al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
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Exactly how did he miss meaning of Mantis accusing Lion/Matsu of short-sighness? It was nearly as open as Crane one!
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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)
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Exactly how did he miss meaning of Mantis accusing Lion/Matsu of short-sighness? It was nearly as open as Crane one!
[X] Speak with Ikoma Genji
We'll need to make inroads with the Lion at some point. We could hardly completely ignore them at their own winter court. This guy seems to be in a position of great trust, and he's not an actual Matsu.
Edit: The Crab gift probably has a hidden message of something like "You strut around calling yourselves the defenders of Rokugan, yet you live well behind the Kaiju Wall."
We'll need to make inroads with the Lion at some point. We could hardly completely ignore them at their own winter court. This guy seems to be in a position of great trust, and he's not an actual Matsu.
Edit: The Crab gift probably has a hidden message of something like "You strut around calling yourselves the defenders of Rokugan, yet you live well behind the Kaiju Wall."
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- Location
- London, England
Politics in Rokugan.
This is actually one of the key points of Rokugani social etiquette - the truth, and the appearance of truth, are each held to be roughly as valuable as the other. You know that popular ideal of a straight-talking politician, a man who talks directly and is always honest no matter what might be 'politically convenient'? In Rokugan, those are all unambiguously bad things.
You can insult someone, and do so in such a way that everyone around you including them is aware that you are insulting them, but provided you have a reasonable excuse and the ability to lie with a straight face then no one will call you on it. Indeed, they might even support you, and if the guy you're insulting protests they are actually disgraced for not being able to keep their cool and avoid a loss of face.
So yes, the Crane are insulting the Lion here. Everyone knows that's what they're doing. The smarter people even know that's what the Scorpion are doing. The Crane are at the very least leading with the most blatant expression of contempt that they can manage. And by Rokugani social rules (which were in many ways created by the Crane), if the Lion call them on this it will be the Lion who are in the wrong.
Please note - this does not prevent the Lion from taking revenge in other ways. There are going to be repercussions for this, and by making your insult comparitively subtle the Scorpion are probably safer than several others. It's just that the Crane were willing to take that risk.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Do the Lions have people trained for this? I mean, like, a 'staff person smart at courtier stuff' to look at it later and go, "Ohhh, wait...that was an insult." Because I'm imagining them proudly displaying it, and everyone who goes by having to hold in a snigger.
Wouldn't Naoto still have been smart enough to see what the insult was, though?
al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
Ugh, it wasn't question about that. It's how our intelligent Scorpion missed meaning of insult this blatant. Crab one I can get, but this one?
Wow. Okay, that was very interesting, and very well-written, @Maugan Ra. Can't really think of any other setting where something as "simple" as giving gifts would be so tense.
I'm gonna give it a try and analyze the situation a little, though I'll probably miss some stuff due to lack of familiarity.
EDIT: Though, because of how long it's taking me, I'm guessing that analysis is now rather obsolete/superfluous.
If I'm reading things right, then Crab, Unicorn and Phoenix are all genuinely trying to make good with the Lion; the Unicorn in particular seems to be trying to ingratiate themselves with the Lion; if I remember correctly, them giving away some of their horses, and the necessary training to fight on them, is a really big deal.
Then again, the Crab seemed rather amused by our gift and some of the sub-texts within, so they probably aren't all that happy with the Lion, either, but perhaps didn't feel like including some sort of hidden barb in their gift like us or some of the other delegates? (EDIT: Or I just might've missed it, as Jaertin pointed out.)
All of the other clans, on the other hand, seemed to have included at least some sort of hidden barb or insult against the Lion in some way. Masaru had the spear aimed at the lioness, the Mantis had the practicality (and the short-sightedness insult al mentioned in his post), and the Crane all but walked up to them and said "I'm gonna give you fuck-all because you went and wrecked our home."
Gotta say I like the solid steel balls/ovaries they have on them.
Lastly, we don't know what Kairyu's gift was (yet?), but he definitely seemed to approve of the sub-contexts of ours, so he's probably not all that happy with the Lion, either.
It's probably also either our or Hanzo's duty to get the schedule from Genji, and pass it on to our superior; might be good to decide in that regard.
We'll also need to keep in mind that the Lion is probably going to watch us like a hawk. So, we might want to avoid something like, say, approaching the Crab, because while they seemed to approve of our Gift and its hidden meanings, their own was more straight forward, and approaching them publicly might lead to the Lion casting suspicion on them, which the Crab might not be happy about.
I'm thinking perhaps either the Phoenix or the Unicorn?
Then again, the Lion pretty much went and handed out a bunch of blanket insults to everyone, so... yeah. Definitely going to be fun.
I'm gonna give it a try and analyze the situation a little, though I'll probably miss some stuff due to lack of familiarity.
EDIT: Though, because of how long it's taking me, I'm guessing that analysis is now rather obsolete/superfluous.
If I'm reading things right, then Crab, Unicorn and Phoenix are all genuinely trying to make good with the Lion; the Unicorn in particular seems to be trying to ingratiate themselves with the Lion; if I remember correctly, them giving away some of their horses, and the necessary training to fight on them, is a really big deal.
Then again, the Crab seemed rather amused by our gift and some of the sub-texts within, so they probably aren't all that happy with the Lion, either, but perhaps didn't feel like including some sort of hidden barb in their gift like us or some of the other delegates? (EDIT: Or I just might've missed it, as Jaertin pointed out.)
All of the other clans, on the other hand, seemed to have included at least some sort of hidden barb or insult against the Lion in some way. Masaru had the spear aimed at the lioness, the Mantis had the practicality (and the short-sightedness insult al mentioned in his post), and the Crane all but walked up to them and said "I'm gonna give you fuck-all because you went and wrecked our home."
Gotta say I like the solid steel balls/ovaries they have on them.
Lastly, we don't know what Kairyu's gift was (yet?), but he definitely seemed to approve of the sub-contexts of ours, so he's probably not all that happy with the Lion, either.
In regards to the choices, maybe we should consider what the other members of our party will do? Like, whether Kimoko will position herself to be approached, or seek out others on her own accord.
It's probably also either our or Hanzo's duty to get the schedule from Genji, and pass it on to our superior; might be good to decide in that regard.
We'll also need to keep in mind that the Lion is probably going to watch us like a hawk. So, we might want to avoid something like, say, approaching the Crab, because while they seemed to approve of our Gift and its hidden meanings, their own was more straight forward, and approaching them publicly might lead to the Lion casting suspicion on them, which the Crab might not be happy about.
I'm thinking perhaps either the Phoenix or the Unicorn?
Have to admit I didn't catch that at first, but now that you mention it, yeah. That's really good, in more ways than one. I now want to tip our hat to the Mantis dudes.
Also an interesting point; hadn't thought of that, either.
I think neither the Phoenix nor Unicorn did. The Phoenix seemed genuine, what with both their own gift and their reaction to ours, while the Unicorn's might've been insulting on the surface (being fairly practical in nature), it's a very big deal for them to give away some of their horses, from what I remember, so probably fairly genuine as well.
Then again, the Lion pretty much went and handed out a bunch of blanket insults to everyone, so... yeah. Definitely going to be fun.
The crab insulted the Lions.
Their present was of a sculpture made from a piece of the kaiu wall.
A rock outside of the wall is nothing, it has no function it is weak, as it is the other rocks of the wall, all sharing their strength, that make the wall great.
Here the crab are saying that the lion appear strong, but it has no allies.
It also seve to show that for all that the Lions say they protect the empire, they sit outside of the wall.
A wall made by a crab and worked by crabs.
They are showing to all that they see the lion as weak and remembering then that it is the crab that protect them from the Shadowlands.
Their present was of a sculpture made from a piece of the kaiu wall.
A rock outside of the wall is nothing, it has no function it is weak, as it is the other rocks of the wall, all sharing their strength, that make the wall great.
Here the crab are saying that the lion appear strong, but it has no allies.
It also seve to show that for all that the Lions say they protect the empire, they sit outside of the wall.
A wall made by a crab and worked by crabs.
They are showing to all that they see the lion as weak and remembering then that it is the crab that protect them from the Shadowlands.
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I'm reasonably sure the practical nature of the Unicorn gift and the implication that the Daimyo's sons would benefit from outsider training but may in fact not be up to it still leaves quite a bit of room for insult.
As for the Phoenix, I'd argue there are also less flattering interpretations one can take of "We remember the courage and honour displayed by our fellow Samurai during the recent events" when one considers what the Lions were actually up to.
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Possibly, yeah, though like I said; considering how valueable Unicorn steeds and training are, from what little I remember, I'm somewhat sceptical that this was purely an insult
Maybe, but it does seem somewhat thin, and the way the Phoenix courtier seemed concerned about the message our gift sent makes me think they're much more genuine about their desire for reconciliation than the rest of the courtiers here.
I saw it as "the honorable samurai of the lion are the dead" or "your samurai couldn't do what our could".
What will be our strategy for his meeting?
Will we go look for someone or will we be open for those interested ome to us...
I am interested in the second option, as it will show hose that are interested in us...
If we go for anyone now, we will be showing all the others that we think that that person is of interest. Better to wait., I think.
Will we go look for someone or will we be open for those interested ome to us...
I am interested in the second option, as it will show hose that are interested in us...
If we go for anyone now, we will be showing all the others that we think that that person is of interest. Better to wait., I think.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
I think you're starting to see insults where there aren't any, especially considering the Phoenix courtier's reaction to our gift.
- Location
- London, England
...you know what, I'm going to restrain my impulse to explain whether things were or were not intended as insults. It's much more interesting to see how my players interpret them. That way I can adapt things on the fly as necessary, rather than restricting myself to one interpretation.
I therefore retract the earlier comment about sarcasm. The Mantis gift could be seen as an insult (so can most things if you look at them in a certain way), but you don't know whether that was intended, and you'll need to do some investigation to determine what their actual motivations were.
I therefore retract the earlier comment about sarcasm. The Mantis gift could be seen as an insult (so can most things if you look at them in a certain way), but you don't know whether that was intended, and you'll need to do some investigation to determine what their actual motivations were.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
are we talking crunch
I think we're talking crunch
Let's start with attributes - and more specifically let's start with what we ought not pursue.
In L5R, all characters are, to a certain extend, MAD (multi-attribute dependent). Our role is socializing loremaster... but our station is Bushi. We are not here to fight but it is our official job, so it stands to reason that we will have to at some point. The key things for Bushi, generally speaking: Agility to hit things, and either Earth to take hits, and/or Reflexes to not be hit. Strength is also nice but it's not core, not really, and as we aren't a Matsu or what have you there's no reason to invest - our speciality is not in lots of damage dice.
But we are also someone who socializes. Courtier are also MAD in the sense that, yes, their primary attribute is Awareness; (which we will want at 4 some time) but being stupid in court is like running a race with a lame foot. It won't cut it. Intelligence is something we have in spades and so for now we can disregard talk of raising it, if only because such a thing would be far in the future. Willpower is nice to resist manipulation attempts, and is a half-step away from raising our total health pool. Meanwhile Perception, to round things out, is never a bad choice because it ups our Investigation, one of the most commonly rolled Skills in the game.
In an RPG, and especially in L5R, you have to specialize to an extent to succeed; and this means writing things off. In L5R, also like other RPGs, it is quite common to have a "dump" Ring, a set of attributes that you more or less entirely disregard. We certainly don't need everything at 3, though it may be nice.
So let's talk what we need, and about what we don't.
Strength
Hitting things marginally harder will impress only the Matsu. And marginally at that.
Stamina
Not having Earth 3 as a Bushi means that if someone sneezes on us wrong, we die. (But that's why people pump Reflexes as a stopgap measure
) Without Willpower 3 there is no immediate benefit to raising this.
Willpower
Similar to above, the only benefit we get out of this is resisting Fear better. And resisting manipulation - not really worth it yet.
Void
More raises and spiritual power is nice... but again, it's not what we're looking for.
These four I feel entirely safe in discarding for now. Next we have the For Sure What To Raise List, which I have as rather short.
Reflexes
It gives us Insight, makes us less likely to be hit and go *squish*, makes us a better duelist and archer - and it's our key defensive stat as we aren't pumping anything into Earth. I think this is our next big thing.
Awareness
More bang for your social-fu buck. Better at socializing - can't go wrong. But as for immediate gains in courtly ways, it's not optimal - spending the xp we next receive on raising Skills--which are low--would be better. Raise eventually, for sure.
Agility
This is a very, very nice thing to have higher. Agility 4 is a wonderful place where you can dip a single point into, say, Perform: Dance and suddenly you're the star of the show. It also compliments Crab Hands very nicely and mirrors our prodigious brain. Very good for impressing more martial Clans, and also just flat out makes us better at hitting thing. Another eventual raise - I can see this after Reflexes, and it would be nice to specialize into kenjutsu more over iaijutsu, if we ever have to duel - not all duels are fought like the Kakita would have you believe.
Intelligence
This is where I'm starting to get a little iffy. On one hand, our shtick is that We Know Things. To that end, Intelligence 5 is very useful: getting that gives us 6kbloody5 Lore rolls. At this point the only people in the Empire that know as much as us are high-end Shugenja and Asako Loremasters, whose sole job is to know things. I feel like this is not an unreasonable goal to achieve at some point, down the line, but it's more than a ways off.
Perception
Perception 3 is something everyone needs at some point down the road. No idea where it would slot in for us, but it's certainly important.
Moving on to the next topic... I can't find fault with @Sirrocco's thoughts on what Skills to raise next - our niche is to KnowThings, and we do it as well as we possibly can without sinking 20 points into Intelligence 5. Next on the agenda we have more socializing to do. So Etiquette and Sincerity--if I had to pick I'd say the latter more than anything but I doubt we'll have to--and then little things to round us out.
I personally reject the idea that we need a decent iaijutsu over most other things. We're at Shiro Matsu. Most all the people we might end up dueling would settle on kenjutsu to resolve the issue, and if the ball is in our court we get to use that anyway. It also allows us to take more points into kenjutsu (of which, yes, we need 3 at least) and save the experience.
Commerce and some Low Skills would be wonderful, as noted already (like most of this shit); I especially love Commerce. One point to set us quite well going forward. Calligraphy doesn't seem too core, really, but if we can swing it we can swing it and certainly grabbing another odd Low Skill will come in useful.
tl;dr everyone in this quest knows their shit already, more or less; raise your social, raise your murderdeathkill; pick up little things along the way to Knowing Everything Ever; Fire is Best Ring (and mobile typing is the worst thing ever T_T)
I think we're talking crunch
You both raise some valid points, and aside from the obvious mandatory raises--Reflexes and Social Skills--what I think this all boils down to is what we are trying to build for. So let's step back a second, mm?
Let's start with attributes - and more specifically let's start with what we ought not pursue.
In L5R, all characters are, to a certain extend, MAD (multi-attribute dependent). Our role is socializing loremaster... but our station is Bushi. We are not here to fight but it is our official job, so it stands to reason that we will have to at some point. The key things for Bushi, generally speaking: Agility to hit things, and either Earth to take hits, and/or Reflexes to not be hit. Strength is also nice but it's not core, not really, and as we aren't a Matsu or what have you there's no reason to invest - our speciality is not in lots of damage dice.
But we are also someone who socializes. Courtier are also MAD in the sense that, yes, their primary attribute is Awareness; (which we will want at 4 some time) but being stupid in court is like running a race with a lame foot. It won't cut it. Intelligence is something we have in spades and so for now we can disregard talk of raising it, if only because such a thing would be far in the future. Willpower is nice to resist manipulation attempts, and is a half-step away from raising our total health pool. Meanwhile Perception, to round things out, is never a bad choice because it ups our Investigation, one of the most commonly rolled Skills in the game.
In an RPG, and especially in L5R, you have to specialize to an extent to succeed; and this means writing things off. In L5R, also like other RPGs, it is quite common to have a "dump" Ring, a set of attributes that you more or less entirely disregard. We certainly don't need everything at 3, though it may be nice.
So let's talk what we need, and about what we don't.
Strength
Hitting things marginally harder will impress only the Matsu. And marginally at that.
Stamina
Not having Earth 3 as a Bushi means that if someone sneezes on us wrong, we die. (But that's why people pump Reflexes as a stopgap measure
) Without Willpower 3 there is no immediate benefit to raising this.Willpower
Similar to above, the only benefit we get out of this is resisting Fear better. And resisting manipulation - not really worth it yet.
Void
More raises and spiritual power is nice... but again, it's not what we're looking for.
These four I feel entirely safe in discarding for now. Next we have the For Sure What To Raise List, which I have as rather short.
Reflexes
It gives us Insight, makes us less likely to be hit and go *squish*, makes us a better duelist and archer - and it's our key defensive stat as we aren't pumping anything into Earth. I think this is our next big thing.
Awareness
More bang for your social-fu buck. Better at socializing - can't go wrong. But as for immediate gains in courtly ways, it's not optimal - spending the xp we next receive on raising Skills--which are low--would be better. Raise eventually, for sure.
Agility
This is a very, very nice thing to have higher. Agility 4 is a wonderful place where you can dip a single point into, say, Perform: Dance and suddenly you're the star of the show. It also compliments Crab Hands very nicely and mirrors our prodigious brain. Very good for impressing more martial Clans, and also just flat out makes us better at hitting thing. Another eventual raise - I can see this after Reflexes, and it would be nice to specialize into kenjutsu more over iaijutsu, if we ever have to duel - not all duels are fought like the Kakita would have you believe.
Intelligence
This is where I'm starting to get a little iffy. On one hand, our shtick is that We Know Things. To that end, Intelligence 5 is very useful: getting that gives us 6kbloody5 Lore rolls. At this point the only people in the Empire that know as much as us are high-end Shugenja and Asako Loremasters, whose sole job is to know things. I feel like this is not an unreasonable goal to achieve at some point, down the line, but it's more than a ways off.
Perception
Perception 3 is something everyone needs at some point down the road. No idea where it would slot in for us, but it's certainly important.
Moving on to the next topic... I can't find fault with @Sirrocco's thoughts on what Skills to raise next - our niche is to KnowThings, and we do it as well as we possibly can without sinking 20 points into Intelligence 5. Next on the agenda we have more socializing to do. So Etiquette and Sincerity--if I had to pick I'd say the latter more than anything but I doubt we'll have to--and then little things to round us out.
I personally reject the idea that we need a decent iaijutsu over most other things. We're at Shiro Matsu. Most all the people we might end up dueling would settle on kenjutsu to resolve the issue, and if the ball is in our court we get to use that anyway. It also allows us to take more points into kenjutsu (of which, yes, we need 3 at least) and save the experience.
Commerce and some Low Skills would be wonderful, as noted already (like most of this shit
); I especially love Commerce. One point to set us quite well going forward. Calligraphy doesn't seem too core, really, but if we can swing it we can swing it and certainly grabbing another odd Low Skill will come in useful.tl;dr everyone in this quest knows their shit already, more or less; raise your social, raise your murderdeathkill; pick up little things along the way to Knowing Everything Ever; Fire is Best Ring (and mobile typing is the worst thing ever T_T)
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I don't think it's purely an insult either, but that doesn't mean the insult isn't a key part of the message as well, especially when only the Crane were more blatant than they.
Making clear that they aren't all that happy with the Lion/Matsu and aren't all that impressed with them either is probably pretty important for their goals here, because as the update itself said this was a pretty bold move that only worked because the insult was framed as the kind of challenge that won the Daimyo's approval.
I agree that they are probably very genuine in their desire for reconciliation, but that also doesn't contradict offering hidden insults of their own.
Reminding the others present that their desire for peace doesn't mean they have forgotten what happened would be just as important to them as not affronting the Matsu, because they don't want to affront anyone else either.
A subtle insult that may not be noticed by the Matsu and certainly doesn't piss off nearly as much as the other gifts works well for that. And, if the insult is subtle enough, it also works to show off their skill at insulting which is always nice.
None of this however would prevent them from being concerned at the notion that the Scorpion may in fact be threatening to poison the Matsu Daimyo, because that is the very opposite of what they want.
I figure the reason they were worried over our insult isn't that we insulted the Matsu so badly, but that we implied an actual threat, which I don't think anyone else did.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
I'm pretty sure that the Phoenix were being honest. They honestly want peace, with everyone. This is likely to be a really *very* uncomfortable Winter Court for the Phoenix representative. There *are* insulting ways to take it, but they're actually a bit of a stretch... and they were pained by our gift. Samurai dying gloriously and honorably in battle is kind of a common theme in Rokugani art that's generally supportive of the clan of the samurai in question.
The Unicorn... were being a bit insulting, by offering a practical thing, but unlike all the other insults int eh room, this was acceptable losses, rather than being the point of the exercise. The Unicorn are still very much touched by the cultures of the Gaijin. The point of the exercise was to be the one who taught horsemanship to the Diamyo's heirs. It's angling for political position in the generation to come, and doing what they could to make it a gift that would be accepted. From the Unicorn perspective, that's a complement (saying that the Lion are worth the effort to curry favor with in that way) and an honor (because when a Unicorn gifts you a horse, or even the opportunity to earn a horse, it is *always* an honor). The Matsu accepted it as it was meant, and appreciated it as such.
I do want to meet more people... but I don't really want to approach anyone here - at least not too openly. I'd especially like to get in touch with the Phoenix, but now would seem to be a poor time for it, given how she reacted to our gift. Hmm...
[X] Position yourself in the hall and allow those interested in conversation to approach you.
-[X] Pick one of the more out-of-the-way places.
-[X] If no one in particular is approaching you, see if you can spot someone doing approximately the same thing, and approach them.
--[X] preferably, pick a junior member of one of the delegations you've not spoken with yet. Perhaps the Phoenix?
The Unicorn... were being a bit insulting, by offering a practical thing, but unlike all the other insults int eh room, this was acceptable losses, rather than being the point of the exercise. The Unicorn are still very much touched by the cultures of the Gaijin. The point of the exercise was to be the one who taught horsemanship to the Diamyo's heirs. It's angling for political position in the generation to come, and doing what they could to make it a gift that would be accepted. From the Unicorn perspective, that's a complement (saying that the Lion are worth the effort to curry favor with in that way) and an honor (because when a Unicorn gifts you a horse, or even the opportunity to earn a horse, it is *always* an honor). The Matsu accepted it as it was meant, and appreciated it as such.
I do want to meet more people... but I don't really want to approach anyone here - at least not too openly. I'd especially like to get in touch with the Phoenix, but now would seem to be a poor time for it, given how she reacted to our gift. Hmm...
[X] Position yourself in the hall and allow those interested in conversation to approach you.
-[X] Pick one of the more out-of-the-way places.
-[X] If no one in particular is approaching you, see if you can spot someone doing approximately the same thing, and approach them.
--[X] preferably, pick a junior member of one of the delegations you've not spoken with yet. Perhaps the Phoenix?
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mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Sirrocco
Who will come, will come. I think that at this point we might as well sit back a little - there'll be opportunity to be all forward and whatnot later.
Who will come, will come. I think that at this point we might as well sit back a little - there'll be opportunity to be all forward and whatnot later.
Well, there's two options for us, I think. The first would be to play into our role/appearance as a subordinate of little importance, and go meet Genji in order to get the schedule for our superior.
The other would be to use the fact that we're likely one of the most closely-watched people in the room (everyone watches everyone, obviously, but my understanding is that everyone always tries to keep a bit of an extra eye on the Scorpions), and direct some scrutiny in the direction of someone who might not be happy to get it, like the Unicorn, perhaps. Dunno.
If the Mantis/Wasp and the Scorpion don't like each other, is that really a good idea? Wouldn't someone else be better?
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also you have no idea how utterly infuriating it is to type up and format 1k words of (hopefully) reasonable thoughts on a phone. ._.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
[X] Sirrocco
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Pretty sure it's not that we'd be getting the itinerary as that we'd be trying to *influence* it. I don't think that's a game we really want to play right now.
If the Mantis/Wasp (not the same) and the Scorpion don't like each other... well, is this not a good opportunity for building a bridge or two? Still, you may be right - and I'd misremembered slightly how the reactions to our gift went. Editing to the phoenix.
We can probably do better with the Mantis if we are first introduced by the Crane - who did read the message that we sent with our gift.
I also... I realize that no one but us actually knows the herbs in the box. Even the most perceptive read it as "Shosuro gardens. Must be poison." - a much more threatening message than I'd first intended. Still, this works... as a thing that a few people, who *really* know their herbs might discover, and as a thing that we can reveal in those conversations where it is most useful.
I'm really starting to get curious what the Ikoma karo is thinking about all of this. I'm almost sure that "thinly veiled insult every single one of the attending dignitaries, while also informing them that we consider them to be enemies" was not something that *he* chose. He's being very businesslike, but....