Oh well three movies I won't be seeing.
Star Wars General Discussion Thread
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TheColorPurple
I'm purple lol
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I don't know if there's much crossover between Movie Twitter and Toxic Star Wars Fandom twitter though. Movie Twitter quite likes TLJ - they're not as prone to walking out of a movie in December 2015 and never, ever, ever reappraising if what they thought happened in it two seconds after the movie was over was maybe ... wrong, for example.
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I mean Star Wars Twitter.
I already wish Johnson would just uproot his trilogy and make it not Star Wars. I don't want to deal with the fanbase regarding this - it was genuinely startling to rewatch TLJ and feel the joy it brought me because I associate it with so much misery.
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Renewal
Boring Person #5883781345
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If it's any consolation, Johnson's star has risen a bit in the public eye since TLJ, because Knives Out was such a huge hit. Coupled with the fact that he probably won't be touching sacred cows from the OT with his trilogy, the general response will hopefully be a lot more positive. Maybe that'll be enough to drown out the diehard haters.
And it's just idle speculation for now anyway, since we're probably still years away from it. And who knows, because of that delay, maybe the ST will finally begin to benefit from the nostalgia curve; I won't expect the Johnson trilogy to be complete for at least another five years, and the gap between TLJ and that will be comparable to the gap between the PT and TCW near its height, when prequel apologia was really starting to gather momentum.
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It's going to be interesting to see how that pans out, and to see if TLJ is treated differently to the Abrams films either side of it.
On a less controversial note, started on Light of the Jedi and I'm liking it. Real nice to see Jedi actively rescuing people.
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I wonder if it's going to come out at the same time as Half Life 3?
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MagicMan333
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Buddy, when you start having that particular mix of emotions, that's when it's time to leave a fandom.Not stop watching Star Wars or anything, but blacklisting tags or leaving Reddits. Despite what some people think a thing and it's fandom are not the same thing and you can easily decouple them. Participation in fandoms are not worth the love you have for the things that spawn them.
I had the same experience with the SU fandom when it went into its most toxic phase and it was an honest to god relief to watch an episode without worryong about what I was going to see on Tumblr the next day. It's a big reason why I haven't touched the wider Star Wars fandom since TFA came out.
I'm probably overreacting to this statement and for all Iknow it's hyperbole but I've seen similar things happen to way too many people at this point to not want to say something.
Anyway, I'm happy there's finally going to be some conversation around High Republic on this forum. For all the talk about Star Wars doing the same thing all the time, seeing no one talk about this whole new era of Star Wars was more than a little frustrating. (I understand that people need time to buy or otherwise get access to things but it's been over a month at this point and...*unimportant raving*).
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Z-Cosmonaut
Self-Requested Ban
When it comes to Fandoms, I Mostly stick with the cool cats posting fanart and funny memes. I don't bother with discussion all that much, especially on Twitter where things can get rather mob-ish.
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Totally missed this at the time, kinda like it. Actually, for that matter I need to figure out which if any of the Resistance heroes would be able to go undercover in an FO facility with their face on show. I think it might only be Kaydel.
Triggerhappy
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I mean, I feel the song is totally at odds with the nature of the Rebel Alliance.
Like as in most of the Rebel Leadership at some point or other has put their lives on the line for the Rebellion. Mothma was nearly killed in an Imperial mop up of the Senate, Dodanna was an Imperial Defector and lead his forces in battles where his own life was on the line, Princess Leia was literally tortured and her world, a prosperous one, paid the ultimate price for resistance.
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Neal Caffrey
Watch White Collar.
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It's like a retroactive propaganda film for the New Republic, "look guys we always were the actually good ones at warfare and we were always fighting the imperials"..
But outside of memeing I agree with your post.
Triggerhappy
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I mean, don't get me wrong it looks cool.
It's just obligatory because Fortunate Son is the most misused song related to a war in all of popular media.
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
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I mean, the Rebels would be more likely to have songs like 'Mon Mothma is with us on our Campaigns' or 'Onwards to Coruscant!' considering who's supposed to be who in Vietname comparison.
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So I rewatched Revenge of the Sith, and I have some lengthy thoughts on the filmmaking craft therein. Because holy balls, it drives me mad.
It's been said before that the filmmaking is static and unimaginative, mostly by Mr Plinkett, and I think lots of people dismiss that criticism now (not helped by the fact that we've had JJ Abrams' direction for the last half-decade with all its shallow flash-bangery). But the thing is the issue goes further than the choices being uninteresting - they shut us out of the characters' emotions at several points, which actively harms the story.
The story in RotS moves fast, but there's very little sense of energy being built up during the scenes which means that we don't seem to move purposefully between them. We tend to just flop into the next sequence, and this is especially the case where dialogue scenes are concerned. There are precious few instances where the camera really works to emphasise someone's emotions, which is downright weird for a grand Galactic tragedy. The one that really sticks with me is when Obi-Wan watches the recording of Anakin murdering the younglings - there's no push-in or meaningful cut when the display switches to show what's happened, nothing to ram that home.
The film eschews almost every chance it gets for character moments to happen physically. Padme could take Anakin's hand and put it on her stomach, and we could silently do the pregnancy reveal. But no, she just says it, while the camera remains resolutely at shoulder height, which only adds to the stiltedness of the scene.
Even what ought to be the really grand moments of tragedy end up with bits that feel... off. Unlike in the books, Obi-Wan doesn't depart because he can see Palpatine or his ship coming into view. He just... picks up Anakin's lightsaber and walks away in a manner that's kind of sheepish. He doesn't stagger away, looking regretfully back, and he doesn't run to help Padme. He simply walks, as we watch him from a distance.
And I know lots of people will say that this was Lucas being avant-garde or not pandering to the dumb-dumbs who need their hands holding, but look, subjectivity isn't just a thing that big dumb blockbusters tend to do; there's a reason for Spielberg, Nolan and everyone else using it. Lucas made very deliberate choices here, but I don't think they're good choices for the story he was telling. It's a less extreme version of the problem that Tom Hooper movies tend to have.
It's been said before that the filmmaking is static and unimaginative, mostly by Mr Plinkett, and I think lots of people dismiss that criticism now (not helped by the fact that we've had JJ Abrams' direction for the last half-decade with all its shallow flash-bangery). But the thing is the issue goes further than the choices being uninteresting - they shut us out of the characters' emotions at several points, which actively harms the story.
The story in RotS moves fast, but there's very little sense of energy being built up during the scenes which means that we don't seem to move purposefully between them. We tend to just flop into the next sequence, and this is especially the case where dialogue scenes are concerned. There are precious few instances where the camera really works to emphasise someone's emotions, which is downright weird for a grand Galactic tragedy. The one that really sticks with me is when Obi-Wan watches the recording of Anakin murdering the younglings - there's no push-in or meaningful cut when the display switches to show what's happened, nothing to ram that home.
The film eschews almost every chance it gets for character moments to happen physically. Padme could take Anakin's hand and put it on her stomach, and we could silently do the pregnancy reveal. But no, she just says it, while the camera remains resolutely at shoulder height, which only adds to the stiltedness of the scene.
Even what ought to be the really grand moments of tragedy end up with bits that feel... off. Unlike in the books, Obi-Wan doesn't depart because he can see Palpatine or his ship coming into view. He just... picks up Anakin's lightsaber and walks away in a manner that's kind of sheepish. He doesn't stagger away, looking regretfully back, and he doesn't run to help Padme. He simply walks, as we watch him from a distance.
And I know lots of people will say that this was Lucas being avant-garde or not pandering to the dumb-dumbs who need their hands holding, but look, subjectivity isn't just a thing that big dumb blockbusters tend to do; there's a reason for Spielberg, Nolan and everyone else using it. Lucas made very deliberate choices here, but I don't think they're good choices for the story he was telling. It's a less extreme version of the problem that Tom Hooper movies tend to have.
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MagicMan333
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The thing is, I don't think these were actual choices Lucas made. I just think this was another manifestation of him not being on the top of his game/ becoming to obsessed with certain ideas for his own good. A big part of this is the direction of his actors. From what I've seen from interviews, the actors admit to having had a super hard time emoting or hitting proper emotional beats because of the green-screen environments they were in. Since they didn't have an actual physical environment to attach their existence to they couldn't put themselves into the situations without help. Now, this hurdle could have been overcome with good direction but, apparently, that didn't happen. And I really do think it was bad direction because all of his actors (Yes, even Christensen) were incredibly talented people when they were on game. But they weren't. The only performance I think is completely solid is McDiarmid followed by McGregor. Everyone else...
While I do think the complaint of too much CG might come down to taste, I do think the overabundance of green screen probably did drop a bomb into the acting (and possibly more intimate forms of cinematography). The more time goes on, the more and more I see the Prequels as the film equivalent of first drafts. Great ideas and vision hampered by a lack of cleaning up or at least of putting in supports to minimize style and direction problems (like say getting a co-director or some kind of equivalent specifically to help the actors with their performances and getting people to clean up dialogue which are the two big problems I have with the Prequels).
While I do think the complaint of too much CG might come down to taste, I do think the overabundance of green screen probably did drop a bomb into the acting (and possibly more intimate forms of cinematography). The more time goes on, the more and more I see the Prequels as the film equivalent of first drafts. Great ideas and vision hampered by a lack of cleaning up or at least of putting in supports to minimize style and direction problems (like say getting a co-director or some kind of equivalent specifically to help the actors with their performances and getting people to clean up dialogue which are the two big problems I have with the Prequels).
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I go back and forth on what I believe, tbh. Because Lucas has talked about the tone and direction of the films being very deliberate (which makes these the blockbuster equivalents of Tom Hooper musical adaptations, I suppose) and they are so dogged on refusing to do the obvious things in terms of shots.
But on the other hand, filming in a subjective way, I imagine, takes plenty of time and thought, and blocking was probably tricky on green screens early on.
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One thing to consider is all green screen filming has come a long way, at the time there was basically no experience with it in the industry at all, whereas now it is a completely different story.
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True, but looking at Lord of the Rings, filmed around the same time, the difference in the cinematography is stark. Those movies are shot to be subjective as hell, including their green screen sequences. Which is part of what leads me to believe that Lucas may well have been making very deliberate but misaimed choices.
MagicMan333
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Which I definitely think too. A big part of this is people having to figure out the cutting edge tech and how to work around it's deficiencies.
This is part of what I mean when I say Lucas got too obsessed with certain ideas. He got so into that green screen tech as a way to bring his vision to life that he didn't (or wouldn't; YMMV) account and correct for the problems it spawned. It's really too bad that he didn't either pull back just enough to make it not so bad or didn't do the work needed to minimize the issues.
Edit: Responding to IfIhadAHammer. Bluntblade ninja'd me.
2nd edit so I can respond to bluntblade without double posting: I think those two things aren't necessarily exclusive. Part of why I could never join the full out Prequel apologists, despite having an appreciation for them, is how I think Lucas' deficiencies during the product outright undercut what he was trying to do and say.
In particular, how his writing completely distorted what he was trying to say about the Jedi; spawning all the the-Jedi-are-an-evil-child-stealing-cult bullshit that people refuse to abandon even with the new EU giving it a wide berth.
This is part of what I mean when I say Lucas got too obsessed with certain ideas. He got so into that green screen tech as a way to bring his vision to life that he didn't (or wouldn't; YMMV) account and correct for the problems it spawned. It's really too bad that he didn't either pull back just enough to make it not so bad or didn't do the work needed to minimize the issues.
Edit: Responding to IfIhadAHammer. Bluntblade ninja'd me.
2nd edit so I can respond to bluntblade without double posting: I think those two things aren't necessarily exclusive. Part of why I could never join the full out Prequel apologists, despite having an appreciation for them, is how I think Lucas' deficiencies during the product outright undercut what he was trying to do and say.
In particular, how his writing completely distorted what he was trying to say about the Jedi; spawning all the the-Jedi-are-an-evil-child-stealing-cult bullshit that people refuse to abandon even with the new EU giving it a wide berth.
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"Undercut" is definitely the right word, I'd say. I spent so much of my rewatch (only coming a week after I watched the most divisive Star War and it gave me all the feels once again) going "but why this shot?" because there's so much that just doesn't serve the needs of the scene half as well as it could. Which is then accentuated by parts that feel like Lucas is just flexing in the effects-heavy sequences. And a baffling bit when Obi-Wan's about to fight Grievous where we get the only extreme close-ups for the film. That would be appropriate for a climactic face-off when the drama's built to a head.
Oh, and there is a good shot of Anakin's scorched robot hand. That's a nice, moody shot.
I'd be genuinely fascinated to see how RotS would play if you adapted it to animation in the style of TCW or just shot it with a more subjective style. It wouldn't be enough to salvage the script and performances, but I suspect it would have a greater effect than people tend to imagine.
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This might be me being extremely cynical, but I feel like half of this newfound appreciation is just the Prequels being used as a tool to bash the sequel trilogy. Like there's been a whole lot of "Lucas was robbed, lucas' vision was distorted by Disney" and other nonsense like that.
BBadolato
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I'm of the same mindset, the prequels definitely engaged in 'pandering' to certain audiences in terms of politics, where very political in messaging, and 'ruined' certain characters, and brought in new villain's with little to no introduction like Grievous. There looking at Lucas with nostalgia tainted glasses, unless their hoping he learned from his 'mistakes' from the prequels, and applying that to his sequels.
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Admittedly Grievous was introduced in the original clone wars series that was broadcast in the time between the second and third movies which even explained Grievous's breathing issues via Mace Windu force crushing his chest when he was escaping with Palpatine as his 'prisoner' which followed in the grand tradition star wars tradition of introducing secondary villains via cartoons given that is how Boba Fett was also originally introduced.
I suspect vastly more people watched the original clone wars series though than ever watched the Star Wars Holiday Special where the cartoon short that introduced Boba Fett first appeared.
I suspect vastly more people watched the original clone wars series though than ever watched the Star Wars Holiday Special where the cartoon short that introduced Boba Fett first appeared.