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Magical Girl Quest - The Fire That Burns

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[X] Stay Silent
-[X] And actually listen to Karen's explanation

I'm willing to change to a solid write-in, if somebody makes one.
 
...But she did purposely leave out the finer details of the vow. Cerys knows nothing about magic and no one has even tried to teach her basic principles about it, as such a thing was pointed out by the old enforcer on the farm.

Face it, Karen didn't tell Cerys the difference because it would be an inconvenience in gaining her trust. What Karen didn't see coming is the Counter Force wanting a meeting and us being so readily to accept, maybe down the line she would have told us the truth but only after we were in her pocket. But then that's not really an issue is it? You're all making excuses for her. She could do almost anything and you'd be fine with it apparently.
Adhoc vote count started by MilitaryAaa on Jan 31, 2018 at 5:54 PM, finished with 7440 posts and 15 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by MilitaryAaa on Jan 31, 2018 at 6:15 PM, finished with 7441 posts and 16 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by MilitaryAaa on Jan 31, 2018 at 9:41 PM, finished with 7446 posts and 17 votes.
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[X]What else have you been lying to me about?

It feels way too much like someone playing on the raging insecurities of a traumatized teenaged girl to get her to kill what they need dead.
 
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[X] Stay Silent
-[X] And actually listen to Karen's explanation

Trust is something Cerys doesn't extend easily. Why should the words of enemy commander in a world war have such weight so as to have trust shaken to greatly? Karen gets to have her own word in edgewise, is what I'd like.
 
Faraway-R said:
Trust is something Cerys doesn't extend easily. Why should the words of enemy commander in a world war have such weight so as to have trust shaken to greatly? Karen gets to have her own word in edgewise, is what I'd like.
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I would like to note, since people seem to continually misunderstand this.

Annabelle did not tell you the truth about vows, Morgan did.
 
Rukia said:
I would like to note, since people seem to continually misunderstand this.

Annabelle did not tell you the truth about vows, Morgan did.
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Yes, that much is true.

However, it was Annabelle who had drawn attention to it, by calling it with the full name of False Vow. She set up events in a way that would lead to our falling out with Karen - and Rukia, I hold no illusions whatsoever - the only reason Annabelle didn't tell us, is because Morgan was there to tell us first. Because we would have asked for clarification either way.
 
Faraway-R said:
However, it was Annabelle who had drawn attention to it, by calling it with the full name of False Vow. She set up events in a way that would lead to our falling out with Karen - and Rukia, I hold no illusions whatsoever - the only reason Annabelle didn't tell us, is because Morgan was there to tell us first. Because we would have asked for clarification either way.
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You attribute to her being a chessmaster based on what exactly? Girl was dead tired at the time.

It is probably generally known as a False Vow, but no one around Cerys ever brought up the topic, so it went unnoticed so far.
 
Faraway-R said:
However, it was Annabelle who had drawn attention to it, by calling it with the full name of False Vow. She set up events in a way that would lead to our falling out with Karen - and Rukia, I hold no illusions whatsoever - the only reason Annabelle didn't tell us, is because Morgan was there to tell us first. Because we would have asked for clarification either way.
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This is something I don't understand. Even if Annabelle planned to use Karen lying to Cerys to drive a wedge between them, how exactly makes that Karen lying to Cerys any better?
 
Also Annabelle is not a mage, and probably called it a 'false Vow' as part of a gambit to try and make us trust less?

Seriously people! Cerys did already get told this, by people in clocktower. By freaking MORGAN. This is not new information to us the players, nor is it actually indicative of any malice on Karen's part!

Everyone voting for 'what else have you lied to me about' is overreacting by a country mile and escalating completely unnecessarily.
 
Spectral Waltz said:
Also Annabelle is not a mage, and probably called it a 'false Vow' as part of a gambit to try and make us trust less?

Seriously people! Cerys did already get told this, by people in clocktower. By freaking MORGAN. This is not new information to us the players, nor is it actually indicative of any malice on Karen's part!

Everyone voting for 'what else have you lied to me about' is overreacting by a country mile and escalating completely unnecessarily.
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Or, you know, actually acting in character?
 
*shrug*

Approaching the matter aggressively puts pressure on Karen, allows her less time to think, and may throw her off-balance. It's hardly a purely bad thing, no matter what you think about her trustworthiness.
 
[X] Stay Silent
-[X] And actually listen to Karen's explanation

Going in hard would turn it into a bloody mess, for once she should give benefit of a doubt.
Adhoc vote count started by Jrin on Jan 31, 2018 at 9:38 PM, finished with 7446 posts and 17 votes.
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Let's think about this from Karen's perspective. What has she done wrong?

After Cerys was kidnapped by Gaia, she went to the next best option to take our place. She had no reason to think we would come back, and no real steps to take to actively get us back. After that, we're really angry. For, uh, reasons? So we want some kind of guarantee that our sister will be protected even if we die. The best promise she can give is a magical oath, which basically means that she has to be telling the truth when she makes it. That she does plan on keeping it. Hell, she probably planned on doing it even before we asked- I could absolutely see the her training an orphan up as a support member of the organization, who would get to do a bunch of low-risk jobs while learning magic, with the organization ready to defend her like any other member.

What she gave us is not insignificant, and I don't think she could have possibly given us any better assurance than she did. After all, she gave us a magically-backed statement of intent.

I think she's entirely trustworthy regarding her interactions with us. And only us. Yes, she obviously wants our trust. It would help her, whenever some random person with an obvious agenda casts aspersions on her character, making it so she doesn't have to drop whatever she's doing to go get accused of being a liar before she can defend herself by some unhinged, overpowered idiot.

If we didn't choose to learn about normal magic, and instead trained up our Gaia bullshit, that's our choice. We did that.

The only thing that would be a problem was if she actually used mind-altering magic on us. Which is why I want to ask about that, under a magical oath for truth, after letting her get her two cents in. Probably in the update after.
 
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It should be noted that Karen gave us full access and power over the super secret magical weapons and let us eat them.
If she was planning on going back on her agreements doing such a thing would be... suicidal. Not to mention if we leave, we are going to end up taking all the other Magical girls with us, which if we want to have WW3 to be as small as possible would be the a best choice.
 
Spectral Waltz said:
Also Annabelle is not a mage, and probably called it a 'false Vow' as part of a gambit to try and make us trust less?
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Who uncovered Karen deceiving Cerys is completely irrelevant since it doesn't change the fact that Karen did in fact led Cerys to believe she gave an unbreakable vow.
Spectral Waltz said:
Seriously people! Cerys did already get told this, by people in clocktower. By freaking MORGAN. This is not new information to us the players, nor is it actually indicative of any malice on Karen's part!
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Cerys asked after an unbreakable vow and got instead a very breakable magical vow. A normal person would tell her that such does not exist and offer a geass instead which can be broken, but would have consequences for the one breaking it.
She did not only not inform Cerys of the impossibility of an unbreakable guarantee, she didn't even give her the closest equivalent to it.
Naron said:
Point is, "Geas" is probably the closest one can get to unbreakable.
And yes, Karen knows about this.
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Karen did in fact not only take advantage of Cerys thinking that a magical vow is unbreakable, she actively created that misunderstanding by acting like she did give Cerys what she asked for.
Rukia said:
Alright then. No more alluding, I want this done with. You take a fortifying breath and start. "Give me an unbreakable guarantee that my sister will be cared for to the best of your, or if you die, your most trusted persons ability."

Her reply is quick and sharp. "Hold out your hand." You stare at her for a second, taking in the way her eyes have almost completely iced over, her magic actually pressing out in a slightly impressive manner. You hold your hand before her.
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I also got the impression that the vow was about making sure that Una was cared for in case of Cerys demise, but the magical vow would only inform a very dead Cerys of Karen breaking her vow if that happened.

Interesting to note, even if not evidence, is that later on Gilbert even commented that Karen not giving Cerys a basic education in magic was strange unless she were 'playing at something'.
Rukia said:
You nod, surprised at his words. "Kind of? I got some basic lessons for my sword and hand to hand."

He lets out a loud huff, shaking his head as he leans back and speaks to himself. "What're you playin at Karen? This aint the time for your dickwaving contest."
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A basic magical education would have uncovered the magical vow as breakable, so it would be a reason to prevent Cerys from getting such a basic education, but a requirement would be that Karen was aware of tricking Cerys.
 
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