HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Holy Roman Empire. And, depending on when it existed (or where you stand), neither Holy, Roman, or an Empire.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
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i'd say lest form a HRM style confederated goverment combined with theocracy. lead by priest and the high priest type becuse we as a faction was form by the faith of the star child in my opinion
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I think a good way to kinda discourage being overwhelmed and force the dominance of something at least a bit more representative would be to have all of the nobles together get 1-2 seats, and then find one or two different criteria for seats.
Basically because we already filter seats by "category" it should be reasonably trivial if we want to make it so that, as long as everything's dominated by nobles, they'll get fewer seats because that's fewer categories of interactions.
Maybe 1 Noble, 1 Elected, 1 Military, and 1 Priestly? And some sort of local/municipal equivalent that we can fob the nobles off with?
Basically because we already filter seats by "category" it should be reasonably trivial if we want to make it so that, as long as everything's dominated by nobles, they'll get fewer seats because that's fewer categories of interactions.
Maybe 1 Noble, 1 Elected, 1 Military, and 1 Priestly? And some sort of local/municipal equivalent that we can fob the nobles off with?
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it could work in think becuse they all seems very even in power
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[] Idea: Create four seats on the main council, one for Nobles, one among Labor Captains and the populations of the cities, elected, one for the military, and one for special organizations and bodies, which will remain for the moment empty. This will be for things like Space Marines, the Psykana and Choir if they expand, or things that embody the special conditions. Also create a local-ish government, a double-council of nobles and everyone else (a bureaucrat seat, several civilian seats, a military seat, etc) and have them basically co-run the local government on matters beneath the notice of the whole polity. As above, so below. Laws are to be 'coincided' and use the rule of equality as established by the Droman Creed, and are to follow certain minimums in the rights of people such that the rights and so on on the "federal' level are the floor, rather than the ceiling. Currency is to remain separate for now, pending later decisions. Chocolate: They shall be given the beans or so on, to plant as they will (eventual Food expansions will presumably get it for them), which might slightly decrease expansion of chocolate, but growing chocolate will be on them, subject to rules and requirements for its mass distribution in exchange for the gift (as opposed to all the nobles keeping it.)
Or... something? This isn't really a full-fledged plan, but something like this might be a kludge that works well enough for now, and we can always find ways to bust feudalism later, tbh.
Maybe slap on a "This is deeply provisional" label? Maybe in time once people begin to actually integrate we might increase the Elected Seats to 2, if by that time hopefully the nobles' power has not waxed but instead waned with the presumed increased industrialization and non-noble rights and powers.
Or... something? This isn't really a full-fledged plan, but something like this might be a kludge that works well enough for now, and we can always find ways to bust feudalism later, tbh.
Maybe slap on a "This is deeply provisional" label? Maybe in time once people begin to actually integrate we might increase the Elected Seats to 2, if by that time hopefully the nobles' power has not waxed but instead waned with the presumed increased industrialization and non-noble rights and powers.
Wouldn't that just repeat the problem we had last time? With the elected seat getting overworked near to death.
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That's a point. The difficulty is that if we do two elected, the nobles will demand two, and at that point the original council's concerns will be replicated in terms of the threat of being subsumed.
Hmm, @HeroCooky , how has our bureaucratic maximum Council size changed in the wake of this?
Maybe we could take a page from the British, and have two separate houses where we can then chip away responsibilities from the nobles.
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I'm worried about the effect of having this be codified at the 'Federal' level, because our station doesn't have that, and so it'd be creating a set of powers... also to be honest the British having a noble legislative branch has honestly had all sorts of fucked up effects and has basically constantly been a problem. It's less of one now, but back in the 1800s they had to basically stage mass protests to get rights because the nobles kept on blocking them... y'know, with the body set up to allow them to do so trivially?
I'd almost rather a few nobles here and there as just another category of "authority" in the Council/Probably-eventually-a-legislature, to eventually be replaced, than giving them their own body to run.
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We need to come up with a system that will not result in all nobels rising up in revolt, moves us towards a more democratic system in the long run and works even with messages taking years to travel from the station to the worlds we rule.
First No universal currency, that works in the small scale but look at the euro region and Greece and the differences in economy between our world might be even greater.
As the galaxy is a dangerous place each world will be taxes the following way:
2.5% of its GDP will be used for building ships for the fleet
2.5% will be spend on armies
We could also add a minimal spending on healthcare and education
We could do something with a combined chamber to rule each world with the nobles getting a fix set of seats at the start linked to families that can be inherited within a family but not outside of it(so they will slowly die out), and a lesser amount of elected seat where there is one seat per 10M inhabitants of a world that would rise as their healthcare system goes from their current imperial one to ours. Adding a smaller block of seats for religious leaders is also an option.
First No universal currency, that works in the small scale but look at the euro region and Greece and the differences in economy between our world might be even greater.
As the galaxy is a dangerous place each world will be taxes the following way:
2.5% of its GDP will be used for building ships for the fleet
2.5% will be spend on armies
We could also add a minimal spending on healthcare and education
We could do something with a combined chamber to rule each world with the nobles getting a fix set of seats at the start linked to families that can be inherited within a family but not outside of it(so they will slowly die out), and a lesser amount of elected seat where there is one seat per 10M inhabitants of a world that would rise as their healthcare system goes from their current imperial one to ours. Adding a smaller block of seats for religious leaders is also an option.
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That could work for local government kinda shit, don't get me wrong, but we also need to consider the overall ruling Council and all that.
Holy Roman Empire.
This adorable little clusterfuck.
Someone posted a glossary on what the state type abbreviations means. Bonus points for there being comments on the glossary mentioning types missing in the glossary.
Also looks like imperial free cities are displayed with just their name.
Ideas for the gov reform:
Fractal Councils.
A planet can adopt the Starchild way of organization or keep its old system (with slow change to Starchild system) at the cost of reducing the planets influence in the solar system council.
The Starchild way of organization is a council of benches. (based on how we did things before this reform with a little twists)
The division into groups is turned into benches.
Unless mentioned otherwise a bench has 5 seats.
A benches seats vote among themselves to decide how the bench uses its voices in the vote.
Military has 1 voice.
Faith 2.
Choir Veto only.
Civilian 5.
Lamenters Veto only, does not have seats but a chapter representative.
The makeup of the benches of a greater council are decided by the respective benches of its constituant councils.
So for example:
The politically the solar-system is made up of planets (the space station is considered a planet for this).
That means the droma councils civilian administration bench is elected by an electorate made up of the individual seats of the benches of Station and Droma III (and Droma IV If they joined, etc) in a single transverable vote system.
If Droma III decides to stay Aristocratic they get an elector fewer in this. (Maybe another in a "longer than human lifespan" timespan?)
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Your current Council believes a size of about 20 seats will be sufficient until you hit about a sub-sector worth of systems under the Star Childs guidance.
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Hmm, in that case I'd be willing to go 2 Civilian, 2 Lordly, 1 Military (which will probably lean Lordly at first, we can bend there), and 1 Special/unique, for Dromar III. That'd put us at 15, and we can slightly rebalance things if/when we also have to integrate Dromar VII.
Or something?
Or something?
@HeroCooky a question
so whats the basis of power that props up the nobles? is it military arms, control of land, owning its industries, etc. what counts as "Power" that the nobles are refusing to give up?
i'll assume its all of the above but to what degrees of the imaginary pie does certain factors make up their power base, how much is free from their grasp and in the hand of the middle and lower classes or stuck in religious intuitions?
also were their any records on what type of world Droma lll was classified as in the imperium, like what was it specialized to produce something for its tithe?
so theirs a fear that the star children will be subsumed, so their might be a requirement to actually have power be locked up in religious intuitions so its can be accessed by the star children but not the nobility
i got nothing on the information lag
say can we have a Base currency that can be converted into other local currencies? or would it be easier to convert currency B into currency C instead of using Currency A as the Middle Man that our station uses as a way to control our planets/systems?
Legion0047
Retired Shadowrunner.
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yeah, that works.
Also, for nobility:
Their titles are mediatized but severely curtailed, specifically within the military. We can work on getting them out of the administration, but we need a competent military right now and unlike the 18th century, leisure nobles do not make for good cavalry.
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The division into Benches is explicitly not something that will work, because we have twenty seats, not forty.
I do not follow how that makes benches something explicitly not working.
Current Seats = Votes in Council = Voices for bench system.
And how many voices each bench has seems like a finetuning thing to me. (Same for bench size and exact system of deciding who gets the bench seats / which benches deviate, like Lamenters, on planet level military, on higher levels maybe military)
Has thou not learneth thy lessons taught from the Imperium, nor the Age of Apostasy?
History has shown time after that time that not separating Church and State is an awful idea and inevitably leads to corruption. Our High Priests will probably start ruling not by common sense or rationality, but by blind faith and whatever they believe the Star Child's word is.
If you want us to form "The Imperium of Man 2: Golden Boogaloo, Star Child edition, Featuring Dante from the 'Blood Angel is Crying' series" then be my guest.
I'm not saying that we should totally ignore the Faith aspect of our nation or give it little influence, but if we're going to give it nigh total control, we have to put in some checks and balances to keep the nuttier folks out of power before they start any mass sterilizations or death camps, or wanton Servitor lobotomies.
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Wait, is your proposal that you're doing the regular council system but each Councilor now has five votes??
Instead of there being a special category for lords why not rebrand it as something like "local executive powers"? Keep it vague to allow the possibility of the category losing its nobility centric power base later. It'll keep our options open at the very least even if it may annoy the nobility.
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Maybe, but at the same time we probably do want to create local executive powers that aren't nobles.
Four Local Executive Powers seats, and insist on two of them being elected non-nobles or something? We can cite the Droman Creed on this, tbh.
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"I believe that this light is produced by knowledge and understanding, by the combination of the Community and the Life, spread across the whole of the great machine, so that each may be a coequal Gear in the great design."
Therefore something something nobles and non-nobles must both be represented in the Local Executive Powers, something something.
Therefore something something nobles and non-nobles must both be represented in the Local Executive Powers, something something.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
The Nobles of Droma III derive their power from legalistic inertia (they make the laws saying they rule, so they have the power to make the laws that say they rule) and owning the industry that keeps the city-fleets of the planet sailing and maintained.
And Droma III and VII are a bog-standard Civilized Ocean and Feudal Desert World.
No.
The groupings are replaced with benches.
So a Military bench, a faith bench etc.
A Bench has a number of seats and a number of voices.
Seats are how many individuals are part of the bench that share control of the benches voice and exist mainly to better represent the factions of the represented (to avoid first past the post issues).
The voices are how much influence the bench has in the council.
So, assuming we keep the original proportions:
The Military Bench has 1 voice.
The Faith Bench has 2
The Civilian Administration Bench has 5.
etc.
Lets imagine a fictional proposal "a Toaster for every hab-kitchen" comes up.
Lets Look at the Military Bench first.
Imagine they have 1 Seat for each of Infantry, Voidvessels, Logistics.
Infantry is for the proposal, Voidvessels and Logistics are against. That means the Military benchs voice is against.
Next Faith Bench, with 5 Seats split to represent the denominations of Starchild faith (lets imagine this system has 60% reformists, 20% originalist, 20% chocolate diplomacy, leading to 3 Seats being held by reformists, and 1 each for originalists and chocolate diplomacy.).
All Faith Bench Seats agree, so the Faith Benchs 2 Voices are for the proposal.
Civilian Administration Bench, 5 Seats democratically elected using some proportionality system and the Bench has 5 Voices.
Lets skip making up Parties and just assume 4 of the seats support, 1 oppose. So the Bench adds its 5 Voices to the pro side.
A look at the Lamenters Bench (No Voices, Veto right), shows that Chaptermaster Chiron doesn't give a fuck and does not Veto.
Skipping the other Benches, we see:
1 Voice opposed (Military Bench),
7 Voices support (Faith + Civilian Administration),
No Veto.
The proposal is accepted.
The individual Benches and their Seats, Seat distribution, Voices, etc are finetuneable.
The councils are stacked and have their areas of autonomy.
So each planet has its Council (can opt out of the Starchilds way of filling its Benches to use its Aristocratic system, but that reduces the influence of its Benches when it comes to decide the makeup of the Solarsystems Benches) that decides Planetary issues.
Then there is a Solar-system Council made up of the Planetary Councils for Solar-system issues. (The Civilian Administration Bench of the Solar-system Council would have 5 seats proportionally elected by the Civilian Administration Benches of the Planets, where each Seat gets one vote)
Planet<Solar System<Sector etc.
Currently there would only be a Planetary Council of Droma III, a Planetary Council of our station, and the Droma-System Council.
But its already defined how it expands when we spread. (If there is a single planet in another solar system they'd be part of a different systems Council until the single planets system has enough settled planets/stations to justify its own System Council)