EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
[X] Sirrocco
In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)
Winged Knight
Still just a crazy man with a wolf on his head
- Location
- Texas
[x] Sirrocco.
Works for me! This is a very well thought out gift with multiple layers that sends a message to everyone in the room. It is, if I may be so bold, perhaps even archetypically Scorpion in its presentation and approach. As such, I cannot help but approve.
Works for me! This is a very well thought out gift with multiple layers that sends a message to everyone in the room. It is, if I may be so bold, perhaps even archetypically Scorpion in its presentation and approach. As such, I cannot help but approve.
Joyful_Overkill
satisfaction in knowing your enemy won't survive.
[X] Sirrocco
- Location
- London, England
Fun fact - the most famous Scorpion gardens are located in Shiro no Shosuro. After the Coup, the Eighteenth Imperial Legion was sent to secure the site. The Scorpion, not wanting their secrets to fall into the hands of outsiders, set fire to the castle to cover their retreat. Eventually, the fires spread to the gardens.
The smoke from the burning plants alone was sufficiently horrible as to kill a full fifth of the Legion when they strayed downwind.
Near as you can tell, everyone has brought their swords in. Some of the courtiers and the like have only their wakizashis, but absolutely everyone is armed.
Also! While I remember. For that impressively detailed analysis of an appropriate gift and all of the messages it can send, I have increased Soshi Naoto's Courtier skill to 3. Because damn, that is a lot of detail there.
That's an interesting statement they're making here. Everyone is an enemy? We've been calling the Lion part of the War faction, but it looks like the Matsu really don't want peace to break out.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Huh, wow, so we're now above average as a Courtier. What Attributes/Stats are directly tied to the Courtier skill?
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Courtier is off of awareness. Our courtier/awareness dice pool is now about what would be expected of the standard starting courtier or non-Daidoji Crane bushi.
Also... the "everyone is an enemy" thing.... No wonder the Otomo aren't pleased with them. At some point we might want to mention desiring to "earn the honor of a sword-polisher" or something similar (the wording might need work) - basically both saying that we hope to reach a point where they will not consider us an enemy, and pointing out that apparently, "not an enemy" is a high bar with the Matsu. In most courts, sword-polishers wouldn't be considered an honor to be earned.
Awesome. Glad you liked it.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Wow, hmm, we really did pick 'jack of all trades' didn't we? I mean, if we only just now reached 'average courtier' for that skill. I assume the upside of our build is that we're a little good at *everything*?
Being fair, I do love those two skills: Sage and Crab Hands or whatnot, I like characters that don't have massive flaws all over.
Last edited:
Sirrocco
Pedantic
You are misinterpreting, I think. The core courtier skills are Courtier, Sincerity, and etiquette. Bog-standard starting character courtiers will generally have 3 stat, 3 skill in each of those three. Bog-standard starting character courtiers aren't exactly generalists. Bushi don't tend to reach those levels until much later (if at all).
Also, we're not anything like jack of all trades. We're a loremaster build, and we're about as good at it as it is plausible for a starting character to be. Starting loremasters of our level are available to only a few clans, and are often odd family/school combos (our own Scorpion build, the Kaiu Engineers of the Crab, a Kitsu trained by the Ikoma Bards for the Lion, certain vassal families of the phoenix, and Otomo trained as Seppun Shugenja among the imperials). We're growing towards being a competent secondary courtier, and we're kind of poor at being a bushi (...other than the schtick of being able to pick up any weapon and use it at 4k3 - well enough that we don't embarrass ourselves).
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Understood. Apologies, I wasn't around for the character building, though I have been following along.
Incidentally, where do you see our future growth being? Currently the Quest seems relatively politics-heavy, but it's certainly quite possible that it could shift later on towards more combat-oriented problems. I do want to continue with the 'build up the courtier' thing, because I've liked that so far, but if relative to that our skill as a bushi suffers, it could be problematic if we're thrust into combat or danger.
It could be that they are declaring their intent to play hardball on the negotiating table with everyone. "The court is a battlefield" or something like that. Still pretty aggro, though.
If we try being a good courtier, loremaster and bushi we'd probably spread ourselves too thin. Hopefully even if we go courtier build we'll be able to talk our way out of trouble or recruit allies to compensate for our fighting skills. Or we could content ourselves with being a mediocre courtier and focus on developing dueling skills.
It would probably be best to let the developments in the story guide us, roleplay it to some extent as well. We don't have any XP to spend anyway, so the decision can be deferred until later, when we know more.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
No need to apologize.
Well, our first full arc is going to be winter court. Hopefully that means that we won't have too much in the way of actual combat to worry about (though with the Matsu...)
Basically, then, my thought would be to get our courtier abilities up to a respectable starting level, then shore up our weaknesse as a bushi, then work on building our strengths. Of course, others might have other ideas. If we want to focus on making the Matsu happy, for example, some of our court skills get a bit less important, and out martial skills get comparatively more important. Also, as @Jaertin notes, much of this is subject to events as they occur.
Given that, build priorities as I see them (in rough order of priority)
- Bring up our core courtier skills to 3 (Sincerity, Etiquette, and Investigation remain - 13 exp)
- Possibly nudge up some int-based court-applicable side skills, perhaps as high as 3 (Go comes to mind)
- Maybe pick up a point or two in some other non-lore int-based skills (medicine comes to mind)
- Build up whatever we need to be a decently competent duelist (iajutsu to at least 3. What else? Some stats to 3?)
- Pick up enough combat ability that we aren't embarrassing ourselves as Bushi (kenjutsu to 3. What else? Other stats to 3?)
- Int to 5.
- Awareness to 4.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Int 5 is the mental equivalent to Strength 5's 'can fight gods' (with the right skills on top) stuff, right? You mentioned it earlier, so I assume Int 5 would make us the smartest man in most rooms.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Pretty much, yes. We got a clearer indicator from what @Maugan Ra said about it, though. 5 is the top of normal human potential. Rokugani can and do exceed that - but when they do, it's because it's a major named character in an area of specialty, and they almost certainly have a few legendary feats that they've pulled off associated with that stat. It also costs something like 20 exp.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
On the topic of stats for Bushi,
- The stat that we need to up the most from the bushi perspective is Reflexes. This is because it not only increases our Armor TN and our initiative roll, our school technique also allows us to increase our Armor TN by 5 whenever our initiative is higher than our opponents. It's also useful for duels.
- Raising Agility up to 4 lets us really call ourselves a warrior scholar since we'll be rolling the same dice as our Lore skills. Having high Agility is also going to be wanted when we get our 2nd School Technique, which allows us to Feint for only one Raise.
-Void is generally useful, and also important for duelists. Raising it to 3 for competency is likely a given.
- Stamina and Strength are also important for us, but less so than the above ones. Raising them up to 3 would be nice, but not any kind of priority I imagine.
On the topic of stats for courtiers,
-Awareness is a given for us. It's the basis for nearly all social rolls.
-Perception also needs to be raised, mainly because it's used for certain Investigation rolls and lets us notice our surroundings better.
-Intelligence is low-priority due to how high it is already.
As for int-based skills that are useful for us, Calligraphy (Cipher), Commerce, and Medicine seem like good choices.
-Calligraphy (Cipher) allows us to use one cipher that has a deciphering TN equal to our Calligraphy/Intelligence roll. Making a strong cipher should be easy if we up Calligraphy to 2-3, chiefly because of our high Intelligence.
-Commerce can allow us to acquire lots of money and get information contacts.
-Medicine is useful for both poisoning and healing allies.
There are also some Low skills that we might find useful if we up Agility, such as Forgery, Lore (Underworld), and Sleight of Hand(Any Emphases).
-Forgery can allow us to get away with a lot of things if we're suitably discreet and don't use it often enough to attract attention.
- Lore (Underworld) is Intelligence based so automatic good rolls. Knowing who's who in the criminal underworld and having contacts there could also prove highly useful.
-Sleight of Hand has multiple emphases and each has certain uses. I'm mainly looking at Conceal and Pickpocket since one allows us to hide stuff easily and the other allows us to plant objects or steal things from somebody else, thus allowing us to possibly poison someone discreetly or frame them.
TL;DR, the stats I think we need to raise the most are
-Reflexes
-Awareness
-Agility
-Perception/Void
For skills, the three core Courtier skills raised up to 3 are definitely needed. Calligraphy (Cipher) doubles as a court-applicable skill with another practical use, so investing in that would be good. Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu are necessary investments if we decide to invest more in the Bushi path. Lore (Underworld), Forgery, and Commerce together could come in handy and let us play at being a mob boss/get an information network going if we're so inclined.
Last edited:
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'll add my two cents in an hour or so; largely I agree with things being said but I want to lay out my own thoughts (mobile typing is teh sadness). For sure though raising Air is first or second on the list.
Last edited:
1.15 - An exchange of gifts
- Location
- London, England
One by one, the various representatives are called forwards to present their gifts, under the watchful eyes of the Lion Clan and Otomo Kairyu - presumably they are either exempt from the tradition or will attend to it at a different time. You watch carefully, seeking to glean some insight into the delegates through their choice of gift.
Of course, there is also some degree of distraction offered by the gift that the Lion present to each delegate in turn. Each and every time, the Matsu present their guests with a tanto, a small knife often carried by Bushi on active duty. Giving a practical weapon to a samurai would normally be a serious insult, for it implies that their lord is incapable of providing for them, but according to the Lion each knife belonged to a Matsu warrior who died to battle against the 'Greatest Enemy' within the territory of the respective Clan. This... might still be an insult, you think, though there is enough of a grey area that no one is willing to challenge your hosts over it. Assuming that anyone would be so foolish anyway.
The Crab are invited up to the dais first, and their leader is introduced as Yasuki Mia. As a gift, she presents a small sculpture the size of a fist, carved into the shape of a roaring lion. Apparently the stone used as the base material came from the Kaiu Wall, and is intended to symbolize the strength of the Lion in defending Rokugan. Matsu Ketsui looks pleased by this.
The Dragon delegate, Mirumoto Masaru, offers a small painting that he himself created. It depicts a Lioness in the middle of a charging leap, pouncing on a group of disheveled looking ronin - bandits, perhaps. The Matsu daimyo casts a faintly challenging look in your direction as the painting is displayed, and you note that the predominant colours among the ronin are red and black. The surface message seems obvious... but you cannot help but notice that one of the ronin has a spear braced against a rock and aimed at the Lioness' heart.
The gift of the Unicorn is not a material item. Instead, their ambassador Ide Taka offers the services of his retainer, Utaku Sui, to train the Daimyo's sons in the heavy cavalry warfare favoured by his Clan. It is a bold move, especially when a caveat is attached that the boys will only be allowed to retain their Unicorn-bred steeds if they prove worthy of them, and you can hear numerous fans clicking open around the hall as courtiers and Bushi alike conceal their shock. Matsu Ketsui merely smiles and thanks the Unicorn for their gift, however, and you make a mental note - it seems that framing the offer as a challenge of martial skill for her family to overcome was sufficient to win approval.
It is at this point that Ikoma Genji summons the Scorpion to the dais. Kimoko rises, and you go with her, holding your Clan's gift in a careful grasp. The box is beautifully made, and the decoration in the lid is truly superb, though you do notice the Crab twitch slightly when they catch sight of the small amounts of Jade worked into the design. Kimoko bows low to the daimyo, and you mimic her as best you can with your arms full.
"Honoured Host, we would like to present you with this selection of herbs and spices from the gardens of the Shosuro family." Kimoko says smoothly. "Let it be a symbol of all that the Lion fought to protect, for without the sacrifices of the Matsu family there would be no place to grow such things in the desolate wasteland our beloved homeland would become."
For all her reputed temper and fiery spirit, Matsu Ketsui is too disciplined and traditionalist to allow her feelings to register in her expression or voice. She looks over the box, her gaze lingering on the depiction of Toturi that dominates the decorations on the lid. "A most generous gift, but one I cannot in good conscience accept. The Lion do not defend Rokugan because we desire reward, but because it is our sworn duty."
"None can question the motivations of the Lion Clan in this matter - the strength of your dedication to duty is well known to all." Kimoko replies, moving through the traditional forms of offer and refusal. "Please, accept this gift as freely given."
"Your words are undeniable, yet surely such plants would be of more use in restoring your own lands." The Daimyo says, the slightest hint of a barb behind her words. "I had heard that the gardens of the Shosuro sustained significant damage recently."
Kimoko smiles like a shark. "Not at all, Matsu-sama. The Shosuro herbalists are quite skilled, and I have been assured that their gardens are in full health once again. These samples come from our year's surplus."
The Matsu pauses at that, trying to read the truth behind your words, but Kimoko has an expression as smooth as the mask she wears and you don't know enough to determine the truth of your leader's statement. After a moment's hesitation, the daimyo inclines her head. "In which case we thank you for your gift, and will be sure to display it prominently, where the message it bears can be freely observed."
As the daimyo and your superior bow to each other, you concern yourself with handing over the gift to the low-ranking samurai who moves forwards to take it. That done, you return to your positions, taking a moment to observe the reactions of your fellow delegates. Otomo Kairyu clearly understood the messages there, and judging by the gleam in his eye he fully approves. Likewise, the Doji and Kakita representatives are hiding pleased smiles behind their fans, and while the Yasuki is too disciplined to reveal much the whole Crab delegation practically radiates amusement. Everyone else appears largely bland, though you do note that the Phoenix courtier appears somewhat concerned.
From there, the exchange of gifts moves on to the Mantis, represented by Yoritomo Harike, who presents a golden spyglass much like the ones used by their sailors to view distant sights. You suspect there might be an insult of some sort there, but the courtier is smooth enough to avoid any trouble and the eyeglass is beautifully decorated and thus can pass as a work of art rather than anything practical. Still, you cannot help but notice the way that the Wasp Clan Yojimbo looks quietly pleased by this, and the sight reminder you of the vicious grudge the minor clan bears against the Lion... and the Scorpion.
Finally, the Crane are called up... and bring with them nothing at all. There is considerable tension in the hall as Doji Mariko presses her forehead to the ground before the Matsu and offers her sincere apologies for the lack of a gift. Apparently the Crane lands are currently in too poor a state to offer anything worthy of being presented to the honourable Matsu family, and they did not wish to offer insult by bringing something substandard. Mariko even mentions a few places that the Crane lands that she would normally search for such a gift, each of which is unfortunately still badly damaged from the war... and, if you remember correctly, in such a state because of particularly vicious Lion attacks.
You half suspect that you could cut the air with your blade if you were to draw it now, such is the tension. Doji Mariko's excuse seems perfectly honest and sincere, and it is well known that the Crane lands were indeed rather badly damaged, but it would not exactly be difficult to interpret the Crane's actions as a rather severe insult. Eventually, though, Matsu Ketsui accepts the excuse with a sharp nod, and the Crane return to their seats.
"Honoured guests, we thank you for your patience." Ikoma Genji says in a loud voice, stepping forwards to smooth over the sudden tension. "For the next two hours, I shall be available to consult with any of you about the upcoming schedule, after which I will announce the itinerary. In the mean time, please, feel free to mingle and converse with one another."
Who do you wish to do?
[ ] Speak with one of the other delegates - which?
[ ] Speak with Ikoma Genji
[ ] Speak with one of the Lion guests.
[ ] Position yourself in the hall and allow those interested in conversation to approach you.
[ ] Write in
Of course, there is also some degree of distraction offered by the gift that the Lion present to each delegate in turn. Each and every time, the Matsu present their guests with a tanto, a small knife often carried by Bushi on active duty. Giving a practical weapon to a samurai would normally be a serious insult, for it implies that their lord is incapable of providing for them, but according to the Lion each knife belonged to a Matsu warrior who died to battle against the 'Greatest Enemy' within the territory of the respective Clan. This... might still be an insult, you think, though there is enough of a grey area that no one is willing to challenge your hosts over it. Assuming that anyone would be so foolish anyway.
The Crab are invited up to the dais first, and their leader is introduced as Yasuki Mia. As a gift, she presents a small sculpture the size of a fist, carved into the shape of a roaring lion. Apparently the stone used as the base material came from the Kaiu Wall, and is intended to symbolize the strength of the Lion in defending Rokugan. Matsu Ketsui looks pleased by this.
The Dragon delegate, Mirumoto Masaru, offers a small painting that he himself created. It depicts a Lioness in the middle of a charging leap, pouncing on a group of disheveled looking ronin - bandits, perhaps. The Matsu daimyo casts a faintly challenging look in your direction as the painting is displayed, and you note that the predominant colours among the ronin are red and black. The surface message seems obvious... but you cannot help but notice that one of the ronin has a spear braced against a rock and aimed at the Lioness' heart.
The gift of the Unicorn is not a material item. Instead, their ambassador Ide Taka offers the services of his retainer, Utaku Sui, to train the Daimyo's sons in the heavy cavalry warfare favoured by his Clan. It is a bold move, especially when a caveat is attached that the boys will only be allowed to retain their Unicorn-bred steeds if they prove worthy of them, and you can hear numerous fans clicking open around the hall as courtiers and Bushi alike conceal their shock. Matsu Ketsui merely smiles and thanks the Unicorn for their gift, however, and you make a mental note - it seems that framing the offer as a challenge of martial skill for her family to overcome was sufficient to win approval.
It is at this point that Ikoma Genji summons the Scorpion to the dais. Kimoko rises, and you go with her, holding your Clan's gift in a careful grasp. The box is beautifully made, and the decoration in the lid is truly superb, though you do notice the Crab twitch slightly when they catch sight of the small amounts of Jade worked into the design. Kimoko bows low to the daimyo, and you mimic her as best you can with your arms full.
"Honoured Host, we would like to present you with this selection of herbs and spices from the gardens of the Shosuro family." Kimoko says smoothly. "Let it be a symbol of all that the Lion fought to protect, for without the sacrifices of the Matsu family there would be no place to grow such things in the desolate wasteland our beloved homeland would become."
For all her reputed temper and fiery spirit, Matsu Ketsui is too disciplined and traditionalist to allow her feelings to register in her expression or voice. She looks over the box, her gaze lingering on the depiction of Toturi that dominates the decorations on the lid. "A most generous gift, but one I cannot in good conscience accept. The Lion do not defend Rokugan because we desire reward, but because it is our sworn duty."
"None can question the motivations of the Lion Clan in this matter - the strength of your dedication to duty is well known to all." Kimoko replies, moving through the traditional forms of offer and refusal. "Please, accept this gift as freely given."
"Your words are undeniable, yet surely such plants would be of more use in restoring your own lands." The Daimyo says, the slightest hint of a barb behind her words. "I had heard that the gardens of the Shosuro sustained significant damage recently."
Kimoko smiles like a shark. "Not at all, Matsu-sama. The Shosuro herbalists are quite skilled, and I have been assured that their gardens are in full health once again. These samples come from our year's surplus."
The Matsu pauses at that, trying to read the truth behind your words, but Kimoko has an expression as smooth as the mask she wears and you don't know enough to determine the truth of your leader's statement. After a moment's hesitation, the daimyo inclines her head. "In which case we thank you for your gift, and will be sure to display it prominently, where the message it bears can be freely observed."
As the daimyo and your superior bow to each other, you concern yourself with handing over the gift to the low-ranking samurai who moves forwards to take it. That done, you return to your positions, taking a moment to observe the reactions of your fellow delegates. Otomo Kairyu clearly understood the messages there, and judging by the gleam in his eye he fully approves. Likewise, the Doji and Kakita representatives are hiding pleased smiles behind their fans, and while the Yasuki is too disciplined to reveal much the whole Crab delegation practically radiates amusement. Everyone else appears largely bland, though you do note that the Phoenix courtier appears somewhat concerned.
From there, the exchange of gifts moves on to the Mantis, represented by Yoritomo Harike, who presents a golden spyglass much like the ones used by their sailors to view distant sights. You suspect there might be an insult of some sort there, but the courtier is smooth enough to avoid any trouble and the eyeglass is beautifully decorated and thus can pass as a work of art rather than anything practical. Still, you cannot help but notice the way that the Wasp Clan Yojimbo looks quietly pleased by this, and the sight reminder you of the vicious grudge the minor clan bears against the Lion... and the Scorpion.
Finally, the Crane are called up... and bring with them nothing at all. There is considerable tension in the hall as Doji Mariko presses her forehead to the ground before the Matsu and offers her sincere apologies for the lack of a gift. Apparently the Crane lands are currently in too poor a state to offer anything worthy of being presented to the honourable Matsu family, and they did not wish to offer insult by bringing something substandard. Mariko even mentions a few places that the Crane lands that she would normally search for such a gift, each of which is unfortunately still badly damaged from the war... and, if you remember correctly, in such a state because of particularly vicious Lion attacks.
You half suspect that you could cut the air with your blade if you were to draw it now, such is the tension. Doji Mariko's excuse seems perfectly honest and sincere, and it is well known that the Crane lands were indeed rather badly damaged, but it would not exactly be difficult to interpret the Crane's actions as a rather severe insult. Eventually, though, Matsu Ketsui accepts the excuse with a sharp nod, and the Crane return to their seats.
"Honoured guests, we thank you for your patience." Ikoma Genji says in a loud voice, stepping forwards to smooth over the sudden tension. "For the next two hours, I shall be available to consult with any of you about the upcoming schedule, after which I will announce the itinerary. In the mean time, please, feel free to mingle and converse with one another."
Who do you wish to do?
[ ] Speak with one of the other delegates - which?
[ ] Speak with Ikoma Genji
[ ] Speak with one of the Lion guests.
[ ] Position yourself in the hall and allow those interested in conversation to approach you.
[ ] Write in
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Huh, I sorta want to further our connections with Otomo, but I also know that we do need to eventually branch out. I don't want to talk to a Lion guest, for sure.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
I also don't want to talk to the Crane right now and tip off the Lion that we've already made contact. We can talk to Chen during our game of Go and discuss stuff with him then.
I'm more interested in talking about possible Jade exports with the Crab, or commercial opportunities with the Mantis at the moment. The Mantis and Dragon both appear to have some mild distaste for the Lion, so making contact with either might be fruitful.
Incidentally, what did the Phoenix give?
Last edited:
- Location
- London, England
Balls, I knew I was forgetting something.
The Phoenix delegate (Asako Tani) presented the Matsu with a full written account by one of their commanders, detailing the valiant conduct of a unit of Lion Bushi who fought at his side against the Shadowlands in the run up to the Second Day of Thunder. The Lion were all killed, but the Phoenix wished to demonstrate that they remembered the courage and honour displayed by their fellow Samurai even in the face of death and possible damnation.