What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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I did Math below. Tl;dr:
We need to capture the agriworld freighters or else spend ~25 actions building food transports. But we only need about 2-3 actions worth of passenger freighters to evacuate Voxx over 2-3 turns. If we capture the agriworld freighters & the special design action turns into a special build action then we'll need about 5-6 actions worth of freighter building.


[] [Light Freighter] Auriga-class Emergency Response Freighter
It's like a big, grown up version of the Cassiopeia! But you know, actually properly sized and stuff. Let's make a dozen. They should help us avoid an infrastructure hit every time we need to integrate a planet. Literally spending one normal on them will get us ~18, and that should really help buffer stuff out.

There's also the question of making separate passenger and cargo ships or just a single design that's both, so it carries food in and people out. The problem is that food production isn't always at the same place that people can be dropped off at. So we'd be stuck doing an awkward triangle-like route that would leave both holds empty. Not to mention that it wouldn't let us balance if we needed more food transport or people transport later - we'd be stuck building both capacities just to get more of the one we needed. With that being said, let's run some numbers.

I'm going to say we can jam 4 Titanic Passenger/Cargo Holds into a single heavy freighter. Not sure what compromises need to be made for that, but they should be. In that case, the cargo freighters can feed 4 billion for a month per trip, while the passenger freighters can move 400 million per trip. Let's assume we make some rustbuckets to keep these things moving quickly, so that each round-trip takes ~2 weeks? I don't know if that's reasonable (@HeroCooky ?), but it gives us order-of-magnitude estimates. I'm going to ignore the agriworlds for now and then factor them back in at the end.

With those assumptions, each cargo freighter can feed ~8 billion. We probably want to aim for feeding about 400 billion total, since not only will the war kill a lot of them but we won't be responsible for feeding people while they're fighting us. That means we need 50 cargo freighters, which is.... 1250 build points, or approximately 25 actions worth of building. Hmm. Well shoot. Looks like we need to really prioritize taking those three agriworld freighters intact. Let's make a stealth boarding vessel and do a write-in action to make sure that happens. They can apparently feed the entire planet on their own, so it's just a no-brainer on how how much more efficient capturing them is as opposed to building our own ships. We should still build a smaller number of cargo vessels, but maybe only 8? That's 4ish actions? Less if the special action lets us build freighters more efficiently, maybe 3 per action instead of 2 - then 3 actions would probably cover it the food transport needs.

As for passenger vessels, if we built 10 of them then we'd be moving 4 billion people every ~2 weeks. Roughly 40 billion every year. 400 billion in one turn. That number is probably off by a factor of 2 (likely we'd 'only' move 200 billion in a turn.)

Which is all to say that we need a lot fewer passenger haulers than we need cargo haulers. We could probably get away with 6 passenger haulers and still be able to depopulate Voxx over 2-3 turns, though we'd need to keep everybody waiting on the Hive fed for that time. That's 3 actions worth of normal build actions, 2 actions if the special action develops to build 3 freighters per turn.
 
The counterpoint I'd make is that it's a lot easier to embark and disembark food than disembark passengers.

Food you can stack and keep ready in containers, passengers have to be kept dispersed until you're ready to start loading, and then individually housed.
 
Here's my final draft.

[] [Light Freighter] Auriga-class Emergency Response Freighter
-[] Length
- 7.000 Meters
-[] Width - 1.400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 2 Gravities (-2 DP)
-[] Armor - Thin Single Hull (+1 DP)
-[] Shields - Singular Emitter (+1 DP)
-[] Weapons - Unarmed (Requires escort!)
-[] Equipment - Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Chapels to the Five/Medical Deployment Division/Orders of the Guiding Hands/Large Mobile Civilian Manufactory/Propaganda Center (-25 DP)

[] [Heavy Freighter] Canis-major Class Bulk Transport Liner
-[] Length
- 11.000 Meters (-1 DP)
-[] Width - 3.500 Meters (-1 DP)
-[] Acceleration - 1 Gravities (-4 DP)
-[] Armor - Thick Single Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters
-[] Weapons - Unarmed
-[] Equipment - 3x Improved Internal Security Systems/Chapels to the Five/2x Titanic Civilian Transportation Hold (-39 DP)

[] [Heavy Freighter] Canis-minor Class Bulk Transport Hauler
-[] Length
- 10.000 Meters
-[] Width - 3.000 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 1 Gravities (-4 DP)
-[] Armor - Thick Single Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters
-[] Weapons - Unarmed
-[] Equipment - Ship Shrines/Internal Security Systems/1x Large Emergency Relief Cargo Hold/2x Titanic Emergency Relief Cargo Hold (-41 DP)

So, Canis-Major and Canis-minor. They're both maxed out speed, both with 2x Titanic Holds, the major focus is that "One needs to have space for people to live in and they might not want to be there", and the other is "I just need to move a shitton of goods really far", and they both go as fast as we can possibly make them to reduce how long a single trip is. The Warp Jump might only take a week, but it's still got to burn into the system, and then load and unload. Being able to maintain 1 gravity for our Heavy Freighters will minimize how long they spend in transit (And I'm hoping Superior Engine Calculations ekes a bit more speed out, but that's mostly just because I'm not taking any chances.)

Canis Major spends 3 DP on internal security, as well as Chapels for one part deprogramming and one part helping the crew handle the humanitarian disaster that will be involved whenever the Two Hounds are committed to a task. The Canis-minor is smaller simply because you don't need as much space for pure goods, but a single trip from a single Canis-minor can supply three billion people for... The better part of a month, which if we can get the logistics network short enough, we can probably mitigate the losses dramatically.

Internal Security + Improved Internal Security, do they stack or no @HeroCooky ? In addition, would this be the better choice for our purposes given how we're not exactly expecting to repulse Space Marines or other superheroes, but more riot control?

EDIT: Oh yeah, furthermore, would Superior Gravimetric actually improve their transit and turnaround times or should I dump that for something else?
 
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Internal Security + Improved Internal Security, do they stack or no @HeroCooky ? In addition, would this be the better choice for our purposes given how we're not exactly expecting to repulse Space Marines or other superheroes, but more riot control?

They'd have to, given that we were told to triple or quadruple down.

That is for you and the thread to decide. I am only going to say that you should triple or quadruple internal security systems for the pop shifter ships.
 
My version of an Heavy Freighter capable of Shifting Large Populations.

[] [Heavy Freighter] Class Name
-[] Length - 12.000 Meters (-2DP)
-[] Width - 3.500 Meters (-1DP)
-[] Acceleration - 0.4 Gravities (-1DP)
-[] Armor - Thick Single Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters
-[] Weapons - None
-[] Equipment
--[] Titanic Civilian Transportation Hold 2x (-30DP)
--[] Augmetic Security Department 2x (-3DP)
--[] Chapels to the Five (-3DP)
--[] Small Troop Compartment (-2DP)

Its smaller and slower than an Canis-Major but has better on board security
 
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Let's assume we make some rustbuckets to keep these things moving quickly, so that each round-trip takes ~2 weeks? I don't know if that's reasonable (@HeroCooky ?)
Double that number and you'll be golden. Triple it if things get difficult in the loading/unloading process.
Internal Security + Improved Internal Security, do they stack or no @HeroCooky ? In addition, would this be the better choice for our purposes given how we're not exactly expecting to repulse Space Marines or other superheroes, but more riot control?
They stack, and you can -->DOUBLE OR TRIPLE DOWN ON THEM<--. Given that you will be transporting millions of people in one go, I would err on the side of caution. Heavily armed caution.
I think the real question you should ask is if those two put together are better than the Augmetic Security Wing
No, Augmetic Security is even better than those two.
 
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Double that number and you'll be golden. Triple it if things get difficult in the loading/unloading process.
They stack, and you can -->DOUBLE OR TRIPLE DOWN ON THEM<--. Given that you will be transporting millions of people in one go, I would err on the side of caution. Heavily armed caution.

Got it, I wanted to make sure.

Under the circumstances, Basic but stacked many times is the way to go, since we're not exactly expecting to have to shoot down Space Marines here, right? Just riot control? We want pure volume of crowd control as opposed to "Can expect to challenge a Space Marine and Win?"

Also, had another question on if Superior Gravimetrics improves their turnaround time at all, or if it's not necessary. I do know that if we can get them to 1g acceleration, they can probably very rapidly get to the mandeville points, (going faster by 847 kilomters per second per day is basically being able to reach the moon in six hours from your first day of acceleration, and it only gets crazier from there).
 
They stack, and you can -->DOUBLE OR TRIPLE DOWN ON THEM<--. Given that you will be transporting millions of people in one go, I would err on the side of caution. Heavily armed caution.
Time to put 5DP on internal bulkheads, a small teleporter and just don't connect the bridge to the holds physically.

Under the circumstances, Basic but stacked many times is the way to go, since we're not exactly expecting to have to shoot down Space Marines here, right? Just riot control?
If 1 in 100 000 people is weak to chaotic possession, that's 2000 daemons emerging on your design.

(Also, it's the aftermath of a civil war, there's good odds that we will not be able to prevent heavy weaponry from being smuggled into the ship).
 
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Time to put 5DP on internal bulkheads, a small teleporter and just don't connect the bridge to the holds physically.


If 1 in 100 000 people is weak to chaotic possession, that's 2000 daemons emerging on your design.

The Gellar Field is really supposed to handle that, rassinfrassin.

Because we physically can't afford to put enough security on to address a cascading Daemon Problem. Since that means every Daemon that headbursts through someone is going to start summoning more daemons and it's so target rich that the instant more than one happens the whole ship dies no matter how much security is involved.
 
Under the circumstances, Basic but stacked many times is the way to go, since we're not exactly expecting to have to shoot down Space Marines here, right? Just riot control?
Still, the Augmetic Security Wing is said to be better than some the other two put together so I think we should include that. Also, even if we aren't expecting Space Marines, you never know when a ship will get attacked by Chaos Pirates, Drukhari Corsairs, or Ork Freebootaz, so best to have some up-jumped cyborgs to fuck their shit up in the worst case scenario.
 
Still, the Augmetic Security Wing is said to be better than some the other two put together so I think we should include that. Also, even if we aren't expecting Space Marines, you never know when a ship will get attacked by Chaos Pirates, Drukhari Corsairs, or Ork Freebootaz, so best to have some up-jumped cyborgs to fuck their shit up in the worst case scenario.

It's a matter of Sheer Manpower. they might be able to put down an individual issue, but I don't think they're physically able to project enough power if five or six holds suddenly decide as a unit to riot.
Is there a reason your Auriga-class Emergency Response Freighter has no Emergency Relief Cargo Holds?

Because it's not meant to go back and forth, it's meant to sail into orbit and do damage control with local resources, so it has a manufactory built in.
 
It's a matter of Sheer Manpower. they might be able to put down an individual issue, but I don't think they're physically able to project enough power if five or six holds suddenly decide as a unit to riot.
But again, @HeroCooky said that it's better than the other two options put together, and I doubt stacking Internal Security 3x will be able to match it since the rule of thumb so far has been that the more DP it costs, the better it is, especially in comparison to to similar equipment that's cheaper.
 
For manpower a Troop Compartment might be helpful depending on HeroCookys answer.

Completely different design intent. Troop Compartments are there to get military forces from point A to point B, Internal Security is actively controlling Problems On Board.

But again, @HeroCooky said that it's better than the other two options put together, and I doubt stacking Internal Security 3x will be able to match it since the rule of thumb so far has been that the more DP it costs, the better it is, especially in comparison to to similar equipment that's cheaper.

Then Cooky needs to clarify what the actual difference here is because this is Something We Need to Know and Should Know.
 
Completely different design intent. Troop Compartments are there to get military forces from point A to point B, Internal Security is actively controlling Problems On Board.
If you fill them with infantry you have entire SAG for patrols and breaking up riots and the prompt also says they need to enforce order after offloading the population.
 
If you fill them with infantry you have entire SAG for patrols and breaking up riots and the prompt also says they need to enforce order after offloading the population.

And you're having them walk in open corridors to do it, that's the point. Internal Security is about making the internal landscape fundamentally hostile to people trying to start shit on board. Dudes with guns and riot suppression tools are just one part of it, the other part are checkpoints, bunkers, training, autoturrets, the works. Troop Compartments don't give you any of that, just pure manpower intended to fight straight up wars.
 
And you're having them walk in open corridors to do it, that's the point. Internal Security is about making the internal landscape fundamentally hostile to people trying to start shit on board. Dudes with guns and riot suppression tools are just one part of it, the other part are checkpoints, bunkers, training, autoturrets, the works. Troop Compartments don't give you any of that, just pure manpower intended to fight straight up wars.
I also have two Tier 3 versions of Internal Security in my design.

That would be the job of any Troops coming in on accompanying Tauruses and local PDFs
If we have the Andromedas and Tauruses for that.
 
I also have two Tier 3 versions of Internal Security in my design.


If we have the Andromedas and Tauruses for that.

How the fuck do you afford that without making the ship a complete atrocity?

EDIT: Oh, by making a single ship take Twice as long to make a round trip. That's how. And then wastes points by making it a troop transport instead of committing to the bit instead based on wishful thinking about "Well ground troops are obviously better than any trained internal security that aren't augments so let's stick a bunch of them on board"

It might be viable, except we're in a position where transit time matters. If the ship can maintain 1G of acceleration perpetually, it can make twice as many trips--on average--as the one that can only muster 0.4gs, that's a big deal given how our timeframe works here. Five of my Canis Majors can ship a billion people in about a month, not counting loading and unloading times, yours would need twice as long--or more--to do the same without actually being cheaper.
 
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