Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)

What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?

  • Mercy (Diplomacy and Expansion)

    Votes: 211 74.8%

  • Ruthlessness (Kick the Duchy in the Balls)

    Votes: 66 23.4%

  • Thule (Yeeni Handholding and Piscarian Cuddling)

    Votes: 108 38.3%
  • Total voters
    282
Voting is open
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Alectai said:
What does that even do anyway? It's a 10 DP thing so it's obviously strong, but Cooky already said "The most stealth gives you is a Surprise Attack modifier in the first round", which I don't see as changing.
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Well, speaking logically since we're going with a Torpedo [If it hits the enemy's fucked even if they're much bigger, but it almost never hits] build the point would be to hit something much bigger than us with an absurd stealth attack from nowhere and then fuck off with the speed and let the rest of the ships fight, or re-establish Stealth as if we're a damn Rogue taking the Hide Action later in the fight to do it again at some later point until we fail a check and get seen.

But that's all it has to be? It's a Destroyer, we can make a dozen of the things with a single action.
 
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Alectai said:
Hmm, it actually could, but stealth in space is kind of hard, and I don't think we have the payloads we need for them to be absolutely decisive in the opening strike. Not with the cap on how many dudes we can field in a single group.
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We have stealth equipment, While packing the 10 DP stealth is overkill as a refit, The 6 Point Zero emmisions eats 6 of its 11 free points. That gives it 5 points to fit Medium minelayers, more torps, or a Medium boarding hangar. Long term use leaves can damage it, But that choice of armaments' from a stealth ambush Makes it an outsized defensive ship, and a wolfpack could be made cheap and would make for on hell of a sucker punch.
 
The Laurent said:
Well, speaking logically since we're going with a Torpedo build the point would be to hit something much bigger than us with an absurd stealth attack from nowhere and then fuck off with the speed and let the rest of the ships fight/re-establish Stealth as if we're a damn Rogue taking the Hide Action later in the fight to do it again.
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Mmm, true enough.

The question is basically "How many of these do we need to reliably delete an enemy ship in their opening Ambush"

After all, this definitely isn't going to be on the level of Eldar Stealth, and even that doesn't let them Just Win space battles. And we don't have shit like their Pulsar Lances that let them go "Hello I just attacked you five times with a lance weapon that does shittons of damage before you know I'm there and now you're dead, byeeeee"
 
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frostgiant said:
We have stealth equipment, While packing the 10 DP stealth is overkill as a refit, The 6 Point Zero emmisions eats 6 of its 11 free points. That gives it 5 points to fit Medium minelayers, more torps, or a Medium boarding hangar. Long term use leaves can damage it, But that choice of armaments' from a stealth ambush Makes it an outsized defensive ship, and a wolfpack could be made cheap and would make for on hell of a sucker punch.
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I dunno if the 10 DP version would really be that much of an overkill, tbh? Also what do you mean 11 free points, I did the math and it has 13. Spend one on Speed, one on Super Stealth, and then two on whatever we want.
 
Alectai said:
After all, this definitely isn't going to be on the level of Eldar Stealth, and even that doesn't let them Just Win space battles. And we don't have shit like their Pulsar Lances that let them go "Hello I just attacked you five times with a lance weapon that does shittons of damage before you know I'm there and now you're dead, byeeeee"
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Also, like, duh? But again, these are fucking Destroyers, we can make a dozen of them with a single action. From what little we know about Torpedos, the 4x80s, already far from unimpressive, could absolutely fuck up, say, Light Cruisers hit by it. If it costs us making two of these fuckers to take down one enemy Light Cruiser it would STILL be an amazingly favorable trade.
 
The Laurent said:
I dunno if the 10 DP version would really be that much of an overkill, tbh? Also what do you mean 11 free points, I did the math and it has 13. Spend one on Speed, one on Super Stealth, and then two on whatever we want.
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maybe I did the math wrong? The lupus has +1 from its size +1 from its width, +1 from its single hull, Destroyers have DP 16 base, Lupus add 3 so 19. -4 for its weaponry, -4 for its equipment. nope its got 11 points to play with as a destroyer
 
The Laurent said:
Also, like, duh? But again, these are fucking Destroyers, we can make a dozen of them with a single action. From what little we know about Torpedos, the 4x80s, already far from unimpressive, could absolutely fuck up, say, Light Cruisers hit by it. If it costs us making two of these fuckers to take down one enemy Light Cruiser it would STILL be an amazingly favorable trade.
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True enough!

I'll think about it. The real issue here is the head-count limit on our mobile forces. It's a good ship! Absolutely! I'm just not certain it's "Replaces its equal hull size of other ships" level just yet.
 
The Laurent said:
So, if we wanted we could get both an updated Frigate or Destroyer and a Light Cruiser. So that's nice.
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Yeah, we could get an updated Taurus AND the Scorpio all in one go now which is great. This new system really helps out a lot and is much more efficient.

Alectai said:
[ ] Plan: Please don't send more Rak'Gols they're scary
-[] [General] Research:
--[] Menace Alpha Ship Studies
-[] [General] Fortify The Webway Gate In End Of Line
-[] [Faith] Of The Revolution And The Rising

Dig in, make this place unassailable to unwanted guests, figure out What The Fuck just tried to kill us and How the Fuck do we counter them later, and get the very last [Faith] Doctrine pick locked down the turn before 555 drops. That's worth gambling on IMO, given how important 5 is and having it finished before mid-turn 555.
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I would argue for colonizing planets, but you do have a good point there with turn year 555 approaching where SOMETHING is going to happen. So might as well get most of our faith stuff out of the way.
Alectai said:
Super Lupus would have a hell of a niche if we were to take that "Beacon Network" perk at the next Civ Inf milestone though as a Regional Defense force. When you can shit out 20-30 destroyers a turn with torpedoes and lots of dakka, operating at 8 gravities with maneuverability boosts, well, that's a very scary swarm to supplement our mobile forces on the defensive.
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Yeah, especially with the 10 DP stealth tech which could allow us to do who knows what with such a surprise attack.
The Laurent said:
One of our fleets is at 17/20, and making a new Andromeda won't be all that hard?
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yeah, the issue of Choirs is something that will decline as we get bigger and have access to a greater pool of psykers and with Andromedas not being that hard to make, they shouldn't be too much of a drain on resources.
 
I think we're thinking about stealth wrong here.

It's not meant to be part of big-fleet-battle tactics. It'll help in the alpha strike, but that many DP of armor and weapons would help more.

But stealth fits in a different doctrinal category. Hit & run, harassment. More U-boat or hunter sub than surface destroyer.

Say we outfit the Andromedas with stealth, then the Lupus's with stealth, torps and mines and then make a stealth fleet that does deep strikes into enemy territory to blow up shipyards and supply ships. It would also excel in a defensive role for ambushes on familiar ground. Would make it a lot harder for people to sit around waging a planetary war when their void ships can get ganked from stealth at every opportunity.

Only thing is we might need to outfit them with some enhanced supply generation for those kinds of missions. Hmm.
 
Neablis said:
Only thing is we might need to outfit them with some enhanced supply generation for those kinds of missions. Hmm.
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... It's doable though.

Something to add to my consideration.

BigBadBob7070 said:
Yeah, we could get an updated Taurus AND the Scorpio all in one go now which is great. This new system really helps out a lot and is much more efficient.
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Have you had a chance to check out my most recent iteration on the Scorpio design yet? I'm pretty happy where it is right now.
 
Neablis said:
I think we're thinking about stealth wrong here.

It's not meant to be part of big-fleet-battle tactics. It'll help in the alpha strike, but that many DP of armor and weapons would help more.

But stealth fits in a different doctrinal category. Hit & run, harassment. More U-boat or hunter sub than surface destroyer.

Say we outfit the Andromedas with stealth, then the Lupus's with stealth, torps and mines and then make a stealth fleet that does deep strikes into enemy territory to blow up shipyards and supply ships. It would also excel in a defensive role for ambushes on familiar ground. Would make it a lot harder for people to sit around waging a planetary war when their void ships can get ganked from stealth at every opportunity.

Only thing is we might need to outfit them with some enhanced supply generation for those kinds of missions. Hmm.
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I think stealth is also an amazing tool for defense, The ability to either headcap larger ships before they can come to grips with the primary defense fleet, Maul Outrider Ships who are spreading out during the maneuvering war or even come in from a strange angle once everyone commits to their attacks runs and put torpedo's into the flank of a important ship, Stealth ships are horrifying to attack into, and even a small wolf pack of 4-5 Stealth torpedo boats on defense makes it so much harder to actually take a system without being mauled to hell and back.

Since destroyers are so cheap, Its not even that much of an investment, for how much they can provide during a defense, and they will probably pay their own value back many time over if a chockpoint system suffers an attack.

EDIT: Makes me almost want to try making a stealth Hymm ship with all of sustaining equipment we have and have that wolfpack go cause chaos in someones backline.
 
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Alectai said:
Funny thing is, if this is a Dark Space Elf faction doing a Funni to try and bait an isolated batch of their cousins into a killbox...
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I am hoping the Dark Elder fuck around and find out with us.

Down right begging it to happen so we can get a look at the loot and most importantly their Mimic engine technology. The ability to mask a ships signature as something else would be insanely useful for our scouts and any potential Q-ship we would build.
 
[] [Heavy Cruiser] Tortuga (+4 from hull, 28 base, 32 points)
-[] Length - 4.600 (+1)
-[] Width - 600 (+1)
-[] Acceleration - 2
-[] Armor - Medium Tripple Hull (+1)
-[] Shields - Two Matrixes (+1)
-[] Weapons - 1x Heavy Hangars (-3) (Boarding,)
-[] Equipment - Hymm, Ghost (-20) Tiny repair bay, Enhanced supply generation, Tiny onboard manufactorum (-6)

hmmmm, Nah, This is a boondoggle still. A stealth Hymm ship is still to expensive for backline raiding without making to many tradeoffs to be viable I think, Even though the Idea of having a stealth Heavy cruiser and a Bunch of Stealth wolfpacks running around stealing all of the enemy;s trade ships and troop transports sounds fun. Probably save the idea for later though.
 
HeroCooky said:
"..." The Eldar calmly twitched.

"You okay there?" Admiral Aspadillia van Herrata asked.

"We'll shut it off. Keep. Your. Hands. Off. The. Gate." The Eldar calmly offered.
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There! Right there is a moment when Eldars decided to pay attention to the federation beyond the movement of troops because hearing human show public concern about Xeno is a sign that something weird is happening.
 
Alectai said:
... It's doable though.

Something to add to my consideration.



Have you had a chance to check out my most recent iteration on the Scorpio design yet? I'm pretty happy where it is right now.
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I did. And I will admit it does look pretty nice. Though I would have liked an armored prow and a turret for the approach.

But overall I do think it's good and an excellent Vanguard cruiser for a pair of Crux.
 
Man, I'm stuck at work for another 4 hous and I'm gonna miss all of the cool ship talk.

All I can do is once again plug for my ship designs (currently not up to date).

[] Sagittarius-Secundus Class Lance Frigate
-[] 1.700 Meters
-[] Width - 400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 6.5 Gravities
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters
-[] Weapons - 1x Light Prow Lance/2x Medium Lance Turrets (-9)
-[] Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Lattice Hulls/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lense Cogitation Matrix Lattice/Hardened Prow (-10)
---
[] Polaris Light Lance Cruiser
-[] Length - 3.600 Meters
-[] Width - 400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 4 Gravities
-[] Armor - Thin Double Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters (+1)
-[] Weapons - 1x Medium Bomber Hanger/1x Medium Prow Lance/2x Large Lance Batteries (-13)
-[] Equipment - Lense Cogitation Matrix Lattice/Strict Pilot Training/Veteran Pilot Gene-Lines/Lattice Hulls/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Armored Lifepods/Hardened Prow (-12)
---
[] Orion Class Heavy Lance Cruiser
-[] Length - 4.600 Meters
-[] Width - 600 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 2.5 Gravities (-1)
-[] Armor - Medium Tripple Hull
-[] Shields - Three Matrixes
-[] Weapons - 1x Medium Bomber Hanger/ 1x Heavy Prow Lance/ 2x Super-Large Lance Turrets (-16)
-[] Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Strict Pilot Training/Veteran Pilot Gene-Lines/Lattice Hulls/Harsh Crew Training/Lense Cogitation Matrix Lattice (-11)
---
Again, none of these are up to date, but I won't be able to do that for another 4 hours. :cry: Please bear with me on that.
 
You know, I only just now realized that our psykana songs are all utility. Amazing, necessary utility, but still utility. We don't have any combat/growth songs.

I thought that the times our choirs blew up ships (like the Delder cruiser that was massacring us) was a song, but that was just a melody.

Let's sing some more damn songs for growth, technology and combat. I don't want to have to use the combat one, but we could likely make something that could turn the tide of a battle. Like fire/sun/song. Or protection/health/sun or something.
 
Completely separately from ongoing discussion:

@HeroCooky does Jolly Economic Co-operation allows us to use two different [Develop] actions with one Action, like Civilian Industry and Medical Services? If yes, does developing Mental Health Industry count as a [Develop] action?
 
Neablis said:
You know, I only just now realized that our psykana songs are all utility. Amazing, necessary utility, but still utility. We don't have any combat/growth songs.

I thought that the times our choirs blew up ships (like the Delder cruiser that was massacring us) was a song, but that was just a melody.

Let's sing some more damn songs for growth, technology and combat. I don't want to have to use the combat one, but we could likely make something that could turn the tide of a battle. Like fire/sun/song. Or protection/health/sun or something.
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We await a moment to drop the beat and play the boss music (we are the boss)
 
Kpatrol88 said:
[] Sagittarius-Secundus Class Lance Frigate
-[] 1.700 Meters
-[] Width - 400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 6.5 Gravities
-[] Armor - Single Hull
-[] Shields - Three Emitters
-[] Weapons - 1x Light Prow Lance/2x Medium Lance Turrets (-9)
-[] Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Lattice Hulls/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lense Cogitation Matrix Lattice/Hardened Prow (-10)
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I will say that I think for the weapons we should do 2 light prow lances and 1 medium lance turret able to deal with anything that tries to jump it. Let me give my own view on this with the updated stuff.

[] Sagittarius-Secundus Class Lance Frigate
-[] 1.700 Meters (+2 DP)
-[] Width - 500 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 7 Gravities
-[] Armor - Thick Single Hull
-[] Shields - One Array
-[] Weapons - 2x Light Prow Lances/1x Medium Lance Turret (-9)
-[] Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Lattice Hulls/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lense Cogitation Matrix Lattice/Armored Prow/Refractive Hull Coating/Ship Shrines (-12)
 
Thinking about how we might want to do a jolly economic next turn even if we're not ready for the full infrastructure turn cause we'll want to make sure the families are happy with us while we prepare to give them our full force
 
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