Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Is it worse than 100 Planets and better than Inversion Arrays?
Strange Aeons: A 40k Xeno Governor Quest
- Thread starter Leon12431
- Start date
- Location
- USA
The Crucible and Forge are both very potent, either one of them would have been enough to make a world notable in the Great Crusade if natively built by said world. In many ways you can think of the Radiant actions as being devices/constructions that would have been notable in the Great Crusade or even the Dark Age itself, the Radiant Nexus would have not been out of place on a research world of the Dark Age itself.
The Exatari have only a handful of fields of science compared to humanity, but in those fields they are peer to the Dark Age itself.
The Exatari have the following fields:
Phase/Meta tech, Library (Weight), Physics, Sensors, Particle Physics, Particle Manipulation, Living Cybernetics are all the fields at Dark Age level.
Gravity is not Dark Age level but is above imperial level.
Energy/Kinetic weapons, Computer, Quantum, Material Science, Titans are all at or lower than average Imperial technology.
Warp Tech, Biology, Astronomy, Void Tech, Robot, Blank Tech are all Nonexistent
Warp Navigation, Warp Science can not be researched.
The Dark Age had 100s of tech fields at nominal levels, the Exatari have a drop in the ocean of the technology that the Dark Age had access too. If there is a field of science you can assume the Dark Age had it. If the Dark Age had not fallen, Humanity would have surpassed both the Necrontyr and the Old Ones in both fields eventually.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
@Leon12431 Is talking with Luraia Teral likely to inspire the next generation of Calculation Hearts, and render ours somewhat obsolete?
(Honestly, if it is, we'll probably get enough Exatari Favor - for the Calc Hearts II discovery if nothing else - to buy the Calc Hearts II after they come out anyway, but...)
(Honestly, if it is, we'll probably get enough Exatari Favor - for the Calc Hearts II discovery if nothing else - to buy the Calc Hearts II after they come out anyway, but...)
- Location
- USA
No, her focus is tachyon predictive systems, basically she like Gravus has heard of the Necron tech and decided to try to recreate it.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
I'd suggest we wait until Turn 9, because we get +14 Actions on Turn 9 compared to Turn 8.
Also, unless we get impressively unlucky or make some strange choices, we should complete a number of ongoing Actions on Turn 8 (Urma 2x, Atraxas ~3x) and only start a few (probably either Forge of War or Crucible of War, maybe not anything else?).
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
See above; we don't have a lot of free Actions in Turn 8.
If we had 201 Calculation Hearts, could we sic them on this and guaranteed 1-turn-complete it?
If we did that, would that be of any use in our upcoming Defense?
Honestly, I'm guessing "not as good as Inversion Arrays" - which pretty-much disqualifies it - but I've been wrong before.
Also, @Leon12431, what would Gravus roll if helping build a Gravity Barge, with the benefit of 2 Calc Hearts?
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- Location
- USA
Calculation Hearts can not be used for learning actions. Think of them as more data crunchers rather than simulations, learning projects require too many things to be done for the Hearts to work for them yet. Its one of the limits that the Exatari have with computer systems, they simply don't truly understand how to make digital simulations of things yet but can crunch numbers.
Gravus would apply his gravity related bonus to it as he does for any ship building action.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Calculation Heart Independent Action can be used for Stewardship Actions, though, right? Can they be used for anything else?
Also, @Leon12431, exactly how bad is going into debt?
Thanks!
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Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
@Kirbstomp, @Ancient One, @sunrise, @Nicholas Brooks, @Thule, @The Froggy Ninja, and anyone else who is planning to vote next turn:
Do you think we should aim for Forge of War or Crucible of War? Arguments that I see:
Do you think we should aim for Forge of War or Crucible of War? Arguments that I see:
- Narrative weight - lower (Forge) is likely better
- Resource Cost - Forge is definitely affordable; Crucible barely is (or maybe barely isn't, depending on Debt rules)
- Action Cost - Crucible will eat all our Army and Military Actions for 3 turns, as well as 6 total Atraxus Actions; Forge really only needs 2 turns of Army+Military and 2 Atraxas Actions
- Crucible has massively better effects, and with the upcoming invasion we're going to need everything we can get
- Location
- USA
Hearts can be used for fortification/construction/data crunching actions in general effect. Anything that falls under those aspects can be given to them.
Debt is fairly bad in that it starts downgrading stuff due to lacking upkeep. It's not so much loans that have to be repaid as it is just not having enough stuff to keep other stuff up and running. In short going into debt basically subtracts the debt amount from the income you would have next turn at around a 1.5 ratio. Go into debt by 500 and it will cost 750 to crawl out of the hole in terms of lacking maintenance.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Resources per turn, assuming no further expenses (or additional incomes):
Turn 8 start: 4131
Turn 9 start: 7344
Turn 10 start: 10557
Turn 11 start: 13770
Resource requirements for Forge of War, starting turn 9:
Turn 9 - requires 1.6k Resources
Turn 10 - requires 0.9k Resources, 2.5k total
Resource requirements for Crucible of War:
Turn 8 - requires 3.7k Resources (~95% chance of no progress-loss)
Turn 9 - requires ~4k Resources, ~7.7k total (exact amount depends on prior turn's result)
Turn 10 - requires ~2.3k Resources, 10k total (remainder from Turn 9)
Resource requirements for Planetary Acquisition:
Turn 8 - probably requires at least 5k Resources, sadly (Planetary Barge I or II)
Turn 9 - requires 100-150 Resources, 5.1k total
Turn 10 - requires 100-150 Resources, 5.3k total
So, to make a long story short, even in the best case, we can't easily combine Planetary Barge and Crucible of War. Planetary Barge II is likely - depending on costs - to be pushing our limits on turn 8 no matter what else.
But we can afford Crucible if we drop Barge, and we can afford Forge and Barge without too much difficulty.
Edit: We could potentially try to back-load as much debt as possible into Turn 10 to minimize the damage. But in the best case I don't think we can manage more than 5k in Barge if we also take Crucible (even factoring in the profit from the newly-acquired planets).
I'm leaning strongly in favor of Forge+Barge. Expensive but definitely affordable, less Narratively risky than Crucible, and it gives us massive economic growth as part of our defensive measures.
Ah, if we had but one more turn... The Barge II and Acquisition could compound finances quite nicely. But we play the hand we have been dealt. "Do not expect your enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement." And if it's any comfort, remember this: Eleven is not the number of Chaos Undivided.
@Leon12431, could Calculation Heart Independent Action contribute to Crucible of War?
(Thinking they'd work on Learning actions was my bad. You'd said Martial or Stewardship, not Learning or Stewardship.)
Turn 8 start: 4131
Turn 9 start: 7344
Turn 10 start: 10557
Turn 11 start: 13770
Resource requirements for Forge of War, starting turn 9:
Turn 9 - requires 1.6k Resources
Turn 10 - requires 0.9k Resources, 2.5k total
Resource requirements for Crucible of War:
Turn 8 - requires 3.7k Resources (~95% chance of no progress-loss)
Turn 9 - requires ~4k Resources, ~7.7k total (exact amount depends on prior turn's result)
Turn 10 - requires ~2.3k Resources, 10k total (remainder from Turn 9)
Resource requirements for Planetary Acquisition:
Turn 8 - probably requires at least 5k Resources, sadly (Planetary Barge I or II)
Turn 9 - requires 100-150 Resources, 5.1k total
Turn 10 - requires 100-150 Resources, 5.3k total
So, to make a long story short, even in the best case, we can't easily combine Planetary Barge and Crucible of War. Planetary Barge II is likely - depending on costs - to be pushing our limits on turn 8 no matter what else.
But we can afford Crucible if we drop Barge, and we can afford Forge and Barge without too much difficulty.
Edit: We could potentially try to back-load as much debt as possible into Turn 10 to minimize the damage. But in the best case I don't think we can manage more than 5k in Barge if we also take Crucible (even factoring in the profit from the newly-acquired planets).
I'm leaning strongly in favor of Forge+Barge. Expensive but definitely affordable, less Narratively risky than Crucible, and it gives us massive economic growth as part of our defensive measures.
Ah, if we had but one more turn... The Barge II and Acquisition could compound finances quite nicely. But we play the hand we have been dealt. "Do not expect your enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement." And if it's any comfort, remember this: Eleven is not the number of Chaos Undivided.
@Leon12431, could Calculation Heart Independent Action contribute to Crucible of War?
(Thinking they'd work on Learning actions was my bad. You'd said Martial or Stewardship, not Learning or Stewardship.)
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- Location
- USA
No Radiant actions are too complex and multifaceted for the relatively dumb computers to work on, you would need systems more akin to what modern earth uses for high end science.
I think Forge + Barge is probably for the best, we are on a budget and time crunch what with the upcoming invasion, and there are likely to be other actions that will try to call our attention.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
@Leon12431, what are the rules for taking people off of ongoing actions? Clearly, the action can't stop - someone must always be present. I believed you've stated that, if Atraxas had doubled-down, he un-double-down (to a minimum of 1 Action). Is that it? Is the only "take you off the project" that is ever permissible a matter of un-Doubling-Down someone? Or?
- Location
- USA
Pretty much, barring Crisis turns where Atraxas overworks himself, you can only remove actions as long as that person has more than one action to that action.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Would the Private Army be able to reduce commitment (6 Actions -> 1 Action)?
- Location
- USA
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Planets: really needs started next turn (by constructing a Gravity Barge), if we're going to be serious about it. And given that it's listed as "massively better than Inversion Arrays", and we already know it's great for the economy - I'm not sure we can afford to not be serious about it.
Crucible of War: Probably too pricy, but if we go for it, it also needs to be next turn.
Forge of War: Affordable, and listed as "massively better than Planets, second only to Crucible". Probably best started in two turns.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Resources per turn, assuming no further expenses (or additional incomes):
Turn 8 end: 7344
Turn 9 end: 10557
Turn 10 end: 13770
Resource requirements for Crucible of War:
Turn 8 - requires 3.7k Resources (~95% chance of no progress-loss)
Turn 9 - requires ~4k Resources, ~7.7k total (exact amount depends on prior turn's result)
Turn 10 - requires ~2.3k Resources, 10k total (remainder from Turn 9)
TL;DR: If we take Crucible of War and don't get an unexpected windfall, we'll be able to spend about 3-4k Resources across all other projects across the next 3 turns. Technically an option but... problematic.
Forge costs 7.5k less, and gives us a realistic chance of using Planetary Acquisition to notably boost our Turn 10 Income (and thus spendable Resources).
That numbers seem very high considering we spend 4k on upgrading our fleet this turn.
Robinton
Probably petting Schrödinger's cat
- Location
- Scientifically proving a miracle
Shogi Stockpiles: 6648/16.7k
Resources spent performing Turn 7 Actions: 5845
Turn 7 profit, which actions in turn 7 do not affect unless otherwise noted: 4818 gained and 1490 expended
Total at end of turn 7: 4131
Turn 8 profit, which actions in turn 8 do not affect unless otherwise noted: 5318 gained and 2105 expended
Total at end of turn 8: 7344