Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
And it can destroy the universe.
Rei Ayanami Raising Project
- Thread starter Sutekh
- Start date
- Location
- United States
I agree, I am unimpressed with her words as you are, But I think it is better to forgo it (for the time being) in order to retain perspective, I want to retain focus on reasons for keeping our Rei alive, and making a pitch to turn Ritsuko away from Gendo and towards our side, and for the moment that would mean not getting bogged down in the mud with other details.
- Location
- Lost in the internet
I'll propose back my previous plan with some alterations, we have succeeded to do what Ritsuko considered impossible before: have Rei live outside of her shit appartment. We have to ask her to trust us doing the "impossible" again.
[] Plan sustainable Reixploitation Bis
-[] Tell Ritsuko that her plan isn't sustainable, she told you herself that a bit of Rei's soul is lost at each transfert. What will she do when it's gone/unusable ?
-[] She told you that Rei couldn't live out of her shit appartment but she was wrong, Rei not only perfectly adapted to the new environment, she even formed interpersonal interactions with the other pilots. So maybe Ritsuko is wrong about Rei "mental instability" needing a transfer.
--[] Propose that you could try to help Rei yourself without needing to damage her soul further, making her useful on the long term.
--[] Ask Ritsuko's help to fix Rei's body while you work on her mind, make it a team effort. The "old Rei" is still there and you can work with her to contain Lilith.
--[] Rei's aggression isn't against the whole NERV but only a few figures, we could ask her why and try to help her.
-[] Tell Ritsuko that her plan isn't sustainable, she told you herself that a bit of Rei's soul is lost at each transfert. What will she do when it's gone/unusable ?
-[] She told you that Rei couldn't live out of her shit appartment but she was wrong, Rei not only perfectly adapted to the new environment, she even formed interpersonal interactions with the other pilots. So maybe Ritsuko is wrong about Rei "mental instability" needing a transfer.
--[] Propose that you could try to help Rei yourself without needing to damage her soul further, making her useful on the long term.
--[] Ask Ritsuko's help to fix Rei's body while you work on her mind, make it a team effort. The "old Rei" is still there and you can work with her to contain Lilith.
--[] Rei's aggression isn't against the whole NERV but only a few figures, we could ask her why and try to help her.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
That conversation with Rei is going to be... difficult. As is our next conversation with all of our other pilots, though I am morbidly looking forwards to Asuka waking up, coming to Misato, saying "Rei, your favourite, is an Angel how do you like that" and Misato letting out an extremely long, tired sigh.
As to a plan:
[X] Remind Ritsuko that Rei's hostility to NERV at this very moment comes from the fact that NERV was actively trying to kill her and her friends. Rei has already backed off from killing Ritsuko on the basis that her friends would die if she had, so it's hard to imagine her wanting to kill them herself through Third Impact. Hell, she stopped when Shinji asked her to and when you asked her to. That's evidence enough that this works.
-[X] You're not going to take parenting criticism from one of the people responsible for this mess. You're going to move on to more productive things instead.
-[X] Take the conversation back to Rei, since surviving this is going to need her co-operation one way or another. Ask Rei if she had a plan for what to do next, in the full expectation that she didn't.
-[X] Ask if there's any way we could fool Gendo with science regarding her injuries. That, or patch them over and have Rei pretend not to be injured until she heals - this would need an excuse to not have the Commander not be able to examine them closely for that time.
-[X] We can also say that Rei's actions in the last battle led to more of her memories transferring over, to cover any suspicious lack of gaps in her knowledge. This covers the other pilots not noticing, that and the stress of the last battle.
I don't necessarily like the length here, but each point kinda has to be covered. Not answering all of Ritsuko's points mostly due to length, but also because some of them are distractions from the main points. There's no need to bite back on her petty "you're incompetent" remark directly, for example.
EDIT: Edited the vote as per suggestions.
As to a plan:
[X] Remind Ritsuko that Rei's hostility to NERV at this very moment comes from the fact that NERV was actively trying to kill her and her friends. Rei has already backed off from killing Ritsuko on the basis that her friends would die if she had, so it's hard to imagine her wanting to kill them herself through Third Impact. Hell, she stopped when Shinji asked her to and when you asked her to. That's evidence enough that this works.
-[X] You're not going to take parenting criticism from one of the people responsible for this mess. You're going to move on to more productive things instead.
-[X] Take the conversation back to Rei, since surviving this is going to need her co-operation one way or another. Ask Rei if she had a plan for what to do next, in the full expectation that she didn't.
-[X] Ask if there's any way we could fool Gendo with science regarding her injuries. That, or patch them over and have Rei pretend not to be injured until she heals - this would need an excuse to not have the Commander not be able to examine them closely for that time.
-[X] We can also say that Rei's actions in the last battle led to more of her memories transferring over, to cover any suspicious lack of gaps in her knowledge. This covers the other pilots not noticing, that and the stress of the last battle.
I don't necessarily like the length here, but each point kinda has to be covered. Not answering all of Ritsuko's points mostly due to length, but also because some of them are distractions from the main points. There's no need to bite back on her petty "you're incompetent" remark directly, for example.
EDIT: Edited the vote as per suggestions.
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Oh that's bullshit. How many child soldiers have you kept alive and functional, Rits? That's right, NONE. You had to resort to save-scumming to keep Rei even half-functional.
(Also, we wanted to get the kids some counciling. We have literally been denied the tools to do our job properly)
(If our job is to take care of the kids, why do we have to liase with the JSSDF and effing marketing? We should have staff.)
Have you tried asking nicely and explaining your reasoning? Because I find she's usually pretty receptive to that.
---
We have tried being reasonable, and Ritsuko keeps throwing it back in our face. I don't think we can reason with her. She she doesn't see this as a discussion, she thinks this is a blame game, and she thinks she can win.
I keep trying and failing to find a 'nice' way to say it. She's wounded, but too proud to admit it. She's wrong, but too committed to re-evaluate. I think we need to shake her to her core. I think we need to break her.
also im feeling a little bit petty
[X] Plan Psychological Damage
-[X] I inform you, as a subject-matter expert, that your actions would break pilot morale. I prevent you from taking actions that would doom humanity. And you call me incompetent, for fulfilling my duty.
--[X] Real big of you, Rits. Real big. I'm so proud.
-[X] Speaking of incompetent, it's been what, twelve years? What progress have you made getting Dr. Yui Ikari back?
--[X] I bet Gendo would kiss you full on the mouth, if you could save his wife.
--[X] What's the matter, Miss now-the-head-of-research, afraid of a little competition?
-[X] You're afraid of Rei? Of the girl who won't even eat meat?
--[X] You want to stop her from ending the world? Have you tried asking nicely?
-[X] Why would you even think Gendo would put a bullet in either of our heads?
--[X] If he's a competent commander, he'll listen to his experts.
--[X] And if he's not competent, he shouldn't be in charge!
--[X] What has he done to you, Rits? Why is execution the reaction that jumps into your mind?
-[X] (If she hasn't at least cracked by this point)
--[X] Fuck it, let's get back to Rei. I'm sure she'd like to take her bomb collar off.
---[X] (like that going off wouldn't trigger exactly the scenario you're afraid of. Jesus, Rits)
--[X] Maybe you can ask her for advice, instead of laying all the responsibility on the gal who just found out about this shit today.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
Basically criticized a monument for the comfort women of WW2. That kinda rubbed fair amount of people the wrong way.
Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I already know what Rits will say to this:
"I've already told you, only a tiny bit of the soul is drawn into Unit 00 when the transfer is done. A percentage, less. God, who cares? We'd have to do it dozens more times before it makes a difference. Stop going over points I have already addressed, come to your senses, and realize that we have to do this."
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Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Do you know who hasn't eaten meat yet? Hitler.
(Okay, this is a dirty trick, but the fact is that a vegetarian diet is not a guarantee that a person is not cruel to his own kind)
Honestly, I would like to somehow combine the last three plans.
Fair point, but my plan is kinda about giving up on arguing reasonably.
Dooo iiittt. Be the plan you want to see in the world.
- Location
- Lost in the internet
So should I remove it and mostly focus on the second point ?
Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X] Rational decision
-[x] Ritsuko - you claim that the damage is minimal, and that it would take dozens if not hundreds of similar transformations for Rei-chan to stop functioning. However, can you guarantee that negative consequences will not manifest themselves earlier? That she will be effective as a pilot all the time? If there is a way to maintain her stability without losing a piece of her soul, then it will be much more effective in any case. I managed to improve the situation a little, and she is better than she was when we met. Small losses are better than large ones, but no losses are the best option.
--[x] Don't forget about memory. Memory loss will force us to waste time on additional retraining. If her memory and related skills were in order, it could help her be better prepared for the attack of the next angels.
-[x] Remind Ritsuko that Rei's hostility to NERV at this very moment comes from the fact that NERV was actively trying to kill her and her friends. Rei has already backed off from killing Ritsuko on the basis that her friends would die if she had, so it's hard to imagine her wanting to kill them herself through Third Impact. Hell, she stopped when Shinji asked her to and when you asked her to. That's evidence enough that this works.
--[x] Rei's aggression isn't against the whole NERV but only a few figures, we could ask her why and try to help her.
-[x] You say that if Gendo finds out about this, he will simply kill you. Why would he kill his lead researcher and one of his assistants? Commander Ikari clearly doesn't think straight - he sounds more like a manga villain.
-[x] In any case, we need to discuss the plan with Rei-chan. This concerns her directly.
Initially, I wanted to focus on more complex emotional interactions. But Ritsuko is a person who puts rational arguments above all else. An attempt to make her sympathize is clearly doomed to failure at this stage. Trying to mock her will also not lead to anything good - we are still at a low stage of the conflict. So we need to show that there is a more sensible solution.
-[x] Ritsuko - you claim that the damage is minimal, and that it would take dozens if not hundreds of similar transformations for Rei-chan to stop functioning. However, can you guarantee that negative consequences will not manifest themselves earlier? That she will be effective as a pilot all the time? If there is a way to maintain her stability without losing a piece of her soul, then it will be much more effective in any case. I managed to improve the situation a little, and she is better than she was when we met. Small losses are better than large ones, but no losses are the best option.
--[x] Don't forget about memory. Memory loss will force us to waste time on additional retraining. If her memory and related skills were in order, it could help her be better prepared for the attack of the next angels.
-[x] Remind Ritsuko that Rei's hostility to NERV at this very moment comes from the fact that NERV was actively trying to kill her and her friends. Rei has already backed off from killing Ritsuko on the basis that her friends would die if she had, so it's hard to imagine her wanting to kill them herself through Third Impact. Hell, she stopped when Shinji asked her to and when you asked her to. That's evidence enough that this works.
--[x] Rei's aggression isn't against the whole NERV but only a few figures, we could ask her why and try to help her.
-[x] You say that if Gendo finds out about this, he will simply kill you. Why would he kill his lead researcher and one of his assistants? Commander Ikari clearly doesn't think straight - he sounds more like a manga villain.
-[x] In any case, we need to discuss the plan with Rei-chan. This concerns her directly.
Initially, I wanted to focus on more complex emotional interactions. But Ritsuko is a person who puts rational arguments above all else. An attempt to make her sympathize is clearly doomed to failure at this stage. Trying to mock her will also not lead to anything good - we are still at a low stage of the conflict. So we need to show that there is a more sensible solution.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] VX-145's plan
-[X] Remind Ritsuko that Rei's hostility to NERV at this very moment comes from the fact that NERV was actively trying to kill her and her friends. Rei has already backed off from killing Ritsuko on the basis that her friends would die if she had, so it's hard to imagine her wanting to kill them herself through Third Impact. Hell, she stopped when Shinji asked her to and when you asked her to. That's evidence enough that this works.
--[X] Take the conversation back to Rei, since surviving this is going to need her co-operation one way or another. Ask Rei if she had a plan for what to do next, in the full expectation that she didn't.
--[X] Suggest that we pass off the injuries as stigmata - sympathetic wounds that have transferred to Rei "12" due to Rei 11's berserker state in the last battle. That, or patch them over and have Rei pretend not to be injured until she heals - this would need an excuse to not have the Commander not be able to examine them closely for that time.
--[X] We can also say that Rei's actions in the last battle led to more of her memories transferring over, to cover any suspicious lack of gaps in her knowledge. This covers the other pilots not noticing, that and the stress of the last battle.
-[X] Remind Ritsuko that Rei's hostility to NERV at this very moment comes from the fact that NERV was actively trying to kill her and her friends. Rei has already backed off from killing Ritsuko on the basis that her friends would die if she had, so it's hard to imagine her wanting to kill them herself through Third Impact. Hell, she stopped when Shinji asked her to and when you asked her to. That's evidence enough that this works.
--[X] Take the conversation back to Rei, since surviving this is going to need her co-operation one way or another. Ask Rei if she had a plan for what to do next, in the full expectation that she didn't.
--[X] Suggest that we pass off the injuries as stigmata - sympathetic wounds that have transferred to Rei "12" due to Rei 11's berserker state in the last battle. That, or patch them over and have Rei pretend not to be injured until she heals - this would need an excuse to not have the Commander not be able to examine them closely for that time.
--[X] We can also say that Rei's actions in the last battle led to more of her memories transferring over, to cover any suspicious lack of gaps in her knowledge. This covers the other pilots not noticing, that and the stress of the last battle.
I think the Dummy Plug system being operational lessens the strength of this point somewhat.
This is definitely a tough spot to try and argue our way out of. On most technical points we really can't argue with Ritsuko - she's either right (if only scientifically) or knows so much more than us that we'd be flying blind. We did make progress when we shifted to arguing from the perspective of Operations Command I think we should try to stay in that lane if we can to try and persuade her.
I'm not sure if this is the time or place to broach this topic - but we could try to turn this around to Gendo somewhat. Acknowledge that we understand that these orders are coming from him but stress that as Operations Commander we're saying this is a potentially fatal mistake strategically and short-sighted to boot - yes, we now understand that Rei is uniquely capable of causing the end of mankind in a way the other pilots can not but I think VX-145's opener about how Rei's hostility is a reaction to the harm done to her friends, specifically the Dummy Plug's mangling of Hikari is a good one. Who made that call again?
The stock answer we tend to get is "it's your job to manage them/this situation" but what we're being asked to "manage" is the compounding fuck-ups from others getting into our lane - whether it's psy-ops Angels or the Commander overruling his Ops Commander in pursuit of short-term wins without consideration of the bigger picture (admittedly this is treading in slightly dangerous waters given what Misato understands as the bigger picture isn't the same as Gendo's but to the extent Ritsuko may know this I think dragging it out is helpful - for now at least Misato can point to Gendo's insistence that Unit 01 finish the Angel rather than Unit 00 if pressed for an example.) We know there are times when we have to overrule the feelings of the pilots and order them to do things they don't want to do but shit like that is part of building a rapport - it's not done in a day but it sure as hell can be undone in one, and you have to pick and choose when and how to do that if you want to fight a war instead of a battle.
If Rei is an Angel or part-Angel then as Ops Commander this is your situation to manage. It's another unreasonable surprise complication thrown in your lap from on high that they somehow didn't deem worth telling the person who has to manage it - but fine, that's nothing new. But that's what you've been doing here - managing it - it's been messy and we haven't been perfect about it but it remains the position of Operations that this is a mistake we can't afford after the other mistakes the Commander made and dumped on us.
As for "what now"... ask Rei and see if she had a plan here. If she did, we'll assess it. If she didn't we'll do what we've always done - figure something out.
But, you know, a lot more concise than that.
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- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, this is all red flags. No flags of any other color.
Gendo Ikari keeps causing problems.
"Gendo told me not to discuss that."
I don't think that's necessarily a smart thing to say, but I am curious what Ritsuko's reaction would be.
Take that, Demiurge. After afflicting us with the horrors of material reality, it's only fair that you suffer along with us.
I'd say that all our pilots (Horaki to a lesser extent) are important to all the other pilots. No one is the glue; they're more like a mortarless stone structure where each stone is held up by pressure and support from all the other stones.
But that sophistry is tangential to Misato's point. And also to Ritsuko's objection.
Missed opportunity to mix your metaphors with "In for a penny, in for a pound of flesh".
The pilots' mental health is Misato's duty, but can it be her fault if she can't stop child soldiers from being traumatized? That's like blaming the Little Dutch Boy for failing to stop a flood when the dike suffers multiple leaks. (That's not getting into their pre-existing issues, caused by parental abuse and parental neglect and pseudoparental not-considering-her-a-human.)
This sophistry is more closely related to what Ritsuko is saying, but not helpful to bring up. Partly because she probably hasn't heard of the Little Dutch Boy, mostly because I think she accused Misato of incompetence to hurt her more than for any rhetorical purpose.
I don't like the idea of encouraging Rei to do that. I also don't have any better ideas at this time.
In the sense that Elon Musk is necessary for the continuation of Twitter (we don't have any way to remove him from his position).
Probably also other ways; Gendo is a lot better at making himself relevant than the elongated muskrat is. But that's the big one.
That won't be much comfort to Ritsuko, since one of the NERV command staff Rei identified by name was Ritsuko.
I can see Misato reacting like that. But if we can avoid giving Ritsuko extra reason to dismiss Misato as an illogical, incompetent rube, we should.
Also the fact that Misato has identified problems and been refused the tools to solve them. Therapy is the obvious example; it's been broached a few times, but it keeps getting shot down. So Misato gets blamed for her inability to serve as a proper therapist to three child soldiers with pre-existing concerns that exacerbate the trauma of being child soldiers while, also handling everything else about their training and rearing and education, and also having random unrelated tasks thrown at her, even though she hasn't been trained for any of the tasks assigned to her, except perhaps arguing with other military officers.
All of that makes sense for Rei Ayanami Raising Project the forum game, and most makes sense for Neon Genesis Evangelion the anime, but Misato getting blamed for the impossible quantity of work dumped on her plate to make an interesting game or dramatic story is pretty overtly unfair.
Probably not the best example. Let's instead focus on the bit where he told the pilots to ignore the positron artillery slowly tearing their mechs to pieces.
There are a lot of similar plans being thrown around, and the main thing I'm focused on when comparing them is whether we want to bring up all the important points or focus on the most important points. It would be helpful to wreck all of Ritsuko's reasons for discarding Misato's opinion, but is that worth taking focus off of the stuff that directly matters?
I also don't think Ritsuko would be impressed by us asking Rei for advice. I think Misato is justified in doing so—she has known about the problem at hand for more than ten minutes—but I don't think Ritsuko would think the same way.
Spart117MC
Amateur human
- Location
- Cali
It's simple. We uh, kill the Gendo.
- Location
- Lost in the internet
I agree, it would just confort Ritsuko's idea that Misato is unreliable/became a big softie and that she's right with dismissing us.
[X] VX-145's plan
I'm sick and tired of people going "Isn't it YOUR responsibility to take care of these kids?" Like it's a gotcha. They're having to deal with the stress of being child soldiers to save the world, we're doing our best but it's not like a trip to Dave & Busters completely neutralizes that, and on top of that y'all are actively stressing the fuck out of our pilots! You're not making it easier by doing shit like this Rits, or the fact any time Daddy of the Year talks to his son it's never like "Good job on killing those omnicidal space aliens sport!" Like. Come on y'all.
Clearly the best plan here is to kill Gendo and Weekend at Bernie's it. He's already a stoic, no one will notice if he's just propped up in this thinking/judgemental position.
I'm sick and tired of people going "Isn't it YOUR responsibility to take care of these kids?" Like it's a gotcha. They're having to deal with the stress of being child soldiers to save the world, we're doing our best but it's not like a trip to Dave & Busters completely neutralizes that, and on top of that y'all are actively stressing the fuck out of our pilots! You're not making it easier by doing shit like this Rits, or the fact any time Daddy of the Year talks to his son it's never like "Good job on killing those omnicidal space aliens sport!" Like. Come on y'all.
Clearly the best plan here is to kill Gendo and Weekend at Bernie's it. He's already a stoic, no one will notice if he's just propped up in this thinking/judgemental position.
This is admittedly my fault for writing all that without a clear voice but I wrote most of it as if coming from in-quest Misato (except some obvious parts where I'm referring to other ideas in the thread) rather than me. (I'd like to blame the fact that my brain was still in the process of booting up with coffee during most of that post but it was definitely confusing on my part and I apologize.)
I understand, to an extent, why Ritsuko would blame Misato for failing to adequately "manage" the pilots but it's also not something I would get overly hung up on in a response to her here - in that response idea I wrote up Misato admits that things haven't always gone great but that a good deal of her perceived failures are the result of others (mostly Gendo; I'd say Ritsuko has contributed a bit too but this is very much not the time for that) thinking they can do her job better than her when actually they're fucking it up.
Like I said, I think it's a bit risky to turn this to Gendo, but some of my hope here is to appeal to the idea that while we acknowledge that Ritsuko is being ordered to "retire" Rei on his orders - his orders have often had the effect of making things worse. Misato has been in pretty much constant triage mode dealing with the issues he's caused and the last battle clearly showed that things are at their limit. Misato would be offering her opinion that if this order is followed (again, with Gendo micromanaging Misato's job) it will irreversibly fracture the pilots beyond the ability of anyone to get them to obey NERV/fight the Angels - and no "that's your job!" will change that, particularly given that when the chips are down apparently they don't actually think it is your job given how much they keep trying to do it themselves against your advice.
I feel like one of the natural rebuttals is that each of Gendo's decisions/orders/overrules can be justified in the immediate/short-term and that obviously we're still alive now - but Misato would argue he keeps electing to win the battle instead of focusing on making sure he can win the war. (Of course, unbeknownst to Misato, Gendo's goals go beyond "defeat the Angels" and he has the script on how many there are - while Misato can't know how long this will go on and so burning the pilots down like this seems like strategic suicide when really Gendo knows we're nearing the endgame.)
That's fine.
I'd say it is not. That's why I think we're probably best focusing on viewing and arguing this from Misato's role as Ops Commander. We'll table the "does Rei have a right to live?", "What meaningfully defines human in the first place?", etc. arguments for now.
She probably won't be, no. But that's why I added in the "if she has an idea, we'll assess it (with the implication that if we're not impressed/onboard with it we will veto) and if she doesn't we'll continue this discussion and figure something out." We're not saying we'll just blindly take Rei's answer or side, but that we want to hear it first if it exists. Even Ritsuko should be able to see that if we're even going to attempt this that Rei is an integral player.
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- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah. Sometimes it feels like Misato's main job duty is getting blamed when things go wrong. It feels like [Misato points out something would be bad for the pilots' mental health] —> [someone points out that Misato's duty is to maintain their mental health] is the defining pattern of her office arguments.
I know that's not literally true, that plenty of problems can be chalked up to unforeseeable circumstances or Misato's mistakes or unrelated screwups, but it's not untrue of this specific argument we're having with Ritsuko.
Those arguments aren't what I was thinking about. I was thinking more along the lines of "Do we bother to respond to Ritsuko accusing Misato of incompetence?"
On one hand, it feels like Ritsuko is using "Misato is an incompetent fool meddling in things she doesn't understand" as an excuse to dismiss anything Misato says that Rits doesn't like. If we can convince Ritsuko that Misato is a reasonably competent caretaker with an unreasonably difficult job, it will be harder for Ritsuko to ignore other points she makes.
On the other hand, responding to every dumb little argument Ritsuko brings up is going to waste time, energy, and patience, and it might not even work. Those arguments could easily crowd out the points that we actually need to get Ritsuko to agree with.
On the first hand, it's possible that Ritsuko cannot be convinced to agree to some of those points without first being convinced to take Misato seriously.
Normally, if an argument gets to the point that the other participant is questioning my intelligence, I start looking for a way to escape the conversation. That's pretty easy if it's a Reddit argument or something, but it's not really an option for Misato.
I see where you're coming from. I agree with your assessment. I'm not sure Ritsuko will, not right now. She should agree that Rei needs to agree with whatever they plan for her, but that doesn't imply agreeing that she needs to be consulted about that plan. Adults decide things for children all the time, even when they don't see the children as inhuman time bombs.
- Location
- Laniakea
The most important point - arguably, the ONLY point - we need to get Ritsuko to agree with is number 5: "What would we have her do? What do we suggest?"
She's handing us an opportunity on a silver platter to propose an alternative to following through with Gendo's orders to replace Rei.
That's really the main thing we care about at this point. Whether she thinks Misato is incompetent or how dangerous Rei could be without proper supervision is beside the point, as long as she agrees to an alternative that doesn't involve killing or lobotomizing Rei.
Only thing is, the most popular ideas so far are "ask Rei for HER ideas" or "bullshit through your teeth to Gendo about stigmata" and the former is just kicking the can down the road while the latter is..... well, given that Fuyutsuki knows enough about this stuff to train Asuka as a replacement for Ritsuko, I have to express skepticism over Gendo buying it.
Practically speaking, the most easily agreeable alternative we could propose to Ritsuko would be to tell her to simply put it all on hold while Misato goes to Gendo and negotiates directly with him. I think that would most likely result in DSS-Chokered Rei at best, though who knows.
Convincing her to try and cover it up and disobey her orders entirely? That would require an actual logical plan on how to do it, ontop of convincing Ritsuko that Misato can keep the current one under control.
We could potentially buy a bit more time by shooting some of the equipment needed for the process and saying Rei did it with her stolen gun, to get the whole process put on hold for a day or two while Ritsuko repairs/replaces that stuff. But that would still require an actual plan to eventually fake Rei's replacement or stage a breakout or kidnapping before the new deadline, the only benefit is that we'd have an extra day or two to acquire more resources for the plan.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In case it's not clear: that's in part meant as a "Misato suggests ideas so that Ritsuko doesn't have an excuse to go "you have nothing you're an idiot"" thing. There's also an element of prompting Ritsuko and Rei to discuss the problem through the context of the problems with that idea - thus allowing us to come up with a better one, or having one of them provide suggestions. This doesn't come across through the write-in - it's pretty hard to convey the notion of throwing ideas out just for discussion - but that's the vague intent there. It's also right next to the much more realistic idea of "Have Rei fake it for a few days, come up with some bullshit as to why she can remember things".
Buying time is a useful option here, though, as the main problem is Rei's injuries, which mark her as not a replacement. Those might not take too long to heal, so if we can plausibly buy a few days or a week we can then pretend to do the swap - using that time to coach Rei what to "forget" around the Commander.
The coldest option is to just go "fuck you Ritsuko that sounds like a you problem not a me problem, you figure it out" and use sheer intimidation to keep her in line. This would definitely end well and not be a massive mistake that would end with Misato dead /s.
[X] VX-145
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I agree with a lot of what PistachioCookies said, but this just misses the point of the post they quoted. The dilemma I was outlining was the possibility that convincing Ritsuko that Misato isn't incompetent might be useful (or even necessary) to get her to accept the points we need to get her to agree with.
As a parallel example, arguments to convince Ritsuko that Rei is human are obviously not worth much on their own. Who cares what goes on in her soul? But if Misato had convinced Rits that Rei was human, it would be much easier to convince her not to kill Rei.
In that example, trying to convince Ritsuko that Rei is human would have been a waste of time, for pretty obvious reasons. But the reasoning in this case is less obvious. If Ritsuko thinks Misato is an incompetent fool who doesn't know what she's talking about, that belief can serve as a rhetorical everything-proof shield against almost anything Misato suggests.
It might be a necessary prerequisite to convince Ritsuko to do the drastic measures any plan to save Rei, Ritsuko, and Misato would require...or it might be a waste of time.