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[X] Operation Beacon of Liberty, Sword of Valor
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
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[X] Take Hives, Save Lives
Can you add something about the 15 choirs being sent in being on Leos to participate in the space battle first?
I pinged you about it earlier with my argument and got clarification from HeroCooky that it would work.
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Hmm, how safe would they be? I mean, I assume that the basic assumption is that they'll be out of the way if we don't say anything, and therefore IF we win the spacebattle they'll be all intact to go down.
I wonder if they just roll every time somebody asks. Maybe let's not test that.While we're at it, did you roll a die for the Revolution Song?
I mean, they'll each be aboard a Leo. Here's my argument from before:
So - the Choirs will be aboard the Leos, our largest, toughest, most survivable (and most expensive) ships, and they'll be protecting them against the Duchy's ace card that is the one thing on the field I can see that could potentially knock out a Leo in one shot.
My ultimate expectation here is that we lose a choir or two to save about 1-3 action's worth of SBG's casualties, and that's absolutely a trade I'll make. It might blunt our Voxx invasion very slightly, but it'll save actions in the upcoming war turns and I think that's worth it.
And here's where I got clarification that we can do that:
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
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Holy shit that close. one more number and we'd have to deal with the damn mollusk. But it comes with the territory of it.While we're at it, did you roll a die for the Revolution Song?
I highly doubt it, we got extremely lucky the first one and I don't think the X development choices for reward will be any different from the last one. meaning, holy turn is still low in choice.
Oh shit, we roll the dice on songs as well? I think it was melodies. you kinda of skipped over that for other songs.I didn't.
You never mentioned that to my knowledge and WOW, timing of that. Fortress world being turned into civilized world... we might want to push to take it before the Dutchy makes it into a fortress world once more. At the very least taking it will allow us to have a basis for a strongpoint to hold.
Yah I advocate pushing the fleet on until that point.
You know what? fair, it does go like that a lot and knowing our luck it would last only that long before you wipe it again once we take it..... but it also helps so much with planning.
Edit: [X] Take Hives, Save Lives
Warp travel doesn't make sense to me. Taking Eshich became much less important in my opinion but taking the potential Fortress World away from Van Zandt might save a big headache in the future.
Could you expand on this please? I guess we have to defend from two directions but can threaten two systems?
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@The Laurent
We have 32 SAG by my count and 31 War-Pack = 63 needed lift capacity. That should leave 5 SAGs to come in the second wave.
[Narrative] Arm the Enslaved - (Yes/No) - (If Yes, when?)
The plan doesn't seem to say when.
[X] Operation Beacon of Liberty, Sword of Valor
We have 32 SAG by my count and 31 War-Pack = 63 needed lift capacity. That should leave 5 SAGs to come in the second wave.
[Narrative] Arm the Enslaved - (Yes/No) - (If Yes, when?)
The plan doesn't seem to say when.
[X] Operation Beacon of Liberty, Sword of Valor
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[X] Operation Beacon of Liberty, Sword of Valor
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Strategically, owning the system that has the only stable Warp Route into your space that you know of from their end is valuable, as you know when and where they will come from.
Tactically, it is a bitch to defend as star systems are huge. At least seven Denny's parking lots combined huge. And if one fleet enters from the east, another from the west, and you only have enough ships to stop one side without getting potentially obliterated...one fleet is going to slip through.
Basically, the disadvantage for us is that when they do try attacking us they can come in at two different point in the system so when the fighting starts our forces will have to defend from two directions.
The advantage is that it fucks up the Duchy defensive wise since if they want to defend, they'll need to commit double the resources towards defending from both sides. So while it will be annoying for us to defend for the above mentioned reasons, it will be a bigger pain in the ass for the Duchy if we can plop down 2-3 SBGs at least then spend a couple actions building up defenses then we should be golden. We just need to survive the Free Duchy bashing their heads against us.
I would still say its worth it, going to need more SBG's built and assigned there but worth it if only to deny that fortress world returning to that state and blocking off any advance from the Dutchy back into the our Sector.
Taking Echish is probably going to depend on the state of our fleet after the void battle over Voxx. I think the ultimate correct order to give is "Take Voxx Primus & Voxx Secundus, take Echish if the fleet is still capable of it after that."
Not only does it put us in a strategically superior position, it also allows us to give up ground if necessary, to defend in depth. If they warp 2 big fleets into Echish then we can retreat to Voxx Secundus and defend there. So it's only slightly tactically worse, especially because coordinating warp transits from two different systems would be a nightmare for the van Zandt admirals.
Not only does it put us in a strategically superior position, it also allows us to give up ground if necessary, to defend in depth. If they warp 2 big fleets into Echish then we can retreat to Voxx Secundus and defend there. So it's only slightly tactically worse, especially because coordinating warp transits from two different systems would be a nightmare for the van Zandt admirals.
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Hmm @HeroCooky. So when I look at unstable warp routes I see that a lot of them in Breskal intersect. It's a meme question but could one take a unstable warp route and then hop onto one of those intersections to another warp route?
Ah so Secundus gives the same advantage as Eshich then.
Yeah this follows how battles on continents and oceans work. But this is space and scale is different.
This is where Warp travel makes no sense to me. So the system has a Mandeville point away from the center, that gives a radius that creates a sphere that ships must enter/exit Warp outside of.
They are traveling light-years(~9.6 trillion km), it should be trivial to shift the exit point millions to billions of light-years and exit at any spot on the sphere. Or if it has to be a linear point to point path and can't go around corners, that's still half the sphere they can access.
So 2 fleets from one origin should be able to arrive on opposite sides of the destination system as easily as from two systems.
Or even within the Mandeville space, the area around a world that needs to be defended is relatively tiny and the interplanetary distances so large (still days to travel for fastest ships in WH), it should be trivial to split a fleet and attack in a pincer movement or circle around a defensive point if that is an advantage. There's also vertical movement so high/low pincer.
It doesn't seem like it should matter if multiple fleets are sent from one system or two.
Its like if you're standing on Earth looking at the full moon planning where to send a fleet. The distance to get there is so large its almost no difference if you plan to get to the center or north/south/east/west edges of what you see. Solar system scale is much larger.
Do they have to exit the Warp aligned with the closest point on the sphere to the system they are traveling from or something? They can still split and position fleets days away from retaliation.
Ultimately it doesn't matter, this is just rambling. Warhammer is a fantasy game, tactics roughly follow the age of sail, and the rules are what you want them to be, overcomplicating mechanics would get tedious.
Yeah thats what I was thinking too. Depends on how big the defensive tactical disadvantage is but Eshich is probably still worth taking, just not essential as I previously assumed.
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If we figure out a "safely traverse unstable warp routes" song, it would also allow us to attack Xoot.
Meaning either
- They know we can attack Xoot through an unstable warproute from Eshich.
- Means they have to reinforce 3 systems to be able to withstand all the mobile forces we have stationed in Eshich.
- They don't know we can attack Xoot through an unstable warproute from Eshich.
- Surprise! Now they have a spontaneous choice:
- Withdraw troops from elsewhere to reinforce Xoot.
- Can they without opening a weakness to us or one of the other threats?
- Let our SGB do its thing in their unprotected hinterland. (Don't try to take planets, just break any visible void infra)
- Bad for production and cohesion.
- Having to make that decision quickly could help them make mistakes for us to exploit.
- Withdraw troops from elsewhere to reinforce Xoot.
- Surprise! Now they have a spontaneous choice:
After losing their Hive world and its production.
Plus the whole "give us spare space to fall back if we need to" Neablis mentioned.
Guys the QM has repeatability told us we can use unstable warp routes, provided we have a choir. Provide is that the SBG will not come without damage or in formation. its an approach you need to accept will have some damage. a fleet or ship with NO choirs cannot use it and we had the option to make Unstable warp routes stable or at least able to be used by civilian ships or non-choir ships to travel Unstable Warp Routes.
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Hmm...question. Can we, using songs, turn people into psykers? I am only asking because of intellectual curiosity for now.
Anyways folks, once the Voxx campaign is over, anyone up for making the Yeeni a new exploration light cruiser to upgrade/replace the now aging and thoroughly outdated explorer they have been running around with? Given what they've been bringing in... I think it'll be worth it since they clearly have nine lives as explorers lol.
Yeah to me it sounded too risky to use them unless we're desperate. Maybe we can get some tech eventually.
The Warp Beacon trait was a Development milestone plus actions so I'm suspicious a Song by itself won't unlocked it, maybe there's something in the Psytech tree or the upgraded Travel Song. Slight risk of Van Zandt using them with psytech, they have recreated something like Navigators after all.