Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)

[Neablis]

4.

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Nuts. Well, definitely need to upgrade the song then. Well, that means we'll be building the updated ships instead of the old ones.

Yeah, that'll work, thanks for the catch.

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Another note - New Dawn has been focusing the new Knight research hard. If we throw 2 research actions at it then it'll finish next turn. Having new knights seems great for both KNIGHTS and also taking over the Black Ash.

Alternatively frigate automatic production? Or we could go full quality-of-life & industry focus:
-[] Minaturized Irrita Translation Algorithm
-[] Abhuman Medical Advances
-[] Safely Harmonized Cogitation Equilibrium
-[] Industry Automata

@HeroCooky A few questions about research!
1. Will Minaturized Irrita Translation Algorithm improve relations with the Shipwright's Grove?
2. What are Void Automata? Are those full ships, or just reduce crewing requirements for our ships? Will that make ships cheaper?
3. Does Civilian Automata do anything other than just an across-the-board QoL increase?
4. Is there a way we can make Autonomous Automata !!!WARNING!!! more safe? I.e. spend multiple research actions on it to improve safeguards, come up with a song that awakens the automata to benevolence? Something like Machinery Song Family Hope Humanity - The Rythmn Of Mankind Within The Cogs
5. How big are Super-Heavy Automata? Are we talking heavy infantry, tanks or titans here?

 

[10ebbor10]

The problem is.. What's the point? What does a Scout Frigate do that we can't do with a Destroyer Scout?

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If we go from a destroyer to a light cruiser, we can fit the following.

Micro-Warp Jump Engine - Though not able to instantly Warp a ship from one place to another, even the thirty seconds it takes to warm up the Warp Engine and Gellar Field for a Micro Jump offer titanic tactical advantages if used correctly.

Small Hangars (Support) - Hosting a squadron (12) of bombers and fighters or a duet of two Support Craft to extend Strike Craft operations, these hangars allow harassing actions of ships or bombing runs to be carried out. However, the mission expectancy of the pilots is usually in the lower double digits if not extensively supported. Can only be installed as a battery.

This essentially, would dramatically magnify the ability of the ship to scout any given system.
Jump in on the edge, get the Orrery to tell you the layout of a system, then microjump to any individual planet that looks interesting, dropping the support ships from the hangar if you want to do a Star Trek away mission.

 

[Alectai]

... Microjumps aren't that good, it's very harsh on the ship, and not something you should use reliably.

 

[10ebbor10]

2. What are Void Automata? Are those full ships, or just reduce crewing requirements for our ships? Will that make ships cheaper?

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IIRC, they're loyal wingmen esque support fighters.

 

[Profilozof]

Maybe we should move knight ladies positive relationship to the Grove for quicker annexation groundwork

 

[One Autumn Leaf]

Why did the warp have to fritz this turn lol? We were about to go hard on maximum military…still it's okay. There are other buffs to pursue because, finally, it's automata time

 

[Neablis]

--[ ] Novel Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development II (0.5) + Experimental Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development (0.5)
--[ ] The Shatterprow (Glint AP)

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Me: ???

You gotta unlock the other too.

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Oh, I see. Yeah, fine for better psytech we gotta do the shatterprow. Grumble. Bah I almost want to question the value - except that's how we get more choir-efficient, isn't it? Maybe we should hold off on the refit action until we get the upgraded Hymns.

But why Novel Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development II (0.5) + Experimental Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development (0.5)? I suppose just to keep our armies up to date, but I'd almost prefer to do one of
-[] Minaturized Irrita Translation Algorithm
-[] Civilian Automata
-[] Safely Harmonized Cogitation Equilibrium
Or just plow two actions into
-[] Autonomous Automata !!!WARNING!!!

I'd love to figure out how to get safe automata. It's probably a song like
Machinery Song Family Hope Humanity - The Rythmn Of Mankind Within The Cogs

The Rythmn Of Mankind Within The Cogs

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[HeroCooky]

1. Will Minaturized Irrita Translation Algorithm improve relations with the Shipwright's Grove?
2. What are Void Automata? Are those full ships, or just reduce crewing requirements for our ships? Will that make ships cheaper?
3. Does Civilian Automata do anything other than just an across-the-board QoL increase?
4. Is there a way we can make Autonomous Automata !!!WARNING!!! more safe? I.e. spend multiple research actions on it to improve safeguards, come up with a song that awakens the automata to benevolence?
5. How big are Super-Heavy Automata? Are we talking heavy infantry, tanks or titans here?

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1. By design and knock-on effects.
2. Imagine little drone buddies for your strike craft.
3. No.
4. Lmao, no.
5. Baneblade-sized.

 

[Alectai]

Ah, okay then, I'll adjust the researches.

 

[10ebbor10]

How autonomous are we talking, anyway?

Like, self-driving taxi, or person?

Who wants to hook up with someone while knowing they will wither and die a dozen times over before you ever get so much as a grey hair?"

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First of all, you already had that problem when you got approved for Juvenat in the first place, secondly, you're a Thule in active duty.

Aging is not the limiter on your lifespan.

 

[Alectai]

Done, I've put Irritia Translations in the place of the Novel/Experimental stuff.

Hmm, a question does come to mind, Autoloaders + BESH Missiles + Tiny Manufactory + Swarms/Macross Missiles + Snapshot, our Crux-Ts are going to be nightmare fuel, aren't they @HeroCooky ? That's an absurd amount of dakka on a surprisingly sturdy chassis, and the Manufactory likely means that they can keep up with the strain of actually firing their missiles by resupplying on the go, right?

 

[Sol Mark-1]

If we did both 0.5 Research options, would it count for actions?

 

[One Autumn Leaf]

If we did both 0.5 Research options, would it count for actions?

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It would. It's still one action after all.

 

[Alectai]

Also, is Thule-69 a fucking Perpetual somehow?

 

[BlueHelix]

I think the issue for AI reading the WoG is again their artificial soul stuff being highly like, fragile and already somewhat pre-broken

So what we need is less "awakening them benevolently" and more a ritual to "stabilize their souls" or something like that

We've got a pretty good go at a decent environment for AI thanks to being Iconoclasts and Hallow-fying worlds, we just really need to figure out a soul-stabilization / fixing ritual

Might unironically be locked behind medical (psy)tech tbh if it's not just a regular old Song

 

[One Autumn Leaf]

I think the issue for AI reading the WoG is again their artificial soul stuff being highly like, fragile and already somewhat pre-broken

So what we need is less "awakening them benevolently" and more a ritual to "stabilize their souls" or something like that

We've got a pretty good go at a decent environment for AI thanks to being Iconoclasts and Hallow-fying worlds, we just really need to figure out a soul-stabilization / fixing ritual

Might unironically be locked behind medical (psy)tech tbh if it's not just a regular old Song

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We have songs to protect(potentially) and cure corruption(albeit slowly) so there is something there. If we want to do more automation the answer might be to scale it bigger rather than make it more sophisticated in intelligence

 

[BigBadBob7070]

[] [Light Cruiser] Andromeda-secundus (Andromeda-S) Pathfinder Ship
-[] Length - 4.000 Meters (+1 DP)
-[] Width - 550 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 6 Gravities (-1 DP)
-[] Armor - Medium Double Hull
-[] Shields - One Matrix
-[] Weapons - 2x Medium Khopesh Missile Pods (-3 DP)
-[] Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Ship Shrines/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lattice Hulls/Armored Bridge/Augmetic Security Department/Hymns of the Machines (-22 DP)

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First up here, and I must say that the Andromeda you have here offends me deeply. Khopesh missile pods have got to be the worst choice we could have made for this*. If we really want this safe and out of the way, something else like Hangars or Lances would be better than single use missile pods. Like, Two Medium Hangars with Interceptors and Rad Bombers would be good to have on this and you'd save out on enough DP to give them Strict Pilot Training and Veteran Pilot Genelines. Remember, the only time we ever lost an Andromeda, let alone even threatened, was due to the rest of our fleet pretty much getting routed so if the Andromeda is ever in the position to use those Missile Pods, we've pretty much already lost, thus making it kinda pointless.

And I think having Lattice Hulls and Augmetic Security Dept on this is going about it the wrong way. If you really want to make sure it's protected from something that could Deep Strike it, Shield Overload would be significantly better since it could make it temporarily invincible to the point it could tank a Starcannon shot from a Flyssa.


*Imo a light Missile Pod would be great fantastic to have on the Crux to give it a nasty opener and distract enemy PDT

[] [Frigate] Crux-tertium (Crux-T) Heavy Frigate
-[] Length - 2.000 Meters
-[] Width - 550 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 8 Gravities
-[] Armor - Medium Double Hull (-1 DP)
-[] Shields - Two Arrays
-[] Weapons - 4x60m Torpedoes/2x Medium Missile Batteries (-3 DP)
-[] Equipment - Missile Swarms/Ship Shrines/Autoloaders/Armored Life Pods/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Expanded Snapshot Targetting Solutions/BESH Missile Stores/Tiny On-Board Manufactory/Macross Missile Massacres (-20 DP)

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Ok, I don't know why you're going with the Manufactory, it doesn't really jive with this ship imo. Without that you could fit on a Light Khopesh Missile Pod, Tuned Shields, and Internal Security Systems or an Armored Prow.

Also, I must say that I'm sad that it seems like we more just not gonna use the Phalanx Aengium on any of our ships, just doomed to rot in our ship list forever…

[] [Destroyer] Aries-Tertium (Aries-T) Corvette
-[] Length - 1.600 Meters
-[] Width - 400 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 9 Gravities
-[] Armor - Thin Double Hull
-[] Shields - One Array
-[] Weapons - 3x Light Plasma Macrocannon Turrets (-3 DP)
-[] Equipment - Armored Lifepods/Autoloaders/Ship Shrines/Lattice Hulls/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Expanded Snapshot Targeting Solutions/After-Burner Macro-Shells (-15 DP)

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If you REALLY want Eldar Agility, I would say ditch the After-Burner Macro-Shells and replace them with Emergency Maneuver Thrusters. We don't really need this to be that long ranged and as a Destroyer, it's best odds of survival is to maximize maneuverability as much as possible.

[] [Destroyer] Pyxis-Secundus (Pyxis-S) Advanced Scout Sloop
-[] Length - 1.200 Meters (+4 DP)
-[] Width - 250 Meters (+3 DP)
-[] Acceleration - 9 Gravities
-[] Armor - Single Hull (+2 DP)
-[] Shields - One Array
-[] Weapons - 2x Light Missile Batteries (-1 DP)
-[] Equipment - Ship Shrines/Spacious Crew Quarters/On-Board Supply Generation/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Refractive Hull Coating/Veteran Crews/Tiny On-Board Manufactory/Stealth Engine Dampeners/The Celestial Orrery (-26 DP)

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Again I have to ask, why the Spacious Crew Quarters? All it does is make it so we have more Crew on a ship which is good for a ship expected to take crew losses, but a Scout Ship should optimally run on as few people as possible. Could keep On-Board Supply Generation Enhanced without it.

 

[Alectai]

... The Khopesh Missile Pods aren't to be used tactically, they're a "Something jumps in and tries to murder your bus, and they blow it the fuck up with overwhelming firepower" It's for the likes of, say, a squadron of Flyssas teleporting on top of them.

It's an Emergency Button, and the fact you're losing your mind over a cheap Emergency Button is kind of baffling me. It's better to have it and not need it after all.

Manufactory is because Swarms + Macross Missile Massacre gives it very low combat endurance, Manufactory mitigates this by being able to manufacture more missiles in-situ.

I mean, Phalanx is nice, but the main problem is that it requires you to bunch up, and we've already developed doctrine that badly punishes it. Much of our doctrine requires mobility, and restraining that just to stack shields feels wrongheaded.

 

[Neablis]

So what we need is less "awakening them benevolently" and more a ritual to "stabilize their souls" or something like that

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Agreed. I want to try to go after some songs - that's likely most of the answer. Here are some options:

A Spark From Lumbering Machines - Machinery, Progress, Creativity, Hope, Technology
Machines Shielded Against Abberant Thoughts - Protection Technology Void, Song Unity
The Rythmn Of Mankind Within The Cogs - Machinery Song Family Hope Humanity

@HeroCooky Are any of the above or below good options to protect an AI from chaos?
Machinery Protection Creativity Hope Technology
Machinery Creativity Compassion Protection Unity
Technology Creativity Protection Unity Hope
Grounding Technology Protection Unity Humanity

I could keep going, but I don't want to overwhelm you.

Done, I've put Irritia Translations in the place of the Novel/Experimental stuff.

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Cool. Yeah, those planty-guys have been great, hopefully this will help out with the Shipwright's when we finally get around to diplomancing them. Though arguably that's a reason to go for one of the other researches - like the superheavy automota. I want baneblade robots.

 

[One Autumn Leaf]

-[] Safely Harmonized Cogitation Equilibrium
(Gain: Develop the means to allow multiple brains to communicate and act as a semi-coherent singular entity. Safeguards Included, thanks to New Dawn.)

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I want to grab this so badly lol. Not sure how insane it is but this is basically Geth tier communication/hivemind by the sounds of it

 

[HelioA]

I'm fine with stopping at the current line of Automata actions for now. Industrial Automata should give our production a nice kick in the pants, and there's a ton of worthwhile research to do besides Autonomous Automata.

 

[Neablis]

First up here, and I must say that the Andromeda you have here offends me deeply. Khopesh missile pods have got to be the worst choice we could have made for this*. If we really want this safe and out of the way, something else like Hangars or Lances would be better than single use missile pods. Like, Two Medium Hangars with Interceptors and Rad Bombers would be good to have on this and you'd save out on enough DP to give them Strict Pilot Training and Veteran Pilot Genelines. Remember, the only time we ever lost an Andromeda, let alone even threatened, was due to the rest of our fleet pretty much getting routed so if the Andromeda is ever in the position to use those Missile Pods, we've pretty much already lost, thus making it kinda pointless.

And I think having Lattice Hulls and Augmetic Security Dept on this is going about it the wrong way. If you really want to make sure it's protected from something that could Deep Strike it, Shield Overload would be significantly better since it could make it temporarily invincible to the point it could tank a Starcannon shot from a Flyssa.


*Imo a light Missile Pod would be great fantastic to have on the Crux to give it a nasty opener and distract enemy PDT

Ok, I don't know why you're going with the Manufactory, it doesn't really jive with this ship imo. Without that you could fit on a Light Khopesh Missile Pod, Tuned Shields, and Internal Security Systems or an Armored Prow.

Also, I must say that I'm sad that it seems like we more just not gonna use the Phalanx Aengium on any of our ships, just doomed to rot in our ship list forever…

If you REALLY want Eldar Agility, I would say ditch the After-Burner Macro-Shells and replace them with Emergency Maneuver Thrusters. We don't really need this to be that long ranged and as a Destroyer, it's best odds of survival is to maximize maneuverability as much as possible.

Again I have to ask, why the Spacious Crew Quarters? All it does is make it so we have more Crew on a ship which is good for a ship expected to take crew losses, but a Scout Ship should optimally run on as few people as possible. Could keep On-Board Supply Generation Enhanced without it.

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I think I'm with Alectai on most of this.

The pods are great on the Andromeda, because if it ever fights it's fighting to run away, not to win. The pods are an exceptional alpha strike to destroy or distract an enemy while the Andromeda runs for cover. Though you might have a point with the overloaded shields over the lattice hull. But I like the idea of improved security to protect our precious choirs from lictors or assassins or whatever.

The manufactories on the Crux make a ton of sense - those things are going to be supply hogs and are going to be the limiter on fleet deployments. Putting a manufactory on them to cut that down is a great idea.

The Phalanx Aengium is something you design a doctrine around. A doctrine that isn't ours, and in fact looks a lot more like what the duchy has. Spam out a ton of ships with it so that you can get a lot of the advantages of small ships without their cost. We might design a new-style custom SBG to fight enemies like the 'nids or whatever based around it, but that point isn't now (Though how would you design an anti-nid fleet? Lots of rad-lances?)

As for spacious crew quarters on the scout - those things are intended for long-ranged deployment of years at a time, calling home via choir to communicate scouting intel. The spacious crew quarters aren't about fitting more crew, they're about making the existing crew more comfortable. Which is very important for multi-year deployments. So it's an efficiency upgrade more than anything else, like veteran crews but cheaper.

Speaking of - I wonder if the ugpraded communication song upgrades our scouting since the choirs don't need to come home to report in anymore.

 

[HeroCooky]

How autonomous are we talking, anyway?

Like, self-driving taxi, or person?


First of all, you already had that problem when you got approved for Juvenat in the first place, secondly, you're a Thule in active duty.

Aging is not the limiter on your lifespan.

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Basic RL-Game AI. Basic.

There is a big difference between "Here's a treatment that will give you 100 years, off you go now!" and "Yeah, you will only die violently, never naturally" here, especially for internalizing the whole thing. Emotions aren't bound by logic, after all.

Also, not everyone gets the full 500 years, you need to re-take Rejuvenat for that, and she only got approved for one dose.

Also, is Thule-69 a fucking Perpetual somehow?

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Nope, just biologically immortal. You can still pull a gat and dome her real easy.

Machinery Protection Creativity Hope Technology
Machinery Creativity Compassion Protection Unity
Technology Creativity Protection Unity Hope
Grounding Technology Protection Unity Humanity

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Sylphan Shields Shimmer
Mere Clockwork Does Not Yearn
More Than Advance United
See Our Advances Bound By Kin

Though how would you design an anti-nid fleet? Lots of rad-lances?

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A shit-load of internal security and weight of fire with massive engines to run away.

 

[BigBadBob7070]

... The Khopesh Missile Pods aren't to be used tactically, they're a "Something jumps in and tries to murder your bus, and they blow it the fuck up with overwhelming firepower" It's for the likes of, say, a squadron of Flyssas teleporting on top of them.

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And that's what we have Escorts for to deal with something like that, and if you really are worried about a Squadron of Flyssa's jumping in, the best defense against that would be the Equipment that would turn it literally Invincible.

And really, I'm not so sure we'll have to worry too much about the Flyssa doing that to the Andromeda since while it has great strategic value, it's tactical value is pretty much nil and it would be better going after our Carriers like they did the last time. And that was before they've lost access to their primary recruiting world for hundreds of years now and the "Machine Spirit" they've used to pilot it has long since come under scrutiny as likely being an Abominable Intelligence.

So with that in mind, if anyone would go for the Andromeda, they'd likely do it through more "traditional" methods, such as Destroyers equipped with Torpedoes or Bombers, and the best defense against that would be Anti-Voidcraft Turrets or Interceptors

Manufactory is because Swarms + Macross Missile Massacre gives it very low combat endurance, Manufactory mitigates this by being able to manufacture more missiles in-situ.

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I'm unsure how useful this will be, b/c I don't think a Tiny Manufactory would be able to meaningfully make enough missiles during a battle to really make a difference instead of making it even more Killy and/or defensible

 

[Alectai]

@HeroCooky , just to confim, Tiny Manufactory works to extend the combat endurance of any ships it has, because it can refurbish munitions in-situ, is that correct?

Also, Bob, Andromedas go to the edge of the system when combat's about to start and then go to ground. Bombers and Destroyers don't have 'Infinite range', where they can just take as wipe at something in the outer system. The only real solution barring a massive tech mismatch is "Hide a few light craft in the outer system to jump them from ambush", and the bigger your ship is, the harder it is to hide--the missile pods mean that anything that tries to sneak up on them like that gets swat out of the sky, and isn't likely to do enough damage in the meantime to hurt it.