashy's barrier instead of where they would otherwise be. (Not that it would have affected Candeloro much, since she hatched within the barrier and didn't have much time after hatching to do anything or go anywhere.)

Note that the barrier, still including all the people and labyrinths that were subsumed, was sent back to its original time and place as normal. Ergo, Homura's magic just treats the entire barrier as a single entity. That it also resets each individual within the barrier itself seems to indicate that the barrier is considered its own separate world with its own inhabitants, as opposed to a part of the larger real world. Everyone is starting from their respective moment of subsumption (i.e. when they are first included as official "characters" in Ashy's world instead of "intruders"), and the only ones guaranteed to remember events after that are Ashy and designated extensions of herself ("main characters"), since Ashy was specifically the one Homura sent back.

We still don't know how much Charlotte and Candeloro remember of the previous timeline, let alone what they remember of themselves. But déjà vu is to be expected at minimum, since time travel and witch amnesia can't completely undo/obscure memories. I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.

Finally, it's interesting that Ashy's lawn did not reset; it's exactly as ruined as it was before. This is obviously because it was sent back with Ashy, but are the other labyrinths affected the same way?

Okay, rant over. How well did I do?

That said, you are correct that they may not be welcome at the table - they clash with the atmosphere.
Does this mean Ashy and Candeloro are destined to always rub each other the wrong way?

Ah, The Ancient Magus' Bride... need to get around to watching that at some point. I know it's supposedly very good, and it seemed fairly creative, but I got like 3 episodes in and got distracted by something else. I'm very much like Ashtaroth in that way. ^^;
I won't spoil the plot, but I will say this: Elias is a simple character with an interesting past, deaths are portrayed as realistically sad/horrific, the soundtrack is great at setting the mood, fairies are even scarier than you think they are, and the most villainous antagonist has a tragic backstory that makes him easy to sympathize with without excusing or downplaying his villainy. All in all, a great anime.

Actually, I finally settled the question of where Oriko and Kirika live, which has been a question since the eighth story post or so of this thread --- Sadness Prayer officially confirms that Oriko's house IS in fact in Mitakihara, albeit so close to Kazamino that she accidentally meets up with Yuma on a nightly stroll at one point. This allows her and Kirika to operate out of Kazamino at first (in secret), which keeps them from running into Mami or Homura before they're ready to enact their plan (and more sure of who Homura even is). Sasa also goes after them first in Symmetry Diamond when she makes her play to take over Mitakihara, so I'd assume Shirome Middle School is also in Mitakihara, but near Kazamino - Komaki presumably wasn't noticed by Mami only because she went hunting in the middle of the night, at very odd hours (and, ya know, wasn't around that long).
Then there's a decent chance Oriko will show up soonish, if you have that planned. Especially if Ashy shows up in her visions. And if she foresaw Kriemhild Gretchen as well, she has a nonzero chance of arranging another unfriendly meeting between Ashy and Homura.

But this is all speculative; Oriko's actions are predictable, but her visions are not. She typically conspires to handle huge threats as quickly as possible (preferably before they show up), but there's no predicting which threat she has seen.

There was another idea I've been planning to use in this fic not too long from now, which I found out a few days ago was used in a recent Magia Record event before I could even introduce it here.
That probably won't ruin it for me. Good ideas seldom crop up only once, oh ye of authorial angst. And I would know, having guessed some of your plot points and other details with uncanny accuracy! Definitely without peeking at your notes, of course. :V

And speaking of guessing plot points, here I go again. Though I have no confidence that I'm correct this time.
Is it mental worlds? You've kinda established that it's a thing when Sayaka was off in snoozeland, but the idea wasn't explored yet.
You take a moment to briefly take stock of things: in contrast to the outside of your barrier, it's still quite dark inside of it, as, somewhat to your surprise, your illusions are still in place. You kind of figured they'd disappear overnight, but evidently that's not the case. Otherwise, your limbs are all still functional and intact, your grief seems about back up to max, and Sayaka is walking slowly down a hallway- wait, what?

You focus in fully on Sayaka's perspective. The image you're getting from her is rather hazy, but she does indeed appear to be in some sort of dimly lit hall right now. The walls are made of brick, and are lined with weirdly warped-looking posters, at least a couple of which you could almost swear depict you, though the imagery is ultimately too indistinct to be sure. Haunting orchestra music also seems to be coming from somewhere nearby, the sound oddly muffled, as if being either played or heard from underwater.

Confused, you banish a wall of Sayaka's room to look inside, and find her soundly asleep, both of her eyes still closed tight. Okay, so she's still here. In which case, you guess this must be… her dream?

You watch and listen for a few moments longer as Sayaka's perspective moves down the hallway, never seeming to actually get any closer to the end of it. Huh... well, at least you know it's not a dream you'll feel bad waking her up from. Seems kind of creepy, really.
It's a topic to revisit when the magical girls go to sleep, which could happen in the next few chapters or so.

Yeah, but if your front lawn was so tall that you needed a ladder just to see your driveway upon stepping out of the house, you'd probably be kind of annoyed too. Especially if said lawn was comparable in size to a small forest.
Speaking of which, why is that part of the labyrinth design? Is it supposed to be monotonous and generic, easy to get lost in until you eventually wind up in another labyrinth? Or is it supposed to be easy to customize? Or maybe it's meant to make humans feel woefully small, insignificant?
 
Finally, it's interesting that Ashy's lawn did not reset; it's exactly as ruined as it was before. This is obviously because it was sent back with Ashy, but are the other labyrinths affected the same way?
That is actually very interesting. It is my understanding that Homura has to fix her heart every time, so her body does reset. I am also wondering why Homura wasn't pulled back to Ashtaroth's Barrier. Presumably she just overpowered it, but I... I feel as though Homura has been more subsumed than Charlotte or Candeloro. I do see sense in your speculations though.

I always found Ancient Magus' Bride a little uncomfortable. It could, of course, be so much worse, but... I don't feel as though the titular bride ever really had a chance to explore any alternatives to their situation. They seemed to have social expectations that they felt holding them to that life that I don't agree with and suspect would have horrified some of their friends amongst the locals.

The tall grass might be there to hide velociraptors? I suspect that it might be to obscure the path, and might represent being unable to tell her own story during her life. Or perhaps she was prolific with her art but felt it was all the same, with nothing to distinguish one work from another, just a massive mound, all identical like grass. Or it could be a pragmatic effort to overcome the flaw of having an open-plan labyrinth to protect against magical girls who have an extraordinary capacity to travel in a straight line. It doesn't help that she seems to be about the only one that couldn't outright fly...
 
That is actually very interesting. It is my understanding that Homura has to fix her heart every time, so her body does reset. I am also wondering why Homura wasn't pulled back to Ashtaroth's Barrier. Presumably she just overpowered it, but I... I feel as though Homura has been more subsumed than Charlotte or Candeloro. I do see sense in your speculations though.
Barrier's sort of the Witch's soul right? And the soul doesn't reset.
 
Barrier's sort of the Witch's soul right? And the soul doesn't reset.
Does that mean the spent shell casings are also part of her soul? Personally I think this more like Witch Quest, where the barrier is a world onto itself, and all within continues forward. Save Homura, and any other Magic Girl whose wish or magic would supersede that.
 
Note that the barrier, still including all the people and labyrinths that were subsumed, was sent back to its original time and place as normal. Ergo, Homura's magic just treats the entire barrier as a single entity. That it also resets each individual within the barrier itself seems to indicate that the barrier is considered its own separate world with its own inhabitants, as opposed to a part of the larger real world. Everyone is starting from their respective moment of subsumption (i.e. when they are first included as official "characters" in Ashy's world instead of "intruders"), and the only ones guaranteed to remember events after that are Ashy and designated extensions of herself ("main characters"), since Ashy was specifically the one Homura sent back.

We still don't know how much Charlotte and Candeloro remember of the previous timeline, let alone what they remember of themselves. But déjà vu is to be expected at minimum, since time travel and witch amnesia can't completely undo/obscure memories. I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.
Actually, if you're counting the barriers and witches as different entities for Candeloro and Charlotte, making the witches not counting as subsumed, then they shouldn't have been affected by Homura's magic meaning the witches shouldn't have traveled back in time.

There was another idea I've been planning to use in this fic not too long from now, which I found out a few days ago was used in a recent Magia Record event before I could even introduce it here. Now when I finally do get around to it, it's just going to look like I'm playing off of that, instead of having come up with the idea independently long before now.
Bold of you to presume I consume any canon Madoka material :V (don't worry about it)
 
Okay, rant over. How well did I do?
Very well. It makes me curious about what happened with Charlotte and Candeloro though. We know Ashy traveled back as far as possible, back to the moment in time she stopped being a magical girl and started being a Witch.
But what happened with the other Witches? Candeloro shouldn't exist at this point in time, and Charlotte should be a Grief Seed...
Charlotte was a Grief Seed the moment her Barrier fused with Ashys.

So are their Barriers empty, except for their Familiars? Could their Barriers exist without them around? Saar's Barrier is still there but, well Ashy did subsume her.
 
Actually, if you're counting the barriers and witches as different entities for Candeloro and Charlotte, making the witches not counting as subsumed, then they shouldn't have been affected by Homura's magic meaning the witches shouldn't have traveled back in time.
But what happened with the other Witches? Candeloro shouldn't exist at this point in time, and Charlotte should be a Grief Seed...
Charlotte was a Grief Seed the moment her Barrier fused with Ashys.
Their labyrinths are subsumed, so their spawn points changed. Maybe they weren't sent back in time, but that isn't necessary; as long as Ashy is sent back in time, they're guaranteed to land in Ashy's barrier after the reset. That's why I mentioned that amnesia could be a factor in interactions going forward.
 
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Their labyrinths are subsumed, so their spawn points changed. Maybe they weren't sent back in time, but that isn't necessary; as long as Ashy is sent back in time, they're guaranteed to land in Ashy's barrier after the reset. That's why I mentioned that amnesia could be a factor in interactions going forward.
I'm not sure if they are subsumed though. I mean, there are clearly degrees of subsumption, as seen with the incomplete entries into Novella.
There actually should be a difference between Charlotte, with an incomplete entry, and Candeloro, who has no connection to Ashy except for her Barrier. If only because those connections influence how they were affected by Homura's time reset.
Simply touching Homura might be enough for time stop but time travel clearly needs a deeper connection or Homura would have abused that to recruit help. It's obvious that the only reason Ashy was dragged along for the ride was that she was in the process of subsuming Homura's most defining feature, her hairsoul.

Given that Homura and Charlotte both have incomplete entries, I suspect Charlotte got dragged along but I'm less sure with Candeloro. Now, her Familiars could mean she is around but we know from Charlotte that a Barrier/Labyrinth, plus Familiars, don't necessarily need a mature Witch to exist. Maybe they only need a Witch and not necessarily the original Witch.


Then there is the question where they would spawn if they got influenced by Homura's time travel. Ashy apparently replaced her past self and her Barrier completely the moment she hatched/started existing as a Witch because she partially subsumed Homura. Homura, who was partially subsumed, still replaced her past self. Sayaka and Tira didn't replace their past selves, because they are completely subsumed and thus count as part of Ashy.

So going by that, Charlotte, who was also partially subsumed and thus being connected to Homura, would replace her past self and her Barrier the moment her Grief Seed hatches.
That could mean the Barrier still connected to Ashy is empty and Charlotte already replaced her past self or that she stays with Ashy until this timelines Charlotte would start existing and then replaces her, causing her part of the Barrier to vanish from Ashys greater Barrier.

Ugh, this is confusing. We don't even know if Charlotte or Candeloro is still around!:confused:
 
Their labyrinths are subsumed, so their spawn points changed. Maybe they weren't sent back in time, but that isn't necessary; as long as Ashy is sent back in time, they're guaranteed to land in Ashy's barrier after the reset. That's why I mentioned that amnesia could be a factor in interactions going forward.
That raises a very interesting thought; If the witches in Ashy's domain weren't sent back in time like us as you propose and merely dragged 'reset' in their barriers, and given how Homura's time reset seems to make everyone else more or less forget everything after the point in time she returns to, What happens to Candeloro?

Rebellion seems to indicate that once born, a witch is constantly tormented by the memory of whatever drove them to despair in the first place. But if what you suggest is right, Candeloro shouldn't remember *anything* given that she shouldn't exist, so she logically can't be tormented by that memory. So how will that change her behaviour?

So if she starts acting reasonably and less like her Canon-self, we can conclude that the emotional torture is what prompts witches to blindly lash out like they do.

On the other hand if nothing changes, we know that the torment only affects what little of the meguka's soul that remains in a witch and can say once and for all that witches are functionally separate beings to the girls they spawned from.

But all of that assumes the theory to be correct and that we're not simply working on 'Witch-Quest' rules where barriers are unaffected by the time reset and most witches are simply too insane to notice the looping.
 
Their labyrinths are subsumed, so their spawn points changed. Maybe they weren't sent back in time, but that isn't necessary; as long as Ashy is sent back in time, they're guaranteed to land in Ashy's barrier after the reset. That's why I mentioned that amnesia could be a factor in interactions going forward.
A spawn point is irrelevant if the witch in question isn't affected by the respawn in the first place, which they aren't as the premise of this lline of argument was to consider witches distinct entities of their barriers if the latter was subsumed.

Rebellion seems to indicate that once born, a witch is constantly tormented by the memory of whatever drove them to despair in the first place. But if what you suggest is right, Candeloro shouldn't remember *anything* given that she shouldn't exist, so she logically can't be tormented by that memory. So how will that change her behaviour?
In a very practial sense, it means that Flairina can basically take whatever option she wants to write.
 
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