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Rei Ayanami Raising Project

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@Dead Pann, your vote missed copying the initial bracket, [, on the [], so it won't be counted correctly until fixed.

I'm of half a mind to add clarification on the "Lean on military time" stuff with a "-- order her to stand down", as suggested.
 
Comrade Future said:
I'm surprised no one started the conversation with "Resign Pilot Soryu!" (or whatever phrase is used in English speaking armies) or something like that. I mean, here we could have started with the fact that we act according to Confucius and behave in accordance with our status and rank.
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For clarity, this is sort of what I'm going for with "lean on that time in the Army", though perhaps not articulated well. Might adjust tomorrow.
 
[X] Write-in: Give it a second, just to see if Rei says anything. If she doesn't, tell Asuka to let her up so she can talk. Lean on that time in the Army. If she doesn't, separate the two using the minimal amount of force you can.
-[X] If Rei then talks, let her speak. If not, tell Asuka that yes, she is right to be upset about this, and you're all here to talk this out. You won't let your wards hurt each other.
 
Sutekh said:
Shinji gives you a bewildered look, looking back and forth between you, Rei, and Asuka. He seems confused about why Asuka is there. It seems all your talk of romance might have primed him to think Rei's big secret involved her romantic interest in him. Oops.
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Rei is nowhere near confident enough to propose polyamory.

We deserved this.

Asuka reacts with confusion, and Shinji with alarm. He begins to bombard Rei with questions. Human cloning is possible? Is she one of those clones that has an expiration date like in sci-fi movies? What happened to the first ten Rei Ayanamis? Doesn't she have a bellybutton? Rei turns her intense gaze to Shinji and answers his questions tersely.
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Obviously, understandable question, what do you think, and science is weird.

Asuka shouts that she fucking knew it. She turns her attention to Shinji, who shrinks under her withering glare. She fucking told him so. And he didn't believe her! He called her crazy! Shinji looks around and stammers that look, he's really sorry, it's just—
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To be fair to Shinji, he only called you crazy because the things you said sounded crazy.
Asuka shoves you away with considerable force, nearly knocking you over.
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Ow! Look, you've gotta realize how absurd it sounded when you claimed Rei was secretly an Angel despite not looking or acting like one.


I don't think we have any good options, but we definitely have worse and less bad options. Throat-punching and "Let Rei explain herself and apologize if she wants to" and the like are worse options. Regardless of whether Asuka is seriously hurt or Rei actually apologizes, it's going to reinforce Asuka's notion that Rei's the favored child and Asuka's the redheaded stepchild. We've started to address that, but we haven't done that much yet. And "siding with Rei" in such a high-stakes situation like this will make things so much worse—maybe irreparable.

We understand why Rei did what she did, and maybe empathize with her a little. But Asuka would never accept "she's literally neurodivergent and a minor" as an excuse, even before this revelation.

[X] Write-in: Give it a second, just to see if Rei says anything. If she doesn't, tell Asuka to let her up so she can talk. Lean on that time in the Army. If she doesn't, separate the two using the minimal amount of force you can.
-[X] If Rei then talks, let her speak. If not, tell Asuka that yes, she is right to be upset about this, and you're all here to talk this out. You won't let your wards hurt each other.
 
Sutekh said:
It kind of is! Please condense a bit. From what I can gather, this option is more aggressively taking Rei's side on the issue, and trying to explain Rei's circumstances to Asuka, correct?
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Explain, yes -- and trying to do so in a way Asuka draws parallels to her own life... if things had gone even worse, and forces Asuka to face the fact that Rei is a person, somebody who cares about Asuka, not an enemy. I'm also trying to avoid having Misato take sides against Asuka, but rather firmly taking the side which builds a bridge of understanding.

...so, Shinji's preferred side, in a sense, haha!

Okay, I'll try to condense it a bit:
[X] Write-in: Order Asuka to stand down and let Rei speak uninterrupted. If she doesn't, separate the two using the minimal amount of force you can.
-[X] Let Rei speak. If she doesn't, or can't, tell Asuka that yes, she is right to be upset, because everyone here -- INCLUDING REI -- have been wronged, and you're all here to talk this out. You won't let your wards hurt each other.
-[X] Remind Asuka that Rei was attempting to *save Asuka's life*, and that the choice was between lying to you about extremely CLASSIFIED information and leaving you to rant to the wrong person and *die for it*.
--[X] Spell it out for Asuka: Rei cares about her. She made a difficult choice and had the spine to go through with it... despite it hurting both of you.
-[X] Address the accusation of Rei being an Angel, or a doll, by pointing out that an actual Angel wouldn't care, and would not try, especially after being *repeatedly murdered* at the hands of the closest living equivalent a *mother*, at the order of her own father figure. Frankly, you would've broken long ago.
--[X] Ask Asuka what happens when someone is constantly given agony, suffocation, no human comfort except from one person as a way of manipulating them, and reminders of capital punishment if they step out of line, during their formative years? Then ask Asuka what happens if their death simply means they're cloned and their memories poorly uploaded into a new body, so there's no escape. No reason to care, because caring about anything or standing up for yourself means your "mother" thinks you're unstable and kills you.
-[X] Help Rei off the floor... and hold a unopened, chilled beer to her head where it impacted the floor. Tell her to now tell them both about the other reason she was created with Lillith's soul... and Gendo's plan for her, and humanity, once the Angels are destroyed.

I guess we can put off the military-strategic bit until the next vote, but we really cannot afford Asuka running off half-informed *again*.
 
FourthWall said:
Someone beat me to the lesbian femdom joke :V
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It's a very obvious joke, especially when there are so many Asuka/Rei shippers in the thread.


Dead Pann said:
It's also not the sort of thing Asuka needs to force Rei to the ground for. It's not like Asuka would have admitted to being an Angel if Rei asked her.
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"Does Asuka deserve an apology?" and "Should Asuka practice her MMA on Rei without asking permission?" are distinct questions and should be handled as such, no matter how much Asuka tries to conflate them.
 
SpacePaladin said:
I do think that even if Rei thought gaslighting Asuka was the least shit option, she still owes Asuka an apology.
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Yes, Rei should apologize to Asuka, just to make things easier for everybody.

But does she owe Asuka an apology (or does Asuka deserve an apology)?
Honestly, she does not.

Asuka abused Rei's trust/ignorance, to make an intrusion into Rei's most private matters (the unauthorized using of NERV infrastructure is another matter, but irrelevant here).
Rei had full right to defend herself, in the matter she saw most appropriate.
This is of course assuming that Rei was actually gaslighting Asuka, not that she really assumed that Asuka lost it (and the things she said to Rei, are true only by coincidence).

TLDR: Asuka does not deserve more apology from Rei, than Rei from Asuka.
 
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TNO said:
But does she owe Asuka an apology (or does Asuka deserve an apology)?
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Well... kinda. The thing is, Rei actually did the thing Asuka's accusing her of, regardless of intent - and if we want the girls to try and have a healthy relationship that needs to be acknowledged in a way that allows Asuka to move past it. So, too, does the inverse - that Asuka put both their lives at risk with her stunt. Ideally this would be through calm and supervised conversation, but, well, we work with what we have.
 
VX-145 said:
The thing is, Rei actually did the thing Asuka's accusing her of, regardless of intent - and if we want the girls to try and have a healthy relationship that needs to be acknowledged in a way that allows Asuka to move past it.
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This is exactly what I said. Rei should apologize (or maybe acknowledge that she hurt Asuka with this), just to resolve the conflict, and not make this even a bigger clusterfuck.

But I perfectly see why she does not want to. And frankly, I fully agree with her, and I would not apologize either if I were in her situation (there is also the whole "Fuchs" matter, for which Rei probably has still some resentment towards Asuka).

Rei has as much right to demand an apology from Asuka, as Asuka from her.
But saying this aloud to Asuka will only make matters worse, so let's concede on this.
Of course, only after Asuka will let Rei go (either by her own will, or subdued/forced to do this).

BTW Unless Rei actually confirms gaslighting, the possibility of Rei actually thinking that Asuka was really crazy is also a viable explanation for me.
 
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TNO said:
This is exactly what I said. Rei should apologize (or maybe acknowledge that she hurt Asuka with this), just to resolve the conflict, and not make this even a bigger clusterfuck.
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I get you, but I'm also trying to emphasise that Asuka has actually been wronged here; not just in the specific instance but in the general case of a secret being kept from her. That that's a natural and justifiable choice on Rei's part is something we're going to have to handle with care since Asuka is already primed to think we're on Rei's side in an imaginary conflict of interest.

I'm not sure that makes sense so if it doesn't, or that's your thinking too, don't mind me XD
 
This seems like it could be a teaching opportunity. Rei should apologize, though not for wanting to protect Asuka by keeping her from learning that would put her life in jeopardy. Her wishing to keep Asuka safe and acting upon those intentions are fine if not commendable, but regardless of intention or outcome she did cause the other girl harm and that is something that she should apologize for.

It's a chance for Rei to learn that just because someone acts with the well being of another in mind, it does not absolve them of the hurt that they inflict in the process. Hopefully it'd be a thought that'll help her connect more with her fellow pilots and further reconsider Instrumentality.

Besides that, I kinda wanna see how Asuka reacts to being told everything Rei got up to after she got K.O.ed. Hearing that the Rei she considers to be an unemotional and blindly loyal doll of a girl not only got angry but did so because the activation of the dummy system resulted in injury to her and Hikari, ignored direct orders from Gendo of all people, and started making her way back to tear the Geofront pyramid a new one all resulting in her now has to wear a bomb collar to curtail further rebellion might be the revelation that properly short circuits her brain.
 
Spart117MC said:
Besides that, I kinda wanna see how Asuka reacts to being told everything Rei got up to after she got K.O.ed. Hearing that the Rei she considers to be an unemotional and blindly loyal doll of a girl not only got angry but did so because the activation of the dummy system resulted in injury to her and Hikari, ignored direct orders from Gendo of all people, and started making her way back to tear the Geofront pyramid a new one all resulting in her now has to wear a bomb collar to curtail further rebellion might be the revelation that properly short circuits her brain.
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Honestly a pretty good angle to use when things have de-escalated a bit. It puts a neat hole in the "Rei is not loyal to us" argument.
 
Spart117MC said:
Besides that, I kinda wanna see how Asuka reacts to being told everything Rei got up to after she got K.O.ed. Hearing that the Rei she considers to be an unemotional and blindly loyal doll of a girl not only got angry but did so because the activation of the dummy system resulted in injury to her and Hikari, ignored direct orders from Gendo of all people, and started making her way back to tear the Geofront pyramid a new one all resulting in her now has to wear a bomb collar to curtail further rebellion might be the revelation that properly short circuits her brain.
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We, uh, should probably leave out the part where she pulled out our gun on Ritsuko? Asuka would probably use that to fuel her own argument in this heated moment, even she would get to see Rei visibly terrified or guilty.
 
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Personal Matters VII: Nephilim Security Protocol 2a
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Write-in: Give it a second, just to see if Rei says anything. If she doesn't, tell Asuka to let her up so she can talk. Lean on that time in the Army. If she doesn't, separate the two using the minimal amount of force you can.
    -[X] If Rei then talks, let her speak. If not, tell Asuka that yes, she is right to be upset about this, and you're all here to talk this out. You won't let your wards hurt each other.

    Rei doesn't do or say anything. Asuka looks like she's closer to detonating with every second of silence that slips by. You tell Asuka to stand down. This is totally inappropriate, regardless of whatever Rei did to her. Asuka says she's not moving until Rei admits what she did and apologizes for being a lying piece of shit. You sigh and grab Asuka's arm, pulling her off Rei and putting her into an arm hold so she can't easily escape. She squirms and growls obscenities at you in three languages, but you're bigger and stronger than she is.

    Rei pulls herself up and dusts herself off. She shifts nervously, but her expression is one of deep annoyance. She rubs the part of her scalp that Asuka yanked to pull her to the floor. There's a nasty-looking welt on her forehead. You reluctantly sacrifice your cold beer to treat Rei's injuries.

    You wait for Rei to explain herself, or defend herself, or deny Asuka's allegations, but she doesn't respond. You ask Rei if what Asuka said is true. Rei doesn't respond. Not encouraging. You tell Asuka you are going to let her go on the condition she keeps her hands and feet to herself. The four of you can talk this out. You're not going to let the two of them hit each other. Asuka mutters her assent and you gingerly release her from your grip, half-expecting Asuka to lunge at Rei. To her credit, she doesn't. You tell Asuka if what she's saying is true, she's got the right to be upset. That's a shitty thing to do to someone.

    Asuka looks surprised you're taking her side. However, you continue, that doesn't give her the right to beat Rei up. Asuka scowls. You ask Rei once more to confirm or deny Asuka's account. Rei hesitates, but she nods. Asuka is more or less telling the truth. Her voice is flat and clinical. Shinji gives her a disturbed look. She draws her mouth into a thin line and tenses her shoulders.

    See? Asuka says, Rei owes her a big apology. So, hand it over.

    Based on Rei's body language, you're fairly certain that Rei is not inclined to grovel on the floor and beg for Asuka's forgiveness. You're not sure if it's a matter of ego or whether Rei simply feels no remorse for her actions. It's possible she doesn't understand their consequences. But she's not exactly giving you much to work with here.

    Shinji asks Rei why she'd do something like that. There's a hint of horror tingeing the confused quaver of his voice, something that does not go unnoticed by Rei, who grows visibly less confident and poised the longer Shinji looks at her.

    Rei says she was simply following protocol. Asuka accessed highly classified information without permission, and Rei was protecting NERV secrets.

    Asuka starts, and you're tempted to grab her again as she gesticulates angrily. First of all, Asuka was doing her job. If there's an Angel living under NERV's nose, it's her business to know about it. Considerations of security or privacy are irrelevant, especially when the subject isn't even a person, it's an object pretending to be a person. Rei twitches, glaring harder at Asuka. It seems that Asuka has struck a nerve. You're not looking forward to breaking up a potential fistfight.

    Second of all, why the hell is NERV keeping the presence of an Angel secret from her? It's NERV's purpose to protect the world from Angels, and to that end, NERV has recruited her to exterminate them. What makes Rei or Lilith or whatever so damn special that they'd keep them around without telling anyone? Going out of their way to make sure Rei can't die with clones, even. There's obviously something else Rei isn't telling you.

    And third of all, what, Gendo just told her to psychologically torment anyone trying to do their damn job?

    Rei says no, she had a range of options taught to her to deal with this situation, and she selected the one that she felt would be the most effective at neutralizing Asuka. That wasn't lethal. Asuka slaps her. "Just following orders" really isn't going to cut it. Asuka's hands twitch with rage, perhaps itching to squeeze Rei's windpipe. Asuka asks if the three of you can just kill this bitch already.

    What now?

    [ ] Write-in
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [x] enough of that
    -[x] 1) The fact that she is half angel doesn't make her an inanimate object without Qualia, if you truly believe rei has no free will of personality of her own you wouldn't be upset whit her.
    2) NERV loves it's secrets, do you want to know why all pilots are psicologically scarred teenagers Instead of emotionally stable young adults from military families? Well, so would misato but opsec is part of this life
    3) NERV is more than willing to kill misato for knowing this secret (the one who has been living under the same roof whit her the longest) , if rei had follow protocol as she was ordered to by high command the world would be back to three pilots, if Asuka had managed to bring the truth to the masses as it were, she would had signed her own kill order, rei saved her life via gaslighting her, in an ideal world she would had taken you aside and calmly explained to you the truth and you would had take rei had her word and not react about her being half angel in a manner disruptive enough for high command to notice and kill you. oh look, she has been calmly explaining her situation and you had taken her at her word in a completely undisruptive manner.
    4) She saved Asuka's life by going against everything she has been taught since she was born, we understand she is upset about the lies but rei has had absolutely no control over anything in her life right up until the point that Asuka unknowingly entrusted her continued survival to rei's capacity to gaslight her out of that suicidal rabbit hole, and the next time they were in a safe environment she is telling her the truth. At least give her life some value
    5) shinji, grow a fucking spine.
     
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    Eisenhelm said:
    ...shinji, grow a fucking spine.
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    TNO said:
    ...
    Er, what? Maybe Asuka deserves an apology from Shinji, but instantly groveling on his knees?
    Disappointing Shin-man, really disappointing...

    ...

    Honestly, he does deserve the kick in the balls now.
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    Dead Pann said:
    ...
    I'm glad Shinji holds some resentment towards Asuka. It's healthy and means he isn't a complete doormat-

    Dammit, Shinji!
    ...
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    So I keep seeing reactions like this show up throughout the quest and am honestly super weirded out by it.
    So so maybe this is me having poor reading comprehension or having a culture shock thing or something...but I've never seen shinji as like unheathily timid in this quests timeline?


    That is if thats what this this is all about? For now I'm assuming I even grasp where all this anger is coming from? Trying to avoid further angering an already wrathful individual who's better trained in human scale combat than oneself just makes sense to me?
    Hell I'm sure I'd have handled things worse in his position.

    Plus I'm not *I think* anywhere near as isolated and poorly socialized as he was.

    IDK in general he seems to not be doing anything shocking from my point of view and seems to be more functional than in canon?

    Am I missing something? Have I been woefully misreading something?
     
    16 characters said:
    So I keep seeing reactions like this show up throughout the quest and am honestly super weirded out by it.
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    Also a bit confused by this myself. Been writing Shinji pretty consistently as a worrywart who cares too much about other people's opinions of him, I feel.

    Maybe I leaned a bit too hard on the comedic aspect of him immediately caving to being asked to prostrate himself before his lord and god Asuka but he's pretty genuinely sorry, which might not have come across.
     
    Sutekh said:
    Shinji asks Rei why she'd do something like that. There's a hint of horror tingeing the confused quaver of his voice, something that does not go unnoticed by Rei, who grows visibly less confident and poised the longer Shinji looks at her.
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    I'll just note that Shinji is the one who actually managed to crack Rei's facade a little.
     
    16 characters said:
    So I keep seeing reactions like this show up throughout the quest and am honestly super weirded out by it.
    So so maybe this is me having poor reading comprehension or having a culture shock thing or something...but I've never seen shinji as like unheathily timid in this quests timeline?


    That is if thats what this this is all about? For now I'm assuming I even grasp where all this anger is coming from? Trying to avoid further angering an already wrathful individual who's better trained in human scale combat than oneself just makes sense to me?
    Hell I'm sure I'd have handled things worse in his position.

    Plus I'm not *I think* anywhere near as isolated and poorly socialized as he was.

    IDK in general he seems to not be doing anything shocking from my point of view and seems to be more functional than in canon?

    Am I missing something? Have I been woefully misreading something?
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    Asuka is completely dehumanizing rei, the girl shinji is in love with, his best friend; she is baying for her death and he has said nothing about it, no calls for treating her humanely, not even a meek defense of her character, nothing. He is just fence sitting and swaying whit the air currents of the conversation.
     
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