Into that Vast and Unrelenting Darkness (40K Xeno Civilization Quest)

[KNM]

Given how arguably the Navis Imperialis is the most dangerous part of the Imperial forces for us, I'd say we go for it.

We've either got technological parity or even advantage with the Imperium, and we've got a ton of sorcery and other outside of context abilities and allies means that with a fleet and army of comparable size, we aren't doing bad.

The big issue is just how many ships the Imperium is willing to use to fight us and drown us in wave tactics even our robots and allies can't compete with.

 

[blankmask]

One thing I will note, Seawarp is only really effective on a more than marginal level on the imperium. No one else is going to kill peoples over being mutants, they're more likely to preform surgery on them if the mutation is detrimental. Chaos will probably shrug, the nids would eat the affected, and any Aeldari or Necrons will shrug it off largely.

Yes the imperium is our primary enemy and a behemoth, but sea warp is only really effective on them for the cost. It'd be better from a purely logistical standpoint to invest in a different option. At least long term, and other options would probably give similar benefits in the short term anyway. With less moral issues to boot.

 

[nintendoplayer96]

So we either use a curse that'll very well damage the Navis (and break our morale boundaries somewhat) or we choose different types of weapons

I mean… I don't like the idea of this curse but at the same time, it'll save many lives on our side… a necessary evil just so we have a chance.

 

[Citrakayah]

So we either use a curse that'll very well damage the Navis (and break our morale boundaries somewhat) or we choose different types of weapons

I mean… I don't like the idea of this curse but at the same time, it'll save many lives on our side… a necessary evil just so we have a chance.

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It's not a necessary evil. It's an unnecessary evil you're telling yourself is necessary because you're scared--like all unnecessary evils. The Imperial Navy hasn't even been a significant foe so far, but you're assuming we need to compromise our morals like this against a foe that hasn't even materialized yet.

 

[KNM]

It's not a necessary evil. It's an unnecessary evil you're telling yourself is necessary because you're scared--like all unnecessary evils. The Imperial Navy hasn't even been a significant foe so far, but you're assuming we need to compromise our morals like this against a foe that hasn't even materialized yet.

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It's not like "call reinforcements" or "assemble enormous fleet" is hard to deduce.

Fact is, even if we achieve technological and mystical superiority, the Imperium can keep throwing ships full of bodies at us unless a nearby calamity takes their attention.

Causing Warpstorms to essentially barricade and isolate a system is cool and all, but Warpstorms tend to be pretty indiscriminate.

 

[nintendoplayer96]

It's not a necessary evil. It's an unnecessary evil you're telling yourself is necessary because you're scared--like all unnecessary evils. The Imperial Navy hasn't even been a significant foe so far, but you're assuming we need to compromise our morals like this against a foe that hasn't even materialized yet.

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Imperial Navy completely outnumbers us by a long shot and outgunned as well.

I'm just saying that sometimes, war decisions aren't the cleanest or most ethical. I do agree that the curse is just outright evil, yet I see the potiental in it.

I don't care either way if the curse is picked or not, I'm neutral with it. All I'm saying if there's a time we're forced into a corner and need to do desperate measures, then this is a potential go to

 

[Lord4StarCommand]

Now more than ever I'm convinced that we should do Shell of Stormkraken, Moby Monstro Observation Assigment and SeaWarp Mutation.


As Bird mentioned about SeaWarp, they are apocalyptic Space Fascists, with over a million worlds while we have even less worlds than the Tau Empire and they are considered as a minor faction so we have to exploite every weaknesses and crack we can in order to survive longterm because let's be honest the Imperium has trillions to spare on us and will not run out of meat anytime soon.

Is SeaWarp mutarion terrible? Fuck yes, but so as rad mutation which unlike SeaWarp mutation is harder to cure and before you say there is no need? I would say there is because seeing their own surviving forces mutated would decline their morale very significantly and it will be spread across forces thus any new crusades or forces that comes in would get a taste of what is like fucking us over.

 

[undead frog]

Given how arguably the Navis Imperialis is the most dangerous part of the Imperial forces for us, I'd say we go for it.

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I have to sort of agree on this front... but not just because it makes the Imperial Navy physically kill each other, it also rots away at them on an ideological level as seen by more and more dissent fermenting on the ship as people events go on.

.... Regardless I'm of mixed feelings because while the mutation is affective the things Imperials will do to their own at the sight of mutation is horrific and my question on the matter comes to this.

Do the consequences for the crew members affected by Seawarp outweigh the consequences for the people those crewmen will later go and help genocide later on? Because short of killing the entire imperial force every time those ships/crew will be moved to a new fleet/front and go onto kill more people.

 

[Lord4StarCommand]

It is a question on who will suffer? Us and more worlds genocided for not fitting their obscene definition of purity? Or them?
Not to sugar coat it because there is nothing glorious about this but if it means saving countless civilizations over their lives, then my stand is clear, afterward whatever cruelty that happens on the laborers will be Imperium's own fault because they will suffer either way, I would even argue they suffer more even without the SeaWarp considerings they work 24 hours a day not even have enough penny to buy a bread in most hazardous environmenrs with no protection and any incompetence or decline of efficiency will be answered by them being lobotomized into mindless drones.

 

[w34v3r]

Don't see why Orks will get an advantage but Chaos… they'll either love it or hate it depending on the follower. Last thing we need are Chaos dudes asking us for the 'Squidward' special.

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Well not so much an advantage, but the Ork brain would easily come to the conclusion that being fishy means that the water isn't a problem anymore cause fish are supposed to be in water. I imagine it would at minimum render the whole exercise moot, and in a worst case scenario lead to Orks overrunning the oceans of planets instead of just the dry surface.

Chaos would likely try to go with the ritual in exchange for more powerful mutations, and when it comes to sea life there's something for everyone down there.

Yeah, here's the thing: We have other weapons. It might cost more points to get the same effect (in terms of a hit to their capabilities) but that's something we can accomplish.

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Maybe, but we're likely several actions in multiple chains and fleet overhauls away from that tier of 'fuck the corpse lickers'. If we have to deal with any actual effort on the imperium's part in the next couple centuries I doubt we'll have a better tool.

 

[undead frog]

It is a question on who will suffer? Us and more worlds genocided for not fitting their obscene definition of purity? Or them?
Not to sugar coat it because there is nothing glorious about this but if it means saving countless lives over their lives, then my stand is clear, afterward whatever cruelty that happens on the laborers will be Imperium's own fault because they will suffer either way, I would even argue they suffer more even without the SeaWarp considerings they work 24 hours a day not even have enough penny to buy a bread in most hazardous environmenrs with no protection and any incompetence or decline of efficiency will be answered by them being lobotomized into mindless drones.

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I would not go that far the Imperiums treatment of mutants is extremely horrid, even more so than the already second class citizen abhumans ... ie I think the only 'improvement' on that front is that while Abhumans can be turned into Servitors we never see the Imperium inflict Servitorization/penitent engines/arco flaggellelation on out and out movements.

.... Mind you those three fates are sufficently aweful that not being applicable for any of them would be an advantage but not enough of one to outnumber the many, many, many disadvantages.

 

[KNM]

Now more than ever I'm convinced that we should do Shell of Stormkraken, Moby Monstro Observation Assigment and SeaWarp Mutation.


As Bird mentioned about SeaWarp, they are apocalyptic Space Fascists, with over a million worlds while we have even less worlds than the Tau Empire and they are considered as a minor faction so we have to exploite every weaknesses and crack we can in order to survive longterm because let's be honest the Imperium has trillions to spare on us and will not run out of meat anytime soon.

Is SeaWarp mutarion terrible? Fuck yes, but so as rad mutation which unlike SeaWarp mutation is harder to cure and before you say there is no need? I would say there is because seeing their own surviving forces mutated would decline their morale very significantly and it will be spread across forces thus any new crusades or forces that comes in would get a taste of what is like fucking us over.

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Same, Storm Krakens and Void Whale summoning are awesome.

And yeah, we're even tinier than the t'au so, and the Imperium could drown us in bodies if they get dedicated to it, so a tech line to cripple the Imperial Navy is gonna be very useful.

Those troops and ships aren't gonna be much help if the crew are tearing each other apart and the ship itself is transforming into something straight out of the depths of the ocean.

 

[StarSingerBlue]

de programming captured Imperials took a generation, and even with that it was mostly thanks to their children being raised away from Imperial programming and raised with Directorate values.

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I'd like to point out those were Imperial Guard; if they volunteered to be part of the PDF they were already pretty loyal to the Imperium, being selected to be part of the IG means they were likely more fanatical than the rest of the PDF, considering a good chunk of military training IRL is indoctrination the same probably goes for the PDF/IG, and they are having that indoctrination constantly reinforced by their Ministers and Commissars.
They're also treated much better than your average citizen, with pay and the promise of land.

There's a significant difference between them and « random labourer who wants to feed their kids, and maybe get a day off, who goes to church when they can, and who will probably side with us out of a sense of preservation if the Imperium starts pulling bullshit »

 

[w34v3r]

Something else to keep in mind: the larger imperial ships often have mutant populations in the nethers of the ships already, they've gone fully tribal in a lot of cases, any imperial ship we break or find drifting, probably needs to be gone over with a fine toothed comb, and then carefully recycled for mats.

 

[undead frog]

Something else to keep in mind: the larger imperial ships often have mutant populations in the nethers of the ships already, they've gone fully tribal in a lot of cases, any imperial ship we break or find drifting, probably needs to be gone over with a fine toothed comb, and then carefully recycled for mats.

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Really you'd think the Imperium would be more careful about exposing its population to possibly mutating substances given how it supposedly hates mutation.

.... Oh wait only lower class people have to deal with that anyway.

Welp no one said their hatred of mutation had to only be an anti-chaos mechanism when it doubles just as much for them as a way to dehumanize those in the lowest rungs even further.

 

[w34v3r]

Yeah, especially since they have the ability to discern chaos taint from normal mutations. Whether they can pick out chaos from general warp taint is a little less clear.

 

[KNM]

Yeah, especially since they have the ability to discern chaos taint from normal mutations. Whether they can pick out chaos from general warp taint is a little less clear.

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Probably not, the Imperium's horrendous living conditions and zealotry makes a lot of mutants being Chaos a self fulfilling prophecy.

Hives are such gargantuan, horribly maintained places that you genuinely have feral mutants and primitive societies in the Underhives or in ships, for any mutant that still have their mental faculties Imperials consider mutation a spiritual taint and sin, regardless of cause.

Probably the only ones that bother to check if it's regular mutation or Chaos are Inquisitors. Either way, a lot of the time, it's just gonna be burning at the stake or in death camps worked to death

 

[Voidseer]

I am personally of the opinion that the seawarp upgrade is just not worth it, not just yet anyway. It a big time godzilla threashold weapon that we are not near to needing yet. The value is undeniable but the horrable cost is more then undeniable, it would mean that we as the Directorate would take at laest a few steps closer to being like the Imperium/Chaos (victory at whatever cost and damn the moral/ethical consequenses). I would rather we not do such.

 

[w34v3r]

Probably not, the Imperium's horrendous living conditions and zealotry makes a lot of mutants being Chaos a self fulfilling prophecy.

Hives are such gargantuan, horribly maintained places that you genuinely have feral mutants and primitive societies in the Underhives or in ships, for any mutant that still have their mental faculties Imperials consider mutation a spiritual taint and sin, regardless of cause.

Probably the only ones that bother to check if it's regular mutation or Chaos are Inquisitors. Either way, a lot of the time, it's just gonna be burning at the stake or in death camps worked to death

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I never said they bothered most of the time, I said they had the ability. They're just so shitty that they don't care.

 

[ilbgar123]

With the knowledge that we can just send a Pioneer to existing colonies to build them up some more, I present an Yr Albain Plan. This is a Meme Plan.

Plan: Yr Albain
EXP: 173/173.
Construct Pioneer Class Ship 0/20->140/20.
-Yr Albain.
Flames of Naklis 0/25->25/25. -1 BIO.
OOG-87's MicroSingularity 8/25->16/25.

The original Yr Albain colony was effectively a set of Herd-Temples meant to feed Yr Albain's Lifeforce stockpile and the uses that would have for them. Bird has mentioned that more Pioneers can be used to build up a colony, a generic 'build up' action of sorts. 7 Pioneers should make it into something like Orbital City One, I would think, and probably provide enough excess Lifeforce to significantly buff the Wings' time away from Yr Albain. Not to mention the Flames buffing the Wings as well. Might unlock something to further cheapen Pioneers from doing this many too.

CUL: 148/148.
Construct MothaShip Class Ship 0/15->45/15.
Intergalaktik Bookmobile Kompartment 0/25->25/25.
Rare Gubbinz Flea Market Kompartment 0/25->25/25.
Sandscorn Water Park 13/25->21/25.
Winterspite Battlezone Lodging 5/25->25/25.
Cloudsailing Resort 0/25->25/25. +2 Yr Albain Rep.

Well, there isn't much in CUL for Yr Albain, and even counting Winterspite projects as their due to them being allies of Albain, that's literally one other project, since Intel is kind of at a premium. So, (upgraded)MothaShips to patrol the area, seeing as anti-piracy also benefits Yr Albain, because it benefits everybody! Battlezone Lodging to help keep Winterspite happy, and Cloudsailing to give the Exodites some leisure time activities.

FTH: 155/158.
Rite of War 0/10->10/10.
Rite of Natures Wrath 0/20->20/20.
Rite of Natures Protection 0/20->20/20.
Rite of Natures Breath 0/20->20/20.
Rite of Natures Cleansing 0/20->20/20.
Ritual of Lifes Renewal 0/20->20/20. +10 Khimer Rep.
Rite of Lifes Cleansing 0/20->20/20.
Rite of Electric Force 0/20->20/20.
Blessings of the Swarm 0/5->5/5.

FTH is easy, despite the dearth of 'proper' Yr Albain actions, since all the Rituals are duplicated for them, meaning they all technically count. Though I prioritized Nature Rites for obvious reasons. I suspect that, for example, using Renewal to buff the nature on a planet and then chaining it into other Nature Rites would be a common tactic. War is obviously helpful when going to war, and Nature's Wrath is likely to be something they actively spread to other Maiden Worlds because of how much it buffs their home ground advantage. Nature's Protection sounds like it should fit right into their Warding scheme. Nature's Breath, meanwhile, sounds amazing for rapidly repairing stuff like 'a forest that took a thousand years to grow' in a Quest-relevant timeframe, not to mention helping push the Directorate along towards being able to feed a Hive World, while Cleansing sounds amazing for Exodite healthcare. Electric Force might be of use in powering the Wings, if the Eyes can power it with solar energy. It's not like the Electric Rite's electricity won't be mystical in nature. Blessings of the Swarm should also be something they get a lot of use out of, since rats and insects are probably some of the only living things that are still alive on Hive Worlds. Plus doing 9 Rites is almost certainly going to offer some kind of Rite buff project.

ACD: 110/125.
Sandscorn Pilot Gene-Recombination 0/25->25/25. +2 Khimer Rep. +1 Coffin Fleet INF.
Devourer Warforme Study 0/25->25/25. +1 BIO.
Heart of Erichtheo 0/35->35/35. -1 ART.
Nàdair Spáslong 0/25->25/25. -1 BIO.

Khimer gain Pilots for their industrial project, as Renewal in FTH is their bio project, and Warforme Study helps pay for the BIO the Plan uses. Heart is another Wing buff, while Nadair buffs Exodites in general with bioships.

Resource Management
Artifacts: 2->1.
Biodata: 3->2.
Intel: 0
Living Metal: 0
Network: 6
Nuclear Material: 0
Warp: 7

 

[w34v3r]

I'd rather spend exp on doing specific build ups, general ones seem kind of meh.

 

[Citrakayah]

I think having a massive wave of immigration like that might be rocky--two or three Pioneers a turn at most is what I'd be willing to spend. Get more deep space scanning and do some other useful items in EXP.

 

[ilbgar123]

I think having a massive wave of immigration like that might be rocky--two or three Pioneers a turn at most is what I'd be willing to spend. Get more deep space scanning and do some other useful items in EXP.

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On our end or on Yr Albain's end? Because I was under the impression they didn't care about their orbit, and that it was basically the mystical equivalent of the Coffin Fleet service station the Coffin Fleet colony would be. It's meant to come after the Nuke Ascendance plan and it's followup at very least anyway.

 

[Woltaire]

On our end or on Yr Albain's end? Because I was under the impression they didn't care about their orbit, and that it was basically the mystical equivalent of the Coffin Fleet service station the Coffin Fleet colony would be. It's meant to come after the Nuke Ascendance plan and it's followup at very least anyway.

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yah I think it be fine they prob love more of a shield between them and space, Plus more
support to the wings

 

[w34v3r]

I don't really see a point. If it's meant to be several turns down the line then the contractually obligated yr-albain support actions should continue the build up for us, and by they time we won't need to spend a ton of points on build up.