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Infernal Conundrum: [Exalted/Worm] - Part 2: Hell is Other Exalts

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Nah, it's cool. I've calmed some. The actual debate and discussion now is what I'd wanted out of the vote in the first place. I'm still cogitating on the assignments. If people want to continue debating in the vein discussed on this page? That'd actually make me happy. I feel like they actually get what I was trying to say in the instructions and attempted clarifications, which makes me feel less crazy.

Also, if anyone wants to make my day, Omake is always welcome. Taylor will even get xp for it (/not-so-subtle-hint)
 
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...So...how about them cannibalism charms?

Seriously, what the hell is going on with Metagaos? I just thought they were a intuitive wallflower with plans. The whole cannibalism thing kinda makes me worried.
 
Thief of Words said:
It's fine. Honestly, I'm thinkingI'm going to try out doing future build voting where I provide options for purchase, and players choose how to spend the XP they have between them. I don't like feeling like I have to do that, but I've had to have the same three or so arguments with the same four or so players EVERY TIME A BUILD VOTE CAME UP. And I'm more than a little sick of it. I get if people don't agree with me. That's your prerogative. But saying no and it sticking is mine.
I don't like feeling like I have to put my foot down. I don't like conflict. I don't like telling people no. I'm usually far more Laissez faire as a QM/ST/DM, and the constant refusal to accept the rationale provided makes this significantly more stressful to write for me. I wanted the discussion threads to include analysis of story stuff, comments on that, spitballing and etc. But most of the last 30 pages have been build arguments. I honestly have no idea on a lot of the story posts if people really enjoyed it, or if they're just waiting for me to shut up so they can get back to bickering over charm selection, and that really friggin hurts.
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To be honest, I've found that for quests... there is a simple solution... build characters based on personality/whatever that is voted on.

ie if the PC is a bad-ass fist mc-punching vampire, she gets good combat stats, not so good stats at other stuff like intelligent based stuff or whatever.

Give hard numbers if you will... but don't have people pick out numbers and individual powers to be voted on.
 
kokuenDG said:
...So...how about them cannibalism charms?

Seriously, what the hell is going on with Metagaos? I just thought they were a intuitive wallflower with plans. The whole cannibalism thing kinda makes me worried.
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He's Dio Brando meets Predator meets the notional embodiment of Hunger and Fecundity.
 
kokuenDG said:
...So...how about them cannibalism charms?

Seriously, what the hell is going on with Metagaos? I just thought they were a intuitive wallflower with plans. The whole cannibalism thing kinda makes me worried.
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Other way around actually, they're a massive flesh eating toxic swamp, and the wallflower charms are its way of being subtle so as to lure food in.

at least, that's what I remember from the canon description, though them being one of the minor Yozi without any canon charms means there wasn't really much written about them. there's also the fact that using a fan-made re-write so as to actually have charms may have changed the details some, so take what I remember with a grain of salt.
 
Xyzarach said:
Other way around actually, they're a massive flesh eating toxic swamp, and the wallflower charms are its way of being subtle so as to lure food in.

at least, that's what I remember from the canon description, though them being one of the minor Yozi without any canon charms means there wasn't really much written about them. there's also the fact that using a fan-made re-write so as to actually have charms may have changed the details some, so take what I remember with a grain of salt.
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You remember rightly.
 
kokuenDG said:
...So...how about them cannibalism charms?

Seriously, what the hell is going on with Metagaos? I just thought they were a intuitive wallflower with plans. The whole cannibalism thing kinda makes me worried.
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Metagaos is, fundamentally, the law of the jungle. This is both literal and figurative.

Shadow Stalker would make a perfect Metagaos-favored Malefactor.
 
If we are discussing favored Yozi then I may as well explain why I think Adorjan makes more sense for Taylor than Malfeas. Adorjan is all about escaping one's problems and personal hangups rather than dwelling on them. The only time Malfeas can distract himself from his pain is when he is dancing and as far as I am aware those charms aren't even on the table though if @Thief of Words ever feels like changing that I would be happy to reconsider. As for Kimbery and Isidoros I just feel like major parts of their personality (mostly the breakdown/buildup and willpower aspects). I think others have already explained why Metagaos is a poor fit even if the wallflower aspects work.
 
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Psuedo Nym said:
If we are discussing favored Yozi then I may as well explain why I think Adorjan makes more sense for Taylor than Malfeas. Adorjan is all about escaping one's problems and personal hangups rather than dwelling on them.
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After all, Taylor's reaction when she finds out she can't do anything against the trio without ruining Danny is to see if the Undersiders are doing anything. Combine that with running, whether she did it because she liked it or because she wanted to stave off depression symptoms both reasons are still Adorjani, and yeah Taylor definitely has some Adorjan in her.
 
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Psuedo Nym said:
If we are discussing favored Yozi then I may as well explain why I think Adorjan makes more sense for Taylor than Malfeas. Adorjan is all about escaping one's problems and personal hangups rather than dwelling on them. The only time Malfeas can distract himself from his pain is when he is dancing and as far as I am aware those charms aren't even on the table though if @Thief of Words ever feels like changing that I would be happy to reconsider. As for Kimbery and Isidoros I just feel like major parts of their personality (mostly the breakdown/buildup and willpower aspects). I think others have already explained why Metagaos is a poor fit even if the wallflower aspects work.
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Are you kididng? Beauty without Malice is part of why Malfeas is on the table as favored in the first place. One of my biggest concerns about including him was a mechanical one: outside of deciding to steal a page from THE TECHNO QUEEN!'s playbook, Malfeas' excellency is useless to Taylor.

The anger issues? They aren't. At all. In fact, I mentioned them in the original vote post as a balancing argument AGAINST Malfeas. The same way I did Kimbery's bitterness. And Metagaos' gluttony. Taylor's anger is like SWLiHN's. It's there, but it is firmly controlled and deeply repressed until she snaps, at which point a solid chunk of the core concepts of the setting (the 3 Spheres Cataclysm / Alexandria is indestructible) suddenly no longer apply, she did so much damage to things everyone took for granted.

There's a reason in my Omake, Taylor went full Kimbery-hate and Malfeas-rage. And that's the sort of impetus that threshold would require for her to cross it. Jack killed Danny. While Taylor watched, helpless.

Oh. Thought about it. really don't see Socialize making sense as a favored ability. Replaced it with Athletics, moved a dot from the one to the other in keeping with the intention of keeping socialize low initially.

Also: Taylor will start with Past Lives 2 by default. There is the option for Past Lives 2-5, but each dot past 2 must be bought by a point of Throwback. Savant is at a 1 and may be raised by spending xp, but is capped at Past Lives rating.
 
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Thief of Words said:
Are you kididng? Beauty without Malice is part of why Malfeas is on the table as favored in the first place. One of my biggest concerns about including him was a mechanical one: outside of deciding to steal a page from THE TECHNO QUEEN!'s playbook, Malfeas' excellency is useless to Taylor.

The anger issues? They aren't. At all. In fact, I mentioned them in the original vote post as a balancing argument AGAINST Malfeas. The same way I did Kimbery's bitterness. And Metagaos' gluttony. Taylor's anger is like SWLiHN's. It's there, but it is firmly controlled and deeply repressed until she snaps, at which point a solid chunk of the core concepts of the setting (the 3 Spheres Cataclysm / Alexandria is indestructible) suddenly no longer applies.
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Well then dancing demon dervish is one of my favorite concepts when it comes to charm interactions so you have at least one person who would like any possible combination, though some of them are bound to be mechanically unusual. On a related note if we do end up going malfeas then could we use Through the Fire and the Flames in a collective dance battle against any of the Endbringers because a small army of capes DANCING through Leviathan's or Behemoth's "environmental hazards" would be awesome
 
Carrnage said:
Eh, That's just the window dressing over her core rationalisation that as long as she's the victimiser she won't be a victim, it's so delightfully Ebon Dragon.
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No. That's Emma you're thinking on that one. Shadow-Stalker has a persistent Emotion effect making her angry from her Agent/Passenger, and despises those too weak to save themselves because the other alternative is to feel despair over Stephen (Steven?).

Meanwhile her m.o. is to infect others with her opinions and outlooks, making them into extensions of herself. Very metagaos-like.
 
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Psuedo Nym said:
Well then dancing demon dervish is one of my favorite concepts when it comes to charm interactions so you have at least one person who would like any possible combination, though some of them are bound to be mechanically unusual. On a related note if we do end up going malfeas then could we use Through the Fire and the Flames in a collective dance battle against any of the Endbringers because a small army of capes DANCING through Leviathan's or Behemoth's "environmental hazards" would be awesome
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Fun fact about Leviathan's environmental Hazards. Guess who has way too many thumb joints and is immune to non-magical water surface tension?
 
Just means she can survive it pretty well.
Unfortunately, without Sorcery, high Essence charms, Agg will probably be the only thing that can actually do some damage to it.
 
Thief of Words said:
Favored Yozi voting starts now. No write ins allowed. These are your options. Please don't just bandwagon. Actually think about how it would or wouldn't fit the story and Taylor as she is and as she wants to be. Do NOT vote based on build optimization ideas. She is not a Chosen of Chungira. I'm giving folks another chance actually show they can build vote responsibly. If I feel that's not being done, then I'll assign her two Favored Yozis, and we'll move on.
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You didn't say people had to state their reasoning, just that they had to have it. So people didn't ignore your instructions at all that I can see, you're just throwing a fit over nothing.
 
notanautomaton said:
You didn't say people had to state their reasoning, just that they had to have it. So people didn't ignore your instructions at all that I can see, you're just throwing a fit over nothing.
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Unless you actually state your reasons people are just going to assume that you have no reasons. Because, y'know, you never stated them.
 
notanautomaton said:
You didn't say people had to state their reasoning, just that they had to have it. So people didn't ignore your instructions at all that I can see, you're just throwing a fit over nothing.
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Absence of reasoning leads to the assumption of bandwagoning in the absence of further information and there was some degree of room to infer this with the requirement for in character charm justifications during charm selection, but you've got half a point bare minimum.
 
notanautomaton said:
If you're going to throw a fit over people not following directions, you should actually give them said directions.
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Not only did I, I did so several times.

"I'm giving folks another chance to actually show they can build vote responsibly. "

And then I gave repeated clarifications over the course of a solid five hours.
 
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