Remove ads

Pound the Table | An X-Men Self-Insert

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
October Daye said:
As for a mutant ethno-state? That one runs afoul of the fact that mutants aren't a monolith. You put two random-ass mutants next to one another, and the only thing they have in common is "mutant". There's no shared culture, history, etc. And more than that, there's so much variety among mutants that any regulations on power use would end up hilariously unequal very quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

October Daye said:
She would walk over there, slap him upside the head, point at all the goddamn wars Israel had been in during the (at the time) sub-50 years of its existence, and ask him how drunk he was when he came up with this idea because it was the single dumbest thing she'd ever heard. And that's after 10+ years as a defense attorney.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Now I have a follow up question.

Your first post on the subject says that Noa would be against a mutant nation-state because she does not consider mutant kind to be a nation.
Her opinion is that shoving them all in a single country won't result in unity, but a lot of domestic/internal conflict between all the different cultures and ideologies.
And/or in the oppression of minorities within the mutant community.

But your second post makes it sound like Noa's problem with a mutant nation-state is that she views it as a target. As if instead of finding strength in numbers, close proximity just makes it simpler to kill mutants en mass.
Now Genosha's fate in the comics obviously hangs over everything, but these are two very different arguments.

Is the first Noa's personal opinion and the second what she worries will happen?
 
October Daye said:
She would walk over there, slap him upside the head, point at all the goddamn wars Israel had been in during the (at the time) sub-50 years of its existence, and ask him how drunk he was when he came up with this idea because it was the single dumbest thing she'd ever heard. And that's after 10+ years as a defense attorney.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which is actually really impressive given all the dumb shit defense attorney's tend to hear from their clients.

Though that makes me wonder, does Noa have a defense put together to stop her from getting hit by the effect if Wanda goes all "No More Mutants"?
 
Damn this is fucked up, not only is Fury preemptively laying out the kompromat that can be activated against Noa if she becomes a Threat(tm)* to America and to the world. But also, this is Noa now somewhat burned as someone that can easily traverse all the different worlds of Mutant and general superhuman communities to go wherever she's needed as a high-power lawyer on the side of angels. Like even as she's helping get Pietro and Wanda where they need to go and starting to network with professor Xavier and the broader Mutant Rights movement, even the X-Men are going to have to be super incredibly circumspect and maintain good security practices dividing Noa's efforts from any potentially sensitive information about the institute, in light of Fury potentially squeezing it out of her or tracking it down through his tabs on her. Fury's exactly the kind of person who would not shy away at all from building up files to blackbag X-Men, flipping students as SHIELD assets, etc... basically the whole worst case scenario of destroying Xavier's School as a safe space for Mutants and the X-Men as a genuine Mutant Rights organization.

And that's just the X-Men! Erik/Max remaining in contact with Noa as it becomes known that Fury has his eye on her is just the sort of thing that could break apart the Brotherhood as in-fighting and accusations and counter-accusations of being SHIELD informants and also numerous SHIELD penetration efforts take it down like COINTELPRO took down the Black Panthers.


*(As in what Nick Fury considers a threat)**
**(As in what could threaten SHIELD, the protectors of earth)***
***(As in a moral crusader of a lawyer damaging SHIELD, by unraveling all their Gitmo black site shit they might have locking up some suspected Brotherhood agents)
 
Last edited:
I am looking forward to a potential future epilogue in which Noa gets an invitation to Krakoa and goes "oh, hell no!" so hard that she accidentally creates a "we are Mutant, but we refuse Krakoa" movement.

Or she makes the whole Silent Council go deaf for the next three hundred rebirths and countless ministrations by regenerative powers from all the yelling.
 
Genosha makes sense pretty much only as a last ditch effort to escape genocide. If it gets to the point where most nations have giant mutant murdering robots flying around, and no other nations taking in mutant refugees, then it makes sense to just fort up and hope no one has the apatite for an actual war.
 
Anaja said:
She's currently helping Pietro move Wanda to a situation better for her mental health.

Actually defending against it would be way out of her weight class.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You'll have to forgive me if I don't put much trust in the ability of Wander to get proper mental health care in the Marvel universe. ;)

And would it be?

Wanda's power, as great as it was, still had to be split across every single being it effected. Which means to defend against it should require only a fraction of the mystical power it took to bring about the event in the first place.
 
Vaermina said:
You'll have to forgive me if I don't put much trust in the ability of Wander to get proper mental health care in the Marvel universe. ;)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TFS Mr. Perfect Cell: "Oh please, there isn't a shrink qualified enough to deal with her hot mess!"

TFS Alucard: "I have been a psychiatrist to millions of people and also myself for the last decade and made success in helping them get over their issues! So I am over-beyond qualified!"
 
October Daye said:
Here comes a few weeks of training!

I'm gonna try to finish the chapter this weekend, but I'm not gonna make any promises. I was so mentally exhausted from my first day on the job that I was in bed at 9pm. (the dog was happy with that! Cuddly puppy)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
HUZZAH! I weep for your sleep schedule and ability to have a social life. Then again, you survived your first year of law school so you know the drill. Good luck and may you have an excellent barista.
 
random_npc said:
Genosha makes sense pretty much only as a last ditch effort to escape genocide. If it gets to the point where most nations have giant mutant murdering robots flying around, and no other nations taking in mutant refugees, then it makes sense to just fort up and hope no one has the apatite for an actual war.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I believe that the mainstream Marvel Canon (Earth 616) had Genosha only become a mutant ethno-state after a government built on mutant slavery was overthrown and a civil war ruined subsequent attempts at co-existence. It didn't start out with mutants conquering a foreign country and seeking to establish an ethno-state.

My understanding of the stages of the timeline:
1) Genosha becomes a wealthy nation through the horrific abuse of enslaved mutants. It wasn't made clear but I assume that the large mutant population was the result of not just native births but also massive human trafficking that was possibly supported by governments wanting to get rid of their mutant citizens. This seems like the most sensible explanation for why a relatively small and unpopulated island nation would have such a large mutant population.

2) The X-men help topple the oppressive human regime and lay the foundations for a new government that promises better treatment of mutants. This is not a mutant ethno-state. It seems to represent a genuine attempt to build the human-mutant coexistence envisioned by Xavier.

3) A Mutant-Human civil war arises as a result of abused mutants who are unable to forgive their oppressors, continued bigotry from the largely human government, and intervention from powerful mutants (Fabio Cortex) and foreign powers seeking to exploit Genosha for their own profit. Genosha turns into a war-torn hellhole as warring factions battle for supremacy.

4) Magneto brokers a deal with the United Nations to give him control over Genosha. He establishes a mutant ethno-state after defeating the remaining human resistance and native mutants who don't accept his rule. The fate of the human inhabitants of Genosha wasn't made clear but it is implied that they faced either life as second-class citizens, deportation, or exile. It is noteworthy that they once represented a majority of the Genoshan population but were essentially completely gone after Magneto had solidified has control over Genosha. There are some pretty dark implications here.

5) Genosha exists as a mutant ethno-state for a brief period of time before it almost totally destroyed by a Sentinel attack. A population of millions is reduced to hundreds.

I could easily see Noa starting out supportive of the Genoshan mutants fighting against their human oppressors (who literally kept them as lobotomized slaves) and the coalition government that forms after the rebellion. She would only turn against them in stage 4 when Magneto abandons any hope of coexistence and establishes his mutant ethno-state through brute force.
 
Last edited:
I do wonder though, is magneto more reasonable here because he has someone he respects who makes pragmatic rather than ideological arguments against his more lunatic ideas, or is it because it's still early days and he hasn't been further radicalized by the unceasing cavalcade of atrocities committed against mutants in marvel?
 
random_npc said:
I do wonder though, is magneto more reasonable here because he has someone he respects who makes pragmatic rather than ideological arguments against his more lunatic ideas, or is it because it's still early days and he hasn't been further radicalized by the unceasing cavalcade of atrocities committed against mutants in marvel?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Both probably, and they'd build on one another. Magneto wasn't the sole reason for mutant hate by any means, but him being supervillain Magneto definitely didn't help. Especially on the government side. Him showing up to steal missiles or conquer small nations was definitely going to put them on edge regarding mutants.
 
Honesty Magneto best idea was when his base was in space, if he didn't have a traitor most people wouldn't have been able to invade.

Compared to that Genosha is a downgrade.

Now if Genosha happened to be a mutant state because there was a slave revolt, the mutants got free of the slaver collars and killed the local government, WITHOUT Magneto and they have to figure what the heck do next? That would be an interesting story.

Like it really doesn't need that much, just a mutant whose power can make the collars useless, maybe one or two X-Men as point of view characters and things getting out of control once the mutants get free without the X-Men or anyone else getting there in time.

I would find it hilarious if they told Magneto to fuck off since he did nothing to free them despite having magnetic powers..And they also told the X-Men to take their "lost child" and leave.
 
first of all, congrats on the new job @October Daye 👍

Ct613hulu said:
My understanding of the stages of the timeline:
1) Genosha becomes a wealthy nation through the horrific abuse of enslaved mutants. It wasn't made clear but I assume that the large mutant population was the result of not just native births but also massive human trafficking that was possibly supported by governments wanting to get rid of their mutant citizens. This seems like the only explanation for why a relatively small and unpopulated island nation would have such a
a large mutant population.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is correct, I beleive they even had a few brainwashed X-family members working for them (I seem to recall Wolvesbane and Havok being brainwashed into loyalty to the Genoshan government, possibly others) The concentration of mutants on the island was way too high for just the native born population, mutant trafficing was pretty much the only possible way to achieve it.
 
In theory there could have been some sort of founder's effect going on resulting in a much higher rate of mutants.
 
October Daye said:
Against it. Absolutely dead set against it.

It's not the same as Israel, which is, if you look at the very core of the reason for its existence, meant to be a bit of a ethno-theocratic bulwark. Jews have been persecuted, driven out, hunted, enslaved, etc. so many times throughout history that a huge chunk of the Torah is "here's how to recognize when they're about to come with torches, so you need to pack your shit and get ready to book it".

While it's safe to say that Israel (and in particular its government) has… 'drifted' from that initial purpose, the Right of Return exists for a reason.

It's important to remember, folks, that Judaism isn't just a religion. It's also a culture and (to an extent) an ethnicity. Otherwise we wouldn't have specific panels of genetic diseases unique to our ancestries to worry about!

(also the first person who tries to turn this into a political argument about the Israeli Palestinian conflict is getting my legal pad so far up their ass they start spitting out fully typed briefs and motions)

As for a mutant ethno-state? That one runs afoul of the fact that mutants aren't a monolith. You put two random-ass mutants next to one another, and the only thing they have in common is "mutant". There's no shared culture, history, etc. And more than that, there's so much variety among mutants that any regulations on power use would end up hilariously unequal very quickly.

And you would NEED to regulate power use lest, say, an Emma Frost come in and take over with rampant telepathic domination.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's also the fact that while mutants do seem to always have mutant children, most mutants have non-mutant parents. It doesn't really parallel Israel at all when you get into the details, because mutants are meant to be an allegory for LGBTQ+, not religious minorities. They just don't function the same way.

Krakoa was a grave mistake on Marvel's part, and I genuinely hope it gets retconned sooner rather than later.
 
Firehawk242 said:
There's also the fact that while mutants do seem to always have mutant children, most mutants have non-mutant parents. It doesn't really parallel Israel at all when you get into the details, because mutants are meant to be an allegory for LGBTQ+, not religious minorities. They just don't function the same way.

Krakoa was a grave mistake on Marvel's part, and I genuinely hope it gets retconned sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Krakoa is already gone last I checked. Though I think their colony on Mars (which represents the Sol System to the rest of the Universe) is still kicking?

Anyway, this does bring up an interesting idea. What exactly does Magneto want? Prof X wants respect and understanding through social integration.

Magneto is more of a pop-culture Malcom X. A mutant nationalist who advocates for Peace through Fear and would prefer segregation to integration.
But, how does Magneto see that playing out? Is he looking to build Mutant-only communities?
Or is he just using violence to buy time until Mutants are the majority (like how Prof X is using superheroics)?
 
Firehawk242 said:
Krakoa was a grave mistake on Marvel's part, and I genuinely hope it gets retconned sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My perspective is that there were some excellent storylines that could only have been implemented with the unique circumstances of Krakoa. The resurrection of mutants coupled with the marshalling of otherwise incompatible characters under the banner of Krakoa has allowed for some fascinating character interactions. It was also quite interesting to explore the development of a mutant culture that exists independent of conventional human society and the ever-present threat of human bigotry. I particularly enjoyed how the character arcs for Genesis and Nightcrawler introduced the idea of a mutant religion.

The Marvel Metaplot has also moved away from the primary conception of Krakoa as an independent ethno-state with a disaster that destroyed the island and left the majority of the population trapped in another dimension or on Mars / Arakko. It is going back to the status quo of mutants as a despised and hunted minority for the mutants trapped on Earth.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top