Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC)

hillo315 · Dec 27, 2019

*yawns nocturnally* Okay, new chapter. Here we go.

Flairina said:
For a brief moment, the world seems to inexplicably spiral and fold in on itself. Then it suddenly snaps back into place, and you find yourself moved into a different position than you were in a second ago, with your stalk fully upright and your arms splayed out to the sides, as if resting on something that doesn't exist.

Okay, she definitely went back in time, and is in her starting position to match.

What… what was that? Did it work, or…?

You look down at yourself. Your wounds are gone (again), and you've grown taller (again), with even more black and white branches sticking out of you than before, so you assume it did.

I'm guessing Ashy successfully took something from Homura. The question is what, how much of it, and what effect it will have on everything.

You look around, but the blue-haired magical girl is nowhere to be seen. How is that possible? There is quite literally nowhere to hide in here. Come to think of it, you seem to be missing her sensory input as well. What happened?! Did the bombs actually kill her?!

You quickly flip to Sayaka's page in Novella, it being the only other place you can think of to look. Immediately, you notice that it feels full again, and a wave of relief sweeps through you. You're not exactly sure how she ended up back inside of you, but you're just glad she's not dead.

Sayaka's new save point is inside Novella, which means that the time travel magic considers her part of Ashy. Even time travel is no match for subsumption. Homura doesn't know just how fortunate she is to have escaped in the nick of time.

As soon as Sayaka opens her eyes and looks at you, she stumbles back in surprise. Seeing through her eyes yourself, you immediately realize why.

-new form-
Well. That's… different.

Karma is mutagenic, and evolution ensues. No surprise there. I totally predicted the hair, btw.

I like how the hair flows up into the head, because it's really part of a swirly vortex thingy.

You stare at yourself through Sayaka for a moment, watching your "hair" slowly wave back and forth while the lines where your face would be continue to orbit around a central point.

First of all, really digging the "cosmic Obito" look.

Second of all, I'm pretty sure the hair is wavy because of a Homura mutation.

Did subsuming Homura — oh, you know her first name now — push you past some sort of critical limit?

Understatement. Between nearly subsuming Homura and going back in time, Ashy just inhaled a can's worth of distilled whoopass.

"Heh, just right out in the open?" Harpoon Girl says to herself, twirling the weapon in her hand as she looks up at you. "Pathetic. Make this easier for me why don't ya."

I'm not worried about this fight. Ashy has enough more than enough resources to win this time.

As you wrestle off your instinctual desire to take her while simultaneously cursing every god you can think of (How?! How can your luck possibly be this bad?!), the girl spots Sayaka standing just below you and squints at her.

"...who the hell are you?"

From Hirako's perspective, Sayaka just appeared from thin air.

"And I made this witch." Hirako finishes as her weapon makes a full loop around and soars back towards her, allowing her to snatch it back out of the air. "She's mine. Now get out of here, or the next one's going through your head."

Welp. There goes my sympathy.

She looks around at the illusion you've made — or rather, are still making, since instead of having it just appear this time, you're letting the image "sweep" over The Canvas as if revealing the area's true form, which you figure will sell it better.

Ooh, yes. More trickster shenanigans.

…and Hirako just laughs, turning to look directly at you despite there already being several different obstructions in the way.

"You think something like THAT will hide you from ME?" she cackles. "Like I said, pathetic. Now, let's see what else you're hiding."

Her eyes flash a brilliant green for a scant moment. Through Sayaka, you see her mouth begin to quirk into another cruel grin…

Her eyes can see the truth? How troublesome...

and then, just as quickly, it drops away.

"Wait, what the hell?! You're not- how the fu-"

Surprise, witch! The international magical girl of mystery was an Ashtoreth all along.

"…you know what, screw this!" she suddenly shouts.

Before either you or Sayaka can react, Hirako spins around and somehow tears the portal to the rest of the barrier back open. The axe head on her weapon retracts as she "pretends" to throw it again, and the harpoon takes off into the sky, carrying Hirako out of the Canvas entirely. Wha- hold on, is she seriously just leaving?!

Come back here, you coward! Boo, hiss.

But in all seriousness, that anticlimax is actually pretty funny.

Hirako: I made this witch. I'll kill this witch. You can't stop me.
Sayaka: No. Leave.
Hirako: No.
Sayaka: Then die.
Hirako: Wait, you're a Ashtabot? How can this be?
Sayaka: Die.
Hirako: No. I'm leaving.
Ashtaroth: wut

Sayaka falters. "Well, no, but… I mean, it was for Madoka earlier! I just don't feel it anymore, which… I guess means that the danger passed...."

What put Madoka in questionable danger? Kyubey, probably.

Did she think that, as a witch, you'd eventually return to the scene of your death for some reason? You certainly weren't planning on it if so.

You rapidly deconstructed the trope of "I'm haunting this spot because I was killed here." You then proceeded to break it over your knee and throw it in the rubbish bin.

<Sayaka, Homura just crushed us.> you interrupt. <I managed to get off one good trick on her that I guarantee you will not work again. Even if we floated back towards Mitakihara at top speed, what exactly do you think we'd even be able to DO to her when we got there?>

Even worse, what if there is another Sayaka in Mitakihara? DUN DUN DUUUN!!!

Sayaka stops and shakes her head angrily. "But, I guess I was wrong! The girl was just a maniac... I mean, what kind of magical girl uses explosives?! Not to mention all the guns!

Sayaka being Sayaka. This reaction is canon.

She didn't even care that I was there, or that killing you could kill me! She heard what I said, but she didn't actually listen to me at all! She just bulldozed on ahead because she thought she knew better, and now she's-! She's-! Why…?!"

This fic in a nutshell, ladies and germs.

Sayaka looks away, furiously brushing away tears. Given the way that brief tirade devolved, even you can tell that she's not nearly as upset about the "transfer student" trying to kill her as she is about Mami doing the same.

Surprisingly insightful of Ashy. Being Sayaka for a day must have really helped her understand what it's like to be Sayaka. From now on, Ashy should make a habit of knowing everyone she subsumes, because peace and understanding is objectively the best thing that can come from this curse. (Well, that and unlimited power.

)

[-] Go inspect the rest of your barrier. You just lost a lot of familiars, and you should probably at least check that nothing is still on fire.
[-] Head towards where Mami's labyrinth formed. You're not looking forward to dealing with that issue, but you'll have to do it eventually…

If the barrier was completely reset, both of these options are pointless. Why do I get the feeling that officially introducing Tira is inevitable?

You didn't actually think I was about to go straight into another fight, did you?

Erm, yes?

Flairina said:
-And Again

Filled it in. This is the time travel magic.

Nottheunmaker said:
Hmm, though this does seem to make Mikihara location non-gratta. Not if Ash and Sayaka think they've only teleported, not time traveled.

Even if they knew it's time travel, Mikihara would still be too risky. It's reasonable to assume that Homura would retain her memories of the events that never happened.

Yes, Mikihara. Where everyone is Sayaka.

Filraen said:
I wonder if Ashtaroth was a newborn witch from Hirako's point of view.

Yes, she is a newborn witch. That's why Hirako didn't notice her suddenly get more powerful. If anyone should notice anything amiss (other than Sayaka's presence), it's Kyubey.

*or maybe there isn't another Tira/Sayaka? after all there isn't a second Homura even after turning back time

Under normal circumstances, that should be the case. But also under normal circumstances, we should expect Sayaka to go back to where she started at the beginning of the timeline. Ergo, I'm pretty sure the time travel treats this Sayaka as Ashtaroth.

Nervos Belli said:
So judging from the fact there weren't two Ashtaroth's, it seems like Ashtaroth replaced her past self in the same way Homura does. I wonder if the same applies to everyone she has subsumed. Did Sayaka, Tira, and Saar all just disappear? That could make for interesting consequences.

Homura: Drat! Going back in time somehow didn't fix everything! One more reset without that odd witch should do the trick...

beth2 said:
We sure do like naming things. Even when they don't really need it.

~~Ashy would get along with Mami, then.~~ Wait, never mind.

Well, that's a depressing name.

The name probably changed after Homura took a turn for the cynical. It says in her interlude that she just assumes she'll always go back in time for another round now.

OnceMoreWithFeel said:
I aahm a giaantt spihdar.

Hwee ahrr a giaant boohk.

soulsguardian said:
I think I know what iw going to happen because we absorbed some small something's from homura
We're going to be getting pulled into her tine stop and leap
Because We are technically touching her

That would be awesome, and it does seem consistent with the mechanics of both Homura's and Ashy's magic. Not only does it guarantee that Ashy is doomed to go back in time until somebody just kills her, but it also gives her as much time as she needs to explore as many cities as possible, getting more and more powerful along the way. Eventually, she might just eclipse Walpurgisnacht and decide to become Homura's problem all over again, this time immune to the time manipulation.

SaltyWaffles said:
Anyway, the weird thing is that Ashtaroth is, timeline wise, not where she should be. She became a Witch well after the date Homura travels back in time to. So what the heck happened?

My guess is that the time travel runs on narrative logic, not physics. Ashy traveled back to "the beginning of the story", but her story does not have the same starting point as Homura's story. Basically what @Powerofmind said.

unObservant said:
I can't remember ever really trying, but CAN we even un-Subsume a Witch?

In theory, yes. If that treacherous curse doesn't get in the way.

TacitSoliloquy said:
(suspiciously somewhat reminiscent of Homura herself, at that)

I'm not saying you're wrong about there being a mutation specific to Homura, but... You seem to be insinuating that Homura is literally the only character with that kind of hairstyle. *glances sideways at Flairina*

karmaoa said:
Subsuming other magical girls only let Ashy grow a bit. Homura, on the other hand, seemed to change her much more and also changed Novella. Maybe Ashy doesn't subsume their magical power/potential but their history?
Would explain why there is such a difference between the reaction to most magical girls/Witches and Homura.

Those concepts are closely linked. Homura has a long history, and therefore lots of karma.

Could we get a partial entry in Novella from subsuming her weapon?

If that actually works, the weapon should be equivalent to a familiar.

The "You're not" was probably about Sayaka not being a magical girl.

Or about Sayaka not being Ashtaroth, because she couldn't believe what she was seeing. I think we need Word of God or another chapter to explain away the ambiguity.

She's going to come back. If she has an idea about Sayaka's nature, probably with reinforcement.
...
If she can find people willing to work with her.

Inb4 Ashy is Sengeitsu's final boss by the end of the month. Seriously, if the city's magical girls don't join arms to fight the witch or run away, they're liable to join their natural enemy up to several girls at a time.

If she can feel parts of her missing, she's probably going to try to do something about it while keeping Madoka safe.

Which begs the question of which parts are missing and whether Homura can tell.

veekie said:
If we wander off somewhere else it'd be funny since Homura would dismiss it as a one off aberrance(it happens apparently), until we show up later in some loop to try to figure out why we get dragged back in time.

Or Ashy can play it safe... by complaining to Homura over the phone, miles away from Mitakihara. Oh, and she can use multiple mouthpieces at once, just so Homura knows exactly who is talking.

[X] Bring Tira back out of Novella. No matter what you're doing next, you might as well get her settled in now so you're not trying to catch her up even further later.

karmaoa · Dec 27, 2019

veekie said:
If we wander off somewhere else it'd be funny since Homura would dismiss it as a one off aberrance(it happens apparently), until we show up later in some loop to try to figure out why we get dragged back in time.

This would be even funnier because it wouldn't be the Ashy that Homura knows, but buff!Ashy after subsuming something like a dozen Witches and magical Girls.

TMTM™ said:
Oh boy, this gives me flashbacks to that spider witch quest. Also is there now another Sayaka where the original was, or is our Sayaka the only Sayaka? Can we start a collection?

...
We can now get magical Girl Mami, Witch!Sayaka, and Witch!Tira to complete our collection. Sadly, magical girl Charlotte and magical girl Saar will be forever out of reach.

Tom Fyuri said:
That said, uh, is Homura going to be main antagonist now? And will Sayaka rapidly lose friends because everyone will assume she is a fake one?

Depends, if Fate Stay Night exists in PMMM, Sayaka can just insist on being this timelines Archer. The fighting with swords and shooting them part even fits!

Filraen said:
To my undertanding of PMMM, Homura's potential increased because her wish is tied to Madoka, but she can't access that potential because Homura already made her wish. That extra potential, however, is explicitly acknowledged in the fic:

I don't think Ashy can feel potential. We didn't get any reaction from the Witchstincts while sitting on the same table as Madoka.

beth2 said:
Ashtaroth currently thinks it's the 28th.

Oh, right. So the moment Ashy finds a newspaper, we get the next panic attack.

hillo315 said:
Homura doesn't know just how fortunate she is to have escaped in the nick of time.

hillo315 said:
Those concepts are closely linked. Homura has a long history, and therefore lots of karma.

I mentioned earlier that Ashy can't, apparently, sense karma/potential. Otherwise, our reaction to Madoka would have been interesting.

hillo315 said:
Which begs the question of which parts are missing and whether Homura can tell.

Her back.

At least going by the Interlude.

TacitSoliloquy · Dec 27, 2019

hillo315 said:
I'm not saying you're wrong about there being a mutation specific to Homura, but... You seem to be insinuating that Homura is literally the only character with that kind of hairstyle. *glances sideways at Flairina*

I... don't understand this perspective. Correlation is not mutually exclusive with like things. The point was that Ashtaroth's profile silhouette seems a lot more like that of Homura right after subsuming part of that very individual; the two aspects together seem perhaps related. That other people may share similar aesthetic is... true and irrelevant? They weren't the ones who just got partially assimilated, even if Ashtaroth also looks more like them for them looking similar to Homura. I'm confused by the confusion.

Which begs the question of which parts are missing and whether Homura can tell.

Yeah, that could get... awkward. I believe everyone can generally agree that the word "intense" can be used to describe Homura. If we have something that she wants back... well I for one would not relish the idea of having her focus upon me as an enemy. She's rather determined, and I imagine would be quite keen to get back anything known to be missing, and even if it can't actually be returned, I doubt that that will stop her from trying to make it work anyway. Her deciding Ashtaroth to be a priority problem could be itself quite the priority problem. Too, though, because she is such an intense person, the impact of any change to her could be quite significant. Just imagine what might result from altering her personality or mind a little; a slight loss of compassion might see her accept drastic escalation to seemingly insane or ruthless acts even by her current standards, or the like, and though Ashtaroth could certainly benefit from having a bit of her resolve, that's really not something that Homura herself should lose.

Or Ashy can play it safe... by complaining to Homura over the phone, miles away from Mitakihara.

Come to think of it, that might seriously be a good idea, actually. It would likely be hampered by Ashtaroth's current fear that Homura may be some sort of long-range teleporter, but if communication could be established without actually being right in front of her to incite more impulsive action of simply trying to immediately eliminate Ashtaroth as a factor then and there, something more manageable might develop. Her wariness and desire to understand the situation to better control it might see her actually listen. I think it'd be something of a tossup between her actually caring and heeding Ashtaroth over just making plans to ditch her phone and change Madoka's number every loop or something, but it'd be a start towards making something more productive. If nothing else, Ashtaroth might manage to make cooperation just seem less troublesome if she can manage to pester Homura enough while staying alive; following her through looping and carrying doppelgangers of Madoka's friends certainly has the potential to complicate things.

Filraen · Dec 27, 2019

karmaoa said:
I don't think Ashy can feel potential. We didn't get any reaction from the Witchstincts while sitting on the same table as Madoka.

I don't see why it should be different: so far we can only perceive through Sayaka whatever Sayaka normally can perceive (for example, her vision has been impaired by things like blood and having her eyes closed). If Sayaka can't detect magic potential by herself it makes sense we can't detect magic potential through her.

EDIT: On top of that, so far we can only directly access physical inputs from Sayaka (sight, hunger, sleepiness, etc.), not magical senses (her knight sense); detecting magical potential, even if Sayaka could do it, would be the latter thus out of our direct reach now.

Hastur orange · Dec 27, 2019

Nottheunmaker said:
Of course it sucks for Sayaka, because as it's been pointed out, now she can't go home. Same for Tira. They have to live with the sucky aspects of Homura's looping. Worse even, because they don't know they're looping, so whatever they're doing can be ripped away from right under they're feet.

It also makes wishing the three of them separate a non solution, because they don't have a place to go. Ash is a witch, she can go wherever, but the humans can't go home without intruding on their own lives. And even the most optimistic outcome, where the families decide they're happy to suddenly have twins is torpedoed, because they'll just get ripped away from it when Homura resets.

Man, time travel has made everything so much worse.

Though narratively, I'm also glad Sayaka stayed. Her and Ash did a lot of character development together, and it would be terrible to see one half of it reset. Their current relationship is a far cry from where they started, and you can feel the trust they're building. They're stuck in a crap situation and don't even know it, but they'll have each other for support.

Congratulations you just made me kinda ship them. on a more serious note going to a another city to collect more witches seems like a good idea Do after taking care of both of Tira and Candeloro

Powerofmind · Dec 27, 2019

SpeckofStardust said:
Now I may have very well missed this in earlier part of the story but.
timeline one your stating it went -witchout to run to return to body to story start- and second time line we just reached the point where ashy should have ran because we came at witchout.
Im stating the first timeline - stabbing happen, ashy took forever to actually witch and Hirako left due to boredom to come back later.
This timeline - stabbing happened we came back before Hirako left during the first timeline.

Uh, no. I'm saying in timeline one, we begin the story with Ash witching out, and she then spends 5 updates goofing off before Hirako shows up, at which point she starts yanking her barrier around to get away from her.

Hirako specifically did this so she could get a grief seed. Assuming she's not a serial killer (which can be inferred from the pre-reboot story), she's desperate enough to kill other MG's that she can't afford to 'wander off bored'.

hillo315 said:
My guess is that the time travel runs on narrative logic, not physics. Ashy traveled back to "the beginning of the story", but her story does not have the same starting point as Homura's story. Basically what @Powerofmind said.

Nah. The stories start at the same time. The evidence as-presented in Mitakihara is that from the moment the quest started to us getting there and messing things up, it had only been a few days since Homura looped. Conveniently, we spent almost exactly the same amount of time goofing off in the stratosphere prior to our visit.

I wasn't saying that the time travel itself followed narrative logic, I was saying that narrative logic rather conveniently allowed Ashteroth to fit nicely into Homura's time travel shenanigans without anything being forced to fit from a time perspective.

Farseer Sen'Zabl · Dec 27, 2019

So Homura did indeed escape, unfortunate but at least we got a power boost and kept the raspberry.

One thing we can conclude from our return to where we died/were born is that Ashy's existance isn't just a fluke of a single timeline, she clearly exists in the background but prior to this point either never made it to Mitakihara or presumably died without encountering Homura. Given how quickly Harpoon-girl was upon her this time it may be that in most timelines Ashy doesn't escape and perishes, chooses a different city to visit, or simply doesn't develop intellect beyond normal witch levels.

OnceMoreWithFeel said:
I aahm a giaantt spihdar.

Lets hope Napalm is out of napalm. As a giant book we're a touch flammable as is, no assistance required nor desired.

[-] ~~Bring Tira back out of Novella. No matter what you're doing next, you might as well get her settled in now so you're not trying to catch her up even further later.~~
Lets deal with our other roomies first. we have a whole journey ahead of us to handle Tira, but Candeloro and Charlotte (assuming they are with us) need to be adressed lest they become problems.

[-] Go inspect the rest of your barrier. You just lost a lot of familiars, and you should probably at least check that nothing is still on fire.
[-] Head towards where Mami's labyrinth formed. You're not looking forward to dealing with that issue, but you'll have to do it eventually…
[-] Find Charlotte and Best-planetoid; issue 'Thanks for saving our metaphorical bacon' head-pats.

SpeckofStardust · Dec 27, 2019

Powerofmind said:
Uh, no. I'm saying in timeline one, we begin the story with Ash witching out, and she then spends 5 updates goofing off before Hirako shows up, at which point she starts yanking her barrier around to get away from her.

Ya no Cannon has people close to the witch physically close to the location mind you, as ending up in the barrier with said witch. Unless you can explain why Hirako wasnt next to the Ashy when she's the one who stabbed her then and why she took longer the first time to enter said barrier...

FromTheFuture · Dec 27, 2019

Hmm...
Do the branches that Ashtaroth has represent the things that make her up?
Because it kinda makes sense, if black and white represent witches and magical girls, and short branches represent unfinished profiles or a incomplete subsumption. Assuming this is true, the six of them definitely match her components (Ashtaroth, Saar, Sayaka, a portion of Charlotte through her familiars, Tira, and a portion of Homura). Well, it's just a guess I guess.

hillo315 · Dec 27, 2019

FromTheFuture said:
Do the branches that Ashtaroth has represent the things that make her up?

Are they branches or roots? What happens when they are severed?

unObservant · Dec 27, 2019

SpeckofStardust said:
Ya no Cannon has people close to the witch physically close to the location mind you, as ending up in the barrier with said witch. Unless you can explain why Hirako wasnt next to the Ashy when she's the one who stabbed her then and why she took longer the first time to enter said barrier...

Given the massive variety of Witches, maybe it can sometimes be risky to be in a Barrier before it's fully formed? Lava lakes filling up before the pathways across them appear, scaffolding across an empty void but by the time it forms you're already floating away, that sort of thing. Sure, there's a chance of catching a Witch off guard or unprepared that way, but Hirako might not have thought it worth the risk and backed off.

As for why this Hirako entered sooner though... lots of possibilities. When we woke up we were much taller - maybe we blanked out for a bit from sorting out the bit of Homura we got (and Candeloro and Charlotte, if my earlier theory pans out), so we only truly woke up just before she entered? Maybe being stronger than it should have been butterflied Proto-Ashtaroth into taking longer to Subsume its former body, like people have theorized caused the Ashtaroth we know and love to happen? In the first timeline, we saw Hirako when she was still by the road and snarling at passing cars - maybe she nearly got hit by one or someone tried to stop and investigate the massive bloodstain, but that didn't happen here somehow so she went in immediately? Maybe our talk and our paranoid vigil for a hostile teleporter just went on for way longer than it sounded narratively? We don't have many clues due to our focus on talking to Sayaka and looking inside our Barrier rather than outside, so hopefully the next update helps on that front.

KillingYouNicely · Dec 28, 2019

Honestly, something that I'm interested in is Kyubey's reaction to a second Magical Girl he didn't create. Homura on her own is a curiosity, but with Sayaka on that bandwagon now too it's going to look more and more like Kyubey has a rival, and how the mascot reacts to that will be interesting.

Flairina · Dec 28, 2019

InfiniteTangent said:
Probably too recent to have influenced this design, but the overall shape, including the mermaid dress and protrusions on the arms remind me of DMC 5 Artemis. (Sort of the lifefiber head and Artemis' open head too, now that I'm squinting and reaching too hard.) These can be attributed to Kyoko, Sayaka, and Ragyo though which are much more likely and/or confirmed.

True... however, DMC is certainly in the same general vicinity as the third character inspiration for Rashmisreya, so you're closer than you think.

Also, those aren't arms.

Nottheunmaker said:
Going straight to Mami's new home isn't going to help Sayaka at all, and unhappy Sayaka's make for unhappy Ash's. Her familiars might force the issue if they're causing problems in the barrier though.

Now why would they do that? As I believe I've said before, surely having this many different familiars in one place with no real supervision cannot possibly end poorly!

And I've now learned Harpoon girl's name! And that she's exactly as much of a bitch as I thought she was.

...yeah, pretty much. I think I've at least improved upon the reasons as to WHY from the last version though.

I also didn't expect Sayaka to take Mami's actions so badly. I figured she'd be more upset about her turning into a witch then Mami ignoring she might be killing her. Sayaka had an image of Mami the hero, and instead she got Mami the hardliner. You really know how to make me feel for the poor girl.

Mami turning into Candeloro is definitely upsetting, but the factors that led to it are just as much so, I'm afraid.

soulsguardian said:
Seems we're shit out of luck yet again
Homuras loop conveniently starts right when we turned into a witch
So no humanity for us I guess

Not exactly correct, but yes, humanity remains firmly outside of your grasp. Slipped right through your ribbons, it did.

Powerofmind said:
We steamrolled canon almost instantaneously; it was like, what, barely an entire week between Ashteroth's adventure and OOPS EVERYTHING ON FIRE?

Not quite - Ashtaroth's little adventure started some time in the morning on Saturday, and then ended on Monday morning with... well, this. So, not even an entire week. It took two days.

Nervos Belli said:
I have never heard of Homura's potential increasing over the course of her time loops before. If that were the case, you would think she would become capable of defeating Waluiginight on her own in short order. Homura has always been a skill type over a power type. Madoka's potential increases, but that's because all the loops are centered around protecting her. At least from what I recall, there is nothing to suggest the people time travelling are getting a power boost.

Filraen said:
To my undertanding of PMMM, Homura's potential increased because her wish is tied to Madoka, but she can't access that potential because Homura already made her wish.

Filraen is roughly correct, at least in so far as I am choosing to interpret it. Whether or not this applies to Ashtaroth, Glasses!Homura's translated doppel description in Magia Record (not the official one; the English translators cut that part out) seems to confirm that she accumulates karma for herself every time she loops as well. While it's difficult to tell if it affects her own magic (time stop already being a sort of all or nothing deal) it certainly seems to affect her witch, and given Homulilly's apparent power in Rebellion, as well as that of her familiars, this would only seem to make sense anyways.

As for why this is... well, I'm not going to get into it much here, mostly because it may show up later in the fic proper later on, but keep in mind that Kyubey describes Madoka's potential as increasing to such levels because Homura is pinning the fates of ever more worlds upon her with each loop. But is Madoka really the only one this cycle relies on?

SaltyWaffles said:
How the heck did Harpoon Girl just tear her way out of the barrier? I thought getting out of a Barrier was no easy feat unless you were already at the entrance?

She did go back to the entrance. She tore her way out of the Canvas to exit to the outer barrier (your "lawn"), then used her harpoon to fly back to where she came in, and left from there. While in flight that way, she's quite fast.

unObservant said:
...On a related note: I can't remember ever really trying, but CAN we even un-Subsume a Witch? 'Cause screw Candeloro, but I want Best Roommate back!

You have not made an attempt at this as of yet.

unObservant said:
This is new, however. Maybe some kind of extension from her whole "only hear what's important" shtick?

Nope - though she's kept her basic theme, Hirako's wish and subsequent wish powers have been changed from the original. I thought the idea of a magical girl who made a wish that almost deliberately handicapped/screwed her over was interesting at the time, but the concept grew stale on me after a while, so I chose not to use that here. Hirako's circumstances and reasons for contracting are still the same as the original (not that they were ever really gone into there), but her actual wish was quite different, and a fair bit less stupid... though, the actual result of it was perhaps even worse for her.

Crusader Jerome said:
I'm glad Ashy kept Sayaka, though, if only because she needs the companionship (and a lone witch/person makes for less interesting reading).

Nottheunmaker said:
Though narratively, I'm also glad Sayaka stayed. Her and Ash did a lot of character development together, and it would be terrible to see one half of it reset.

I'm in full agreement with both sentiments. Though a total wipe could be interesting, spending this long working up to "and then it all reset" would be extremely dissatisfying for me to write, and I imagine to read as well. Witch Quest could get away with it because it updated pretty fast and regularly, and was going for a sillier overall tone most of the time. I do not think this fic could do the same without it feeling like a huge waste of everyone's time.

Powerofmind said:
It took five updates for Hirako to find Ash originally. Updates Ash spent leaving Canvas, using all of her abilities experimentally, and spending at least several minutes trying to force the memory of her name out of herself.

In this timeline, Ash... had a chance to share a verbal wtf with Sayaka. Hirako breached immediately after. I'm inclined to go with my interpretation.

Huh... lots of speculation on this subject, which I didn't at all expect. Unfortunately, as much as I love the discussion, I'm afraid I have to admit I wasn't really intending to imply any sort of time difference regarding Hirako's entry. Do note that the first few updates were spent by Ashtaroth mostly in thought, and were much shorter than updates as they are now, so the total number of actions and time taken to accomplish them wasn't actually all that different. To wit:

-Fic Start: Ashtaroth observes her own witch-ness, realizes her memory issues, considers what being a witch might mean for her, experiments for a minute or two with her body and powers, and looks outside to find Hirako just as she's about to walk in.
-Fic Present: Ashtaroth observes her own intact-ness, realizes Sayaka is missing (and subsequently finds her), considers her new look, attempts to extract Homura only to realize she's gone, stays on guard for a potential ambush for about a minute, and looks outside... just after Hirako walked in.

So yeah, this mystery was not really meant to be a mystery. Sorry!

beth2 said:
There are at least three places to hide in here.

Really? Inside Novella, underneath Tome, and... where else?

beth2 said:
And "letters", huh? I guess witches use an alphabet (I assume that in-universe witch runes aren't just ciphered Latin characters; that would be extremely odd).

For simplicity's sake, let's just assume that whether or not that's the case, I'm going to write things as if they were. ^_^;

beth2 said:
Hey. Ash. You talked to this girl. Ask her what your name was.

Potentially worth a shot, yes. Even assuming names were given though, how likely is it that a girl who forced someone else to witch out even bothered remembering their name?

beth2 said:
We sure do like naming things. Even when they don't really need it.

The author also likes naming things, because it makes it easier to talk about said things in the story than when you haven't bothered to define them.

karmaoa said:
Confirmation that Wish magic is cheaper for the magical girl that made the Wish than other kinds of magic.

Keep in mind that Ashtaroth is not all knowing. Not saying she's not right, but... well, she was only a magical girl for a month, after all. If you asked her about the "magic sense" for example, which pretty much all magical girls have to at least some degree, she'd have had no idea what you were talking about. Take her assumptions with a grain of salt until otherwise proven.

karmaoa said:
Given magical girl fights, that must be a lot of blood.

Wasn't much of a fight, really.

hillo315 said:
I totally predicted the hair, btw.

Indeed, Ashtaroth has obtained Homura's most important magic - her hair care secrets!

(There's an alternative explanation for why Ashtaroth would have gained such features that no one's mentioned yet, by the way.)

hillo315 said:
Welp. There goes my sympathy.

Eh, Hirako wouldn't want it anyways.

hillo315 said:
Yes, Mikihara. Where everyone is Sayaka.

I mean... there IS the "Mamihara" from Homura Tamura, so this is not as out there an idea as one might think.

Powerofmind said:
Nah. The stories start at the same time. The evidence as-presented in Mitakihara is that from the moment the quest started to us getting there and messing things up, it had only been a few days since Homura looped. Conveniently, we spent almost exactly the same amount of time goofing off in the stratosphere prior to our visit.

Sorry, but nope. As previously stated, Homura loops back to the 16th of March, while Ashtaroth became a witch on the 26th.

SpeckofStardust said:
Ya no Cannon has people close to the witch physically close to the location mind you, as ending up in the barrier with said witch. Unless you can explain why Hirako wasnt next to the Ashy when she's the one who stabbed her then and why she took longer the first time to enter said barrier...

You could potentially intuit why Hirako didn't immediately enter from the information already available, actually. Though, it admittedly may be a bit more difficult in this version.

Gnarker · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
(There's an alternative explanation for why Ashtaroth would have gained such features that no one's mentioned yet, by the way.)

The more magic she subsumes, the more humanlike she becomes?

IllegibleScream · Dec 28, 2019

Gnarker said:
The more magic she subsumes, the more humanlike she becomes?

I'm thinking, she went back and subsumed HERSELF.

InfiniteTangent · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
DMC is certainly in the same general vicinity as the third character inspiration for Rashmisreya, so you're closer than you think.

Well, that immediately makes me think of Bayonetta, which suddenly makes the lifefibers-as-hair design stand out. Then the symbol on the chest is like the umbran watch + eye as Bayo wears it, like her smash symbol, but rotated.

Damian45 · Dec 28, 2019

[X] Bring Tira back out of Novella. No matter what you're doing next, you might as well get her settled in now so you're not trying to catch her up even further later

unObservant · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
Indeed, Ashtaroth has obtained Homura's most important magic - her hair care secrets!

(There's an alternative explanation for why Ashtaroth would have gained such features that no one's mentioned yet, by the way.)

Explanation just dumb enough to work: We started Subsuming Homura from behind. Did she wake up with a new haircut? Was her former hairdo awesome enough to give us a trait all its own after we stole it?

SpeckofStardust · Dec 28, 2019

unObservant said:
Explanation just dumb enough to work: We started Subsuming Homura from behind. Did she wake up with a new haircut? Was her former hairdo awesome enough to give us a trait all its own after we stole it?

If she stole homura's hair she is going to kill us to get it back, after all changes to the soul remain between loops, ripping the witch apart and taking back her hair could be done

karmaoa · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
Now why would they do that? As I believe I've said before, surely having this many different familiars in one place with no real supervision cannot possibly end poorly!

What do you mean "with no real supervision"!? Obviously, Shemesh is going to make sure everything is ordered and tidy.
...Wait a moment.

Farseer Sen'Zabl · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
Indeed, Ashtaroth has obtained Homura's most important magic - her hair care secrets!

... Look what you made me do.

By A Hair's Breadth
-----
Homura's eyes twitched as she glared at the mirror.

Or rather, at her hair which for the first time she could recall since the start of her career as a Magical girl looked horrifically unkempt; random hairs stuck up in whatsoever direction that took their fancy, half her hair was trying to curl, whilst the other half hung limp and split off in different directions.

The less said about her fringe, the better.

It wasn't that she was vain, no. Homura only really cared for her appearance because it made dealing with other people easier, if her hair looked like a mess Madoka would take her less seriously, Sayaka would mock her incessantly, and eventually Mami would track her down and scold her for bringing shame upon Magi with her appearance before tying her up, and inflicting a horror like few Homura had encountered in her many attempts to save Madoka;

Mami would style her hair into those horrifically impractical drills.

Homura shuddered at the thought, or maybe it was the coating of cooled water from a dozen showers spent vainly trying to bring her hair into compliance. Either way, Homura grabbed her towel and finished drying her hair once more, before grabbing her hairbrush and hair straighteners and setting about trying to fix her hair the old-fashioned way.

A bad ten minutes and a few minor burns later, she discarded the Straighteners and ignored the smell of melting plastic from the bin in favour of glaring at her -somehow worse- hair.

Magic wouldn't fix it, the brush wasn't cutting it, and of all the hair-care products she'd 'acquired' were half the reason she'd spent most of the night in the shower. Finally, with a snarl she cursed that witch and whatever it had done to her and set about solving her hair problems the only way she had left.

As she carefully pulled a handful of her hair into the correct place and set about carefully winding it into shape Homura decided she would be patrolling a bit more intently around Hitomi's family mansion.

-----
Homura calmly finished her introduction to the class, before taking the only available seat. That it happened to be near to Madoka was nice, that it put Sayaka and Madoka behind her…

"Hey Madoka, check out the braids on the transfer student" the bluette whispered to her pinkette neighbour.

"I know, they're really cute!" she replied, slightly louder than miss Miki, and noticeably more pleasantly "I bet she's a really nice person, once you get to know her"

"Yo, Braids, got a spare pencil?" Sayaka enquired, a hint of 'friendly' mockery in her voice as she coined what would be the time-travellers nickname for this loop.

Dutifully, coolly, and without looking Homura lent one spare pencil to what would no doubt be her biggest annoyance for this loop. And slowly began to notice how all the in class whispering was starting to sound alarmingly similar to Miki and Madoka's dialogue.
Carefully concealing an eye twitch and smothering a growl, Homura quickly promised herself where she'd be going once the Incubator had been seen off;

She had a book burning to attend, and that witch would be getting front row tickets.

-----
Ashtaroth felt a chill crawl up whatever it was that passed for her spine and a sudden urge to find the witch of Fire-Extinguishers and subsume her.

"Hey, you okay? Is that girl back?" Sayaka asked, summoning her swords once more and looking around as if searching for a target.

<It's nothing, just a breeze or something> Ashtaroth replied, before nonchalantly reaching back and flicking her galaxy-line hair.

…

<What?> The witch of Subsumption asked, as Sayaka stared at her looking rather perplexed, before shrugging, reaching back;

And unconsciously flicking her own, shorter hair.
-----

Edit: Spell check.

FromTheFuture · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
(There's an alternative explanation for why Ashtaroth would have gained such features that no one's mentioned yet, by the way.)

Is Ashtaroth being/having more Magical girl than Witch this alternative explanation? I mean, Ashtaroth always had more Witch until maybe now if you consider her as part of the equation, but if Homura contributed a bit more than Charlotte's familiars, then that'd tip it in the MG's favor. And considering the symbolism strewn nature of witches, that kind of maybe significant change in balance could be reflected in some way, in this case a slightly more humanish look.

Kalibrius · Dec 28, 2019

You know I could actually see that happening
And homura might for once act not to save madoka but out of sheer anger
There are 3 things you never mess with or talk about when it comes to the fairer gender: their age, weight, and hair
You dig your grave if you do

Nottheunmaker · Dec 28, 2019

Flairina said:
Now why would they do that? As I believe I've said before, surely having this many different familiars in one place with no real supervision cannot possibly end poorly!

What if I said I don't believe you?

Flairina said:
...yeah, pretty much. I think I've at least improved upon the reasons as to WHY from the last version though.

Unlike in reality, where people can be massive bitches for no reason whatsoever.

FromTheFuture said:
Is Ashtaroth being/having more Magical girl than Witch this alternative explanation? I mean, Ashtaroth always had more Witch until maybe now if you consider her as part of the equation, but if Homura contributed a bit more than Charlotte's familiars, then that'd tip it in the MG's favor. And considering the symbolism strewn nature of witches, that kind of maybe significant change in balance could be reflected in some way, in this case a slightly more humanish look.

Everyone and their mother has heard 'you are what you eat', so definitely a possiblity, if an extremely awkward one. As the tags imply, while frustratingly difficult, Ashtaroth would rather not subsum people.

Flairina · Dec 28, 2019

InfiniteTangent said:
Well, that immediately makes me think of Bayonetta, which suddenly makes the lifefibers-as-hair design stand out. Then the symbol on the chest is like the umbran watch + eye as Bayo wears it, like her smash symbol, but rotated.

Annnnnd that's three.

Farseer Sen'Zabl said:
... Look what you made me do.

Apparently MY Christmas present is all these omakes I'm getting as of late. I don't think adding anymore people to this marriage is tenable, but please know that I love you for this all the same! 😍

What would you like me to title that as? My first thought is "By A Hair's Breadth", but if you have something else, I'll gladly use that instead.

Farseer Sen'Zabl said:
Mami would style her hair into those horrifically impractical drills.

I know I literally just referenced this, but...

Homura Tamura rears its ugly head again. Or rather, its beautiful head, which the tyrant Mami wishes to force into her own image. Run, Homura, run!

Farseer Sen'Zabl said:
She had a book burning to attend, and that witch would be getting front row tickets.

The next morning, Mitakihara wakes up to to find itself oddly devoid of matches, fireworks, and several hundred gallons worth of gasoline.

Nottheunmaker said:
What if I said I don't believe you?

I'd say that's very mean. You can trust me, honest! The Du Polignac are probably VERY friendly, after all.

(Also, I finally found out where the name "Du Polignac" was confirmed from, by the way - a reveal of extra materials (1, 2, 3) that occurred during the Magia Record Madogatari event. Still not one hundred percent certain on it, but given this, my own name for the familiars - Aglae - shall be stowed for the moment.)

Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC)

Intact but Tactless

In Madness Fallen

Accolyte of 'Common Sense'

Intact but Tactless

Just drifting along, really

I've seen things. They weren't really interesting.

Least Omnipotent Goddess

Actually a goat.

Only Sane Man

Just drifting along, really

Accolyte of 'Common Sense'

God of reflection

Altman be praised

Least Omnipotent Goddess