I think telling Shinji that Rei was about to kill his Dad might cause additional problems.

I was reading that as "Shinji is pissed at Rei choosing his dad over him" as much as "Shinji is pissed at Rei accusing his dad", and playing off the first.
(Edit because I can't seem to finish my thoughts atm): Shinji also already knows Rei was going to kill his dad. He was there when she said so, and talked her down; this is more for Asuka's benefit... though, maybe doesn't quite work.
 
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And on this point - trust is reciprocal. Asuka's breach of privacy shouldn't just be ignored, either.
Does Misato (or anyone outside Asuka) know about this though?

[X]Plan Truth and Reconciliation
-[X]Okay, we need to back up here and explain a bit more
--[X] When Rei mentioned she was part of a series of "Rei Ayanamis" and the 11th we have to talk about that. I don't know the details of how every past Rei's life went, but I can tell you that our Rei was seconds away from being killed and replaced by a "12th" Rei - one with her memories reset, the term "system restore" was used - all because Gendo and Ritsuko have been unhappy that she's been developing her own personality that doesn't include absolute obedience and deference to their orders. And I think you guys all remember the kinds of "orders" they've tried to give during our operations at times.
--[X] We're not playing the tragedy Olympics here, but imagine having to live under those conditions, knowing that not only are you probably going to be killed if you deviate even the slightest from protocol, but that you have been. Repeatedly. Even then, Rei tried in her own way - and no, I'm not saying that makes it all okay - to take that kind of risk to prevent a friend from dying too. I'm saying this because I'm trying to let you guys know just how fucked up this all has been and how that might scar someone.
---[X] Again, we're not competing here, but I think we all understand on some level how emotional trauma can mess you up and make you miss the important things sometimes, or twist what you think is important, or hell just give you tunnel vision where you don't see the things you should in the moment. It doesn't make it good, it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't mean you're inhuman either. It means you're suffering. Hell, is there anything more human?
---[X] Rei, I think I get that you were trying to find a way to thread a needle between the orders you have to follow and protecting a friend's life, but there's more than just a person's physical well-being to think about. There's their mental well-being too and that's important too. What you did may have protected Asuka physically, but it was a shitty thing to do to her emotionally - if your action hurts a friend, regardless of your initial intentions, it's right to apologize for that hurt. Was there a better option? Could any of us have done better in your position, given everything? Don't know. But that's what we're here for - next time, you can confide in one of us and we'll try to help you through it and come up with an answer that hopefully is better than what we could have thought of alone.

idk something like that? I tend to be wordy which is why I'm always reluctant to write up plans a lot of the time - feels like I'm writing a short essay when there's surely a more concise way to put it but...

(There's other stuff I'm omitting, like I was going to end it with Misato making a crack about "Oh, right. Speaking of confiding. The fact that this is still our Rei and not a replacement clone is a secret we can't let NERV High Command know or else they'll probably kill us all. Well, actually, they'd probably also kill us all for knowing she's part of a series of clones so really I guess as long as we act like things are like they always were it's all good!" but it's probably not quite the time for that - although it'd be a humorous way to end the conversation - but I didn't want to expand the focus of the plan past the core point(s).)
 
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(There's other stuff I'm omitting, like I was going to end it with Misato making a crack about "Oh, right. Speaking of confiding. The fact that this is still our Rei and not a replacement clone is a secret we can't let NERV High Command know or else they'll probably kill us all. Well, actually, they'd probably also kill us all for knowing she's part of a series of clones so really I guess as long as we act like things are like they always were it's all good!" but it's probably not quite the time for that - although it'd be a humorous way to end the conversation - but I didn't want to expand the focus of the plan past the core point(s).)
You know, sooner or later, someone is going to point out that we/Misato are putting Shinji and Asuka's lives at risk by letting them in on the secrets. :V
 
If we're going to lecture Shinji and Asuka about why Rei did what she did, we should probably also lecture Rei about why she should apologize anyway, or why she should have trusted Shinji, or something. Balance things out a bit, both in terms of not seeming like we favor one kid over another and in terms of pushing everyone's character development forward whether they like it or not.
 
If that's directed to me that's basically the last bullet point in my plan, directly addressing Rei and trying to give her an explanation on why everyone thinks she should apologize and telling her that in the future she should talk to one of us instead. I... don't really think I'm playing favorites here, I even made sure to per-emptively include that "no we're not saying what Rei did was cool" at points where I felt it could be uncharitably received that way by the others.
 
Does Misato (or anyone outside Asuka) know about this though?
You demand an explanation. Asuka gives it to you, relaying what happened to her while you were away in Matsushiro. How her work with Fuyutsuki made her suspicious of Rei, how she tested Rei's DNA and received a positive identification as Lilith,(...)
Considering above, they do. I assume that Asuka had to say something more than "I tested her DNA", or nobody would believe it.
 
[]Plan Truth and Reconciliation

I quite like this. No problem with the wordiness - if that's how to get the thoughts across, go for it.

Edit: That plan's now open so I'll vote it as well:
[X]Plan Truth and Reconciliation

If we're going to lecture Shinji and Asuka about why Rei did what she did, we should probably also lecture Rei about why she should apologize anyway, or why she should have trusted Shinji, or something. Balance things out a bit, both in terms of not seeming like we favor one kid over another and in terms of pushing everyone's character development forward whether they like it or not.

I could expand more on my own section there, though I will point out I tried to include this myself.
 
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Awaiting consensus on a plan because there's almost as many plans as there are votes. Please decide on a course of action soon.
 
[X]Plan Truth and Reconciliation

I like the points raised by the plan, if not the exact wording and somewhat combative tone it's presented in. The rhetorical questions in particular open up clear opportunities for Asuka to interrupt us with a variety of scathing retorts, such as denying Rei's humanity and vehemently rejecting the idea that she would have acted in a similar manner in Rei's shoes.

I imagine that Sutekh will probably paraphrase the points in a more in-character way, so I'll vote for the plan, but I'd like to say that the rhetorical questions are a really bad idea.
 
Awaiting consensus on a plan because there's almost as many plans as there are votes. Please decide on a course of action soon.
Well, we are in a difficult situation now...

[X] Plan Paradigm Shift
- [X] Blame Gendo for shitty orders, not Rei for following them.
- [X] Sympathize with both Rei and Asuka for having to deal with this crap. Must've been hard.
- [X] You're sorry for not noticing the problem and making the kids suffer through it on their own.
- [X] But if Asuka had come to you instead of plotting on her own, everything could've been much simpler. Asuka wasn't restricted by protocols after all.
- [X] Rei could've done it too. Even a hint, without revealing everything, would've been enough to get you to act and help.
- [X] Ask Rei if she understands why Shinji is upset. If she doesn't, make Shinji explain it once again. Ask her to tell Shinji how she feels about it after she understands.
- [X] Asuka has forfeited her right for apology the moment she hit Rei. They're even now. If she still wants her apology, she's apologizing for the violence first.
 
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Awaiting consensus on a plan because there's almost as many plans as there are votes. Please decide on a course of action soon.

Yeah this is partially my fault for waffling on my own; apologies.

I am also going to continue the trend of voting for a bunch of different plans at once, though I'll go back and edit out votes for the old versions of mine. Speaking of, this covers enough ground for me:

[X] Plan Paradigm Shift
 
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[X]Plan Truth and Reconciliation

I Like this one a lot more than Paradigm, as I feel it blatantly favors Rei.

And the whole have Asuka apologize for reacting as she did (as most of us would, I sure as hell would) to the confirmation that she was 100 percent gaslight, into believing that she is insane, by someone she considers a friend, and having one of the other few people you consider a friend used against you, to aid in said gaslighting is ridiculous.

To even say that they are even now ( like yeah Asuka, Rei gaslight you in a attempt to make you believe that you are crazy, also manipulated someone who else you consider a friend (and she supposedly does) against you in a calm, cool and calculated manner, to aid in the gaslighting, knowing full well what she was doing, and in the process hitting every major trauma wound and sore you have, but Asuka you slapped her, so yous even) is even more absurd, I mean like what??
 
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.....Has anybody considered just asking Rei why telling the truth - or at least asking Gendo for permission to tell Asuka and Shinji the truth - wasn't part of the 58 options she believed she had available to her?
 
.....Has anybody considered just asking Rei why telling the truth - or at least asking Gendo for permission to tell Asuka and Shinji the truth - wasn't part of the 58 options she believed she had available to her?
To be fair, telling pilots fighting angels, creatures seemingly dead-set in killing humanity, that their teammate is a human-angel clone-hybrid could have been reasonably considered a bad idea
 
Your post was about why telling other pilots that Rei is a angel hybrid was not amongst the 58 options that NERV instructed Rei to follow.
I doubt that NERV, as an institution, would have tailored their instructions down to individual pilots. And I doubt that Gendo, of all people, would have approved of that
That's why I said "or at least asked Gendo for permission". Because let's face it, Rei COULD have decided to ask Gendo for permission if she really wanted to.

She didn't.

That means one of three things. Either she didn't think of it (unlikely), thought it would just have made things worse (which we need to get her to say, if so) or just didn't want to go out of her way to try and accommodate Asuka's curiosity.

That last one is probably what Asuka believes to be the case.

If it was, Asuka probably assumes the reason for it would be because Rei thinks Asuka isn't worth her time. If it was, Rei's reason probably isn't that, but likely more because she didn't trust Asuka and expected that Asuka would use it against her and argue for her to be killed or something similar.

Which, again, we need to get her to say, if it was.
 
And the whole have Asuka apologize for reacting as she did (as most of us would, I sure as hell would) to the confirmation that she was 100 percent gaslight, into believing that she is insane, by someone she considers a friend, and having one of the other few people you consider a friend used against you, to aid in said gaslighting is ridiculous.
Asuka accusations about manipulation, dishonesty and demanding apology are rather hypocritical after she blatantly lied towards Rei just to breach her privacy (just typical things your friends do, right?), lied to the NERV staff, violated the highest security protocols to make an unauthorized research. Oh, and risked having her executed and Rei replaced.
Rei does not see why should she apologize, and I sure as hell wouldn't if I were in her shoes either.
But why?
We know Shinji wouldn't have cared.
We know this now. When Rei was confronted by Asuka she had not such luxury.
Also it is obvious that Gendo would not agree for anything, because the logical aftereffect of knowing about Rei's nature is the question "Why the half-angel hybrid was created by NERV in the first place? WTF Gendo?"
Asuka already asked this BTW, but this is a problem for another time.
 
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We know this now. When Rei was confronted by Asuka she had not such luxury.
Also it is obvious that Gendo would not agree for anything, because the logical aftereffect of knowing about Rei's nature is the question "Why the half-angel hybrid was created by NERV in the first place? WTF Gendo?"
Asuka already asked this BTW, but this is a problem for another time.
Nah, when Rei was confronted by Asuka she initially just played dumb pretended not to know anything. She offered her pills after a bit, but she only really went balls-deep on the gaslighting plan and roped in Shinji to fully sell the idea after the confrontation itself.

Instead of approaching Shinji, she could have gone to Gendo to ask permission instead.

This whole "obvious Gendo would not agree" thing, is actually NOT obvious to Asuka. Because the girl has an inflated opinion of herself, especially now she is also being given private lessons by Fuyutsuki. She'd expect to be important enough to warrant being told classified information. Especially since, as she said, she regards this information as being mission-critical and relevant to her duties.

We know exactly why Gendo would not be willing to tell (and possibly Rei might have the same doubts) but that is not something either Shinji or Asuka would be aware of. And they would have expected Rei to at least ask first. From their persepective, Rei wouldn't even lose anything by asking.

We know, based on OOC knowledge, Gendo might have taken the fact that Rei even asked as a problem and wanted to know why (and then might've done things to Asuka to shut her up, or told Rei to directly do things to shut her up). And Rei might suspect this too.

But they don't, and this information needs to come out of Rei's mouth.

Asking Rei directly why she didn't just tell them the truth or ask Gendo for permission to tell them is potentially one way to drag that information out of Rei.
 
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Nah, when Rei was confronted by Asuka she initially just played dumb pretended not to know anything.
Yes. I bet Asuka did not mention this.
This whole "obvious Gendo would not agree" thing, is actually NOT obvious to Asuka.
But is obvious to Rei.
Instead of approaching Shinji, she could have gone to Gendo to ask permission instead.
And ask what?
"Commander, the Second Child probably knows my angel origins. Should I confirm her suspicions? And what should I say to her if she asks why NERV even needs a half-angel hybrid? Should I tell them about the Scenario also?"
Seriously?
Sure, Rei probably could handle the situation in a better way, but asking Gendo was not it.
 
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Seriously?
Sure, Rei probably could handle the situation in a better way, but asking Gendo was not it.
Yes, seriously.

Shinji and Asuka do not know that asking Gendo is "not it".

To them, it would seem a perfectly reasonable course of action.

It would actually BE perfectly reasonable, if Gendo were a clean, upstanding and trustworthy individual and not planning to end the world himself. If he was really acting for humanity's sake, there is no reason why he would keep it from the other pilots when he knows it would lead to infighting.

Shinji and Asuka do not know that Gendo is knee-deep in crap. The only one in the room who actually knows the extent of it is Rei. Not even Misato knows his whole plan.

The only one who can really tell them about it is Rei herself.

That is, not even Misato knows the real reason why it would be "obvious" not to ask Gendo.
 
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[X]Plan Truth and Reconciliation

...though we will likely have cleanup to do about Rei wanting to murderdeathkill the world's 13th/16th (depending on just how many SEELE council members there really are) most eligible coffinstuffer (Shinji's father, obviously).

The other plan is so wordy that it would probably be condensed, possibly in ways we don't like.
 
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