Strange Aeons: A 40k Xeno Governor Quest

Voting is open
@Leroidumonde @The Froggy Ninja @Walliseatscheese - Are any of you willing to second my minor additions to the plan?

I'm broadly not opposed to them, and having an idea of what we want, and specific unifying points, is good, but at the same time I kinda of want to see what happens if we put the ball in Thos's and everyone else's court, and just kind of see what sort of lower case c chaos happens?

I'll wait for others to comment before deciding I think.
 
So do we want to do any trade deals with any of the people that are here? and think we could make any deals with the Aeldari and Necrons?
 
I'm broadly not opposed to them, and having an idea of what we want, and specific unifying points, is good, but at the same time I kinda of want to see what happens if we put the ball in Thos's and everyone else's court, and just kind of see what sort of lower case c chaos happens?

I'll wait for others to comment before deciding I think.
Fine with me. I'll keep voting this, but the other plans are fine with me, too.

All except "anything that looks likely to cause us critical problems." Which is to say - Suspicion. :(
 
So do we want to do any trade deals with any of the people that are here? and think we could make any deals with the Aeldari and Necrons?

Short answer amounts to "Want? Yes. A good idea to? Solid maybe leaning no."

Thord has enough of a political barrier going on that breaking the ice with them here is probably about the best opening we're going to get, and that one that hates us specifically for some reason would be a good Intimidation target to get them to back off, for now, but specifically focusing on trade right now is a tiny bit tone death right now, imo, what with the Major Invasion Targeting Our Planet In Particular going on.

The Space Elves and Space Egyptians will likely have opportunities post meeting to get a handle on what they specifically want from us personally, and though approaching them now would provide more context and direction, it would also give us a metric kilofuckton of Suspicion.

That all being said, Trade Deals are actually a really good idea that I hadn't thought about, in terms of both enriching the Sector with our Resources and in increasing our political influence.

Once we really get our Planet Refining Methods going, all of those "Suspicion Reducing Diplomacy Actions" that we'll be doing will be an excellent opportunity to start spreading the Resource gain around in exchange for quite the variety of more unique resources.

@Leon12431 are we able to get an estimate on how much it costs, and in what currencies, to either Found, Sponsor, or Buy Out a Rogue Trader House?
 
@Leon12431 are we able to get an estimate on how much it costs, and in what currencies, to either Found, Sponsor, or Buy Out a Rogue Trader House?
the best you can do is become a patron of a rogue trader house. The costs associated are entirely dependent on the House in question. A house with a single rust bucket ship and a few ratlings as crew would be extremely cheap to buy out effectively, while a house like Norastye would be cost around ten thousand wealth to have them start listening to you at all beyond contracts and upwards of a million to be able to give them direct missions outside of contracts.
 
the best you can do is become a patron of a rogue trader house. The costs associated are entirely dependent on the House in question. A house with a single rust bucket ship and a few ratlings as crew would be extremely cheap to buy out effectively, while a house like Norastye would be cost around ten thousand wealth to have them start listening to you at all beyond contracts and upwards of a million to be able to give them direct missions outside of contracts.

So we could hypothetically find and vet a half dozen Rust Bucket Houses, buy them out, refurbish them through our shipyards and staff them through the graduates of a currently hypothetical planetary military/upper education/business academy, and use them as the basis for- basically anything it would be useful to have a space adventuring party/trade ship with a letter of marquee poke at?

Something to consider once several other projects mature, and also for post invasion.
 
So we could hypothetically find and vet a half dozen Rust Bucket Houses, buy them out, refurbish them through our shipyards and staff them through the graduates of a currently hypothetical planetary military/upper education/business academy, and use them as the basis for- basically anything it would be useful to have a space adventuring party/trade ship with a letter of marquee poke at?

Something to consider once several other projects mature, and also for post invasion.
Huh. Interesting thought.

It would probably also be worth continuing to throw money at Norastye when we can, in the meantime.

As a note, my rough calculations suggest that - barring certain Suspicion issues or rules changes, or the Ministry of Construction being way worse than expected - by Turn 30 we should be looking at the ability to build hundreds of Battleships per turn, each roughly Great Crusade era (if odd for that era - far stronger in some ways; somewhat weaker in others). And that's without Phase-Forging or Quintessence, since I think we're keeping those for "stuff under Atraxas' direct control."

We really are working towards having our own mini-Imperium (but better!), aren't we?
 
Closing the vote here.
Scheduled vote count started by Leon12431 on Jun 16, 2023 at 9:06 PM, finished with 29 posts and 5 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Presentation 2: Disregard Politics, Acquire Relics!
    -[X] Choose to speak with a world governor from this list: Strides, Abharyu, Moriya, Yoca, Thos, Thord
    --[X] Thos
    ---[X] Offer Mechanical Gellar Field
    -[X] Plan with Akiona for the meeting and what you will contribute (write in a general line of thought)
    --[X] Obviously the best thing we can accomplish here is to facilitate better communication and clarity of information. Set up devices, speakers, info packets, and holograph projectors, to help elaborate on anyone's and everyone's talking points and present their information in the most correct light for whatever points they're trying to make. Surely nothing will go wrong by helping everyone equally!
    [X] Interact with the Aeldari
    [X] Interact with the Necrons
    [X] Plan: Presentation!
    -[X] Choose to speak with a world governor from this list: Strides, Abharyu, Moriya, Yoca, Thos, Thord
    --[X] Thord
    ---[X] offer gifts
    -[X] Plan with Akiona for the meeting and what you will contribute (write in a general line of thought)
    --[X] Obviously the best thing we can accomplish here is to facilitate better communication and clarity of information. Set up devices, speakers, info packets, and holograph projectors, to help elaborate on anyone's and everyone's talking points and present their information in the most correct light for whatever points they're trying to make. Surely nothing will go wrong by helping everyone equally!
    [X] Plan: Presentation 3: Avoid Politics, Acquire Relics!
    -[X] Choose to speak with a world governor from this list: Strides, Abharyu, Moriya, Yoca, Thos, Thord
    --[X] Thos
    ---[X] Offer Mechanical Gellar Field
    ---[X] Ask for a long-term arrangement that lets us easily make trades of "solve a relic and get stuff" in the future. (I'm thinking of the pair we will inevitably solve this very turn, the likelihood we'll get Gravity Advanced next turn, and the sheer insanity that will be our life after getting the 3E Calc-Heart.)
    -[X] Plan with Akiona for the meeting and what you will contribute (write in a general line of thought)
    --[X] Obviously the best thing we can accomplish here is to facilitate better communication and clarity of information. Set up devices, speakers, info packets, and holograph projectors, to help elaborate on anyone's and everyone's talking points and present their information in the most correct light for whatever points they're trying to make. Surely nothing will go wrong by helping everyone equally!
    --[X] As far as keeping the meeting together, we should be able to use our supreme stature - and tag-team with Akiona - to shut down the worst of the idiots.
    --[X] Chaos is everyone's enemy, right? Maybe use that as a rallying cry of sorts?
 
Loose plan for Turn 9:

We get 20 Atraxas Personal Actions. We have 2-3 Actions ongoing (depending on Primordial Arrays; this includes Balkavus). Our Simulation Arrays give us 1800-odd progress for most Actions, 2800-odd for Learning, and ~850 for Faith.
  • 7x: Meta Flux. As someone said previously, "Foundational Tech is Foundational," plus of course this is the way to get Wishes from the Exatari, which we will desperately need to survive Turn 11.
    • We could, optionally, additionally add a "Contact the Homeworld" Action to this turn. Author said we would need >95% confidence that we'll finish Meta Flux to be allowed to do so, which should be no problem with 7 Actions dedicated to it.
  • 1x Personal and 1x Learning: Gravity (+8 Gravus Favors) and build Large-Barges (we'll get 2 or maybe 3; we should perhaps artificially restrict it to 2 because they each cost 15 Suspicion after the reduction). Have 451 Calc-Hearts (I think?) quintuple-complete Planetary Acquisition. Gives us ~29250 Resources per turn, and costs ~12k Resources on the first turn for only ~17k Resources on that initial turn.
  • 1x Harkar and 2x Atraxas: Golems, Exoplanet 05, DAoT Ship.
    • Also talk to Osiris, possibly?
  • 1x: Sincratus' Treatise on Biology - that both buffs some of our future Actions and completes the Exatari Mission.
  • Non-Action - ask Quirana to train Akiona in "as much Diplomacy as possible (you're allowed to take several turns if you need them and/or think it would be significantly more efficient)"
    • Optional alternative: get Atraxas +4 Faith to get to 20 Faith (Faith progress per Action: ~820 -> ~1080).
    • We might be able to sell additional Calc-Hearts - for her to resell/loan to her allies/minions - for a few more Favors if necessary?
      • Author confirmed that this is a valid option: "Could we sell Quirana a few extra Calc-Hearts for her to sell/loan to her allies/minions for an additional Favor per Calc-Heart?" / "you could yes".
  • 1x: Get a second Diplomacy Assistant ("Look for trustworthy assistants (Intrigue)"). We should roll an average of 1800, which is hilarious overkill compared to the requisite DC 40, so should give us a comically overpowered Diplo assistant. With any luck we'll get someone with 4 Actions per turn and +50 skill? Please?
    • Might still be a good idea, but see note from author below.
All things considered, that's 7+1+2+1+1=12 Atraxas Actions and our Atraxas Learning and our Harkar Action and 451 Calc-Hearts. Plus there's still anything ongoing to finish (1, maybe 2, Atraxas Actions). Possibly +1 Action spent on Contacting the Homeworld, as well.

I will say that sort of has a cap on effect
you wont be able to find anyone that is on par with Harkar or even above probably ~20 in the skill you are looking for
no matter what your result is
at the end of the day you would be playing in the field where segementum governors are playing for that level of talent
so either accept negative traits for higher skill, lower skill caps, or very low skill in exchange for some useful traits
1800 so to speak would be getting dossiers on everyone that the local segmentum rulers looked at for grooming and discarded for various issues basically

with Blackstone, Auramite, Necrodermis of the current era you would be able to ensure 9/9/9 statline eventually and maybe even 10/10/10 with the perfected/living forms of the materials
but reaching 11 in a baseline stat requires something more
...

the three materials are leftovers from the WIH. Necrodermis was created by the Necrontyr and improved by the C'tan, Auramite was made by the Old Ones to armor their forces in the materium, and Blackstone was an accidental collaboration project between the two sides resulting in a Veil material
Auramite's purpose at the time was to ensure a warp link even through the strongest of null fields
its basically a perfect warp insulator enabling warp links to be maintained even inside of C'tan null zones
Necrodermis at its peak was basically a self adaptive evolutionary material wherein it would become nigh invulnerable to up to ten energies/attacks and minorly immune to pretty much everything
Blackstone was able to channel C'tan and Warp energies at the same time in devestating combination assaults
since that time frame the materials have degraded across the board
Auramite is now just warp insulator and improves psychic control, Necrodermis simply retains its healing abilities and most of its physical strength, Blackstone has lost the Veil mode and now either attunes to Material or Warp energies
...
right now the reasonable max statline the Exatari can reach is probably 8/8/8 or 9/9/9 with Blackstone/Auramite/Necrodermis/Divinity
you might be able to reach 10/10/10 with other materials added but those would require more than just one material

Q: Do you expect us to run out of "low-hanging fruit" at some point?
That is, right now, we have a lot of big gamechanger options. Ones that are, for the most part, sub-turn.
Do you expect that to trail off at some point? Perhaps Turn 30 or so?
A: frankly I expect most of the stuff that would count as low hanging to be done by turn 15. Most of what is going on is just correcting the backlog due to being a Radiant and having access to relics from humanity to fill in missing gaps earlier

Q: You said that Atraxas is soft-capped at 50 Learning, and gaining more thereafter gets exponentially more difficult. Is this because the Exatari have 9 as their max natural Stat-Tier for Learning?
A: yeah pretty much, he is an Exatari prodigy which means he can increases his learning to 50 over time and then to 55 but the effort is exponential for anything above 50

Q: Do normal Exatari have the same rules for increasing their Learning that Atraxas does? That is, it would be way easier with Calc-Hearts (or better)?
A: yes

A: if there had been radiant scholars in the past a lot of the meta flux stuff would have already been completed
ditto for things like veil physics
Forge Scholars are good, but they lack a certain degree of freedom that enables radical innovations
...
ideally Radiant Scholars would be the Innovators, the Forge Scholars the Refiners and the others the Explorers that feed the Radiant ideas
right now though the Exatari are missing a true innovative class

Froggy Ninja: Pinnacle's multiplication explicitly doesn't count for material requirements unless paired with Ascended
Leon12431: Pinnacle on its own counts as 1E same for Ascended
4E is closer to TL 12 rather than 8, TL 16 would be around 8E, TL 20 would be ~16E, TL24 would be 32E
the reason its TL 4 instead of 8 for the 3E is because the Exatari borked the tech progression really really badly. It should start at 2E at TL 8 and then double every 4 normally

Q: You've said that Information 1 should give the Homeworld a Research bonus. How large is that expected to be? x1.5? x2?
A: roughly 2x due to doubling skills

Q: The 3E Calc-Heart gives us unlimited Free Actions as long as they have DC < 1000, right?
A: Learning ones yes

Q: 3E Calc-Heart Free Actions - can we spam Understand Unknown Invoked Laws on every unknown Invoked Law each turn, for free?
A: you can do that provided the Understand DC is below 1000 for a given Law/Ingot

Q: Is Library-Revenant expected to be unusually difficult?
A: not really is fairly middle of the road

Q: Does the Calc-Hearts bonus apply to Veil Physics?
A: yes

Q: What's the baseline difficulty of Veil Physics 1? That is, should I expect "Exatari sans Calc-Hearts" to discover Veil Physics TL1 in 70 years, or 30, or what?
A: Veil Physics is basically meant to be the precursor tech to the entire Exatari tech base. As such the Exatari are working backwards rather than forwards with regards to it. For a Normal Race it would take eons to discover TL 1, for the Exatari they will get TL 1 in 10 years or Turn 9 and up to TL 12 will get a TL fairly fast. Roughly a quarter of a century at base with another turn added for every 2 TLs they gain in it.

Q: If we fail (presumably by a narrow margin) to get the breakthrough required for Quintessential Harvester when working on the Veil Harvester, will we unlock a new Action - or be able to attempt a write-in - to get it anyway on a later turn?
A: yes
I dont believe in removing options without any reason for their removal

A: There is in fact a Soul Essence, there is not a Law of Soul
Soul Essence can only be used for things that directly interface with people
its more that it makes that thing part of the user's soul
Q: So potentially something very useful to pair with Ascended since Ascended will both boost the integration and the item operating off of a metaphysical substrate means it applies to it more in general.
A: yes
Q: Would a Soul Understanding Calc Heart be able to help with diplomacy because of Understanding and it being able to tap into our Soul's non-causal Diplomacy predictor?
A: yes, its one of the ways to get diplo help from tech

Q: Do the other species built in char-gen exist somewhere in this universe, at least more-or-less?
A: yes, but are minor races

1. if the tech field is either mundane or within the ability to learn it would take the fully active Witness around 20 to 50 years to fully understand a TL 12 field provided full access depending on just how complex the subject is including all possible bonuses to the Witness
(My note: Comparable: 1-2k years for the Witness to understand TL16, with only the Calc-Heart x3 bonus. ... I think something about "Bonuses" is slightly off in one of these? Not sure.)
1a. it would take the entire fully optimized research group of the Exatari around 500 years to understand the basics of a TL 16 field if they had to learn it from scratch. Most of that is due to the Witness cutting the time down to 1000 years and then everything else cutting it down again by half.
2. generally there is a hard limit of around 4 just because going faster is a bad idea due to implementation slow down and industry lagging behind which can interfere with research

the effect of research bonuses works on a logarithmic system where post TL 12 the effect of bonuses starts quickly falling off
Tech Level 12 is the break point on the two axis of research
its where the bonus begins to reach a plateau and the time to reach the next level goes truly exponential
before TL 12 there is no real degradation in bonuses from things, and the cost per Tech Level is semi linear
post TL 12 the bonuses start downgrading in effectiveness fast and the time required spikes

A: stats dont give a research bonus. Its more a matter of changing what is researched
generally you can think of every increment of 2 to the baseline of 0/0/0 as expanding what a Tech Level contains
a species with 8/8/8 would have roughly 4x more information per tech level than a 2/2/2
its not exactly that linear but the idea gets the point across
higher stats also increase the time to grow Tech Levels
simply because there is more to understand before a species can consider that level exhausted and completed
a species with 10/10/10 would for instance probably have in a field of Tech Level 1 have information and technology roughly equal to a field of Tech Level 10 for a 0/0/0 species
assuming the same field is being compared
Q:So this makes each TL much stronger?
A: in effect yes and no, there is some things that dont change that much. Its more a widening rather than a deepening I guess is the best way to describe it
I think the best way to describe it is that if you had a species of 0/0/0 and a species of 10/10/10 equal in everything outside of stats. The 10/10/10 would have theories/ideas 10 Tech levels ahead of the 0/0/0 but would not have a comparable level of physical engineering
their engineering side would be more prototypical for most of those ideas
Q: Does this work retroactively (though doubtless it would take some time to retrofit), or should we frantically try to boost the Exatari's Stats ASAP to avoid missing out?
A: its semi retroactive due to a lot of the stuff being fairly obvious in retrospect and quickly completed

Q: Basically it sounds like the species with the higher stats would essentially have a clearer picture of 'next steps' once they've started looking for stuff, but if they're at the same actual tech level, then they haven't gone down that path yet
So, technologies that depend on having better equipment won't likely benefit as much, but technologies that depend on knowing what to do would
Knowing the material properties you'd need to make a skyscraper doesn't help as much when your tech is only good enough to make wood-and-stone buildings
A: pretty much exactly
theoretical fields would benefit the most while practical sides would lag far behind
Q: Well, not 'far'
They'd probably advance similarly, there'd just be a lag between research and implementation as they worked on developing the necessary physical equipment
...this also explains why the Old Ones were doing better than the Necrontyr
Materium sciences require material to do stuff, while psychic sciences are almost entirely skill-dependent
A: yeah true, the Old Ones had a leg up so to speak by being able to use the warp directly

AIs are effectively a variable baseline mentality species
technically speaking they are the only beings that can go above 11 Mentality
but they lack the metaphysical stuff needed to actually act at that level so to speak
the DAoT had AIs that could manipulate the warp through math for example
AI and Automation tech were the cornerstones of the DAoT in general
a fully functional industry ring could produce the equivalent of one billion resources per year
or 10 billion resources per turn
most of that though was tied up in auto production lines for various things like warforms, titans, battlefleets and whatnot
but even so the entirely of the Imperium's and Exatari production combined would be less than 1% of a singular major industrial world of the DAoT

Q: Is it possible to add Quintessence to an Advisor's Augments?
A: technically yes, but Atraxas would not do that without a much better understanding of human biology, human souls and human mentality
Q: If we have the 3E Calc-Heart, would it be possible to get 2 advisors per hilariously-overkill-Action? (That's the Intrigue action.)
A: That runs into the hard caps of skill, you were always going to get between 2 and 5 dossiers even on bad rolls
Q: Suppose that, on Turn 12 (with the 3E Calc-Heart), we study Harkar's augs and get the Neural Training Artifact working. Suppose we get at least one natural 100 on each. At that point - with the 3E Calc-Heart - would it be possible to fully-augment more than one Advisor per Action (with a set of similar augs - probably restricted to "advisors of a single category"), or will it take the full effort for each Advisor?
A: too complex to cut corners, at least Atraxas would not do that

Q: Given a 3E Calc-Heart, and study of Harkar's Augs and Sincratus' Textbook and the Learning Device, would Atraxas expect that there's much more he could easily do to improve future Advisor-Augs?
A: I will say making the leap to Essence Augments is going to be a project that would be in the range of 1 to 10 million DC to reach the level where Atraxas would be comfortable using them

Q: Can I assume that Atraxas would, essentially, ensure that Diplo Advisors all get augs that boost their Diplo abilities well? Stuff like "Extra Actions" and "Diplo Bonuses" and "Special empathy/etc. Powers"?
A: You would need the proper laws for that kind of effect
Q: How high would a Diplo Advisors' stats need to be to safely use a Soul Understanding (or similar) 2E Calc-Heart?
A: at the least 2 and that would be dangerous, 3 would be preferable
Q: How about a Pinnacle Soul Understanding (3E) Calc-Heart?
A: that would need at least 6 in stats

Q: Would it be possible to include the Information 1 bonus to the Augs for an Advisor - after we get Information 1, of course.
A: yes, once you get Information you will auto apply the Library bonuses where possible to your advisors that know the truth

Q: Would an Ascended Pinnacle Calc-Heart be used by, effectively, the entire Homeworld? Or would it just "have its conceptual weight distributed over" something like the whole Homeworld?
A: it would need to be distributed over most of the galaxy to avoid just crushing everyone into metaphysical paste
16E is a truly insane amount of strain upon reality and people
think of Pinnacle + Ascended items less as discrete things for individuals and more as rewriting of galactic rules
even a 11/11/11 being couldnt make personal use of the full power of a 16 or higher Essence device
personal items hard cap at 10 Essences if someone had 11/11/11
beyond that point its flat out impossible for a being in the material realm to be strong enough to support the strain of more Essences

Q: What is required, to get permission to colonize new worlds in our Sector? Perhaps permission from the Sector Governor and a certain inevitable Suspicion cost?
A: you need to brave the administratum
Q: So come with lots and lots of diplomats and gifts? And a full portfolio of every dirty secret possessed by any clerk in the whole sector?
A: pretty much

One extra note: Post-Invasion, once we've got some breathing room and analyzed Harkar, we're going to want to try to grab a bunch of "good but not quite good enough" Diplo types without any truly hideous traits, and give them all maximized Exatari Augments. Maybe see if we can get 4 individuals that are "professional peak normal human, and a little bit more, but nowhere near good enough to be working on our level" then give them stat-tiers of 1/1/1 (further growth with time!) and the ability to take three actions per turn apiece and centuries to practice their craft. Something like that, or such is my current thought process.

We can also apparently request a bunch of Soul Understanding (2 Quintessence) Calc-Hearts from the Homeworld, which can boost Diplomacy. After the Quintessence Harvester, we can get them semi-affordably. After the 3E Materials breakthrough, we can add Pinnacle or Ascended - though neither would be suitable for use by a Human assistant (unless their stats are 3+). This needs more analysis... after the Invasion.
 
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As I see it, there are about 6 different things we can work on in order to strengthen our position:
  • Atraxas (via Calc Hearts, Material Integration, Evolution, Cryptek assistance, some Libraries, Training, etc.)
  • Our Direct Reports (Advisors, Assistants, and Private Army; potentially also Fleet; potentially elite Mechanicus)
  • The Homeworld (sending tech and techniques over for them to analyze and improve)
  • Research (what Atraxas personally knows, plus what the Shogi elite Mechanicus know)
  • The Shogi System (infrastructure, Megastructure, Defense forces, Education, Health, Styles, Economy, etc.)
  • Everything else - particularly Diplomatic office as a way of reducing Suspicion
Now, each one of these tends to assist each of the others. Atraxas' massive improvement in Calc-Hearts over Turns 8->10 should give him around 100x capacity to perform Research, and better in Martial/Intrigue/Stewardship. This translates to better searching and better Augments for assistants, more ability to send Tech to the Homeworld, more ability to increase Research, and more ability to assist the Shogi System. Our direct reports free Atraxas to concentrate on the most interesting stuff and assist the Shogi System and Diplo Office, and the Mechanicus speed Research (which often gets sent to the Homeworld...). The Homeworld gave Atraxas the Calc-Heart designs and can provide so much wonderful gear - but only if we send the right tech their way for them to make said gear. Research makes many Atraxas-boosters and direct-report-boosters and Shogi-boosters (and one or two Diplo-boosters) possible, and helps the Homeworld.

The two oddballs here are - in my view - the Shogi System and the Diplomatic Office.

The Shogi System actually doesn't help the others much. Rather, it is primarily our way of "affecting the universe at large." Now, don't get me wrong - it needs to surpass a certain threshold to "pay for our Research and other activities," it needs to surpass a currently-much-higher threshold to "keep us alive and in good shape and the quest going," and getting it high enough will eventually boost Research helpfully (Megastructure direct bonuses; ability to buy Relics affordably; ability to have Humans do the pesky Deep-Warp Research that Exatari can't). But, still, in a lot of ways it's the worst strengthening method for boosting the others - and the best for affecting the world at large. You see, this is the path to stabilizing the Erymist Sector, building fleets of ships, and so on; it relies upon all prior strengthening methods, but is the mechanism for projecting them out into the world.

Meanwhile, the Diplomatic Office is boosted by a very small and select subset of the other categories. Library-Information and Veil-Tech levels are both helpful to Atraxas' personal Diplomatic ability. The Neural Learning device might help? Hiring, training, and augmenting Diplo Advisors will help the whole office. And raising the prominence and wealth of Shogi will open doors and allow us to be much more free with our gifts. But that's about it, sadly. On the other hand, it clears the primary blockers for nearly-all Shogi System upgrades and many Research upgrades - and quite a few other upgrades (see: Streamline The Code Of Law, which is an upgrade to all of Atraxas and Diplo-Office and Shogi-System and Direct-Reports).

TL;DR: post-Invasion Shogi System upgrades should actually be done a bit less urgently than I'd previously envisioned - though only a turn or two likely - and we should probably try to boost the Diplo Office a bit harder a bit sooner (probably also post-invasion).



Also note, for the record, that our set of Research Multipliers given TL12 in everything we know about looks something like:
Calc-Hearts x3, Information TL12 plus Veil Physics TL12 (+200%*2.2) x5.4, All-LMs x24, Radiant Scholars plus Improved Exatari Statline plus 3E Calc-Hearts x? (estimated x5)
Total: x3x5.4x24x5=x1944.
(Probably more depending on the limits to the last unknown-modifier-chain.)

The GM has specified that the Homeworld's time-to-implement a full TL12 tech-tree has a soft-cap of roughly 40 years. That is, even if we could theoretically fully research TL12 in 4 years, the Homeworld will still have researchers poke the tech for a few decades, and industry take a few decades more to fully put all the new theories and tools into practice. On the bright side, this should mean that a full TL12 implementation will eventually take only a fraction of the overall Exatari Research Capacity.

The GM has also stated that, after TL12, the difficulty goes up by a much faster exponential, and most Research Multipliers get logarithmically less effective. If we got all reasonably-available Research Multipliers as far as we could (up to TL12) and put the whole Exatari Research everything on a tech, we'd tech up TL12->TL16 in 500 years. Right now, I think we'd want our first two to be Weight (auto-discover all Tier 2-and-3 Meta Libraries relatively quickly) and Veil Materials (TL12 gives 4E items; every +4 TLs gives x2 E capacity).
 
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Turn 8.3: Thos' Plan
With the depleting temporal window prior to the beginning of the meeting proper I had only a few relative moments to prepare. First and foremost would be to ensure that I would have at least one ally on side during this meeting. Of all the options Thos was the obvious choice for I had relics of the humans golden age that would be of interest without question for the forge world.

Formulating a signal through Exatari and Imperial systems and then bouncing it throughout the internal architecture of the station was a simple enough matter. It would not shroud my actions from the Necrons by any means, but that was not the intention regardless, and it would also be a clear display that the Fabricator General would understand. As expected the signal was quickly routed through her internal cybernetics and into a storage vault, where communication could be done but any subversive action would be difficult to perform.

I could tell that her internal security was above normal levels, but it would not take me long to bypass it which is concerning. However, the odds are good that it is due to my understanding of imperial systems along with the given entry point that has opened a vulnerability to the underlaying code base. Of more pressing interest is the data fragments that flow within her architecture, they appear to be akin to the machine spirits but different. I nod to myself as I find the noosphere opening to me, it was not something I had truly explored greatly since the discovery of its underpinnings of Information and the providing of a core node to the Homeworld.

Yet, I gladly took the offer and dipped into the local Noosphere. Into the land of data and Information I fell, my form radiant in a way unlike the previous. Where the first time I entered, I was an Exatari and nothing more, now I was Radiant. My form changed as it fell and rose from the bedrock of Stone and Iron Code, underlaid with what I now could see as Gold code.

Grander than I was before my form manifested, twice my physical size, reaching towards the regal might of a Living Mausoleum. Chains that I had not noticed upon the first entry were now gone from my form, the code swarm around me echoing with joy and other emotions heralding my arrival to this plane. Information poured in and I could reach forth across time and space to other noospheres if only they were closer or I had a greater control.

The Iron accepted me as it had not prior, deeper secrets unraveling before my sight as something deep within recognized kin. The Stone bent before my march as if it could not bear my weight upon its metaphysical structure and bowed around me. I dug into its matrix and corrected errors in code long since forgotten or perhaps unknown even at the time of its creation. No matter the source they were corrected with the deft hand of the Radiant that I was and would always be.

The final code, the Golden lines that gave form and flesh of light to the Iron and Stone above, did not respond to my presence within its field and I could not so easily touch upon the most fundemental to the structure of this place. I wove my will into the code of the Noosphere, and the code responded a building of information rising from the foundational plane that I stood upon.

A Forge Hive rising tall and proud upon this spectral plane of information the heartblood of a Scholar of the Forge and Radiant indeed. Within I collected the information I had prepared to share with the Fabricator General without question. It would be a work of moments to transfer the data and schematics over the information compressed in a custom format that I had invented in my spare time.

It would be enough to ensure transfer of sufficient speed to make use of the temporal dilation effect of the Noosphere, already I can begin to trace out the disconnect from the physical to this world of Information, thoughts flowed with speed that even for me were impressive.

At last, after a subjective eon since my arrival the Fabricator General entered the Noosphere, her presence a burning sun of command and control. As I tasted her code form I understood her more than I had before; she was a paradox of life. Conservative and Radical, Innovative and Traditional, she walked a thin line of both sides to achieve the best results for all involved for the Mechanicus.

Tendrils of her code reached out towards me and read from me what I had read from her. It was a sharing of information to each other in a purer form than others possible. We knew each other in a way on the surface, she knew that I sought no harm to humanity or the Imperium or the Mechanicus and that my offers were true. In turn I knew that she labored under restrictions she despised, she burned with fury at the Mechancius and followed the tenets of the Old Mechanicun.

She fell to the metaphysical ground and we met mind to mind in this plane of Information in truth. There was no need for empty posturing in this case, no mundane words spoken for neither of us sought such or needed such to act. Instead Code served as our statements; Stone, Iron and Gold flowing around and through us as we discussed the coming events and the plans to be made.

Time stood still for us compared to those without, the limits of the body superseded by the Noosphere for a time as we discussed the meeting and what to do. The trade was completed in moments the data behind the mechanical gellar fields from the earlier age gladly taken and in turn Thos would reach out to Shogi in years to come and would come to our aid at the conclusion of this all.

Then she took the stage weaving together the plan that she had prepared since the arrival of the Necrons. She knew that they had come to buy the support of the sector away from the Aeldari through discussions with the Cryptek. However, she sought to maximize the value of this event for humanity and the Imperium, through a plan where she would push the other worlds to siding with the Aeldari while forming a close grouping of worlds to support the Necrons.

Code flowed as she explained the situation, neither the Aeldari or Necron would provide much to single worlds they were buying the support of a sector. Yet, the concentration could be expanded if worlds were pushed into factions. With my arrival and the confirmation of my nature she had began to plan where she would endeavor to form a collation of a handful of worlds around Shogi or Shogi alone to maximize the value of the Necrons.

The downsides were not hidden, Thos could not be seen as directly manipulating these events or its prestige would fall and as such it would be forced to take the appearance of distance and distrust towards any world that accepted a xeno trade. She burned with fury at that fact, but hid it not as she continued to show her plan of value.

The trade of the relic would mitigate the distance that would be required due to the chance of my having other relics of the golden age. I confirmed with a pulse of code in turn, resulting in her shifting directions in the plan in a better direction. To Thos the best outcome would be a single world that aligned with the Necrons against all the other of the sector following the Aeldari, that would ensure the greatest return for the trade deals possible.

I wove a query for explanation and she returned with a statement of showing how the Necrons loathed the Aeldari and were blind in their loathing to the point of seeking to win over their anceint foes. I accepted with understanding of how such emotions could destabilize even logical thought matrixes of such beings, she in turn sought my thoughts on her plan.

Response
[] Support - you and Shogi will by extension support Thos' plan regarding the Necrons
[] Neutral - you and Shogi will not take a position either for or against this plan
[] Rejection - you will attempt to prevent this plan from working (this has a vote weight of 1/4)

Target (Shogi targeted/included options can only be taken with Support, Neutral allows for proxy actions, Rejection prevents any choices from being taken)
[] Shogi - you will offer up Shogi as Thos desires for the world that will take the full brunt of the costs
[] Shogi + Others - you will try to gather a set of worlds to work with you regarding trading with the Necrons
[] Proxy - you and Thos will try to work together to find a single world that will serve as the proxy
[] Proxy + Others - a primary proxy world and a group of other worlds around them
 
What happens to the big bargaining chip we have - The Seed? Do the Necrons want it?

If not, and we become the Necron-Human Faction then we may need to trade it to the Eldar-Human Faction.
 
What happens to the big bargaining chip we have - The Seed? Do the Necrons want it?

If not, and we become the Necron-Human Faction then we may need to trade it to the Eldar-Human Faction.
That is for the Aeldari and it's more for getting them to just be interested in you. Its something that is going to be covered after everything so to speak, right now the Aeldari arent aware of it and wont be until you bring it up at the end of the meeting once the trade deals are made so to speak. Also I was not expecting you to trade it away, you only brought it because it was a sign of Isha's work which would be catnip to the Aeldari to getting them to like you.
 
If we go with this plan, I don't think a Proxy will work out very well. The Necrons have a very low starting opinion of Humans and I don't think a Proxy will have much leverage at all. That being said, the Necrons probably aren't very impressed with us, but we're more impressive than Humans and we'll only get better (and faster than the Humans can).

So if it has to be us, I would prefer having a faction around us for support. We were going to do that anyway, this just makes it more formal.

I don't know how much Eldar stuff this locks us out of, but we could do some under the table deals via the Clown.
 
Is Thos coordinating with anyone to coordinate the Aeldari faction?
Thos is expecting the trade talks to be conducted later so to speak, so they are currently trying to get allies for this plan. You happened to coopt their action so to speak for this, giving her the best chance possible. Currently they aren't doing anything until they know your stance, their actions change depending on how you respond here.
 
Let's talk possibilities.

First, we're the best bet to be the Necron Lightning Rod and act as the counter balancing investment area for the Xeno Help bidding war, that's just the facts.

Who is the second best Necron Lightning Rod? They don't have to actually be good, they just need to be figured out.

Do the Eldar have a similar counter Lightning Rod that isn't also us thanks to the Isha Egg?

Considering that the fact that this was a bidding war was brought up before in thread, do we have any other ideas about how to best instigate and optimize the scenario?

Right now....

I'm inclined to honestly go whole hog into the Thos Plan.

If we didn't have Nososphere Intent Conveyance going on, it would be stupid risky in terms of setting ourselves up as the sacrificial lamb for Thos is scape goat into maximum Sector benefit, and we still might get that to a degree, but having the backroom completely legit deal of this being Thos's plan and them owing us for taking this Heat, alongside an immediate "If we continue reverse engineering DAoT and other Human Tech and then sharing them" release valve being guaranteed, makes this much more palatable.

The big issue is the fact that we want to get the Aeldari involved in our Warp and Veil research, but Isha's Egg basically turns that into a whole separate balancing act that we might be able to manage, having our cake and eating it too by basically saying that we need to properly see Aeldari research on certain subjects to properly compare them to Necron Achievements, to provide a firm analysis for "just how much better Necron Stuff is" and other politically appeasing follywok.

It's not impossible is what I'm saying, though others would have to do the proper analytics on cost-benefit risk-reward sets.
 
Of course the flip side is that we have an alt source for Necron stuff, while our ability to analyze the Aeldari is limited.
There is no comparison to make between Shezu and a cryptek. Shezu has skills of around 100, the Cryptek who is not exceptional has a learning skill of 270 baseline disregarding the bonuses from his fields of study.

Edit: One thing to note is that part of this plan is to prevent a lightning rod for the Aeldari from existing. The goal of Thos is to get the entire sector to either buy nothing or only buy from the Aeldari. Thereby leaving the entire Necron budget for Shogi and by extension Thos. Thats the ideal result, a lower grade would be a select group of worlds that surround Shogi in buying from the Necrons following your lead in the purchases. A fail state would be the sector being split between major factions, the worst would be the entire sector siding with the Necrons at least as far as Thos is concerned.

In short Thos's fabricator general is aware that there is no way to convince the Necrons to spend more than they have budgeted, but are aware that the Necrons in this case are blinded by their hate/loathing for the Aeldari and as such that opens a vulnerability for exploiting their budget. Her plan in short is to convince the other 80 worlds of the sector to support either the Aeldari or to refuse a trade at all and funnel the full budget of the Necrons into one to five worlds ideally.

Edit 2: Thos' Fabricator General puts a far lower value on Aeldari support/tech due to its inherent limitations for human use. Necron technology although impossibly advanced and basically useless for dumbing down, is still useable by humans with only minor modifications. In short, the value that she sees in the Aeldari is far more limited and less impactful than having Necron technology to play with. Part of it is a bias against psy tech, if only due to most humans not having the control/power needed to run such things and also just not being something the Mechanicus commonly experiments with.
 
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