Strange Aeons: A 40k Xeno Governor Quest

[The Froggy Ninja]

See Strange Aeons: A 40k Xeno Governor Quest for a partial answer to the first question - tl;dr: we know roughly what "pretty well prepared" looks like and we're on track to barely manage it.

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Plus the advent of Primordial Arrays bolstering our side, and possibly a few strike teams of Blanks to help decapitate the daemonic legions.

 

[w34v3r]

Yeaaaaaahhhhh I feel like we need to take a step back on the blank issue and maybe think it through for a bit.

Especially if Osiris is gonna be right freaking there.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Yeaaaaaahhhhh I feel like we need to take a step back on the blank issue and maybe think it through for a bit.

Especially if Osiris is gonna be right freaking there.

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Go on? "Especially if" implies significant risk aside from the Custodian getting mad we futzed with human souls.

 

[w34v3r]

Well yeah, he was already mad about us augmenting a human, what's he gonna do when we start making our own human based super soldiers? Sure he's keeping his cool because logic, but we're already straining those bounds, to say nothing of the Necron in our basement.

I really don't like our odds if he catches us playing god emporer and astartes with our charges.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Well yeah, he was already mad about us augmenting a human, what's he gonna do when we start making our own human based super soldiers? Sure he's keeping his cool because logic, but we're already straining those bounds, to say nothing of the Necron in our basement.

I really don't like our odds if he catches us playing god emporer and astartes with our charges.

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Even aside from the fact that he already saw us doing Astartes (or at least pseudo-Astartes) level mods on one of our advisors, the the Blanking would happen to people he hasn't met on the other side of the sector and render them immune to his Warp shenanigans so he would have no reason to suspect we didn't just recruit pre-existing Blanks. Also, I'm pretty sure the Necrons were in deep hibernation mode the whole time he was active, though that's not super relevant to his reaction to finding her.

And my question was about what other issues with Blanking there would be, given your use of "especially if" in your initial post.

 

[w34v3r]

Well there's also the innate ethical and moral issues of making these kinds of mods to people. If we're talking about extant soldiers who can give consent then that's one thing. But it sounds more like we'd be spinning these up from scratch and thus creating a population of isolated super soldiers that can't successfully reintegrate because blank fields make them hard to be around for normal humans.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Well there's also the innate ethical and moral issues of making these kinds of mods to people. If we're talking about extant soldiers who can give consent then that's one thing. But it sounds more like we'd be spinning these up from scratch and thus creating a population of isolated super soldiers that can't successfully reintegrate because blank fields make them hard to be around for normal humans.

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What? No. Our Awakening Chamber can swap anyone from Psyker to Blank to Normal, once we calibrate it for human spiritual structures. I was just gonna grab the 10-20 deniable candidates from our personal army. We can turn them off afterwards, or make Meta Shields to help them control their aura. We could probably make something a lot cheaper actually, since it doesn't have to do all the cool stuff against as broad a range of effects.
@Leon12431, would normal phase shields work to contain the aura of disquiet Blanks give off, if we wanted to keep them Blanks while maintaining their quality of life?

 

[Leon12431]

We could probably make something a lot cheaper actually, since it doesn't have to do all the cool stuff against as broad a range of effects.
@Leon12431, would normal phase shields work to contain the aura of disquiet Blanks give off, if we wanted to keep them Blanks while maintaining their quality of life?

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It would be something you could invent, but it would be an innovation action and have a failure chance that is fairly high. The Exatari are not that well versed in dealing/negating metaphysical aspects afterall. Meta Shields basically just form a buffer between the inner and outer sides of their bubble so to speak.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

It would be something you could invent, but it would be an innovation action and have a failure chance that is fairly high. The Exatari are not that well versed in dealing/negating metaphysical aspects afterall. Meta Shields basically just form a buffer between the inner and outer sides of their bubble so to speak.

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I know regular Phase Shields can help block the aura, would it be possible to turn that inward or would that not work with the rules of Phase Tech?

 

[Leon12431]

I know regular Phase Shields can help block the aura, would it be possible to turn that inward or would that not work with the rules of Phase Tech?

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It would work, but it would be a novel design. Phase Shields are in many ways analogous to how aura in RWBY works, they take the soul and manifest its strength as a force field. As such they do buffer metaphysical things better than void or normal force fields do, but they are still very porous to blank and psyker aspects. You could invent one that is tuned towards the metaphysical, it would be more expensive than a normal one, less perfect than the meta shield, and be useless for anything physical, but it would blunt or negate low to mid tier metaphysical effects.

 

[Asmodemus]

It might be an illusion but I believe that there is a Library tied to Gravity, since when I noticed the faint particles of Gravity I could see them bound to another Library. It is annoying that I could not perceive more than that before the particles faded away and no more such particles have manifested.

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I'm guessing that's Time library or something along those lines.

So, we get some nice anti-Chaos stuff ready to debuff them and buff our side that reminds of a manga I read.

Got safe warp travel stuff.

Only real problem with Chaos coming up then should be that ascended mortal and the general strength of armies of astartes minus their Chaos buffs.

 

[w34v3r]

I see this as a chance to reenact the 'lore custodes' scene.

 

[Robinton]

Mortal Compromise

In the aftermath of Nameria confronting Atraxas about his educational plans:

"Also, Nameria…" Atraxas pondered for a moment, then continued: "Please keep in mind that Juvenat technologies are currently expensive, but with a sufficiently skilled Juvenat-specialist group, and a sufficiently absurd system output, we could afford to grant three to four centuries of life to all. Everyone. This project depends on several factors unknown to me, or beyond my control - but it should be feasible in one to five centuries, nonetheless.

"…I will not command it, but I would ask you to reread my plans in that light."

Nameria bowed stiffly and left her (arrogant!) governor's office.

After several days of setting up to take charge of the orphanages' education, she found the time - and peace of mind - to sit down and reread those plans.

…Educating even the greatest of geniuses in all fields is not currently practical in a single century…
…see study C10A47b, which proves firmly that true expertise requires a decade for most humans to achieve in all but the most niche of fields, and the list in Appendix Z42 of all known 8595 currently-documented fields of study, we conclude that universal expertise would require approximately 85 millennia for the average person. Realistically, the true result would diverge significantly from this projection - both beneficially, as learning a certain number of fields would teach a person a great deal about learning itself - and detrimentally, as by the time you'd learned the last field, the first field would have likely changed to the point of rendering your expertise irrelevant…
…as Knowledge Implantation is currently a lost art of the Dark Age of Technology, and the Mechanicus' attempts to reverse-engineer the few surviving relics have not yet borne fruit…
…It is impractical to spend more than half of a human's adult life teaching them skills and knowledge…
…Thus, we suggest the current compromise…

Nameria read the plans. Made notes. Reread the plans.

"Even so," she spoke aloud to the empty room, "Even so, I cannot agree with your plans…

"But I don't think you like them either…

"…So I'll just have to prove you wrong."

---

Robinton:

• Good luck Nameria!
• An immortal span of ruinous years would be terrible beyond words. But precious few love death - and rightly so.
• I've been steadily updating the prior Discord Notes post. But it's large enough that I'm content now; I'll start a new one after this.

 

[Robinton]

@Leon12431 Is this viable:
Ten thousand Exatari youngsters building thirty thousand copies of one piece each. Calc Hearts for EVERYONE!!!
(Note: "assemble these pieces like this" counts as a "piece" for purpose of the prior statement.)
I'm assuming it would take some serious tutoring from several experienced Exatari to get this working, but if you did the rewards should be proportionate.

Some rough calcs:
Atraxas can build a Calc Heart as a single Action, and pre-Breaking got 3 Personal Actions per decade. BUT he has "run a system" to do, and that eats some time.
Also he doesn't have all the Alloys he could ever want, or a completed dedicated workspace.
So a dedicated Scholar could probably build a Calc Heart in a year.

If you divide a year into ten thousand, you get just under 1 hour.
But the best of youngsters are probably 10x slower at first.
But since they only need to master one piece, with repetition, they probably wind up only 3x slower.
Overall output: one Calc Heart per 3 hours. But once it's set up, the whole thing takes 3 years to output the first finished Heart.

Tutoring a youngster to build a piece probably takes a month of dedicated action - even when optimizing along "these five steps are similar so teach a class of five" and similar tricks.
So the full assembly-line takes 10,000 months = 833 scholar-years of setup time.
It probably also takes a hundred scholars to maintain and keep standards up.

Suppose you have one thousand scholars spend a year setting up the assembly line. In that time, they could have built 1000 Calc Hearts.
The assembly line produces one Calc Heart per three hours, with a 3 year delay on initial production.

Over the first decade, you lose 1000 (first year) + 9*100 (maintenance) scholar-years, or 1900 Calc Hearts.
But you gain (10 -1 setup -3 getting the line up to speed) 6 years of the assembly line producing ~3,000 Calc-Hearts per year. Or roughly 18,000 Calc-Hearts. Further turns would generate ~30,000 Calc-Hearts per decade, and require only 100 scholars for maintenance.
So that's a slightly ludicrous buff to Calc-Heart creation. Nearly 10x on the first decade; roughly 30x subsequently.

I'd say, "just keep adding more assembly lines until you run out of need for more Calc-Hearts - then leave a single one open for later + spares."

@Leon12431 Does this require Atraxas to ship home additional info on Mass Production? Is this something I could include in an Exatari Homeworld omake?

 

[w34v3r]

The problem you have there is that the Exatari young have more important things to do than just crank out calc hearts for us, they need to learn how to adult, and many of them are going to want to aim for scholarhood themselves.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

I also think you might be underestimating just how badass a Forge Scholar is, and how badass Atraxas is among them.

 

[Robinton]

many of them are going to want to aim for scholarhood themselves.

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But all learning Actions gain +9d100 if you have 3 personal Calc Hearts!
Your odds of Scholarhood go up astronomically if you spend 3 decades to pay for your own Calc-Hearts (and maybe some other gear) first!

I also think you might be underestimating just how badass a Forge Scholar is, and how badass Atraxas is among them.

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That may be true.
Then again, learning to do one thing very well should, logically, be far far easier than learning to do hundreds of disparate things.
And as Exatari enforce Logic...

 

[Robinton]

I just ran some numbers. Assuming some very unlikely and helpful things:

1. We can field 75k Exatari "Megaproject" Teams, each of which has stats roughly equal to Atraxas&team for purposes of System Governance and Megaproject construction.
2. The Imperium gives us as many Systems as we want, with no Suspicion or other limits. Also, the Imperium has infinitely many Systems.
3. Once optimized, the Ministry of Construction will be able to produce 4 DC progress towards most Construction/Megastructure projects, across the galaxy if necessary, per Resource expended.
   • Plausible aside from the "across the galaxy if necessary" bit. Hopefully.

I also have some mostly-plausible calculations and guesses:

1. The 'parent' Matryoshka System spends 2 turns on "get max-planets and Align the System" plus "System Overhaul and give you your own Ministry of Construction."
2. The Exatari Megaproject Team spends 5 turns getting the foundations.
3. Each Megastructure stage through 4 is a 1-turn project.

Given all of that, I find some cool results... and one concerning result:

1. We reach "no more Exatari Teams to send" status in ~10 turns.
2. We reach "all 75k Systems upgraded to L4" status in ~20 turns.
3. We reach "all 75k Systems upgraded to L5" status in ~31 turns.
4. Even once we upgrade all 75k Systems to L9, we will take ~250 turns to pay for a single L10 upgrade.

That last one is... concerning, yes. I'm asking a few clarifying questions here...

Stage 6 - Naval defenses upgraded to Low Primarch tier, increased by 20 lines, shipyards auto produce one Gloriana class ship for no production cost, adds 0.5 to Extraction and Production output

Stage 7 - Education increased by 5, auto produces High Exotics in bulk per turn, can produce Extreme Exotics in minute quantities provided samples are retained. Defenses consolidated to Mid Primarch, auto produces 10 Apocalypse Titans for no production cost, adds 0.75 to Extraction and Production output, Notables will start with Tier 3 in their primary skill and Tier 2 in all other skills, Research DCs are reduced to half of their original value

Stage 8 - Auto produces Extreme Exotics in bulk per turn, Defenses upgraded to High Primarch, 4 more Gloriana class ships are auto produced for a total of 5, adds 1.00 to Extraction and Production output

Stage 9 - Health effects are quintupled, Eduction effects are quintupled, Population required drops by 4/5, Defenses upgraded to Peak Primarch, produces 1 Castigator tier Titan for no production cost, adds 1.25 to Extraction and Production output, Notables will start with Tier 3 across the board, Research DCs are reduced by 3/4s of their original value

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Do we expect Resource-per-turn costs to multiply by 4x on Stages 5,6,7,8?
Do we expect Turns-per-stage to multiply by 4x on Stages 5,6,7,8?
Do we expect Resource-per-turn costs to multiply by 6x on Stages 9,10?
Do we expect Turns-per-stage to multiply by 6x on Stages 9,10?

In the above quote, when "Stage 7" states "adds 0.75 to Extraction and Production output" - is that additive to Stage 6, or cumulative with Stage 6? That is, I know that Stage 6 produces 1.5x as much as Stage 5. Does Stage 7 produce 1.75x as much as Stage 5, or does it produce 2.25x as much?

Is System Economy expected to majorly buff Resource output by, say, Stage 5? Given full Legal+Trade overhaul, and assuming that we put a bit of effort into boosting said Economy?

Thanks!

 

[Leon12431]

snip

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Your math is off a good amount due to things that you simply arent aware of. A Forge Scholar on the Homeworld can produce thousands of the Hearts per hour. That's the quantifiable difference between having a true Forge Nexus with helpers and having a personal workshop. The blueprints for the Hearts are simple enough that they were basically just dumped onto the civilian accessible data webs allowing anyone that had completed their version of high school to easily build one of them.

Hell its likely to become a project for around the equivalent of the seventh or eighth grade Exatari to build one of the things to an acceptable standard within a handful of hours. The calculation hearts are boneheaded easy to build for them.

 

[Leon12431]

Do we expect Resource-per-turn costs to multiply by 4x on Stages 5,6,7,8?
Do we expect Turns-per-stage to multiply by 4x on Stages 5,6,7,8?
Do we expect Resource-per-turn costs to multiply by 6x on Stages 9,10?
Do we expect Turns-per-stage to multiply by 6x on Stages 9,10?

In the above quote, when "Stage 7" states "adds 0.75 to Extraction and Production output" - is that additive to Stage 6, or cumulative with Stage 6? That is, I know that Stage 6 produces 1.5x as much as Stage 5. Does Stage 7 produce 1.75x as much as Stage 5, or does it produce 2.25x as much?

Is System Economy expected to majorly buff Resource output by, say, Stage 5? Given full Legal+Trade overhaul, and assuming that we put a bit of effort into boosting said Economy?

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You should expect the stages past 4 to not be a linear increase to cost to build, turns to build anymore. They are becoming truly grand designs at that point. I am not sure what your resource per turn thing comes from, if you mean for building then yes that is an inherent aspect of how the system works.

The increase to turns and cost will not be a mere 6x for stage 9 and 10, for stage 10 you can probably assume it will be at least 10x.

The bonuses are added to each other and then the base bonus outside of the Megastructure ones is multiplied by the megastructure bonus provided. For a simplistic example lets say you have Stage 7 completed and have a system bonus of 2, from Stage 7 you have a bonus of 1.25 therefore you take your base bonus of 2*1.25 = 2.5. Per your calculations the completed System Overhaul would be ~42 bonus therefore 42*1.25 = 52.5.

 

[Robinton]

Your math is off a good amount due to things that you simply arent aware of. A Forge Scholar on the Homeworld can produce thousands of the Hearts per hour. That's the quantifiable difference between having a true Forge Nexus with helpers and having a personal workshop. The blueprints for the Hearts are simple enough that they were basically just dumped onto the civilian accessible data webs allowing anyone that had completed their version of high school to easily build one of them.

Hell its likely to become a project for around the equivalent of the seventh or eighth grade Exatari to build one of the things to an acceptable standard within a handful of hours. The calculation hearts are boneheaded easy to build for them.

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Nice!

Then what's the bottleneck keeping everyone from getting 3? Alloy cost?

You should expect the stages past 4 to not be a linear increase to cost to build, turns to build anymore. They are becoming truly grand designs at that point. I am not sure what your resource per turn thing comes from, if you mean for building then yes that is an inherent aspect of how the system works.

The increase to turns and cost will not be a mere 6x for stage 9 and 10, for stage 10 you can probably assume it will be at least 10x.

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*Raises eyebrows*

I see. So this is a 100k-year project. If not considerably more.
Or - no, I bet we'll be advancing Tech levels fast enough to have a meaningful effect, and that should change things.
Alright.
Still gargantuan.

The bonuses are added to each other and then the base bonus outside of the Megastructure ones is multiplied by the megastructure bonus provided. For a simplistic example lets say you have Stage 7 completed and have a system bonus of 2, from Stage 7 you have a bonus of 1.25 therefore you take your base bonus of 2*1.25 = 2.5. Per your calculations the completed System Overhaul would be ~42 bonus therefore 42*1.25 = 52.5.

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Gotcha! That was the more optimistic of the two possibilities. Thanks!

 

[Leon12431]

Then what's the bottleneck keeping everyone from getting 3? Alloy cost?

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Mostly that most Exatari dont see the need for 3. Everyone that wants one pretty much has one, but the vast majority of Exatari are civilians who use the things more to figure out fun stuff to do on them and to cultivate their personal skills rather than do research.

 

[Robinton]

OK. I'll admit: I updated the prior Discord post more.

But here's the new one, to stop me from further backsliding! (Barring further chains of statements that are clearly connected.)

Spoiler

Q: As an aside, I think the Witness both being mostly asleep and not integrating any new Exatari explains a lot about how hidebound our society is.
Our ultimate moral authority is massively limited in its capacity to observe and understand changing circumstances.
A: there is a good chunk of that yeah
The Witness hasn't been able to say "This is silly" for eons
the Exatari are in much the same boat as the Aeldari post Edict were
Q: Lmao
Once witness wakes up, their going to need the Silly hammer

Q: If the species unlocked its full Architect of Reality potential, where would it compare to the Necrons, tech wise?
A: above the Necrons and Old Ones
since at that point they are basically universally a combination between C'tan and Warp God
in other words Veil Masters

Q: Would the C'Tan and Old Ones have stuff they can do better than us, just outweighed by the synergy of being able to do both really well?
A: the Old Ones and C'tan would be able to reach higher in their respective fields
even Architects of Reality Exatari would cap around 50 TL without Technology mastered or 100 with it
the Old Ones and C'tan could reach technically an infinite level of tech
in their domains
but going beyond 50 is basically impossible due to the sheer resources and time it would take
so basically everyone more or less caps at 50 period

Q: >> Anomalous Library is basically corrupted and would have to be defragged to get any use out of, if its successfully defragged it would unlock several otherwise inaccessible warp related libraries
Are they otherwise inaccessible from the same event as caused the corruption, or just as a natural consequence of their nature?
A: the latter
basically those Libraries aren't meant to exist
the Old Ones' were skilled enough that their relics basically mashed those Libraries together resulting in the Anomalous Library
so if you defrag that library you can begin decoding those never-meant-to-be Libraries

Q: Is there a particular reason [The Witness] hasn't [accepted] anyone new? Just trying not to exacerbate the increased downtime of age?
A: mostly because it has stupidly high expectations
or more accurately because it cant actually tell anyone that it needs new people
so the caretakers have gone through its previous accepted members and figured out the rough level of skill required
which basically comes down to "anyone that revolutionizes the species"
or "is the only Exatari yet alive"
Q: So it might start expanding/recruiting again once we get the fourth library?
And Atraxas would probably have qualified by now if not for the "leave and never come back" aspect of the infiltration mission.
A: yes to both of those

Q: How has Homeworld reacted to Divinity? I assume they got their own How To Faith books through similar tricks to ours.
A: mostly just really damn confused on it
there was some measure of celebration around the Witness and it being provably something else
and they do have the faithbooks yes which are helping
but religion even with that is basically just a giant ? for the entire species
Q: I'm reminded of some of my favorite urban fantasy/science fantasy settings, where "applied theology" is a legitimate field of science.
I wonder if any Exatari are experimenting with just trying to walk down their Path.
A: thats pretty much what they are trying

Q: How does Exatari reproduction work? Worst comes to worst could we flee and found a new Homeworld?
A: generally its more building a seed/core/egg than normal reproduction
its not a mistake that I used created to describe the process of an egg being made by Atraxas in the most recent part of the next update
they can do asexual reproduction, they can do multi parental reproduction at will
and the have no real issue with inbreeding
since their biology is so divergent that its pretty easy to ensure that even asexually created eggs are fully distinct from the maker
Atraxas was created from several Exatari working on his egg
although to be absolutely fair the Exatari dont have genders at all
by human standards they are all it

Q: How much of the megastructure would need to be completed for us to try moving the star system?
A: the project isnt suited for making the system mobile
that is beyond the reach of anything barring a full effort by the Imperium

Q: ...could Atraxas make new Exatari?
(Disclaimer to the players: if the answer is 'yes', please take into account that the question is "could", not "should")
A: yes Atraxas could make eggs

Q: Are worldships within the zone of feasibility, though?
A: technically yes but Atraxas wouldnt go for them

Q: Would he consider his duty fulfilled if he just evacuated everyone. I'm trying to formulate worst case bug out plans, but our duty to shogi is something of an issue.
A: the duty is weird he would consider his duty filled if he was evicted from the position by any proper authority
if that happened the moment he confirmed the authenticity Atraxas would just shrug and leave
uncaring of what happens next
it would no longer be his duty so he would no longer care, he would just grab his stuff and return to following the directives of the Homeworld
Exatari dont really form emotional bonds
it would be annoying but thats all it would be, Atraxas would grumble but not do anything to stop it from happening
he might provide his successor some plans, but by and large he would just leave

Exatari friendships are roughly two grades less-intense than human friendships.
Best Human Friends roughly equals Close Exatari Friends.
Human True Siblings roughly equals Exatari Best Friends.
Etc.

its more that Exatari dont pack bond with things
the early hives relied on sheer numbers, dispersal and general apathy to each other to survive mentally the constant cullings from the megafauna
their early evolutionary stages didn't incentivize feeling bad about losing friends
that would have been a death sentence so they became somewhat distant from each other instead
Atraxas personally considers his Advisors to be good friends, but to humans he is very distant and stoic
outside of his rages, everyone that interacts with him often considers him as a non emotional uncaring stoic figure
basically humans are very bipolar by Exatari standards and hyper emotional
its basically the same difference as human/aeldari have with their emotions
and different contexts as well, since the Aeldari and Humans have more general crossover in psychology than human/exatari do
there is always more distance between Exatari relationships than a similar importance human relationship would have
not sure how to better explain it
and they outright lack any form of parental bonding instinct

it makes sense to me but its not how the Exatari see things. Hivelines are more legal systems in order to figure out where random trinkets or debts are given if an Exatari dies randomly more than anything else. There are a handful of outliers that do have a more corporation I think is a good way to describe it of working where their Hivelines compact and consolidate all of their debts/trinkets into a single communal pool. But outside of those weirdo outliers 99.9% of all Exatari only care about their Hivelines in the same sense that a human might care about being descended from genghis khan or even less, unless their creator is something actually impressive like a Scholar it wouldn't even be a notable fact.
and the teachers outside of the paths are universally civilians
no Exatari would be able to get a notable enough mentor to take pride in that outside of already being part of a path
the biggest indicator of social standing is entirely in what they have personally achieved
and its more or less expected that everyone reinvents the wheel
higher skilled Exatari are not supposed to teach the young ones
they are supposed to guide them to make their own discoveries
the Exatari for all that they can be understood by humans are very alien when you get down to it
a lot of the baseline stuff is just wildly divergent

Q: Do most Exatari bother to remember their parents' names, on the same principle that they would remember their own birthday and birth-location (or, well, not birth exactly - but the closest equivalent)? Or are those things they also forget?
A: they do remember/record that data since its important legality stuff
since its generally important and a social faux to not immediately be able to understand why you are getting something or being saddled with time debt
although Exatari hivelines are a clusterfuck compared to human bloodlines
Q: Oh! So more like a Social Security Number.
OK.
Now that is a metaphor.
A: that works
also instead of simple Parent -> Child and such for human bloodline maps. Exatari Hivelines look more like webs
since children can have more children with their parents
jump all over the map in terms of generational stuff
there are some Exatari over 10k years old that have had children with Exatari only 1k years old
so their Hivelines are an absolute mess
Q: For a human, that would be horrifying. For an alien without inbreeding-prone-DNA, where "making a child" has all the emotional and physical intimacy of a particularly interesting craft project, and where you aren't really expected to raise said child - meh.
Q: Welcome to Leon's skills at keeping Atraxas and the Exatari alien
A: the cost for making a child is to take some of your flesh and poke it in the right way
and just add any other Exatari flesh to that
presto you have an egg
its pretty much just a craft project
unlike with most races there is no cost for the Exatari and also no real connection to their eggs
they dont have to incubate them
they dont have to give them material
they just have to spend a few hours working on the ball of Exatari flesh and its done

Q: "higher skilled Exatari are not supposed to teach the young ones / they are supposed to guide them to make their own discoveries"
Would the Witness suggest more Teaching - or would the Witness leave all that as-is?
I feel like it would do horrible things to young-person-training-rates, but great things to best-of-the-best-new-invention-rates...
(Which makes great sense for a nigh-immortal species...)
A: the system of teaching was installed by The Witness in the first place
and its proven its worth many times over
basically the way Exatari teaching works is that they have a baseline level that they teach up to
but anything beyond that point is expected to be effectively reinvented by anyone that wants to move upward
so a metaphor would be teaching to the end of 12th grade and then expecting everyone to reinvent everything from basic 101 classes to PhD stuff

Q: what would happen if Nameria super crited on her form of the educational system?
A: Atraxas would be very happy and also be convinced that humanity cheats very very heavily
he would also push for a two layer education system
where one layer is her version and one his own
the ones that score high across a large array of aptitudes go to hers
the rest remain with him

Q: How much 'raising' do young Exatari need?
A: not much really
the Exatari dont really have something akin to infancy
it takes around a decade before schooling can begin
which will take on average 250 or so years
then another 500 years to drift around the various paths to find one that calls to them and settle down
I think I outlined their schooling before, if I have then the numbers there are probably more accurate to my view of them
but young Exatari are pretty much self sufficient from day one, they just lack true long term planning for that first few years
and by that I mean they havent reached the point where time loses its meaning to them
Exatari do get smarter as they age because of their brains growing with them
but 95% or more of their cerebral aspects are fully formed from day one post hatching
think of them more as self replicating machines
that probably explains things better than trying to use biological norms for them

Q: If the Exatari species decided that it needed to grow population by an order of magnitude per century, how bad would that break their culture? I assume it would throw quite a lot of strain into their schooling systems...
A: not really, the teachers are civilians for a reason
everyone that is currently doing random nonsense jobs such as managing the local orchestra could become a teacher
teaching in Exatari terms is different from human teaching styles due to the fact that they can link directly
99% of Exatari teaching is project oriented
proving how things work and how to do things
that 1% is the teacher coming in connecting to everyone and dumping the new lesson into their brains
before starting the hands on project
there is no need to actually inform
lecture style classes simply do not exist for the Exatari period
the Exatari are fundamentally alien and I have done a good amount of thinking on how their culture and society works
its both remarkably hidebound and flexible

Q: When you said "Life is going to activate Turn 12, Ruin Turn 10", is that counting in the effects of Calc Hearts tripling all Homeworld Research (starting turn 8 I think?)?
A: no
but I will say that the Calc Hearts are not that good at helping with meta tech
it annoys the Forge Scholars but there is some degree of artistic nature to the fields
Veil physics is promising to remove that
but right now its firmly in the field where Forge Scholars tease out equations by more guesswork and intuition than anything else
Q: When does Veil Physics activate for the homeworld?
A: Turn 9
it will take a while to get it to the point where its directly helpful but that will be fairly fast all things considered
they need to reach TL4 for the first major leap

Q: Turn 12, Homeworld has Life online - Elder LMs wake up fully, Exatari Research x10 or more (including Meta Tech)
Veil Physics, with x10+ from LMs and x3 from Calc-Hearts: TL1 ~75 years; TL2 ~150 years; TL3 ~300 years; TL4 ~600 years - becomes - TL1 ~2.5 years; TL2 ~5 years; TL3 ~10 years; TL4 ~20 years
So theoretically we should get Veil Physics 2 on Turn 13, 3 on Turn 14, and 4 on Turn 16.
A: I will say that you should consider Veil Physics more like the technological progression of airplanes on Earth
instead of libraries
its a more foundational field
and its entirely theory based which makes it easier to progress as well
its spin off fields will be hard
but it of itself is pretty simple

A: one of my major desires was to make the Exatari feel alien
there are in my opinion far too many alien races in fiction that are just humans painted different colors
not many that are fundamentally psychologically different from humanity

A: again the Exatari have been doing the equivalent of complex multi dimensional quantum physics without a greater understanding of general physics than an ancient greek philosopher had
basically if Plato had been doing actual quantum mechanical work that would basically be where the Exatari are

Veil Physics improves the effectiveness of all Veil (Meta/Phase) Tech by 10%. So cost, efficiency, scale, production ease and so on improved by 10%.
It doesn't boost Research directly, but it does boost the Research bonus from Library-Information.

Q: With the Heart Forge online, will future turns be able to build Calc Hearts from Alloys as a free action (aside from Alloy cost naturally)?
A: That was not an intended effect, but with the details I have provided it would make sense in universe. I think producing up to 5 per a single action is fair.

A: they are done with the common weapons and have concluded that most of them are just ill suited for adaption into Exatari usage. Void tech completes turn 9. Industrial methods is implemented - basically think of it as 21st century automation.
A: they have uploaded programs into calc hearts to do some simulations, but by and large most Exatari prefer to do all the number crunching in their personal heads and have computers basically as number/variable holders
Q: Does the Homeworld consider Computers to be a "we're done researching - at least for several centuries" technology, or a "we've done the easy bit, but we'll keep trying for further improvements - especially as LMs start waking up" technology?
A: sort of in the middle, "useful yes enough to keep a few scholars and forge workers on the subject, but we really need to get Veil Physics worked out"

Q: Does the recent Warp Nav artificial crit reduce future Exatari prices, by simplifying transportation? Or does that not matter since they already have a "roadmap" to the drop-off point?
A: the latter, the Exatari will be much better to explore/travel to new places but they have always been able to reach the old easily enough
Q: Would Study the Warp Drive make Exatari goods cheaper?
A: not immediately, but would trend in that direction over time

anyone in a path is by default above the civilians even the lowest ranks
first rank in a path roughly equals a notable person, maybe not a super well known one, but one that would be impressive to know.
second to third rank would be a known celebrity and it would be something unusual and very impressive to be close to one of them
fourth to fifth rank would be somewhat worshipped, they would tend to have epithets applied to them by the civilians even if the actual Exatari are not exactly super thrilled with that kind of thing
the Scholars are considered by the normal Exatari to be figures of idolatry, near worship even, being seen as exemplars and the heralds of the Living Mausoleums, who are in turn seen as the messengers of the Witness
all Scholars are known, Atraxas for example had numerous epithets applied to him: the Unmatched, the prodigy, the master of science and so on.
and seeing them in person would be a akin to a human seeing a divine figure from the heavens

Q: I wonder what people would think of the fact that [Atraxas] broke, and is still doing his thing
A: the average civilian is both the most likely to both be uncaring or zealously furious at it
the Scholars are the ones that truly understand the danger/horror - civilians lack that knowledge
Q: Civilian reaction: either "he's still getting the job done, right?" or "traitor to the word of the Witness!"
Scholar reaction: "oh fuck"

Q: If I recall correctly, you've said before that if the Witness Ascended and noticed that Atraxas had Broken, the reaction would be roughly "I'd been wondering if Exatari culture and society, over the eons, had shifted to the point of altering how Broken Scholars behaved. Looks like they have, actually - and much for the better! Or we got freakishly lucky here; either way."
A: pretty much yeah
the whole crusade against Broken Scholars comes from the first generations of Scholars
which when they broke tended to become only slightly less awful than Architects
and since the Witness has been forced out of touch with Exatari society it doesn't have the data to reform that statement in light of cultural evolution
the current Exatari society is far far less bloody and wrathful than the early one
which the Witness basically had to force into compliance
so once the Witness awakens and can figure things out its likely to begin considering purposely breaking selected Scholars
since broken scholars are either on par with Forge Scholars in terms of research value or more than twice in the case of Scholars of Radiance

Q: Suppose the Witness wakes up and spends a century revising Broken Scholar protocols.
Would it then be safe for Atraxas to confess that he Broke and is a Radiant?
A: yes
although the Witness would pretty much instantly be able to tell that he is broken
just from the standard communications
there are slight syntax and idiosyncrasies that are built into Scholars that are lost in the breaking
and can't be perfectly recreated by even a Radiant
but only the Witness and some of the oldest LMs remember that data
its one of the data pieces that is sort of lost due to not being needed for several eons

the Venerables are in much the same boat as the Witness
they are pretty out of touch with modern Exatari society
basically the Exatari don't have the top two tiers of moral authority active or even functioning currently
and have to make due with the third and fourth tiers informing the 5th tier which trickles down
once the older LMs start waking up they will be doing cultural reforming
since things have both gone as desired and off the rails

Q: Are Ruin and Divinity Tier 3 Meta Libraries?
A: Ruin is tier 2, Divinity is weird
on its own with its baseline two aspects its Tier 2
but generally it upscales any other Library to act as if it was tier x+1
so Ruin/Divinity acts like it was a Tier 3 Library
not TL but Library complexity
Order is also a level 2 library
Civilization is tier 3

Q: is there a library of sentience or sapience?
A: no; sentience/sapience is more related to several interlocking Libraries

Q: Could I get a quick description of the Exatari physical form, and what sort of 'feel' it should have to it?
A: base form of a tarantula, add another pair of legs, remove the mandibles, retain general proportions, increase the apex of the leg height to 25 feet and the body to around 20 feet off the ground, remove the hair, replace the skin with metallic silver base with bright veins of plasma crackling under the surface

Q: Will higher TLs of Divinity loosen the requirements to build a divine profile?
Since that seems in line with TL's "get better at the things you can currently do" vs Tier's "get new tricks"
A: generally true, Divinity is as I have said weird
Divinity does get better about things like that yes
but Divinity's true value is in its upscaling other Libraries and doing normally impossible things
Q: Gods are all about being the best at things, it only makes sense that Divine [X] will be an upgraded version of [X]
Normal craftsmanship makes possible things out of possible materials
Divine craftsmanship makes impossible things out of impossible materials
Extrapolate to other fields to understand the Divinity Library
A: yeah

Q: "This just in, Planetary Govenor finally understands how currency and the economy work and fuction, more news at 11"
A: that actually would probably be news
headline news actually that all the pundits would be screaming about for years
the general assumption in the Imperium is that planetary governors are either moronically incapable of managing value, have no clue of time constraints, fund countless boondoggles, want to have solid gold toilets in every single city or some horrible mixture of all the above
the ones that are actually aware of economic principles are super rare
...
Atraxas was basically treating currency like he would time
so he was paying by the second
he was basically calculating time investment as if the workers were active 24/7
since that is how the time debt is counted for the Exatari
there is not considered to be off time
due to the assumption being that the person you are working for is giving you precise instructions

Order is more about the supremacy of causality
than anything else
and logic
so as long as something makes logical sense Order is fine with it
but it does dampen warp fuckery and ruin stuff
since those tend to be inherently non logical
Q: So it's mostly for making sure things don't go wrong/crazy rather than actually improving things that already make sense.
At least at this level/tier
A: pretty much
its more making sure nothing mucks with logic
than enforcing logic
which has some nasty effects on things like Plot Armor
Order does not care if you are legendary, if a nuke hits you, you are ash
Q: So Order Weapons could be helpful in defeating Champion+ units.
A: yup
similar to how inversion arrays and primordial arrays use the plot armor as their weapon
Q: At higher levels, would that work for Godslayer weapons?
A: yes
TL4 in conjunction with primordial arrays would be able to rend immunity traits in their zone of effect
so non true godslayer
but could tear open a chink in the armor
TL8 would make it possible to inflict lasting damage to those traits
TL12 would enable full on Godslayer weapons
Q: And Divinity would probably synergize even better there than it already does with everything.
A: yup
basically you could consider Divinity as reducing the needed TL by 1 stage
when used in conjunction
so Divine Order would be able to reach full on Godslayer at TL8
which would require Order and Divinity at TL4
Q: Or basic Rending right now.
A: yup
the way Divinity + X works is that you add the Tech Levels of Divinity and X together to get the effective TL
of the Divine X
and it reduces the stage required by one
Q: Neat. How would Divinity help with Inverting Daemons into friendly gods?
A: weirdly as is most divinity stuff
it would basically make it easier but also randomize the gods a lot more

Q: Would it be practical to send a sample of each Unidentified Laws to the Homeworld for analysis? What would the Favor cost be, if it was practical?
A: its possible but you wont be getting those Laws back for one, and two it would be a low priority task unless you spend the amount of Favor listed for a rush order

A: TL24 took the Necrons millions of years to reach
with a population thousands of Orders of magnitude greater than the Exatari
generally every 4 TL is a geometric jump in difficulty of research

Q: Roughly how fast does tech-difficulty grow, for Meta-Libraries, as you gain TL? That is, is TL13 twice as difficult as TL12, or more, or less - or is it not exponential at all?
A: 1-4 (cumulative 1.25x per TL) 5-8 (jumps to double 4 and then cumulative 1.25x) 9-12 (jumps to triple 8 and then 1.25x) 13-16 (jumps to quadruple 12 and then 1.25x) as a base formula but complexity does play a part. Meta Libraries basically upscale all of this by 100 in difficulty, this is a very wonky system that is semi narrative in all honestly. Assume that even with the Witness and all LMs active it will take somewhere in the order of 1k years to get from TL16 to TL17
Q:
TL24 = 1.25^23 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 = 121,972.
...
"semi narrative" it is, then. Works for me!
A: basically I am using the general idea of Daemon's Selion quest tech system for SA
Currently the Exatari translated would roll a 1d300 per decade for technological progress in one field
adding in the Young LMs would add another dice to that so 2d300
adding in the Elders would upgrade it again to 2d450
adding the Venerable to that would increase it to 3d600
adding the Witness would increase it to 6d1200
but I tend to have much higher DCs for tech progress than Daemon used in that quest
Q: So x24 research. Cool! That's a number I can work with.
...
A: and it compounds so TL 3 is 2.5 above 1 to 2
Q: Do you mean that TL3 costs TL1 * 1.25 * 1.25 (that's TL1 * 2.25), or that TL3 costs TL1 * 2.5?
A: I mean that TL3 is roughly equal to TL1+TL2 * 2.5
I was not explaining it well yesterday, super tired
my brain was fried
Q: So if TL1 took 1 year, then TL2 would take 2.5 years, and TL3 would take 8.75 years?
A: yes
Q: Suppose TL1 takes 1 effort (year, century, minute - whatever).
Then TL2 would take 2.5, TL3 would take 8.75.
Would TL4 take 45.9375? That's "all prior costs" x (1.25x3).
Would TL5 take twice "all prior costs"?
Then TL6 is just 1.25 x "the cost of TL5"?
A: yes the compounding effect resets so to speak every 4 levels
and generally round to nearest whole number
Q: Calcs:
Suppose TL1 takes 1 effort (year, century, minute - whatever).
TL2: 2.5.
TL3: 8.75.
TL4: 46ish.
TL5: 116ish.
-
So every +4 TLs is a 58xMultiplier jump, where Multiplier is 2,3,4,5...
-
So TL25 should have difficulty 58^6 x2x3x4x5x6x7 = 191866210421760 = 1.9 x 10^14.
...
Which is still below the projected Active Witness Research, but not by nearly as much. Still semi-narrative, but much less cataclysmically so.
A: remember that the research dice arent rolled constantly
and are rolled slower the higher your tech is
and also are rolled semi based on population
there is a reason I am doing semi narrative for the tech growth
its not a major facet of the quest currently
if it becomes one I will probably revamp the system into something useable

Q: If the Old Ones had the ability to throw effectively-infinite resources into Research - which their "I win everything Warp" Trait strongly suggests they did - wouldn't they make effectively-infinite Research progress?
A: research time scales hard and its generally less a matter of pure resources and more exploration

Q: I'd assume the Calculation Hearts are already TL4+
A: Calculation Hearts are around a TL8 device
the average computers are TL4 currently
the thing is that the Exatari had computers, they just had entirely analog ones
they knew the principles, just had never made the leap to software/digital systems

Q: What was locked behind Tier 2 for Weight btw?
A: things like the Meta Shield
TL 12 was the point where they began to start going towards Veil Physics
reaching TL13 Weight would have unlocked Veil Physics

A: think of Veil Physics as general physics and Libraries as applied quantum systems
it does have a good few branches that are either on par or harder than Libraries
but those will start being discovered at TL8 or so

Q: What does Tier 2 look like for Veil Physics and Computers, as our two foundational techs likely to hit that in a reasonable period?
A: Tech Level 12 for Veil Physics basically grows it to Boundary Physics
where you start figuring out the physics behind things like the webway
and how to theoretically build a material counterpart
TL 8 and 12 also unlock several subfields such as Veil Manipulation, Veil Construction, Veil Technology
Q: "Veil Technology" aka the thing we brute forced with TL0 Veil Physics
A: yup
Q: So what would it normally be useful for? I know it gives massively scaling bonuses to our Veil-Tech, but, supposing we discovered things in the right order.
A: basically Veil TL 12 would give an option to figure out about the Libraries
until that point it would be a somewhat useless field
its a somewhat recursive field
where you need later tech to figure out what you can actually do with the theories
so you need the Libraries to know about Veil Technology, Construction and Manipulation
but you cant get the Libraries without pouring tons of effort into a seemingly useless field of study
Q: So basically something random kooks would study until they grind away to a breakthrough that makes it suddenly foundational.
A: and even if you manage that its a good shot that you can't find the Weight library
since by that point you are probably filling the meta flux with things like Technology particles
so you cant find Weight
the Exatari were a perfect storm to figure out about the Libraries
Q: And also because most species don't have nearly as many Really Important Dudes
A: honestly the more heroes you have the less likely you are to find a Library
you need important non plot armored people
well more very smart people that are actually outright skilled
with the right tech line
with the right general senses
and to not have your souls touched by Chaos
or any other metaphysical force
so warp shred or something akin is basically required for a chance
then you need at least 2 mentality and 2 personality
then you need really long lifespans due to how hard it would be
you then need to have enough metaphysical stuff to incorporate that into your tech base
Q: Neat.
A: so those were basically the keys
1) extreme lifespans, 2) warp shred, 3) 2 mentality and 2 personality or higher, 4) metaphysical aspects incorporated to tech directly
and some minor keys like not having too much narrative value
Q: What did we have before Weight? Or did we somehow bull through that requirement too?
A: you basically bulldozed right into weight
Q: And figured out how to incorporate it without any metaphysical precursor tech?
A: mastered the basic particles, then the quarks, then started playing with them, then found weird particles that did weird ass things
spent eons grinding away at them
presto got Weight
the Exatari have some semi natural metaphysical tech in that their bodies are able to soul link
so it was fairly easy to accidentally stumble into how to make null/psi tech
Q: Makes sense. And it's a metaphysical tech that is in no way tied to a metaphysical entity that would taint our data
I imagine we'll lose out on some fraction of Tier 2 Computers from our whole "society would collapse if we made AI" deal, but does it offer any other goodies besides "can run Dwarf Fortress Sock Bonanza without exploding"?
A: your current computers do that just fine
computers are likely going to be filed under the category of completed field that only weirdos play with
some minor upgrades like slightly better simulation programs probably will come online for forge scholars but computers are something that doesn't truly intrigue the Exatari
they just arent the work multiplier that they are for most other species
Q: Diminishing returns I suppose.
A: a computer lets a human design and build a spaceship
an exatari can do that already on their own, a computer simply lets them store a few more variables
a computer lets a human control a massive complex
an exatari can do that naturally
Q: Really it's a difference between a 2x-10x boost for us and the 100x+ boost for filthy casual species like humans.

Q: So is the Veil Physics bonus 10% compounding per level or something more complex?
A: its a compounding increase per tech level yes
and brings more options to the table
and also ties in other fields into veil tech
its basically the same as going from physics 0 to physics 1
a ton of non connected stuff suddenly can be connected
Q: So TL12 will, in addition to unlocking cool new stuff and connecting old stuff, will also give a flat ~3x efficiency boost to all our meta tech.
A: more than that
the compounding will stop at around TL8
but the effective value
will grow beyond that point
generally more around a 10x boost to everything at TL12 is likely
Q: Neat.
So compounding up to ~2x and then additional stuff.
A: yup
Veil Physics will let the Exatari make true veil weapons
and connect more general technologies to their Veil baseline
Veil Tech at TL12 for example will make Phase Reactors output around as much as antimatter reactors
instead of their current fusion energy densities
Q: Presumably also helpful for less-brute-forced Wellsprings
A: yes
generally Veil Physics will vastly improve production rates on the wellsprings and forges
Exatari tech is absolutely riddled with inefficiencies right now
Q: Neato. What do veil weapons look like?
A: if you take a laser weapon and turn it into a veil weapon, you will end up with a lance type weapon that has semi arbitrary range and will inflict full damage on things like C'tan/Necron/Daemons and so forth
generally things that disregard various warp enforced rules
and have pseudo FTL travel
Q: So basically hyperspecialized armor piercing stuff. That can also hit from weird angles
A: yup
and telefrag
that is going to make War Scholars happy
Q: Well
Less unhappy
A: no happy
in the sense of a dark eldar being given a new pet to torture
Q: Dang. I thought those guys made horrific abominations because they don't like war
A: they dont like extended war
I have described them as the union of the worst parts of the dark eldar, mechanicus, tau, with high tech and a passion for being sadistic about things
the War Scholars would be gleeful about being able to set up trade with the Dark Eldar
to get ahold of their poisons/toxins and other goodies
the Exatari war style isnt to kill their foe
its to absolutely cripple them but ensure they live
Q: Do war scholars have a diplomacy bonus with Dark Eldar due to close level of sadism betweeb them?
A: they would but the Dark Eldar wouldn't like having competition for being the worst beings in the galaxy
they take a sort of pride in SA in being hated by literally everyone
and being the best at torturing besides chaos
Q: Lmao
Q: Filthy casuals
Q: Special War Scholar trait
I-can't-belive-its-not-Drhukkari!
A: in some ways the Exatari going to war would be worse than a Drhukkari raid
since it would be a full on invasion force
custom designed to inflict maximal suffering on their foes
Q: Sounds like the Drumkari need to step up their game
A: different styles of thought
the Dark Eldar do raids
the Exatari would only ever invade
Q: Exatari have two modes:
Avoid conflict completely
Make sure they never dream of crossing us again
A: yup
I will say that Roboute would compare War Scholars to Konrad
if he saw them in battle mode

A: and yes [Veil Harvester] will become more likely to succeed first time with higher Veil tech/physics

Q: Do we have any chance of replicating Eaxus's Quintessence harvester once we work out the kinks of Veil Harvesting?
A: not for a while
Eaxtus is at the end of the day still a primarch
which lets him jump over intermediate steps

Q: Does the Radiance Library also include the likes of Dark Energy? Or is that more a Gravity thing?
A: it would yes

Q: Nanoswarms "enables the Production of Nanoswarms that can undertake stewardship actions at a cheaper rate when assigned under an Advisor"
Is this a Resource discount?
I would assume that, eventually, a future improved Nanoswarm variant could offer DC discounts as well?
A: it allows you to do large scale actions easier
basically things like the Overhaul action
Q: DC discount? Resource discount? Both?
A: it is meant to let you make smaller actions work like megaprojects to a degree
with a steep discount on resource cost

A: another misplaced action recovered
Renovate infrastructure - Shogi's transportation systems are above the average for Imperial worlds, as they must be in order to facilitate an effective defense against invaders to the planet. However, there is always room for improvement. Better roads, updated rail systems, and a streamlined shipping network would all contribute towards a far more reactive planetary military and economy.
(Suspicion: 30) (Resource Cost: 2000/4000/6000/8000/10000/12000) (DC: 500/1000/1500/2000/2500/3000)
(Result: Universal improvement to the world status, more actions unlocked after the final stage, can be done in stages as shown above)
Q: "can be done in stages as shown above" - Is that always 30 Suspicion per stage, or if you commit to doing multiple stages do you only pay 30 Suspicion every time you start work?
May I double-check that the jump from 10k Resources to 120k Resources is intentional?
Are the Resources and DC additive or cumulative? That is, does "doing all of them" cost 2k+4k+6k+8k+10k+120k Resources or just 120k Resources? (Equivalently, is it 10500 DC or just 3000?)
A: the suspicion does not [stack]
yes the cost and DCs do stack if you do several stages at once

Q: What was the "average time for the Homeworld to Implement Life 1"? 75 years? More? Less?
A: 70 years

Q: What is the "average time for the Homeworld - assuming no tech upgrades except the Calc Hearts - to research Veil Physics 12"?
A: 5000 years

A: the issue is that invoked laws are annoying to research
and are a very low priority research even in lulls
the Exatari by and large just learn what they do by using the things in random devices
actually researching what they are is somewhat alien
its just easier to phase forge them without knowing what they do and then test the resulting thingy
than to actually research them
researching them gives you the entirety of the understanding
phase forging with them just tells you the basics of what they are
the question is do you want to know every last minutia about the law or just enough to make a good guess on how it will act and interact with other laws
Q: So we could send in a sample of each, and get a report back quickly and cheaply about "here's approximately what each one does" - but it wouldn't be full info, just a rough idea?
A: yes
or you could just write in an action of "phase forge an iron bar with each unknown law"
and do them all for free with one action

Q: How much of a boost would spamming Immortality-Rending Inversion Arrays be over spamming regular Inversion Arrays? Given specifically the current Invasion as the opponent?
A: ah, that is a baseline upgrade like the primordial arrays are over the normal provided you have Divinity and Order of the proper tiers
Q: Which would be Divinity 1 + Order 1 for a very basic upgrade? Or Divinity 2 + Order 2?
A: Divinity 1 + Order 1, or Order 4 on its own
although I will say that anything that uses Divine Order is going to get Emps' attention
Order alone is enough to grab his attention; Divine Order is even more of a beacon for him and the tyrant
its also a generally bad idea to use Divinity + Ruin, since that runs the risk of letting Exalted self spawn
Divine Order also has the chance of causing a Living Saint to spontanously spawn for comparison or for Emps or the Tyrant to partially incarnate
Q: So use Godslayer weapons and Primordial Arrays, but don't combine them.
A: no its an inherent aspect of using Divine X
anything connected to that Divinity will be called
Ruin calls to Chaos
Order calls to Emps/Tyrant
Space/Gravity/Time call to C'tan
Divine Interlink would call to the 'Nids and Orks
Divine Life calls to Isha and Nurgle
etc.
so use Divine X only if you are confident that the beings connected wont care or seek to abuse that connection you open
Order 4 alone is enough to give you Godrending Arrays
which doesnt run the risk of letting the Tyrant incarnate
Q: New note to self: DON'T TOUCH DIVINE SPACE/GRAVITY/TIME!!!
Another new note to self: Divine Life might be useful (again - Isha), though keep Anti-Nurgle stuff ready.
A: the Divine variants are powerful
but they open a call to things that are divine and connected

Q: Is there any time of the day (in any timezone) that I shouldn't ask you questions because it will wake you up (or whatever)?
A: not really i will just answer them when I wake up

Q: Are we getting a Resources boost from Understanding the Economy to our current mines-and-factories? Or just to new ones? If it applies to the old ones, is it anywhere near as substantial as the buff to Acquired Planets (40->100)?
A: Those mines will be increased but not to that degree due to those mines being small outpost forges; the exoplanet mines will be tripled in production, though - and future worlds brought in will produce 100/100 baseline.

Q: Remind me what libraries we know of?
A: Order, Life, Weight, Ruin, Divinity, Information
Q: What would Divine Weight call, if anything?
A: cloud'tans
and also basically call godmotes
Q: Huh
A: it would call things that could be important
Q: Divine Information?
A: Crypteks and Void Dragon
Q: Oh no
A: and Men of Iron
any Ai honestly
which does include the Witness
but well it calls the Void Dragon
Q: Anyways I'm imagining a Divine Ruin beacon getting set up on the Homeworld very specifically as a trap to rend any Daemons that show up
A: bad idea
Q: Never said it wasn't
A: it would call beings like Be'lakor
and Drach
and the other Exalted
any of whom could solo the fully active Witness
Q: I see
A: with a passing thought
Q: Fair enough
A: Exalted are in the range of power of being able to delete solar systems at will
just flick their finger and the star goes poof
if able to fully manifest
which Divine Ruin would allow them
normally their manifestations are insanely limited
Q: My understanding is that part of the problem is that the Exatari don't have the same "significance" to reality as other species do
Is there a way to use Divinity to start changing that?
A: no
the Exatari are very much outsiders to that system
the warp cant give them plot armor, and plot armor is the primary measure of warp importance
you would need to remove warp shred, which would change the species so much as to be a new species
on the flip side the Exatari dont have to rebuild their entire techbase after the galaxy goes belly up
the necrons simply say no one gets plot armor really
they basically have a passive zone of influence where warp stuff is crippled
their technology is running on the original laws of physics
not the bastardized ones of the current age
its part of why you need to be a Hero or higher to fight necrons
you need that level of warp weight to overpower their inherent crippling of warp laws
Q: So would the "intended" endpoint of the Exatari be similar to the Necrontyr? Or does their status as Veil-based mean that they're going to do something weirder?
A: weirder
the Exatari are unbound in a way that neither the Old Ones nor Necrontyr were
their technology draws from the Veil and the borders of the veil with regards to both sides of the divide
insulating them from any great upheavals
warp law changing dont affect them, and the laws of physics changing also dont affect them
on the flip side they have problems digging deep into either side
the Exatari cant reach the same level of mastery over the warp or reality the Old Ones or Necrontyr ever reached

Q: Could we hand Divine Order to Emps or a Living Saint? As much as it'll cause us problems if deployed in our vicinity, it'll cause Chaos a lot of problems, everywhere, to constantly have their greatest offensive actions get a facefull of TYRANT INTERRUPT!!!
A: you could yeah, and in this case the weakness of Ruin tech leans in your indirect favor
you could easily enough after actualizing both libraries provide the tech priests with a design to concentrate and combine Divinity and Order
which could be fed into a generator allowing for a field of Divine Order to be produced
I will note that Chaos won't take that laying down
and it won't work to full effect on Cadia, due to the pylons
Q: Chaos is already trying to not take stuff lying down
Doesn't mean we're going to stop punching them
A: I mean on the order of unifying to force spawn exalted on your face. Granted it wont be permanent but it will be a constant issue for a few months
even non full powered exalted can fight entire sectors worth of people generally

Q: "Exalted are in the range of power of being able to delete solar systems at will"
Would Tier 10 Megastructure allow us to contest this on an even footing?
A: yes
Completed MS is able to just laugh in the face of full powered Exalted
it requires top end DAoT weapons to suffer damage

Q: How much Divine Order needs to get yeeted directly at an incompletely-manifested Exalted's face to give them a bad time
A: unless its used in a weapon infinite
Exalted are exceptionally hard to even slow down, let alone wound

Q: Would Emps/The Tyrant be willing to, effectively, owe us a Favor for this tech?
We'd be massively buffing a bunch of their actions.
"Emps and The Tyrant will materialize to fight back if Chaos invades outright, and they give us a 50% Suspicion discount" sounds like a sufficient repayment for the (unfortunate) extra attention.
If we have Emps/Tyrant summoning beacons built locally - given that Order can't be properly precog'd by Chaos - that should be at least some defense.
Q: The Tyrant isn't going to give us any favors
Emps might, in an extremely edge case
A: Emps would be willing to increase you from "Future threat to humanity" to "Might be worth allowing to live in the future once I get off this throne"
Tyrant would be willing to upgrade you from "Will suffer for eternity when I am born" to "I will let you die only a few eons after my birth"
Q: Emp's opinion of us can probably be summarized as "what the fuck did the spider do this time"

Q: If we had a ship, equipped it with Veil FTL, and warded it with Order - could we make it to Terra without Chaos being able to stop us?
(Obviously requires LOTS of research first.)
(Like a hundred turns of research maybe.)
Q: You may need to worry about the Custodians stopping us
Q: ...Fair point.
A: Chaos would be willing to sacrifice basically half their total power to stop that
Chaos is very determined to not stop existing
Q: ...how much of their power can Chaos afford to sacrifice?
A: as it stands right now infinite
since they just recoup it instantly
basically the way it works is that Chaos just yoinks power from themselves
for value in the present
so you are more bleeding the future or past dry
Chaos can be thought of more as a continuous existence where power can flow back and forth without loss
there are ages where they cant bring as much to bear
and there technically was an age where they were little more than motes
but currently they can draw on the power backlog from 30k to a nearly arbitrary future point
Q: Atemporality is a pain in the ass
Solution: find a way to inflict causality and time on the Warp
That way everybody gets to suffer equally
Q: Alternate solution: Gain Time Library at TL12+ and become pseudo-acausal ourselves.
Leon, how difficult would that actually be?
A: not that hard, the Exatari are one of the few races that would be able to handle the strain of that style of existence with anything approaching grace
Q: Emps: "Oh no, the spider is everywhen now"
A: the Aeldari, Necrons and Cythor Fiends are in that group
for personal acuasual nature you dont need Tier 2
Tech Level 8
its a fairly simple change when all is said and done
basically turning a 0 in a code to a 1
Q: "Action economy? I'll buy all of them, thanks."
A: I will note that you do need TL 16 to be able to move into your future
TL 8 is enough to unify your past
so to speak
Q: But how much is needed for your future to move into your now
A: TL 8
so your present can alter your past
but you need 16 to become fully acausal
Q: But when can your future alter your present
A: 16
Q: Okay
So no "my future self came back to give me the rest of the time travel mechanics"
A: no
Q: Fair
A: its inherently non timelooping
Q: That is respectable
A: basically it evicts you from the timestream
allowing you to then poke any event you engaged with in desired ways
from anywhen
Q: At 16 can you also fight a Chaos God exclusively at "now" and stop it from drawing from elsewhen
A: no
Q: Aw
A: 16 is enough to barely emulate a Chaos God's inherent nature
you would need 24 to exceed that nature
Q: Divine Time?
A: say hello to the C'tan enmass
Divine Time at that level would spontaneously produce more C'tan
that could have been

Q: What would be most likely to call Cegorach down on your soon-to-be-pied head
A: Revenant
Q: And aside from Ceg, who would Divine Revenant call?
A: Qah, and the Nightbringer, and the Flayer
Qah the Hrud god and possible old one shards
Q: Oh no
I see
Basically given the state of the 40k galaxy and Warp there is no Divine X that is even remotely safe to call (if you're not human; if you are, you might be able to get away with Divine Order)
A: that is pretty much true
Radiance is probably the safest since it only calls one C'tan: the Burning One, Nyadra'zatha - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
Q: "Known as among the most cruel C'tan"
sigh
At least it's broken like the others
One piece is powering the Silent King's car, another is (of course) in Trazyn's museum
So add Szarekh and Trazyn to the "called by Divine Radiance beacon" list

Q: ...is Divine Divinity even hypothetically an option, and would it just call literally everyone if someone managed to make it happen?
A: Divine Divinity would be very very very chaotic in the mundane sense of the word
it could do basically anything imaginable
make a custom afterlife
annihilate everything around it
break time
spontaneously summon everything divine in the universe
delete everything divine
delete the very concept of divinity
delete life itself
destroy the universe
and an infinity more

Q: "delete the very concept of divinity"
This one would probably be a net positive for 40k
A: it would end the eldar as a race
cripple humanity
kill all Living Mausoleums and more
Q: Why?
A: LMs can become divine
thus they no longer exist

Q: If we get Divinity to TL12, could we semi-safely run a massively depowered TL-1-equivalent Divine Divinity?
Basically, "sacrifice hilarious amounts of power/effect, in exchange for a modicum of control"?
A: No
Divine Divinity is impossible to control
you are trying to do the impossible with the impossible

Q: What about removing the concept of Divinity from everything, and then deleting Divinity as a concept? What would that do?
A: not possible
you can't remove the concept of Divinity without deleting Divinity

Q: Suppose we have:
* Supported humanity for 2 millennia
* Given Emps Divine Order
* Removed our own C'tan Control Code
* Saved the Imperium twice (once from an invasion and once by granting Humanity's Oversoul +3 millennia)
* Improved the Imperium's overall tech level to borderline DAoT levels
* Fixed the Golden Throne and rez'd Emps
What would Emps and the Tyrant think of us?
A: Tyrant "You are worthy of only suffering for a thousand years."
Emps "I guess I can let your people into the Imperium"

Q: Would being allowed into the Imperium have any repercussions in the Warp?
A: not for the Exatari
for humanity if its done by the order of Emps it would slightly shift the oversoul in regards to alien life
in a positive direction

(I lost track of copies; there were a bunch of things in this range that I didn't copy.)

if Isha counters Nurgle, Cegorach counters Tzeentch just as hard
but Cegorach is weakened in a different way to Isha that cripples him just as much
he doesn't use personal power, but riddles and random events to nudge future events to fall out as he wishes, but without pawns he is crippled
...
yeah, he cant enter the warp anymore
and is having to do a lot of work to keep his loophole from closing
his loophole in the Edict is weaker than Isha's
he is relying on the concept of the Playwright to avoid it, but it was made by the King who commands the Playwright
so his loophole is very tenuous and he has to keep changing variables to keep it from slamming shut on him
Q: Everyone knows, though, that the jester can say and do all kinds of shit that the king wouldn't let anybody else do
A: yeah, thats the reason its even possible
Q: Result: "make it funny"
A: but the Edict is a self updating system designed to prevent divine intervention so Cegorach has to keep updating his jokes/shows to keep things from closing
Isha has a much more absolute loophole in her Mother aspect of the Aeldari, in that by some takes she is the Mother of the Pantheon, and children are always able to see their mother when they wish
so her loophole is basically inviolable compared to Cegorach's
Q: So what kind of rituals would a Cegorach Template be useful for?
A: mucking with causality mostly
getting events to line up
one of Cegorach's powers is basically retcons
he can basically say "That event that just happened? Yeah I set that up five thousand years ago, suck it chaos."
even if he had nothing to do with it
Q: And presumably that means he also set up the required prep work to capitalize on it, even if he was blindsided.
A: pretty much
he can basically make plans that didn't happen, happen
and then exploit them succeeding
its the primary reason he hard counters Tzeentch by domains and nature so much
he can just twist Tzeentch's plans into a pretzel
and defang them at will more or less
Q: So where normies are like "if only I'd known X, I could have taken very simple actions to succeed" he's like "good thing I always knew about X and secretly took those actions while making it look like I was In trouble"
A: yup
Q: D
A: even if he literally didn't know about it until that microsecond
its how his minions can just show up out of no where
he basically retcons their positions constantly
Q: Except maybe the Solitaires. Depends on if his loophole restricted godhood still lets him overcome Blankness.
A: he holds their souls so yes
technically they aren't true Blanks
they are more emulating the nature of the Blank by abusing the mantle of the Playwright's Assistant
since only they can play the part of some roles
Q: So the whole "lost their souls to Slaanesh but kept moving on sheer bazinga" thing is just part of their narrative "IC"
A: everything Cegorach does is mired in symbology
their souls are given to Cegorach
via another loophole
basically Cegorach is the God of Loopholes at this point
Q: I'm reminded of the Jester homebrew which was obviously inspired by Harlequins and their level 20 class feature was "permanent Mind Blank as long as you wear the makeup. Laugh in the face of gods"
A: if there is a narrative or general law or assumption, you can assume that Cegorach has some way to loophole his way around it
Q: So would that mechanically equate to getting BoX or crit manipulation or something?
A: it would basically be a narrative alteration
if you get reinforcements it could be that your reinforcements contain a Legendary person
because you sent a letter out five centuries ago and it only just reached them
or it could be an entire chapter of Astartes because you informed them of some Relic in the past
so on so forth
it doesn't so much change the event, as expand the event in your favor
you would have always gotten reinforcements, but it would change which ones and why you got them

A: the Arrays are very good at their one task, namely borking the power tiering

A: generally [Veil Tech] gives options for things like Veil FTL, Veil FTL navigation, Veil Weapons, Veil Systems, Veil Construction and so on
Q: Veil FTL and Nav make sense, and you mentioned Veil Weapons are good at getting around defenses and that Veil Construction is where stuff like the Webway comes from, but what's Veil Systems?
A: computer systems that use the Veil as their medium would be one example, the entire meta library ecosystem would be another system so to speak although that would also fall under Veil Particles
Q: Are Veil Worlds possible?
A: thats pretty much the Realm

Q: Is there anything stopping us from Phase Forging our Calculation Hearts to give even bigger bonuses?
A: no, they are one of the few things that Invoked Laws of Math would work well on
A: Atraxas is less versed in Ingots than Laws, but he believes Physic, Gravity, Electron would be viable options

 

[Leon12431]

AN: Another fairly short update that was hard to figure out how to write, not that happy with it and Robinton helped edit/proofread it which helped a lot. I am somewhat in a slump regarding motivation for writing right now, not sure why, going to try to force the last part of this turn out soonish.

Nameria entered my office, notably displeased from her expression - although I could not determine the reason for her displeasure. It could not be because of her discovering the truth of my existence for that would have triggered a greater display. "I had hoped that you were better than this, Atraxas. Yet, you seem as blind to the plight of the common folk as all the others of your ilk. I have come here with an offer; I know you will reject it, but I have to try for them. Give the orphanages to me, give the orphans to my care, I do not want to see another generation reduced to nothing more than living puppets." Her voice was dead and simply tired, uncaring and yet firm.

I pulled back for I could not understand why she was doing this, what could I have done to incite this response. It could not be the augmentation of Harkar, since that did not link to this in any notable fashion. I could not see how it could link to my hidden research projects, leaving only the school projects remaining as the cause for this.

Yet, the question became: why was Nameria, one of the more levelheaded humans I knew, acting like this. "The education is being retooled to provide a sufficient education to everyone born on Shogi. My predecessor crippled the situation with incompetent teachers and a harsh curriculum that had little educational value; my new formation will correct the flaws introduced due to his actions." It was true after all: the current system had to be changed and I had already fleshed out a viable system to upgrade the situation to what I would consider passable in only three decades.

Nameria simply shook her head in despair, "How blind can you be, Atraxas? Your educational reform is improving nothing, it will result in nothing changing." She snarled as she turned to looking over the world from my office. "Everyone will be trained, but not everyone will be given the same chance. You will decree without care what people will learn.

"All based on mere aptitude tests when they are younger than seven years of biological age. A child that shows promising in engineering will be forced to learn the principles of engineering from six to fifteen and nothing more. You are destroying everything that is not hard and fast in your drive to correct the flaws in the system you inherited. I have seen your plans, Atraxas, failure is certain for most and those that fail to meet your standards will be cast out with little recourse, they will be barred from all jobs and left to rot on the streets. With the Emperor as my witness, if you proceed with this course I will do all in my power to tear you from that throne you disgrace!" Her voice echoed through the room as I pondered her words, but shrugged in the end, the plans had been made and set. Everything would work out in three decades to come, yes there would be millions that would not make the cut, but that is normal, most hatchlings could not handle the pressure inherent to success.

They would be given the essentials to live but nothing more, if they wished to improve their lot they would have to take their classes again. It was a clean and efficient system that would ensure that eventually everyone was trained according to their aptitudes.

"All will be trained to become specialists in their fields of aptitude. I see no problem inherent to this decision, yes they will be tested and assigned to their fields at an young age to better ensure their talents are nurtured. For those that fail and many will, they will be left with the bare essentials for life provided for them, but if they wish to improve their lot they will need to retake and pass their programs. I will ensure that everyone is graded evenly across their time in the scholas that will be built. I have heard of this thing on other worlds where teachers grade to the class; I will promise that this will never be allowed on Shogi. Everyone will be graded the same for a given class and there will be nothing to change the grade one receives. The system will be efficient and absolute, and it will work in three decades." My voice was cold, since there was no issue with my work, if there had been I would be willing to ponder it, but everything checked out. The pattern of logic sound and the chain of cause and effect examined and proven via long term analysis of other worlds.

Nameria was clearly shocked by my plan, but I could see her rage growing even as she breathed deeply to stabilize her emotions. A curious response for a species, but one that mattered little at the moment. "Atraxas, have you considered personal interest?" Her voice was tired once more but embers of rage lurked in it. I leaned back a bit as I considered her question for a few moments before answering, "I have, humans do show an increased proficiency in zones of interest regardless of inherent aptitude, it is for this reason that I have authorized hypnotherapy for any that desire it to shift their interest to align with their aptitudes. For those that have consistently failed in retaking the courses they will be mandatory sessions to correct the inefficiencies."

Nameria's jaw fell open in an expression of pure shock, "Atraxas, thats not how interests work at all!" I lean inward and off to the side interfacing with the data webs to check the files once more, noting that I was correct in that interests often corresponded directly to improve value and efficiency. "According to the data that the Adeptus Mechanicus has on the subject there is a roughly ten percent improvement to speed of learning and skill overall when interests align with the job given. With the aptitude testing and assignment it is feasible to offer courses to ensure that interests will align with aptitudes. They will not change anything else, all other interests will be untouched, this is a simple additional program to add an interest." I stated as I returned to working on the curriculum for the mechanical engineering branch of the schools, it was proving irritating to have to work around the various restrictions the adeptus mechanicus layered onto the field.

I wish I could do a more proper schooling, this was a crude and distasteful solution to the problem at hand. It's a corrupted version of what proper schooling would look like, but humanity does not have the longevity to be properly educated. Giving everyone their aptitude from day one and ensuring that all will be able to make it their passion is the best I can do for them at this moment, maybe in a few centuries I could do something more for my people, but for now it is sadly limited to this corruption of how I was taught as a hatchling.

With everything said and laid out on the table, I can guess as to Nameria's plan. She would officially move the orphanages into the control of the church, ending the technical separation between the two orginaziations that existed on Shogi. She would then train the orphans as she desired which based on my reading of her would be close to the style the teachers taught me and the other hatchlings.

It would fail, there is too much holding it back from working.

Yet, the chance must be given. I knew more than her, so her reactions was expected in a way. I hope that she proves me wrong, but logic and reason stand against her. Perhaps, the human tendency to ignore such things will pull her through. Yet, I can not take the risk for the entirely of my people, I have given much to ensure their future. I will not bring about their end at the hands of others in the Imperium for no fault of their own.

The option must be given and the choice was clear, only through a test could either of us prove our stance true. "I give to you the current orphans between the ages of newborn and five years of chronological age. You have thirty decades to complete their training to a level that proves that the average human can learn all you wish them to. I give you the curriculum I have prepared freely, for there is no sense in attempting to prevent you from recovering it from one of my schools. As long as fifty percent or more of the current orphans in the age range have met the lowest level of my standards in every field in addition to your personal additions, I will begin the process of revamping the Shogi educational system towards your design." The terms were fair and the best I could reasonably offer, I could only buzz slightly at the reduction in standards I had to accept, but even though she was far more than most, Nameria was only human. If she could bring her new students to par with mine or even close to par in all the fields I had made, with the addition of less absolute forms, I would happily accept her statements as true.

The odds as always are against her, but in this case I was on her side. The rage I had felt for the hatchlings being abused by the incompetent and malicious inductors had faded leaving me feeling empty as I was forced to confront how limited humans truly were. Akiona and even Harkar only succeed due to warp weight and not their natural skill, could that truly be considered skill when reality itself bends for them?

She glared up at me with determination burning within her soul; I could feel and see the Order and even faint Divinity flowing off of her form. She had taken the challenge and would give it her all - I do hope that she succeeds in the end. So much more could be done without this corrupted disaster of an education system I am condemning my people to use for the foreseeable future.

It will be better than the average for the Imperium, but that is a near non existent bar to clear - and yet it is all I am confident in achieving at the moment. So very much has to be done and completed to ensure that even this primitive system will hold up to the rigors I will place upon it. Regardless, I am sure of one thing: I will never let the teachers remain unaccountable and unobserved.

Their importance is great and so too is their value, those that do well will be rewarded greatly and those that fail to uphold my standards will be banished from Shogi forever. Yet, one annoyance has remained with me for decades: the befuddlingly weird concept of currency; that is what I must understand in order for this system to properly function.

We of the Exatari had a simple system: all goods of a given technological complexity were available to anyone that desired them. Anyone could request a phase shield, a particle lance or similar and it would cost them nothing. Yet, if one sought a Meta Shield they would be required to spend centuries or millennia serving the one they were requesting the device from. For at the end of it all, time was the only currency that mattered, and one hour was not universal.

The labor a Forge Scholar could achieve in a singular time interval is orders of magnitudes beyond what a civilian could achieve in the same time, even if they worked upon the same project and had the same materials. Thus one had to pay the maker back in time for the cost of the item, for all were busy ensuring the functioning of the Homeworld.

Those that desired complex items would give of their time to the service of the one they requested to build for them their desires. It was a simple and fair system for time had no true hold upon us; what did it matter if one spent five centuries serving a Forge Scholar in return for a phase shield or suit of powered armor phase forged to the highest grade? Any could spend millennia to receive a Meta Shield to pass onto another or through the heritage to their future hatchling.

In the end it was simple, and most of all there were no abstractions or retractions. Once a contract began there was no escape for either side, the details would be carried out without fail. In the rare case an Exatari truly died before the completion of the contract, the closest of kin would be brought to carry the burden for the remaining time.

In that singular case did the clean system became inefficient for it is rare for us to care about kin in the manner humans do. Only in a handful of situations do we denote the linkages of blood between our own - I know that several of my parents yet existed but never met them and that is something I find surprising. Not for never meeting them, but that I was created before their deaths or joining with the Living Mausoleums: it is rare for any Exatari to have a relationship akin to one between humans I have determined, yet perhaps that is why our system works.

We are uncaring in a way that humanity cannot be, we do not seek for status to lord over others, our value is inherent to our skills not any inherited trinkets. There are of course various hivelines that have amassed a great deal of complex technology over the eons of our existence, but that gives them no inherent value over any other of their respective class. Humanity on the other end, revolves around such perceptions of wealth. Giving a human a coin of silver makes them believe they have more than a coin of copper even if the coin of copper spends for more.

In the end perhaps that was my most critical of failures of understanding. A fundamental misunderstanding of the value of wealth used within human society. What was material wealth to a species that had no need to mine for over forty thousand cycles, a species that had eternity to live and thus accumulate vast hoards of material items, in short no value.

There was no purpose in over-hoarding of resources and there had not been for ages beyond even our memories. The secrets of refining material from base elements has all but been lost outside of a handful of the oldest yet active Living Mausoleums and us the Scholars of the Forge. Our fundamental understanding of the universe differs from that of the Adeptus Mechanicus; their records tell of the laws of entropy, a fact that I somehow missed for all these decades. Perhaps in my eagerness to begin the work, my duties presented me with, I ignored the obvious indication of the difference - for it is not the laws of entropy to us, but the principles thereof.

Yet, now it is clear that that is the core reason behind wealth being the driving force behind humanity. Unlike us and our predictions of life, they did not discover a way to generate material from a net positive energy cycle until long past their apex and even today they have near to nothing even approaching our capabilities in this field. Under this view it is now clear that I have miscalculated much, wealth is not a simple meaningless facet, but a critical abstraction of material value. Even if the coin itself is not forged of precious material to humans, nor directly backed by such material, it is in and of itself a representation of such material wealth.

At the very least now that I understand the issue at hand, I can begin upgrading the mining outposts and setting up greater mining arrays on other worlds.

The income I had already set into motion was meant as a supplemental trickle, not the landslide growth event that it actually was because of my misunderstanding. Hopefully I would be able to implement my alterations in time to gain the benefits that I can now see being achieved, if only time permits.

 

[Imaninjah93]

I think a major factor in your block with writing is, in my personal opinion and can be wrong, the massive bloat.

You use 20 words to describe a single concept and then reiterate that point. Take some time to trim up your paragraphs and maybe you'll find the words flowing more.