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Skitterdoc 2077

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spiritualatheist said:
"This Original Character (do not steal) you've never heard of could take Adam Smasher" is just bad writing, and it is again made worse by the fact that the noncanon Astor family are suddenly revealed to *also* have in house AI and the aforementioned setting breaking biotech.
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I don't think the story actually says he could take Adam Smasher, just that at some point in the past they worked in the same area and that he didn't go around randomly killing people like Adam Smasher did. And their biotech can keep up with him within the limited domain of playing tennis.

I just got the impression that his principal is much, much better than him at tennis, and that he's so much better than Taylor that he might as well be in the same league as Adam Smasher from her perspective.
 
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Dakkah said:
Might've misread but honestly didn't get that impression, working in the same area as someone, or looking down on their propensity for collateral* isn't the same as "Mr. Blond would fold him like a cheap chair", especially since the two of them have entirely different builds and MO.

Not all Borgs are created equal, and not all of them perform the same roles.

(As for the Bioware being on a comparable strength and reflex level as certain types of Borg, I kinda agree with the SOD but fairly certain that that was inspired by the TTRPG.)

*Professionals have standards.
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I'm comparing him to Adam Smasher because he has the same whatever-it-is that lets Smasher completely ignore humanity costs/perfectly integrate cyberware, which is what makes him special in universe.
 
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I think a lot of the people criticizing them deciding that she is not an imposter are forgetting one of the key conceits of this story. The fact that alt Taylor existed at all. Taylor and alt Taylor having similar mental makeup despite growing up in different environments goes right along with them both being born decades apart in different circumstances.

Thanks for the chapter. I am very much enjoying this story.
 
WillRobinson said:
I just got the impression that his principal is much, much better than him at tennis, and that he's so much better than Taylor that he might as well be in the same league as Adam Smasher from her perspective.
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That's hard to say for sure. I don't think Taylor or Adam even play tennis.

They probably wouldn't be capable of finishing a match without destroying the court either way.
 
spiritualatheist said:
The questioning took enough time and was detailed enough that they were able to find out that she was trying to sell *specifically antibiotics* and expected it to be worth over a billion dollars. If they were that thorough it's extremely hard to believe that they weren't able to figure out her origins or superpower. That impression really isn't helped by the decision to hold the interrogation off screen, which means we the readers have no idea what the holes in their info are (although the fact that the interrogation was at the point of asking about her ip rather than who she was is telling).

And I agree that people on that level exist in-universe. The issue is introducing one out of nowhere as a servant of Taylor's family, who are suddenly revealed *also* have in-house ai and all be biologically augmented to the point of being able to keep up with cutting edge full-borg conversions :rolleyes:. It's moving the story away from Taylor the relatively ordinary person trying to survive in Night City to Taylor the secret corpo princess being tested by her super speshul evil family.

Edit: personally I think the chapter would have worked much better without the first section. Leaving the readers as in the dark as Taylor was would have kept the tension of the chapter going and made us sympathize with her much more than the massive exposition dump that we got.
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Are we reading the same chapter?

Because IIRC, the literal chapter where the interrogation happened and the subsequent one in which he debrief both says that he is pressed for time.

And how is the interrogation done off-screen?

The chapter literally shows that Taylor put the not!mind reader and then getting asked words.

She kinda zoned out in the middle since she's doing the thing to summon TT by circumventing the Faraday Cage.

Which is exactly the reason why they hasn't managed to erase her memory of the encounter and interrogation as is the plan.

Which is shown in the debrief.

Seriously, read the chapters.

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On Taylor having an uber-wealthy family has been put from almost the beginning of her entry into Trauma Team.

In which the higher up, upon realizing that Taylor's mother's maiden name is Astor-Armstrong, inform the other member of the management about the possibility that she's a 'wild descendant'.

Taylor the "Relatively Regular Person in Night City"?

This "regular person" that can measure people's BP and heart rate by looking at the movement of the vein on the skin from more than a meter away?

Taylor Hebert is never a regular person.

She might think she is, but that spark that made her capable of killing god in another timeline is always there.

It was even shown in her internal monologue in the earlier chapter.

SpiraSpira said:
Perhaps when I took over the world, I could make it more egalitarian, but now I would just save those who I could.
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So, yeah...

It's totally in line with the story.

spiritualatheist said:
There's a big difference between stable full borg conversion and Adam Smasher-level compatibility, which is what he's described to have.
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And there's also a big difference between playing at that level and being capable of beating Adam and Blackhand.

After all, being able to stall and then get away is also considered at "that level"
 
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spiritualatheist said:
Sure, but that's never been established in-story. The thing about Adam Smasher or Morgan Blackhand is that we the readers are familiar with them and to some degree are already invested in them as characters, that's how fanfiction works. Inventing a new character totally on that level and expecting the readers to care about them when they show up is a huge issue even if it makes some sense in-universe for people like that to exist. It feels arbitrary and contrived rather than interesting, *especially* when we are told out of the blue that Taylor's family *also* has setting-breaking levels of biotech and their own ais. It's a doylist critique, not a watsonian one.
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He's not on Smasher's level, but he is old and has survived so in a sense they are contemporaries. But he isn't the dervish of destruction that Smasher is, nor is he as preternaturally dangerous and good as Morgan Blackhand. That said, he is an old man in a profession where people die young.

Smasher is "FLESH IS WEAK" almost on the level of Warhammer 40k Mechanicum, Mr William is just: "Cybernetics is a tool." He's never drooled over a Arasaka DaiOni battle suit, or even used one. Geminis aren't built for combat. I mean, they're very good at it, but they're built for living. Smasher walks around in a giant battle suit, this guy tries to blend in. It's a different perspective.
 
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SpiraSpira said:
He's not on Smasher's level, but he is old and has survived so in a sense they are contemporaries. But he isn't the dervish of destruction that Smasher is, nor is he as preternaturally dangerous and good as Morgan Blackhand. That said, he is an old man in a profession where people die young.

Smasher is "FLESH IS WEAK" almost on the level of Warhammer 40k Mechanicum, Mr William is just: "Cybernetics is a tool." He's never drooled over a Arasaka DaiOni battle suit, or even used one. Geminis aren't built for combat. I mean, they're very good at it, but they're built for living. Smasher walks around in a giant battle suit, this guy tries to blend in. It's a different perspective.
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That addresses a lot of my issues, thanks for clarifying!
gaouw said:
And how is the interrogation done off-screen?

The chapter literally shows that Taylor put the not!mind reader and then getting asked words.
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It also elided over a detailed setnof questions about her history, which is what I was referring to.
 
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Is it wrong that I took all the elements described and ended up with the idea of Taylor deorbiting some private habitats into the City of London? To make a point?
 
So some stats to tone down the perception of cyberninjas tolerance.
SpiraSpira said:
He was one of the very first people to receive one of Raven Microcybernetics' full conversion systems.
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Seems like he's only used a Gemini system, though probably gone through some different ones over the years.

Gemini full conversions have the second lightest Humanity cost of its type, at 16d6+2, just barely more expensive than an Alpha Class at 16d6, which is considered the absolute bare bones generic full conversion.

Most others are 19-21d6.

The Dragoon model Smasher is known to use? 42d6+3.

Gemini's worst roll cost is 98, while a Dragoon's average is 129 (worst at 255). Of course, I doubt he had 10 Empathy for 100 Humanity, though he certainly has more than other members of the family, and even then trauma from the fighting and the injury would have reduced it, plus this doesn't account for other cyberwear used before or moded into his new body.

So maybe he is a high functioning crazy like Smasher, but if you really want just imagine it's just a natural affinity which reduced 'cost' and got a lucky roll. He does seem remarkably more stable than one would expect, and from the section about Annette is still clearly capable of having fondness for other humans.
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Fortunately, Grandma's kind of an ass, so any empathy Taylor feels for replacing her grandaughter will soon fade.
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I like the idea that other Corps/ groups have their own 'solution', makes plenty of sense.

Maybe some even tried raising their own Smasher, but they couldn't keep theirs stable, or they caught the real one's attention, or they couldn't handle the backlash from the collateral as well as Arasaka could, and in the end, they all just decided a small group of cyberninjas was just better for them. Less trouble, more discreet, easier to handle.
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SpiraSpira said:
There were stories that Adam Smasher one vee one'd a main battle tank, ripping it apart like it was nothing.
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Also, holy shit, I think I found out why Smasher fought that Main Battle Tank:
Maximum Mike AKA Mike Pondsmith said:
Word of God: What most people forget is that Full Body Conversions like Adam have the option of using other cyberbodies. By 2023, Adam had a closetful. When he was dating Michiko, he usually used a Gemini (look it up) that looked and sounded disturbingly like a young, blond Elvis Presley.
[...]
And no, you don't call your bosses daughter "a fuckable piece of meat." Not if you don't want to be run over by a main battle tank.
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SpiraSpira said:
unless I turned myself into a literal mech. The sense in the back of my head was telling me we could easily replace one of our arms with a giant cannon, like the Earth game Megaman
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Halpppping!

SpiraSpira said:
He's not on Smasher's level, but he is old and has survived so in a sense they are contemporaries. But he isn't the dervish of destruction that Smasher is, nor is he as preternaturally dangerous and good as Morgan Blackhand. That said, he is an old man in a profession where people die young.

Smasher is "FLESH IS WEAK" almost on the level of Warhammer 40k Mechanicum, Mr William is just: "Cybernetics is a tool." He's never drooled over a Arasaka DaiOni battle suit, or even used one. Geminis aren't built for combat. I mean, they're very good at it, but they're built for living. Smasher walks around in a giant battle suit, this guy tries to blend in. It's a different perspective.
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That makes sense. He's very, very good, but didn't come across as quite as strong (or anywhere near as crazy, actually quite level headed honestly, which made the fact that apparently people called him crazy feel a little funny).

It's neat to see Taylor starting to really branch out here, both in the cyberware she gets for herself and also in pushing her tinkering past 2077 levels. She's mostly just made slightly better versions of regular stuff, but I'm intruiged to see things like her flies and other tinkertech that even corporations would have trouble (or outright couldn't) replicate
 
masterofmadness said:
Also he got his body because of a genuine need for a replacement and replacements do not count toward going cyberpyscho if I remember the lore right. Which if it does probably explains why he is like that if true in this story.
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This is veering on OOT, but this is the stat of Adam Smasher from Cyberpunk 2020 book (I think).


View: https://imgur.com/gallery/6ou3o0I

As you can see....

He got no EMP score.

In other words, that Humanity cost on installing cyberware is irrelevant for him.

He really is built different.
 
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If Taylor doesn't get this sorted before medical school, and the scholarship isn't presented just right, she might turn it down on the spot. Spite, paranoia and an urge to avoid leverage without considering that anyone who can arrange that probably has leverage already.

Be funny if she let loose a tailored (heh) virus into the MC bird population to make the mercs suffer/identify them once she's got all the sequences she can manage. Be an awful surprise if they left the city, returned one day and turned bright blue.
 
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Personally, I look at this situation through the following lens.

What is the relationship between Smasher, Blackhand and not-Bond? None, obviously, but there is some interesting contrast.

Smasher is the freak of nature who went all in on augs because he's a psychotic megalomaniac even without any cybernetics. He's not all that skilled, but his stats are artificially inflated through cybernetics to a massive extent and he has literally no Empathy.

Blackhand tries to minimize the usage of cybernetics and prioritizes skill, but he still compromises in places, such as the iconic black hand and the Sandy he needed not to end up like Johnny when Smasher found him (as in, splattered within seconds). He has average cybernetics and Empathy, but his skills are so high that even that is enough to make for something amazing.

Not-Bond, then, would be the guy who started off with an Empathy score of 8 or 9, and then used it up on cybernetics (especially stealth ones), to make up for the shortage of skills, until he built them up to an acceptable level. You can kinda see it in the way he behaves. He's spent half a century as a Gemini-using cyberninja, but he still tried to be relatively gentle, avoided collateral damage, didn't do Taylor any more harm than he needed to, didn't punish her for trying to assassinate him with cyanide and implied she'd die quickly (and probably painlessly) if she failed the test. He also didn't jump to conclusions when answers seemed to point towards Taylor being an imposter, but instead patiently finished the test and found out that wasn't quite the case. Then he just left, not even harming the Trauma Team troopers who interfered with the job. Plus, he defended Taylor from his subordinate's insults and acted like a completely normal human with his "mum". He's obviously not a saint, but half of the actual "completely normal humans" in Night City would have done so much worse.
 
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In most cases, (and the family had the money to afford this), therapy is a *must* for any full conversion. Even with that, on TT, Dragoons (aka the battleborgs) ... *yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah*.
 
The butler guy is can't take on of Smasher in a straight up fight because his build is not spec into being able to solo the entire Night City like 2077 MC. The butler guy spec is that he able to sneak into a 100 level tall fortress, silent the security and kidnap the executive in the pen house extract the next quarterly company plans then return the same guy memeory erase back to pen house without anyone raising the alarm.

Between Smasher killing 100s civs and everything of a hostile corp assets in 1 block radius vs the entire quarterly plans of Arasake size corp being review and accounted for. Which one would make more dmg to a something like Arasaka Smasher killing 100 civs public outcry or a branch quarterly plans is being used against them ?

Would any of the corps would go out to the unwashed, uneducated public that there are peoples out there who can sneak into their fortresses extract their plans without them even realizing it ? Better to have the obvious threat like Smasher front and center where everyone think they known the thread without realizing they been turned away from the mantis blade in the dark.
 
JayBA said:
Out of everything, this is the part I don't really buy. She had plastic surgery two years ago, has a job that has plenty of interaction with young males, and is better equipped than perhaps anybody in the world to recognize the physical signals of attraction.
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I guess the super-antidepressants weren't as powerful as I thought? Chibi-Chirugeon does need her to be her creative, vicious self.
 
Akasha said:
What is the relationship between Smasher, Blackhand and not-Bond?
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I'd think that saying Adam Smasher isn't that skilled is a bit inaccurate.

Adam and Blackhand is these character that is canonically considered as the pinnacle.

I think it's more accurate to say that Adam is a Brawler archetype while Blackhand is more Technical.

Sure, most of Adam's skill consist on utilizing his OP cyberware to overpower his opposition...

But it was still a kind of skill on it's own.

And the not!Bond definitely is using another set of skills that differ from both of them.
 
JayBA said:
Out of everything, this is the part I don't really buy. She had plastic surgery two years ago, has a job that has plenty of interaction with young males, and is better equipped than perhaps anybody in the world to recognize the physical signals of attraction.
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I think she meant 'compared to others'. High quality plastic surgery is dirt cheap in this world. Any random joytoy can look like an absolute goddess by our modern day standards. Compared to all those people, Taylor is actually kinda plain. Her biosculpt is not that extensive.
If someone specifically asks for 'a pretty girl', then Taylor probably shouldn't be their first, second or even a third choice (if she's even in the list to begin with). So that's definitely suspicious, from her perspective.
 
I thought that Taylor managing to call enough help for them to prematurely interrupt the interrogation was a very smooth solution to her not being found out. Their knowledge is now incomplete, but they think they know enough. They know about her believing herself to have superpowers, but they did not get into enough detail to find out she has actual evidence for that. They know she considers Danny and Annette her true parents, probably including childhood memories, without getting enough detail to figure out the switcheroo.

What I do not understand yet is that they know she got operations done two years ago that she already had done several years before that. That isn't just a major red flag. Unless cyber implants are known to just vanish randomly, this is a giant glowing neon sign saying "THIS IS A FAKE TAYLOR/CLONE". Did I miss that being addressed somewhere?
 
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