Rosario and Joestar

GardenerBriareus · Jul 1, 2019

Cjdavis103 said:
Keep in mind that Jotaro is a squishy human whom can't use Harmon to defend himself from fire when using SP. even low power flames can seriously hurt him. What's more SP's range is just 5M (if that as it's still not 100% mastered) so if he decides to step back and keep AOE Fire attacking Jotaro he's screwed. SP can tank it no problem but Jotaro can't take it. Even just being 5 M away from him would probably cook Jotaro alive fairly quickly in his Super form.

This is actually a good point, but for me, it actually suggests that Jotaro shouldn't be fighting Kuyo at all.

Ultimately, the big difference here in our analysis seems to be about what "magic fire" means. On my end, I'm assuming it's somewhere between molten lava and thermite. In other words, even if Mizore cools it by a third, that just means that successfully dodging means we suffer second-degree burns all over our body from the heat of its passing, rather than our eyeballs exploding and the rest of us bursting into flames. Likewise, setting off the sprinkler system will do absolutely nothing to reduce its lethality, and probably just makes it worse because now there's an expanding cloud of superheated steam filling the battlefield.

To that end, I'd say that we stay well the fuck away from this fight, and we bet everything on Inner Moka being able to take him down.

Cjdavis103 said:
Yukari and Kurumu I agree they have no part in this fight. Kurumu should be able to solo the chaff by charming the crowd . But Moka/Vampire boosted Tskune (they're more or less the same in fighting power ) might be busy dealing with the chaff from the student population.

It's something and when your dealing with absurd levels of heat even a little bit helps. This may be Rosraio but it's also still JoJo's bizarre Adventure. Useing the environment to gain an advantage is a fundamental part of any fight. In this case using the environment to allow Jotaro to survive long enough to punch his shit in with star platinum.

Given your analysis, my approach would be that Jotaro handles the chaff alongside Kurumu & Mizore, and Inner Moka/Ghoul Tsukune go to work stopping Kuyo from killing everyone. Anyone other than them who tries to close with Kuyo is just going to get killed.

Stormgear · Jul 1, 2019

GardenerBriareus said:
Ultimately, the big difference here in our analysis seems to be about what "magic fire" means. On my end, I'm assuming it's somewhere between molten lava and thermite. In other words, even if Mizore cools it by a third, that just means that successfully dodging means we suffer second-degree burns all over our body from the heat of its passing, rather than our eyeballs exploding and the rest of us bursting into flames. Likewise, setting off the sprinkler system will do absolutely nothing to reduce its lethality, and probably just makes it worse because now there's an expanding cloud of superheated steam filling the battlefield.

Eh. Jotaro fought through Magician's Red within days of manifesting Star Platinum, I think he should be fine.

SpiritualSlacker · Jul 1, 2019

GardenerBriareus said:
Given your analysis, my approach would be that Jotaro handles the chaff alongside Kurumu & Mizore, and Inner Moka/Ghoul Tsukune go to work stopping Kuyo from killing everyone. Anyone other than them who tries to close with Kuyo is just going to get killed.

Unfortunately we're probably not getting Ghoul-Tsukune yet, even if Moka gives him her blood. At least in the manga Tsukune became a ghoul through long-term use of Moka's blood. Before that, Moka would just give him her blood if he was hurt (or when he felt he had to protect her/their friends in a, in my opinion, misguided attempt at nobility), which unfortunately also reduced Moka's power temporarily. So in a fighting situation we'll only get either Inner Moka or Tsukune 'roiding out on vampire blood, not both.

Although, given the situation, it might be good to have Moka give Tsukune blood anyway, to "disprove" Tsukune being human.

JOJOBRN · Jul 1, 2019

I just found this quest, and after four hours of reading, I am now caught up. The writing quality, the way the two settings have been brought together, the characterization and pretty much everything else about this are great. I am also never going to read anything with invisitext on a smartphone again. Marking everything, then checking what is invisible and what isn't took at least another half an hour

Cjdavis103 · Jul 1, 2019

Stormgear said:
Eh. Jotaro fought through Magician's Red within days of manifesting Star Platinum, I think he should be fine.

Avdol was explicitly trying not to kill or permanently injured Jotaro put him in the hospital maybe burn him to death no.

Araki relized soon after making magicians red that it was way too powerful and hard to balance so he swore off fire based stands afterwards.

GardenerBriareus said:
This is actually a good point, but for me, it actually suggests that Jotaro shouldn't be fighting Kuyo at all.

Ultimately, the big difference here in our analysis seems to be about what "magic fire" means. On my end, I'm assuming it's somewhere between molten lava and thermite. In other words, even if Mizore cools it by a third, that just means that successfully dodging means we suffer second-degree burns all over our body from the heat of its passing, rather than our eyeballs exploding and the rest of us bursting into flames. Likewise, setting off the sprinkler system will do absolutely nothing to reduce its lethality, and probably just makes it worse because now there's an expanding cloud of superheated steam filling the battlefield.

To that end, I'd say that we stay well the fuck away from this fight, and we bet everything on Inner Moka being able to take him down.

Given your analysis, my approach would be that Jotaro handles the chaff alongside Kurumu & Mizore, and Inner Moka/Ghoul Tsukune go to work stopping Kuyo from killing everyone. Anyone other than them who tries to close with Kuyo is just going to get killed.

The problem with that is Tsukune is currently in fox's Hands Jotaro HAS to fight him at least for a time while Moka rescues him and gets him to remove her Rosary. Otherwise Inner!Moka can't come out to save our ass.

If the heat is as focused as your suggesting then I agree mundane sources will not matter and Mizore can safely go fight somewhere else. In fact if it is that focused then Jotaro could fight him and win.Stands can ONLY be harmed by other stands so SP doesn't give a damn about his fire and is fast and perceptive enough to block any of those focused attacks from hitting Jotaro. We could conceivably win that brawl so long as Jotaro keeps SP between him and Fox.

If it's like how I see it the Mizore and the mundane sources buy us enough time in the heat to allow Moka to rescue Tsukune.

But yeah I'm general I agree this fights not going to be Jotaro centric. The vampire/Vampire amped human are the only one who can survive a close in fight with him due to their Monster energy shields. Jotaro is quickly going to be reduced to throwing heavy shit really hard at Fox from a distance useing SP or useing Sendo Hamon to disrupt him from a distance.

karmaoa · Jul 1, 2019

Just as a reminder for everyone, we did a research action on werewolves and got a bonus against foxes from it,

EvaUnit01 said:
You spent several hours researching werewolves. Unfortunately, you don't know a whole lot more than you already knew or suspected, but every little bit helps. To offset that frustration, you looked up some other canid monsters since they were in the same reference book.

"Well," Tsukune says, "it's time. I guess we should get going."

You concur - time to get this BS over with.

and developed a Rippel move against heat.

EvaUnit01 said:
You spend the next considerable while training your Ripple in the woods, thinking in particular about potential foes with elemental powers. While Hamon is itself an incredible advantage against watery opponents, fire strikes you as a particularly fearsome adversary. With this in mind, you set about attempting to create a new technique that will give you an advantage.

With a tremendous burst of insight, you successfully create a new Hamon technique. Capable of assimilating environmental heat and converting it into Hamon energy, you have created Red Comet Overdrive!

Whatmesage · Jul 1, 2019

Now that's interesting. So, do we go Star Platinum meatshield, or try our luck with Hamon?

Not in Person · Jul 1, 2019

JOJOBRN said:
I am also never going to read anything with invisitext on a smartphone again. Marking everything, then checking what is invisible and what isn't took at least another half an hour

I understand that feeling, at least partially. After reading another thread like this, I started checking my own posts for invisitext.

EvaUnit01 · Jul 1, 2019

Not in Person said:
Aren't you calling the students to do essentially the same thing, sem-pai?

Is it or is it not possible to defeat him with just arguments in this situation? The impression I've got is that some sort of logic can make him decide not to kill a human, but it is also possible that this "logic" is just him trying to justify a decision he's already made.

There is one argument I can think of that would convince Kuyo to let Tsukune go without a fight.

JOJOBRN said:
I just found this quest, and after four hours of reading, I am now caught up. The writing quality, the way the two settings have been brought together, the characterization and pretty much everything else about this are great. I am also never going to read anything with invisitext on a smartphone again. Marking everything, then checking what is invisible and what isn't took at least another half an hour

Welcome!

GardenerBriareus · Jul 1, 2019

Cjdavis103 said:
If the heat is as focused as your suggesting then I agree mundane sources will not matter and Mizore can safely go fight somewhere else. In fact if it is that focused then Jotaro could fight him and win.Stands can ONLY be harmed by other stands so SP doesn't give a damn about his fire and is fast and perceptive enough to block any of those focused attacks from hitting Jotaro. We could conceivably win that brawl so long as Jotaro keeps SP between him and Fox.

My first concern is that we don't know if magical fox-monster fire counts as Hamon/a Stand for purposes of interacting with Stands. If it does... well, it probably wouldn't mean instant death unless "affects Stands" means "affects Stands as if they were flesh", but it would put some kind of limit on how long Star Platinum can keep punching Kuyo's fires away before it starts seriously hurting Jotaro.

My second concern is that the wonky ways Stands interact with physics and the mechanics of convective heat transfer might make it hard for Star Platinum to keep the superheated air washing off of Kuyo's flames from cooking Jotaro alive. However, I then realized that not only could Star Platinum just use a mixture of ORA ORA ORA and the Flash's arm-windmilling to redirect said hot air away, Star Platinum could just inhale the flames and the air around them, then spit it back in Kuyo's face; the canon fight against Justice demonstrated that it has Superman levels of lung capacity and inhalatory force.

Overall, you've definitely got a point that if the fire isn't supernatural enough to affect a Stand, then this fight becomes much more winnable.

Cjdavis103 said:
The problem with that is Tsukune is currently in fox's Hands Jotaro HAS to fight him at least for a time while Moka rescues him and gets him to remove her Rosary. Otherwise Inner!Moka can't come out to save our ass.

I assume there's some sort of magical reason why only Tsukune can take it off. Unfortunate.

EvaUnit01 · Jul 1, 2019

GardenerBriareus said:
My first concern is that we don't know if magical fox-monster fire counts as Hamon/a Stand for purposes of interacting with Stands. If it does... well, it probably wouldn't mean instant death unless "affects Stands" means "affects Stands as if they were flesh", but it would put some kind of limit on how long Star Platinum can keep punching Kuyo's fires away before it starts seriously hurting Jotaro.

My second concern is that the wonky ways Stands interact with physics and the mechanics of convective heat transfer might make it hard for Star Platinum to keep the superheated air washing off of Kuyo's flames from cooking Jotaro alive. However, I then realized that not only could Star Platinum just use a mixture of ORA ORA ORA and the Flash's arm-windmilling to redirect said hot air away, Star Platinum could just inhale the flames and the air around them, then spit it back in Kuyo's face; the canon fight against Justice demonstrated that it has Superman levels of lung capacity and inhalatory force.

Overall, you've definitely got a point that if the fire isn't supernatural enough to affect a Stand, then this fight becomes much more winnable.

I assume there's some sort of magical reason why only Tsukune can take it off. Unfortunate.

There are certain conditions that restrict who can remove Moka's Rosario seal.

It's less "only Tsukune can do it", and more "Tsukune is the only person known to consistently fulfill the requirements". The "consistently" bit there is key, as there have been some moments when even Tsukune couldn't remove it.

HymnOfRagnarok · Jul 2, 2019

Well, this is an interesting twist. I did like how Kuyo straight up admits he's letting Jotaro go on grounds of A. Jotaro keeping the secret because of Mizore, and B. being a relative of a certain Vampire Killer.

EvaUnit01 said:
If the murmuring masses knew you were pointedly and deliberately not charging second-year Jotaro Kujo with the same offense, they'd call you a hypocrite.

They would be mistaken. Your actions are completely in line with your ideals, which go directly against summoning an angry Vampire Killer to exterminate the entire student and faculty body.

Julius Belmont kicks down the door. "Surprise, motherfucker!"

Ah, if only.

Still, kind of interesting that Jotaro and Mizore's relationship is so well known and stable that Kuyo is essentially willing to bet on them lasting past high school, and keeping the secret for life.

Stormgear · Jul 2, 2019

HymnOfRagnarok said:
Well, this is an interesting twist. I did like how Kuyo straight up admits he's letting Jotaro go on grounds of A. Jotaro keeping the secret because of Mizore, and B. being a relative of a certain Vampire Killer.

Still, kind of interesting that Jotaro and Mizore's relationship is so well known and stable that Kuyo is essentially willing to bet on them lasting past high school, and keeping the secret for life.

That moment when you find out that your nemesis is shipping you and your girlfriend.

spudman · Jul 2, 2019

Was reading through the story again, including Q&A's, and a minor point I didn't care for occurred to me.

Namely, Joseph aging as in canon and not improving in Hamon, even though he was aware of other supernatural things being around. Eva gave their reasons in the yearly Q&A why Joseph didn't keep up the Hamon training (same as OTL), I get that, and the reason does make sense. But I still feel like it was a lost opportunity with this crossover. What could a Joseph who was more focused on his Hamon and/or Stand accomplish?

Oh, well. Like I said, just a minor point. And it's the QM's call, of course.

EvaUnit01 · Jul 2, 2019

HymnOfRagnarok said:
Well, this is an interesting twist. I did like how Kuyo straight up admits he's letting Jotaro go on grounds of A. Jotaro keeping the secret because of Mizore, and B. being a relative of a certain Vampire Killer.

Julius Belmont kicks down the door. "Surprise, motherfucker!"

Ah, if only.

~~in before it comes out that the Joestar bloodline is actually descended from the Belmonts by marriage~~

Still, kind of interesting that Jotaro and Mizore's relationship is so well known and stable that Kuyo is essentially willing to bet on them lasting past high school, and keeping the secret for life.

Not entirely sure how much I want to respond to that, for fear of tipping my narrative hand.

spudman said:
Was reading through the story again, including Q&A's, and a minor point I didn't care for occurred to me.

Namely, Joseph aging as in canon and not improving in Hamon, even though he was aware of other supernatural things being around. Eva gave their reasons in the yearly Q&A why Joseph didn't keep up the Hamon training (same as OTL), I get that, and the reason does make sense. But I still feel like it was a lost opportunity with this crossover. What could a Joseph who was more focused on his Hamon and/or Stand accomplish?

Oh, well. Like I said, just a minor point. And it's the QM's call, of course.

Joseph is still lazy and content to live a human lifespan, but unlike canon Oldseph (or instead, perhaps more explicitly in comparison to canon Oldseph):

This Joseph has had to come out of retirement to kick ass and not even bother with taking names at least a few times since his victory over the Pillar Men, so he may in fact have more battle experience than even canon Joseph does. (citation: the incident of '74, and other possible unknown occurrences)

EvaUnit01 · Jul 2, 2019

Finagle007 said:
Objection, Your Honor: Inflammatory one-sided argument. The defense will now present the rebuttal.

"Objection sustained!"

*bangs gavel*

"The Defense may, ah, proceed."

(working on the next post)

rikalous · Jul 2, 2019

Cjdavis103 said:
Idealy we'd move this fight inside and trigger the sprinkler system it will not do much but it's another debuff to his Firepower. And we'd get Inner Moka/vampire buffed Tsukune to come in part way though to tear him apart.

Wanna be real careful about setting off the sprinkler system in any fight where Moka's involved. Running water and so forth.

EvaUnit01 said:
There is one argument I can think of that would convince Kuyo to let Tsukune go without a fight.

Judging from his thoughts on Jotaro, convincing him that Tsukune's waifus are for laifu and he's not a security risk oughta do it.

EvaUnit01 · Jul 2, 2019

rikalous said:
Wanna be real careful about setting off the sprinkler system in any fight where Moka's involved. Running water and so forth.

Doesn't even have to be running water. If it's "pure" water, regardless of its kinetic status, even just a tiny amount of it can cause Moka excruciating pain and disrupt her powers.

Judging from his thoughts on Jotaro, convincing him that Tsukune's waifus are for laifu and he's not a security risk oughta do it.

Close, but not quite.

Cjdavis103 · Jul 2, 2019

EvaUnit01 said:
Doesn't even have to be running water. If it's "pure" water, regardless of its kinetic status, even just a tiny amount of it can cause Moka excruciating pain and disrupt her powers.

Close, but not quite.

Sooo she nearly kills herself every time in the shower?

Eh honestly he needs a beat down anyways. Any speech should be made at the crowd rather then him.

Honestly I'd just like to throw in his face something like

that this school works almost despite itself and people like him. If you asked Jotaro a descendent of JOJO what a Vampire was he'd describe DIO. Ruthless blood hungry and willing to torture and corrupt entire towns for their own enjoyment. He most certainly wouldn't have described a pink haired woman whom is the kindest person he's ever met whom starved herself to avoid hurting others. He wouldn't have treated a Succubus or witch much better. But now they're his friends and he understands them.

And if you told him before he came here he'd fall in love with a snow woman he'd have probably beat the shit out of you then laughed over your body. And yet here he is.

The entire point of this damn school is to learn how to coexist peacefully and it's actually working .

And Tsukune left the school freely already on break if he wanted to spill the beans why didn't he then?

If he wanted to "Protect " anyone he wouldn't have gone after the human whom hasn't hurt anyone. He'd have gone after the Human whom has hurt monsters to defend them from other monsters like the art teacher whom turned others to stone for her "Art"

He's not some " Nobel defender" of monster kind he just uses that rhetoric to justify his lust for violence the truth is he's just another evil ass trying to force his views on others to make himself feel better.

We're not talking our way out of this fight we're going to focus on changing everyone Besides the psycho in front of us.

EvaUnit01 · Jul 2, 2019

Cjdavis103 said:
Sooo she nearly kills herself every time in the shower?

Actually that gets addressed in canon; Moka, and presumably Vampires in general, use herbs and such to dilute the water's anti-vamp properties and make it safe for use.

.... pretty sure I even alluded to it in the first Moka Gaiden.

And Tsukune left the school freely already on break if he wanted to spill the beans why didn't he then?

Mild plot hole induced by the manga version having the SPC arc happen way earlier than in the anime, while I used the anime timeline.

You can certainly bring it up though.

RBomber · Jul 2, 2019

Cjdavis103 said:
Eh honestly he needs a beat down anyways. Any speech should be made at the crowd rather then him.

Honestly I'd just like to throw in his face something like

Nobody disagree Kuyou need facial reconfigurement. What everyone concerned is that 'can we really punch him without getting burned in the process' and 'can we beat the shit of him without collateral damage'.

Cjdavis103 · Jul 2, 2019

RBomber said:
Nobody disagree Kuyou need facial reconfigurement. What everyone concerned is that 'can we really punch him without getting burned in the process' and 'can we beat the shit of him without collateral damage'.

We're about to find out. If his fire is treated like magicians red ( which honestly isn't too far fetched) we should be fine and if Moka/Vampire amped Tsukune Tag In we'll be fine.

EvaUnit01 said:
Actually that gets addressed in canon; Moka, and presumably Vampires in general, use herbs and such to dilute the water's anti-vamp properties and make it safe for use.

.... pretty sure I even alluded to it in the first Moka Gaiden.

Mild plot hole induced by the manga version having the SPC arc happen way earlier than in the anime, while I used the anime timeline.

You can certainly bring it up though.

Ah forgot about that.

Seems like a legit hole in his narrative so yeah it's getting mentioned if we get the chance

HymnOfRagnarok · Jul 2, 2019

EvaUnit01 said:
~~in before it comes out that the Joestar bloodline is actually descended from the Belmonts by marriage~~

I mean. That is not at all without precedent. Belmonts got around with the various hunters of the night. They've got the same fashion sense as the Joestars and the Belmonts have only gotten more fabulous as the series goes on.

Also at least the recent Castlevania games are chock full of references to Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Like they're not even hiding it. You've got characters posing, a totally-not-Stand shouting ORAORAORA and punching enemies, the Stone Mask, and they essentially turn Dio into a boss. That's just the obvious stuff too.

rikalous said:
Judging from his thoughts on Jotaro, convincing him that Tsukune's waifus are for laifu and he's not a security risk oughta do it.

Yeah, Tsukune as A. still a security risk, B. a weak one, and C. Kuyo just gave a giant speech about how humans need to die.

If Tsukune gives up his humanity and lets Moka turn him, that'll probably be enough for Kuyo to save face in letting Tsukune live and resolve all of his problems. Especially if it happens in a big public show where no one can pretend it didn't happen, and he can appear magnanimous and not hypocritical in letting Tsukune go.

Cjdavis103 · Jul 2, 2019

EvaUnit01 said:
~~in before it comes out that the Joestar bloodline is actually descended from the Belmonts by marriage~~

Not entirely sure how much I want to respond to that, for fear of tipping my narrative hand.

Joseph is still lazy and content to live a human lifespan, but unlike canon Oldseph (or instead, perhaps more explicitly in comparison to canon Oldseph):

This Joseph has had to come out of retirement to kick ass and not even bother with taking names at least a few times since his victory over the Pillar Men, so he may in fact have more battle experience than even canon Joseph does. (citation: the incident of '74, and other possible unknown occurrences)

I was actually going to ask about that can you give me an example of something he'd come out of retirement for so I can do another Joseph centric omake?

spudman · Jul 2, 2019

Cjdavis103 said:
I was actually going to ask about that can you give me an example of something he'd come out of retirement for so I can do another Joseph centric omake?

He saves the world from a supernatural threat and fathers yet another illegitimate child along the way?

As for scenarios:

rogue pack of werewolves causing mischief/mayhem. Joseph applies newspaper, spray bottle, and Hamon.
aliens infiltrating influential companies/governments, planning an invasion. Joseph stumbles on it and foils their plans. Mostly by fumbling about.
angels vs. demons, heaven vs. hell. The usual war for souls, control over the timing and outcome of the End of Days, etc. Joseph is caught in the middle.
Joseph defeats an ancient/eldritch evil in Maine. Inspires a young Stephen King who was a bystander.
Joseph averts a ghoul/zombie apocalypse, inspires a young George Romero.
Various gods/creatures from various mythologies. Joseph casually meeting them, helping them (in conjunction with the Speedwagon Foundation) adapt to modern society, and occasionally busting heads when necessary.

Even odds he boinks attractive female allies/antagonists along the way.

Rosario and Joestar

Nurse God of Mischief

Goddess of the Hugs

Once Known as The Nobody

Kept you waiting, huh?

Kept you waiting, huh?

Let's Rock

Kept you waiting, huh?

Kept you waiting, huh?

Kept you waiting, huh?

Kept you waiting, huh?

Let's Rock