Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
It shouldn't be. All you need to do is spot the forest fire and then ignore it.
Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]
- Thread starter Baughn
- Start date
- Crossover
Ugh. Crap. This was supposed to be Severity: Low.
Welp. Moving on. We should probably get a training vote started some time soon. Did you decide on XP payouts?
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Forest fires can be pretty, at a distance! ... and you're taking me too literally. "It shouldn't be" was the truthful part of that sentence.
I'll get the XP sorted tonight.
- Location
- Laniakea
Is there any point in doing a new training vote right now when Amu hasn't even gotten a single level in anything we previously set her to start training?
Our other characters can start training, and we may want to adjust Amu's training for improved efficiency. (That school slot isn't getting an overlap bonus.)
- Location
- Laniakea
But are any of the skills we want to train even capable of making use of school hours?
I seem to recall a headache of a discussion where it was decreed that Amu must focus on class during school, making it nigh-impossible for anything except Awareness to be properly trained during those hours. Not even Lore could get away with being trained in that slot.
I seem to recall a headache of a discussion where it was decreed that Amu must focus on class during school, making it nigh-impossible for anything except Awareness to be properly trained during those hours. Not even Lore could get away with being trained in that slot.
We are training Lore in that slot - that and Illusion. The slot represents the amount of time Amu can manage to squeeze out during school even with the restrictions she's operating under. We're not getting an overlap bonus because Baughn didn't rule the Lore/Illusion overlap stunt as granting a bonus, and we can't train Dreamwalking or Integrity in that slot.
Awareness/Lore was ruled as a valid overlap, and it's possible we might even be able to squeeze in extra hours with Awareness training - Awareness training doesn't give off the impression of not paying attention. If you're not interested in Awareness, we might be able to come up with other options, but I think Awareness should be useful.
- Location
- Laniakea
Would depend on how many extra hours having Awareness can actually open up.
If we are assuming each skill gets evenly trained for roughly 2 hours a day, we'd need to unlock 1 hour and 20 extra minutes per day to break even on it, otherwise it will slow down the training on all the other skills we currently have lined up. And that's assuming we get the maximum 50% overlap on it (i.e. 80 minutes of Awareness training at school also contributes 40 minutes to the combo'd skill, making up for 40 minutes outside school that now also gets eaten up by training Awareness).
Though I guess if we do unlock that much, taking Awareness would basically be free outside the XP cost.
EDIT: Looking back, it seems our current schedule actually gives us only 4.5 hours a day to train (1 at school, 2 after, 1 in the evening and 0.5 at night). So assuming it gets evenly-spread out, we're currently looking something like 1 hour per day for each of our 4 current in-progress skills (Integrity, Illusion, Dreamwalking, Lore). That means if we can get Awareness to open up roughly 40 minutes on a max overlap stunt, it should be able to break even (or more time for a less-than-max overlap stunt).
If we are assuming each skill gets evenly trained for roughly 2 hours a day, we'd need to unlock 1 hour and 20 extra minutes per day to break even on it, otherwise it will slow down the training on all the other skills we currently have lined up. And that's assuming we get the maximum 50% overlap on it (i.e. 80 minutes of Awareness training at school also contributes 40 minutes to the combo'd skill, making up for 40 minutes outside school that now also gets eaten up by training Awareness).
Though I guess if we do unlock that much, taking Awareness would basically be free outside the XP cost.
EDIT: Looking back, it seems our current schedule actually gives us only 4.5 hours a day to train (1 at school, 2 after, 1 in the evening and 0.5 at night). So assuming it gets evenly-spread out, we're currently looking something like 1 hour per day for each of our 4 current in-progress skills (Integrity, Illusion, Dreamwalking, Lore). That means if we can get Awareness to open up roughly 40 minutes on a max overlap stunt, it should be able to break even (or more time for a less-than-max overlap stunt).
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- Location
- San Diego, CA
When you start to emphasize that people should vote on what people want to see and not what is the "correct" choice because the players won't get punished for voting that way, you get votes like this, where the winning vote can be considered less important than the more optimal choice. I live very much by, "If you promise to do something, you should do what you can to keep that promise as long as it is within reason." Amu promised her parents she will talk to Ami about how she should use her powers, so seeing that we hopefully won't get punished for choosing something else (beyond some minimal opportunity cost), I'm hoping to get this talk out of the way and fulfill the promise made.
Of course, there is a certain amount of trust that we are giving you that you, as GM, will not screw is over. We are trusting that by skipping over directly aiding the Yui plot we won't get punished with a bad end. Based on what I have read so far, it isn't likely to be an issue.
If you were a young child and was a natural lucid dreamer and could do so every night without much effort, I'd probably go on adventures in my dreamscape every night too (I was an avid lucid dreamer when I was in college). Since Ami's Akkun's self typically has a sword, she probably has had frequent dream adventures where she is a warrior princess and has to fight monsters in the dream that saw her as a deliciouis snack. She valiently fought them off and slayed them.
The real question is if those monsters she slayed while lucid dreaming are real or not. Given that there are apparently actual dangers in the dream world plus the actual dot in War Ami has, I'm leaning towards "yes".
Somewhat horrifying now that I think of it...
----------------------------
On the subject of dreamwalking and lucid dreaming, I wonder if we can have Ami and her family invest in some books on the subject. I personnaly learned Lucid dreaming from the books of Stephen LaBerge. Mom and Dad will likely never become dreamwalkers themselves, but Ami and Amu can guide Mom and Dad what even a zero point can do in their own personal dreamscape with enough experience (based on personal experience, quite a bit actually).
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- Location
- Laniakea
If they are anything like the ones Persona-users typically fight, the monsters are probably real and capable of eating you. They also probably don't stay dead and respawn periodically.
If Akkun is anything like a Persona-user, her cognition of being a hero complete with cape and sword likely makes her extremely effective against anything considered a monster, in the same way Persona-users can make fake guns shoot real bullets by believing hard enough.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Valid. I'm still surprised that it happened, because the optimisation seems almost automatic, but I'm not upset; it is what I keep telling people to do.
As for getting it out of the way… yes, that could happen. It's one possible outcome to the scenario, and it's going to be largely up to voter choice.
The math actually works out better than that. For a max overlap stunt (50% bonus), Awareness would only need to open up 20 minutes to not slow down the existing training. 80 minutes of school time * 1.5 from the bonus * 0.5 from splitting effort = 60 effective minutes towards each trained trait.
For a more realistic 25% bonus, Awareness would still only need to open up 36 minutes to not slow down existing training. There's also the benefit of Awareness 2 itself. Noticing things is useful.
I think it's easily plausible that Awareness training could open up more than 36 extra minutes of school time, but I don't know how Baughn will rule. If we don't get any extra time, and just get a 25% overlap bonus, then the benefit isn't as clear-cut, but Awareness is still useful.
@Baughn, would you allow more school training time with an Awareness vote?
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Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Awareness training is paying attention to everything around you, not just to class. I think it's less likely to make you look like you aren't paying attention, but it still isn't quite as good at that as simply looking at the teacher...
For the next training vote, whenever we decide to do that, I think I'll let you vote on how much time to spend. Instead of Amu deciding she definitely needs not to look like a delinquent... after everything she's been through? It's reasonable for her to decide that training is more important than school.
So instead of answering your question directly... you can expect to get multiple options of slot sizes, with consequences included. If you want to spend four hours per school day training Awareness, you can. It's not going to be great for Amu's reputation... but you can.
XP calculation (Arc 2)
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Amu:
= 9 XP banked
- 7 XP earmarked for training. (Dreamwalking 2, Illusion 2, Integrity 3, Lore 1.5)
= 2 XP prior to this arc. 1 XP of this is moved to the common pool.
+ 3 XP (Rescuing Kana, including prelude.)
= 4 XP (new total)
Utau:
+ 1 XP (Touching the Key)
+ 2 XP (Rescuing Kana)
= 3 XP
Ami:
- (Ami is already training dreamwalking and melee, and has paid for that.)
+ 1 XP (Rescuing Kana)
= 1 XP
Miki:
+ 2 XP (Becoming Miki)
= 2 XP
Kana:
-1 XP (Rescuing Yui...)
= -1 XP. Yes, she's in XP debt.
Midori:
+ 1 XP (Rescuing Kana)
= 1 XP. Not that she can do much with this.
Pool:
+ 1 XP from arc 1 Amu
+ 3 XP (Amu)
+ 3 XP (Utau)
+ 2 XP (Miki)
+ 1 XP (Midori)
+ 1 XP (insight bonus)
= 11 XP
Per-character XP rewards are halved relative to the previous arc, inasmuch as half of it lands in the pool. You can apply that to anyone, though any usage of pooled XP implies the kids are helping each other. A terrible fate, I'm sure.
In addition, Utau, Ami, Midori and Amu all gained the equivalent of twelve hours of Dreamwalking training time... assuming they can make use of that.
= 9 XP banked
- 7 XP earmarked for training. (Dreamwalking 2, Illusion 2, Integrity 3, Lore 1.5)
= 2 XP prior to this arc. 1 XP of this is moved to the common pool.
+ 3 XP (Rescuing Kana, including prelude.)
= 4 XP (new total)
Utau:
+ 1 XP (Touching the Key)
+ 2 XP (Rescuing Kana)
= 3 XP
Ami:
- (Ami is already training dreamwalking and melee, and has paid for that.)
+ 1 XP (Rescuing Kana)
= 1 XP
Miki:
+ 2 XP (Becoming Miki)
= 2 XP
Kana:
-1 XP (Rescuing Yui...)
= -1 XP. Yes, she's in XP debt.
Midori:
+ 1 XP (Rescuing Kana)
= 1 XP. Not that she can do much with this.
Pool:
+ 1 XP from arc 1 Amu
+ 3 XP (Amu)
+ 3 XP (Utau)
+ 2 XP (Miki)
+ 1 XP (Midori)
+ 1 XP (insight bonus)
= 11 XP
Per-character XP rewards are halved relative to the previous arc, inasmuch as half of it lands in the pool. You can apply that to anyone, though any usage of pooled XP implies the kids are helping each other. A terrible fate, I'm sure.
In addition, Utau, Ami, Midori and Amu all gained the equivalent of twelve hours of Dreamwalking training time... assuming they can make use of that.
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- Location
- Laniakea
So, uh, what does XP debt entail, exactly?
Losing levels in skills/abilities?
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
It means she's struggling to get back to where she was, and won't be able to train anything new without first paying off the debt. To a degree you're right, but only in terms of fluff. There's a few rare effects that can cause this, but it's not generally worth trying to simulate brain damage in more detail than that.
Roughly speaking, this is what grade two mental abrasion looks like. Kana will recover without any lasting damage, which is extremely abnormal by regular standards.
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By standard Exalted 2e rules, it'd mean half of any XP they gain goes toward paying off the debt, until it's paid off. Looks like Baughn's handling it differently.
So just a standard arc's worth of XP, rather than the 2 arc's worth we got for arc 1.
Too bad we don't have any Clairvoyance dots. I want Clairvoyance, but our schedule is just so packed...
An Awareness/Clairvoyance vote sounds like the kind of thing that would get the full 50% overlap bonus, and would have relatively minor social impact - Amu would still be looking at the teacher, or whatever else she's expected to look at at the time. She'd just be doing her best to look at other things with her powers at the same time. Trying to add that in now would bring us up to 6 simultaneous training actions, though, and would eat up most of our remaining time.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
I just don't want to unnecessarily deal with half-points of XP, and it's a single point debt.
Oh, sweet. Those are some decent boosts. Means we might have to come up with some new overlaps earlier than expected, though - 12 hours is a full quarter of the way to Dreamwalking 2, and our biggest current overlap bonuses all use Dreamwalking.
- Location
- San Diego, CA
When it comes to training, my first thought is to mirror what Ami is doing at the moment:
Shirogane is clearly Ami's teacher in how to handle the dream world. She taught Ami on how to navigate the dream world and some basic lessons in fighting. We can ask Shirogane sensei for further help in dream walking and how to not freeze up in combat. We will probably need to know that when Amu inevitably crosses paths with Manticore again.
EDIT: I don't know if this has been answered already, but does mastery of dream walking grant the user the ability to practice/train while asleep?
Shirogane is clearly Ami's teacher in how to handle the dream world. She taught Ami on how to navigate the dream world and some basic lessons in fighting. We can ask Shirogane sensei for further help in dream walking and how to not freeze up in combat. We will probably need to know that when Amu inevitably crosses paths with Manticore again.
EDIT: I don't know if this has been answered already, but does mastery of dream walking grant the user the ability to practice/train while asleep?
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- Location
- San Diego, CA
So, I guess then that akkchan side of Ami got Melee and War 1 from the the same place that Chara's get their skills? Fair enough.
Man, imagine if we could get that repeatedly. Poke. Poke. Poke.
That "something" would be the part where she referred to the Ami at home as a separate person.
I think it's only a matter of time before Midori volunteers to try to "learn how to hug someone right". She values her kids far too much to permanently close herself off from them like that. She won't be hugging the same way Ami would, and probably not even the same way the non-psions in Ami's class would participate in a mind-hug, but she's not going to shut Ami out forever.
...I think I might try writing an omake about that.
- Location
- Laniakea
I'm doubtful she has any levels in either ability herself - Naoto's usual weapon in the cognitive world is a gun and like the rest of the Investigation Team, typically leaves all the tactical decisions to Narukami. If there's anybody who has levels in Melee and War, it would be Narukami though who knows whether he has them at level 3.
Would it be a valid stunt for Awareness + Integrity if Amu repeatedly externalized her Charas in class, got them to pay attention to things around her while she tried doing the same, periodically recalling them and synchronizing memories to compare what she missed while she was splitting her focus on keeping her Charas externalized?
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
That will work, but might have side-effects. You might like the side-effects.