Since Manticore openly have armed men with sniper rifles and night vision gear, whatever they present as to the government must at least be military or para-military in some regard. On balance, I think that makes it likelier than not that any psionic research they are doing is at least an "open secret", if not fully open.
Not mention, we know that in the original plan for the Scavengers, JPs would've gotten called in by Manticore to help hunt them down. So whoever Manticore are, they have enough pull to be able to request help from JPs and for JPs to trust them enough to lend agents to their hunt. Bit more difficult (not impossible, but more difficult) to be able to do that, if any supernatural research they were conducting was being kept under wraps.
Yeah, but is the deadline the few hours it would take at worst for Ami/Hikaru to arrive? (1 hour or less is more likely IMO)
Since if they were to actually take a day to come here, I think we'd get an interrupt called "keep waiting y/n" since all three present here are not willing to go home and come back another day?
The fact that we only got a "dungeon name" (Abandoned Laboratory) when stepping through the black crayon door makes me suspect that what we've been seeing so far might not fully be Yui's cognitive domain, but more of a "public space" like the general TV world space in Inaba outside of people's individual dungeons. Making the "Abandoned Laboratory" Yui's specific cognitive domain. And that there might be other doors elsewhere further in leading to other domains specific to the other Scavengers.
The counterpoint to that theory is, of course, the fact that the fog itself feels like Yui being "all around".
That could be reconciled by assuming the fog is Yui's, but it's just an "entry point" to the cognitive space that would still exist without the fog - but that's a more complicated explanation than just assuming the whole space encompassed by the fog is Yui's.
I don't think it would take even an hour from now. They are actually already en-route, Utau just needs to provide a beacon with Lightsmithing for them to find the right place.
I think it would actually take longer for JPs to arrive than for Ami to get here at this point.
The fact that we only got a "dungeon name" (Abandoned Laboratory) when stepping through the black crayon door makes me suspect that what we've been seeing so far might not fully be Yui's cognitive domain, but more of a "public space" like the general TV world space in Inaba outside of people's individual dungeons. Making the "Abandoned Laboratory" Yui's specific cognitive domain. And that there might be other doors elsewhere further in leading to other domains specific to the other Scavengers.
The counterpoint to that theory is, of course, the fact that the fog itself feels like Yui being "all around".
That could be reconciled by assuming the fog is Yui's, but it's just an "entry point" to the cognitive space that would still exist without the fog - but that's a more complicated explanation than just assuming the whole space encompassed by the fog is Yui's.
I don't think it would take even an hour from now. They are actually already en-route, Utau just needs to provide a beacon with Lightsmithing for them to find the right place.
I think it would actually take longer for JPs to arrive than for Ami to get here at this point.
I think that could make perfect sense with my earlier theory, to be honest.
The fog / house is Yui's broken domain.
The Abandoned Laboratory is Kana's Channel/dungeon within that, same as things worked in Inaba.
I still prefer trying to 'reboot' via Utau's concert-type abilities, to get this place running properly, rather than relying on Ami.
Ami's personality is very much not navigator typed, for what we've seen.
Hikaru might be though, he's got a history of doing the whole overlord thing with Easter.
That does mean traumatising the kids though, so trying something else first seems kinder on that front.
And Ami at the very least knows the term "shadows" + can recognise them and has a Dreamwalking (Navigation) specialty, which is more than we know now IC or can say with our present team lmao.
It's probable that this place isn't actually supposed to be like that, but ...so are the Reality Glitches not supposed to exist, and those are similarly out of our weight class?
So far I haven't seen any reason that we can't do that anyway after Ami arrives? (And she can Illusion up Loudspeakers for Equipment dice, probably)
And Ami at the very least knows the term "shadows" + can recognise them and has a Dreamwalking (Navigation) specialty, which is more than we know now IC or can say with our present team lmao.
It's probable that this place isn't actually supposed to be like that, but ...so are the Reality Glitches not supposed to exist, and those are similarly out of our weight class?
We could, but I'm just wary of waiting, and tbh of allowing Ami to start touching things. She's a rather impulsive child with a heavy focus on mind control.
There's a reason I'm trying to have Utau do the reset, rather than Amu.
Providing a path to recovery, showing an example through empathy, is very different to the Himamori siblings heavy handed UMI.
Utau can show you how she feels, and push the 'volume' on that high enough that it causes you to feel the same, but Amu and Ami are more "We have decided you now think this" types.
The place seems to be trying to default to a set up like Inaba, that allows someone to resolve. The narrative themes leaking in from the CU are setting up a dungeon, showing the trauma, pulling on the targets. Even making shadows from them.
Reality Glitches like in the school are just holes in the world, I think.
We could, but I'm just wary of waiting, and tbh of allowing Ami to start touching things. She's a rather impulsive child with a heavy focus on mind control.
IMO, there is no better opportunity to observe Ami in her natural environment than now.
She has a mother, sister and Utau all there to hold her back if anything goes wrong. The cognitive domain, as much of a horror house as it may seem, also belongs (at least in part) to a child around her age. Not something like, you know, Rise Kujikawa's cognitive domain.
I feel like it's the perfect opportunity for everyone to see what Ami does and fully inform her family of the type of thing she gets up to when Dreamwalking.
I'm not confident "call every shadow in the place down on our position" actually leads to the intended "reset" outcome, and the whole "reset" concept seems pretty iffy to me in the first place. I'm currently leaning towards "call Ami and Hikaru".
I mean, yes, but it's not like Amu is any less impulsive from a certain lens?
@Baughn
Suppose we have the strategy of Mind Control 3 + Illusion 2 physical barrier/Telekinesis 3/Empathy, Performance and Lightsmithing blast holding down the boss monster and then getting Amu to take it apart as before.
Does Amu and co think this strategy is feasible? (It'd nuke our collective WP reserves due to opposed Psionic effects, that's for sure lol)
Additionally, I understand if you don't want to reveal Hikaru's character sheet until we actually vote for waiting for them, but do you mind revealing his Psionic "specialty" now? Thanks.
This is a point. I have a tendency to write her in situations where she's absolutely forced to be as responsible as she possibly can be, but it's worth noting that Amu is the same age--and not fundamentally more mature than:
Hikage, from Non Non Biyori
Akari and Chinatsu, from Yuru Yuri
Sakura, from CCS
Literally Everyone From Love Lab Oh God
Ryouko, from Machikado Mazoku
Kafuu Chino, from Gochuumon
...you get the picture. Or at least, if you watch as much anime as I do you'll get the picture, so I'm going to pretend that you do. In most stories she'd be the little sister character, and I am excited to report that she'll get the chance here as well! Eventually.
Suppose we have the strategy of Mind Control 3 + Illusion 2 physical barrier/Telekinesis 3/Empathy, Performance and Lightsmithing blast holding down the boss monster and then getting Amu to take it apart as before.
Does Amu and co think this strategy is feasible? (It'd nuke our collective WP reserves due to opposed Psionic effects, that's for sure lol)
Additionally, I understand if you don't want to reveal Hikaru's character sheet until we actually vote for waiting for them, but do you mind revealing his Psionic "specialty" now? Thanks.
It seems a viable strategy as far as they're concerned. It would wipe you out, especially Amu, though putting more of the load on Utau should be viable now that she's seen it done once; that would come with the risk of taking longer to get started, however.
=
The reason you don't have Hikaru's character sheet is primarily that I need to finish writing it, largely because oh god; you'll have it in a couple hours. For the moment, the highlights:
- Way too much power. Hikaru has Overgrowth at 6 dots, Integrity at 1 dot.
- Telekinesis: 4 dots, specialising in raw power. He has even less fine control than Amu, and is in fact locked out from improving that unless he can either get his Integrity to 3 dots, or <REDACTED>.
- Mental range: 4 dots.
- Astral projection is a new trick for him, and he only has 1 dot in it. This primarily limits how carefully he can control any psionics used that way, and how reliably he can maintain the projection against any form of resistance.
- Teleportation: 0 dots, but he's aware it's an option, and can use astral projection as an anchor for that. Y'know, in theory.
- Empathy: 3 dots, projective only.
- Mind control: 1 dot, with a 2-dot specialisation in 'mind crush'. Uh... no comment.
Exact numbers might change slightly. No matter how you put it, Hikaru comes off as an evil overlord in the making. But Ami insists he's a nice kid, really, and seems relieved whenever he's talking to her. Possibly because then he doesn't need to walk on eggshells.
6?! Then he might have more dice for breaking everything than Utau in our situation, and I thought that was ridiculous to begin with (narrative notwithstanding)
Utau's primary motivation if she spots Hikaru will be to make sure he doesn't do anything. She's well aware of how destructive he can be, though then again, so is he.
More practically: He can make an attempt, but physical force is ill suited to that task.
Semi serious answer. He's a pretty decent nuclear option, and having him on hand does mean you don't need to fetch him if that becomes necessary, but we are talking about the BBEG of Shugo Chara. Ami is significantly more useful, in most situations.
Semi serious answer. He's a pretty decent nuclear option, and having him on hand does mean you don't need to fetch him if that becomes necessary, but we are talking about the BBEG of Shugo Chara. Ami is significantly more useful, in most situations.
Hikaru is, however more likely to listen. He's very aware of the damage he can do.
(We should get him to meet with Hotsuin at some point. Might make for a good role model.)
Hopefully none of this is to nightmare material for even younger kids... though maybe it would in some way be helpful for making Ami realize there are substantial dangers here and there.
Brute strength is one thing, but another reason is that he and Ami have a rapport going on of some kind. So they can be used to keep each other in check. If Ami decides not to listen to Amu for some reason, Hikaru might and then can stop her from doing something she shouldn't. And vice versa.
And then there's also the fact that, longer term, Hikaru might be able to do some digging into Manticore on his end, if he gets told about the Scavengers. Two of Easter's scientists (or ex-scientists, if they're no longer employed) apparently used to work for Manticore before they joined Easter. He might be able to shake them down for information, if we get the opportunity to suggest it.
The Scavengers don't like the government much, but we know Naomi was fairly dismissive of Easter and didn't think they were much of a big deal compared to Manticore. With Hikaru himself looking like he does, they're more likely to accept help from him than if we threw JPs at them. If only because they seemingly think he and his company are too toothless to hurt them much.
Kana has crushed the brains of men three times as big as Hikaru, they'd probably expect to be able to throw her at him if anything goes south.
Too bad for them, Hikaru knows that trick too. And can probably do it better.
You know... if there'd ever be a place to allow stunts to perform dramatic editing, it sounds like it'd be here. I wonder what sorts of details we could slip into the scene to help alter the narrative. (Might end up being written as an application of our 1-dot Illusion, though.)
- Telekinesis: 4 dots, specialising in raw power. He has even less fine control than Amu, and is in fact locked out from improving that unless he can either get his Integrity to 3 dots, or <REDACTED>.
Gonna guess <REDACTED> has something to do with his Heart's Egg.
I didn't want to bring in Hikaru, but now that he's coming anyway, it'd be a lot better to have him with us than to have him wandering around in the nightmare labyrinth unattended.
This is a point. I have a tendency to write her in situations where she's absolutely forced to be as responsible as she possibly can be, but it's worth noting that Amu is the same age--and not fundamentally more mature than:
Hikage, from Non Non Biyori
Akari and Chinatsu, from Yuru Yuri
Sakura, from CCS
Literally Everyone From Love Lab Oh God
Ryouko, from Machikado Mazoku
Kafuu Chino, from Gochuumon
...you get the picture. Or at least, if you watch as much anime as I do you'll get the picture, so I'm going to pretend that you do. In most stories she'd be the little sister character, and I am excited to report that she'll get the chance here as well! Eventually.
My inclination at this point is to hope Ami's knowledge of dreams extends to knowing something about what this place is. As it stands all the characters are operating completely blind.
Well, she is your dreamscape expert. Even if her preferred sort of place looks more like this:
The CU doesn't all look like a horrorshow. Ami wouldn't be so eager to drag Amu along with her if it did; nor in fact would she be so eager to go there herself. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of places which do, and she has at a minimum acquired the skill to avoid them... plus a few tidbits from mentors of various sorts. Hence her navigation skill, which is very intuitive... but remains applicable in almost every situation.
<Ami> There was a troll! He pulled me into a well!
<Ami> For tea and biscuits. I nearly turned him into a statue before he was able to offer some.
It would help if Ami wasn't the type to chase excitement.
Dreamwalking (Navigation) sums up as "Using psionics to make up for the lack of explicit occult knowledge that you would normally use to navigate the Dreamlands, avoiding and/or resolving traps."
However, perhaps that's the wrong way to think about it. Dreamwalking (Navigation) isn't knowledge, but it's the same type of skill that a minor goddess might have. The ability to see what's there, react in appropriate ways to it — and not get hurt in the process, not to mention.
It's Occult that's making up for the lack of this, not the other way around.
Four dots in Telekinesis is "Lift a building". Three is "lift a helicopter".
Three dots in Dreamwalking, even if one is a specialisation... won't normally be as dramatic, but should be no less impressive to someone who knows what they're looking at. Lulu, for example, who absolutely does not know that Ami has reached that level.
—
Seriously, don't underestimate her. At two-and-a-half dots Ami is already tearing open portals to the Dreamlands underneath the living room table, on screen no less. Sure it took her a while, and she was operating at the far limit of her ability, but you don't actually need to worry you'll be locked out of here either.
Every skill (and ability / attribute) scales up exponentially, of course. Ami is working on that third dot, and- well, if you call her here then... it won't be immediate, but she's definitely getting it. I think I mentioned this before: Mind-control is something Ami is talented at, but Dreamwalking is something she wants. A whole lot.
My inclination at this point is to hope Ami's knowledge of dreams extends to knowing something about what this place is. As it stands all the characters are operating completely blind.
She can do that? With... what, Illusion 2? Or Mind Control, somehow? At combat speed? Once again, it looks like my mental model of what should be possible with various psi skill ranks utterly fails to line up with yours.
However, perhaps that's the wrong way to think about it. Dreamwalking (Navigation) isn't knowledge, but it's the same type of skill that a minor goddess might have. The ability to see what's there, react in appropriate ways to it — and not get hurt in the process, not to mention.
I wonder if Cult dots do anything around here. (Besides, of course, the social implications.) With all the powers these characters have, it's entirely plausible that people might end up trying to pray to them, and it's entirely plausible that these characters could hear and answer a prayer.
She can do that? With... what, Illusion 2? Or Mind Control, somehow? At combat speed? Once again, it looks like my mental model of what should be possible with various psi skill ranks utterly fails to line up with yours.
Eeeh... keep in mind the example she's turning to stone is a troll. Could easily be she'd exploit an inherent weakness of trolls, or at least this one in particular, rather than being something she could just do to anyone. Or even "anyone in the Dreamlands."
Does he have access to the Telepathy-adjacent skills?
If he buys some Bureaucracy dots, Teleportation and Astral Projection dots he could be a very effective bodyguard that can assist in running the place he's bodyguarding ...and also be a walking on-command nuke through Mental Range/Telepathy.
...though Integrity is Priority 0, if we could find a 3 dot teacher for it and a reason why Hikaru would care about it now..
Bureaucracy dot time?
I don't think its a good idea to involve Hikaru in this (at least in that way), considering the warning that Manticore is outside Amu's weight class now (and more importantly, that even later dealing with them directly would be traumatising).
However, I think Hikaru would be more helpful in providing an example of someone escaping this sort of situation and being fairly stable? (And 'can survive whatever fun things they decide to throw at him out of trauma' is also pretty neat)
if there'd ever be a place to allow stunts to perform dramatic editing, it sounds like it'd be here. I wonder what sorts of details we could slip into the scene to help alter the narrative.
Only thing I could think of is making brighter crayon drawings to influence mental state indirectly, I don't think Illusion 2 is enough to convert a Mad Science lab into a Fun Science lab?
Agreed. However, in this context it makes sense, because CU is more malleable than the real world if you know what you are doing I would assume.
It would be a lot easier to align our mental models if we have concrete "you must be this many dots to pass (reliably)" examples for the Psionic skills though 🤷
Stunt wise, is "Illusion 2 a super dense material", "TK whatever to crush it into the smallest ball you can make", repeat until enough size is left for a projectile weapon and shoot at max force Railgun style?
(And does it eat a WP of the person using the Illusion 2 to generate material?)
So, by your reckoning would ShoukuSI have 2, 3 or 4 dots of Integrity?
First read through I'd say she had 3 dots because of her backstory + emphasis on Lines, but second read through points closer to 2 dots (meltdowns, and slowly recovering back to a 'better' mental age across the arcs)
When you say 5 dots Mind Control ~= Mental Out, do you mean Canon Mental Out or ACMI Mental Out? The lattter reads to me like 4 dots Mind Control + 2 dots Information Processing Specialty; while the former reads like 5 dots Mind Control (LoS + remote limited) + 2 dots raw power buff from Exterior.
Illusion: Dark Matter aside, what's the dot requirement for stuff like "the stuff in this area of space no longer exists", spatial alterations (creating a closed loop of space that has no exit and/or creating Escher-style mazes), or "there is nothing here in Ba Sing Se (esoteric senses aside)"?
Thermokinesis: I have no idea why we would ever care about this skill, short of using 4 dots to provide Area/Equipment denial via rapid temperature oscillations; lower dots seems pretty useless IMO.
That being said, isn't Thermokinesis 'just' Telekinesis applied at a ridiculously fine level?
Teleportation: Combat-viable Teleport should be 3 dots, but does that apply to yeeting opponents into the sky/ground? Is 4 dots sufficient to teleport attacks and/or small objects away, and/or to intentionally botch teleportation of an opponent?
Furthermore, is it limited by Mental Range / solid objects?
Nothing to ask for Astral Projection/Empathy/Clairvoyance/Precognition now, I don't understand them enough to even come up with hypotheticals for dot rating requirements lol. (This post took way too many lost drafts to finish :/)
Ami is, for better and worse, our current expert on Dreamwalking.
There's a reason I wanted her here before we went in. Baughn actually said he tried to write that in one of the earlier drafts but it didn't work well.
So we got horror. *smile*
Anyway, Ami is the only one with Dreamwalking in our current group, she's asleep right now which means its her Dream Self that's "awake" and responding right now, and she's the same age as Yui.
And all three of these kids are hilariously overpowered in some aspect(s) of psionics and need more psionic friends they can't accidentally mind-whamie.
The problems seem like they rather solve themselves here to me.
Again, the least of which is, we don't have Dreamwalking dots. We're in a cave without a flashlight, hiking without a compass, [insert other stupid to do idea here], you get the point.
Psionics are not just powers, but skills. The power is Psionics, the skill/instinct/knowledge is Dreamwalking, and we need that here and now.
Get Ami here, she can at least say "Wow, that's a fucking horrible idea" with some actual authority on the subject.
