Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

Good to know, but the stuff you quoted is meant to be in-character speculation based off the data points they currently have as an attempt to reduce the headache of keeping Out Of Character and In Character information separate while planning/stunting, does the logic hold up in that scenario?

(Right, the Hotsuin part does make more sense that way; but hey correct conclusions from not-quite-the-right thought process, since Amu's base self is a Shadow and all)
 
Good to know, but the stuff you quoted is meant to be in-character speculation based off the data points they currently have as an attempt to reduce the headache of keeping Out Of Character and In Character information separate while planning/stunting, does the logic hold up in that scenario?
Yeah, I know. If Amu even remembers that conversation with Hotsuin, she'll be able to conclude that yellow eyes is typically a sign of insanity from that. She doesn't know it means "Shadow" (or "Velvet Room Attendant").

Meanwhile, with regards to Shadows being friendly - that was Ami who said that. Amu would have no clue what Ami is talking about, since she doesn't even remember her experience Dreamwalking. She still has no labeled examples of "shadows" to work off whatsoever. We'd need Ami here to tell her that the fox and crayon thing are called "shadows".

Until Ami tells everyone that Yui has one and that it is out of control, it's probably not possible to suggest administering the "anti-penumbrals" or any suppressant drugs without Midori looking at Amu like she's actually insane, yellow eyes or no.
 
"anti-penumbrals" or any suppressant drugs
Unfortunately, it is ...unlikely we have the correct suppressant on-hand given the empty column in the update (and if we did have the correct suppressant, why are we still in this situation)? Didn't think of that earlier though, it would be a fairly neat idea otherwise.
Wanted to use this to try and write Stunts and accidentally got yet another reason to call for help, talk about not quite the right thing lol
 
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Unfortunately, it is ...unlikely we have the correct suppressant on-hand given the empty column in the update (and if we did have the correct suppressant, why are we still in this situation)?
We did grab a few drugs, but who knows which ones are the right ones in this scenario or what the dosage is. Even if we did, we don't have Yui on hand to give them to. Still no clue whether the one strapped to the chair is the "real" Yui or just a lookalike.

It's possible that, if the crayon or clawed shadow was Yui's Shadow Self, we might also be able to get the same effect if we injected it with the drugs too.... but we also don't know which one is her Shadow, if either at all.

Though from Baughn's statements, I'm leaning towards it being the clawed one.
 
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I wonder what the skill for healing mental abrasion is. Probably Mind Control?
I think that's what Amu used to help pick pieces out of her own brain and put them back into Saaya, but that didn't entirely "heal" her. Got the impression most of the work was being done by the Humpty Lock and Saaya herself. And she was still missing pieces at the end of it.

If I had to take a guess at what skills would be necessary to do an actual, full-fledged healing procedure from Grade 5 Mental Abrasion in combat time....

Clairvoyance >4/Precognition 5 + Mind Control >4. Plus either Dreamwalking 2+ or spare Overgrowth.

Severe Grade 5 Abrasion means pieces aren't just disconnected, but missing. Not just fractured, but a "comminuted" fracture which is medical jargon for getting smashed into many small pieces. And in this case, some of those pieces also being flung out of the body to boot.

There's only 2 ways I can think of to get those pieces back.

One is to use post-cognition to see what the mind looked like before, which according to powers/feats informational requires Clairvoyance 4, since the mind is not physical (and even physical post-cog only starts being a thing at rank 3). Then use either Dreamwalking at a high enough level to be able to recreate the cognitive space/mass, or else directly sacrifice the user's own Overgrowth to supply the cognitive mass and convert it into a recreation of the missing pieces.

And then use Mind Control with enough fine control (probably needs 4+) to fit the recreated piece(s) back into place and join up the rest of the existing fractured bits.

The other way is to do the same thing, but using Precognition 5 instead of Clairvoyance in order to peek into alternate timelines where the target for healing didn't get mentally broken and then use them as a template to figure out what the missing pieces should look like.
 
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I've had issues with making my vote count properly before, with changes.

[X] Utau: That is quite enough. Lunatic Charm, Concert Mode.
-[X] Use Nero200's stunt
-[X] Use Strings & Songs
-[X] Use 2 WP

Does that work?
 
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Could also work, if Illusion at 4+ allows for cognitive mass to be created from scratch. I just have this bad feeling that Illusion actually works in the opposite direction and takes "spare" cognitive mass and turns it into physical stuff.
Illusion isn't capable of creating anything cognitive, unless used in conjunction with Dreamwalking; where it's the Dreamwalking skill supplying the raw material. I'll add those two to the informational later.

Using your own Overgrowth would be like tearing off your own fingers, and would be far too painful to ever happen by accident. Most people would be unable to do it on purpose.
 
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Uh, you really want to try a Difficulty 5 stunt?

Even with 12 dice that's barely over 50%.
My understanding is that Difficulty 5 is to thread the needle on triggering the world to rerun PersonaDungeon.exe, without Utau imposing her own design on things, which is Strings.

I'm fine with either Utau managing to kick off the reset, or just fixing it in her own way with Strings, which is presumably lower DC.

A check on that Baughn?
 
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I wonder if Biokinesis 5/Medicine 4/Lore 3 would suffice to make an Exterior brain to process these information for you?
It would probably be better to create something out of cognitive matter for such a thing, as that would better link up with ones overall mind structure and interact far more easily with the Overgrowth which is also made of that. In which case Dreamwalking and Mindcontrol and possibly a specialization for Mindcontrol in the Mindhealing/Mindcreation range would be the most relevant.

The only issue with doing something like that is that potentially you'd no longer be considered fully human anymore then... or maybe you'd just about manage to squeak through. You'd definitely be on the way of being more of an edge case though.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Baughn on Feb 21, 2024 at 6:20 PM, finished with 195 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] Utau: Ask for help
    [X]Utau: That is quite enough. Lunatic Charm, Concert Mode.
    -[X] Use Nero200's stunt
    -[X] Use Strings & Songs
    -[X] Use 2 WP
    [X] Utau: Ask for help
    -[X] Check how long it's been since the last report to Tsumugu and send Midori back out to give him another update.
    [X] Amu: Tear down the place
    [X] Utau: Ask for help
    -[X] Unless Ami/Hikaru gives an option significantly different from what's been presented, move on to non-lethally disabling the Shadow and then slowly taking it apart for parts (again, unless Ami objects)
    [X] Utau: Ask for help
    -[X] Go with Midori's idea, but go non-lethal in case Yui shards are in there
 
"Yep!" said Mariko cheerfully. "She wasn't happy with the chairs, you see. Too tall, all of them. So she stared at the air for a while, and then there was this flash of light-" Mariko's voice trailed off. "Honestly it's weird, Aubertin-san. None of our detectors picked up anything, but there it was. Right in front of her." She coughed, suddenly embarrassed. "And nobody wanted to poke the bear, so when her parents came back she was napping on top of it. It disappeared when she left, but two days later she did the same thing again, and that one stuck around. Though that was right before the doctors decided her sister was fine, so she never had a chance to use it."

Rosaire gave the innocent-looking bean bag another look; her brow furrowed. "That sounds..." he began, trying to think of a word that wouldn't be too worrying.
Small child. Seven years old. No equipment. No materials. Not even a gesture. Conjuring objects on pure instinct and self-training. Slipping right past every ward, detector, or alarm. On a whim.

Because she wanted a better chair.

People probably panicked a little. Somebody probably had to go make sure the detectors weren't compromised, since they didn't pick up anything. It'll take a while before people get used to the idea that these kids can just do this kind of thing.
 
Persona/Shadows theorycrafting:
-Children do not have a distinct Shadow Self/Persona yet, they're still figuring out what part of themselves to present to the world or to suppress.
-Parts of this activity forms partial-Shadows(rather than a whole other self its just unordered dreams, aspirations and fears), but while they very much exist, most children simply lack the psychic Oomph to allow them to do anything even with the whole of their self behind it, nevermind the fraction of a fraction that these represent. Most of these eventually get discarded into the Collective Unconsciousness where their individual identity melts away and they blob into broad common archetypes to have the strength to do anything, but without the individual bits they just kinda float around without purpose unless forced to manifest.
-As they mature and form distinct Shadow/Persona partition as a teenager it has reached the point where the Shadow has a large enough partition of their full self that they can do stuff on their own...but they can't because its wrapped up in the rest of their self identity.
-Each of the Persona plots then is to find a weak point in their self identity(very common in teenagers!) and then pry a metaphorical hole open. The Shadow emerges. As the Shadow has no common sense whatsoever it doesn't avoid using the psychic powers the person has the potential for. Once resolved and restored to their identity they can then wield their psychic powers via the integrated Shadow.
-The Shugo Chara side meanwhile starts with children too young to have distinct Shadow Selves and solves the problem from the power supply end, pumping Overgrowth in until the fragmentary proto-identity elements form Charas to hold that extra large soul. The cleave lines are a lot less clear compared to Shadows, since the kid is all mixed up anyway, so the Charas tend to be better adjusted than the thorougly suppressed/rejected Shadows, if still obsessive and distractable.
-There isn't really much of a clear cut line between Shadows, Charas and Humans, Humans just have all the bits. A Shadow or Chara that acquires those bits can be human(and have Shadows/Charas of their own if they have enough soul to go around.

Tldr- Amu is all mixed up when she got so much innate Overgrowth that when she wanted to be four different persons she had the oomph to BE four different persons, and they exploded off her soul surface, taking off almost all her facades with them, leaving her as herself a mixed up Would Have Been Amu's Shadow But Is Just Amu
 
obsessive and distractable
Depends on the chara! "By default"... no, not even really that; it's barely a fifty-fifty mix.

Kiseki and Yoru, as well as most of the non-main-character charas, certainly seem to be this. They're monomaniacally focused on their specific theme, and don't really act outside it. That might have been a lack of screentime, but Kiseki gets plenty and doesn't change much.

Eru's a weird case. She starts out that way, but gets so much negative feedback she starts pushing outside her role just to get some results. So that's possible, but I imagine that most charas in her position would disappear instead. Utau still wanted Eru, despite thinking of her as useless... though admittedly that's mostly Iru. They've landed in a much better balanced situation, it's just that modern-day Eru acts relatively little like her 'role' would have her act.

Iru, it's hard to say. Her focus is 'rebellion', sometimes against herself; her lack of predictability is part of her base character. She's far, far nicer than she used to be. I'm projecting her line of development throughout the manga, and landing at "similar to Utau, except cheekier".

...

Nana -- Lulu's chara -- is a bit of a weird case. Scratch that; she's a completely upside-down case. Lulu wants to be an elegant lady, with straight hair and refined language and- Nana is the exact opposite of all of those things. She is, explicitly, the side of Lulu that Lulu tries to suppress.

Her eyes are blue, which is a bit of a pity. Though she's just copying Lulu.

But besides being an unusually sane shadow-self, Nana is also Lulu's sounding block. Lulu knows, on some level, that Nana is a genuine part of herself. They're brought into the story well after they've grown used to each other, so we don't know how that relationship started, but I imagine there was some attempt at rejecting reality in there. Though Lulu, considering her family, wouldn't have gone through anything remotely like the common case.

Nana is a very noncentral example of a chara, and might not count as one at all. In the present day she also doesn't exist, however; Lulu accepted her, and as such she... 'disappeared' isn't right; Amu was talking to her on the phone the other day.

...

Ran, Miki and Su were very much people by the end of the story, and Miki already acted that way right from the start. In her case, that's again a response to negative feedback; Miki nearly died right out of the gate, being a side of Amu that... honestly? Amu doesn't really want. Still is a side of her, but externalising it as a separate person seems fair, and probably healthier than making her a Shadow. Which might be where that would have otherwise gone, if the rest of the situation wasn't such a mess.

Amu spent more than one evening just quietly chatting with her sisters, while Su tried to learn sewing, Ran read manga next to Amu and Miki sketched the scene... that's on-screen. I don't think it's the default behaviour for charas, but it is what Amu wanted.

Miki didn't disappear, however. Because she informed Amu of the situation, and Amu -- being Amu -- determined to keep Miki around and... at least try to be that sort of person. It worked well enough to fool the system, I suppose, even if Amu never actually wound up taking on any of Miki's character traits. That didn't work forever, but by the end of the story Amu was capable of going "nuh-uh, I'm keeping them", and having that stick.

(At what cost to herself?)

The same is true for Eru and Iru, really. For Utau it's more of a balancing game; she literally isn't capable of becoming both of them at once, but probably the natural outcome for a situation like that is still to have one or the other fade, then fuse with the second. She refuses; Utau likes to keep the two around, as something between familiars and friends.

...

There is no one-size-fits-all template for charas. We've seen everything from "might as well be a shadow" to the exact opposite. We've seen charas reflecting dreams that are literally impossible, charas reflecting dreams their host had essentially already achieved, and everything in between.

This should be expected. They're the product of a literally intelligent process, and no two minds are ever alike.
 
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