In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

[Kelenas]

Pretty sure it's not that we'd be getting the itinerary as that we'd be trying to *influence* it. I don't think that's a game we really want to play right now.

Click to shrink...

After re-reading the final paragraph of the update, I've revised my opinion and agree; "consulting with him about the schedule seems to imply possible changes/alteration or whatnot, based on suggestions or input".
And, yeah; probably not something we'd want at this point.

On the other hand, it might be very useful to know both what the original schedule was, and which of the representatives here suggested or requested any changes. It might not be as useful as getting information from one clan in particular, but could serve to provide a bit of an interesting overview.

That said, doing so would likely require a fair bit of time spent observing and listening in, meaning we wouldn't be able to do anything else in that time.

Do we have any of our non-samurai retainers with us? I'm guessing not, but this would be an occasion where being able to have our servants just discreetly spend some time near the Ikoma and listen in might be very handy.

 

[A Nation's Virtue]

Pretty sure it's not that we'd be getting the itinerary as that we'd be trying to *influence* it. I don't think that's a game we really want to play right now.

If the Mantis/Wasp (not the same) and the Scorpion don't like each other... well, is this not a good opportunity for building a bridge or two? Still, you may be right - and I'd misremembered slightly how the reactions to our gift went. Editing to the phoenix.

We can probably do better with the Mantis if we are first introduced by the Crane - who did read the message that we sent with our gift.

I also... I realize that no one but us actually knows the herbs in the box. Even the most perceptive read it as "Shosuro gardens. Must be poison." - a much more threatening message than I'd first intended. Still, this works... as a thing that a few people, who *really* know their herbs might discover, and as a thing that we can reveal in those conversations where it is most useful.

I'm really starting to get curious what the Ikoma karo is thinking about all of this. I'm almost sure that "thinly veiled insult every single one of the attending dignitaries, while also informing them that we consider them to be enemies" was not something that *he* chose. He's being very businesslike, but....

Click to shrink...

Mind changing to somebody besides the Phoenix? I don't really care who we talk to, so long as we have common ground against the Lion. So Crab, Dragon, Mantis...Crane we can save for later.

 

[Kelenas]

Actually, I think the Phoenix might not be a bad choice, here. They're fairly comfortably neutral, I believe? At least in the sense in that approaching them publicly wouldn't be an issue either for us, or for other groups/factions we'd likely be interested in to make common ground with (like the Crane).

Plus, it might allow us to smooth over the concerned first reaction our gift provoked, before the likely negative impression from that had time to settle in too much.

 

[Sirrocco]

Mind changing to somebody besides the Phoenix? I don't really care who we talk to, so long as we have common ground against the Lion. So Crab, Dragon, Mantis...Crane we can save for later.

Click to shrink...

Okay... this is the point where I need to bring up a Major Salient Fact - our primary objective here.

Our *primary* objective at this Winter court - the entire reason we're here - is to try to keep relations with the Matsu from decaying so far that they close Beiden Pass. That's *hugely* important for the health and well-being of the Scorpion Clan as a whole. Having the Matsu decide to come storming across the pass at us would be even worse.

Antagonizing the Matsu is not a goal - it is a cost that we may choose to pay under certain circumstances to achieve other goals. As such, any steps that we can take to soothe relations between our house and theirs that do not come at significant cost elsewhere are to our benefit. Getting in touch with and working with the one family who seems to wish that *everyone* get along seems to be even more to our benefit.

The fact that our gift was healing herbs rather than poison (and thus that it is a subtle backhanded offer rather than a thinly veiled threat) is a secret asset. It would do well to save it for when it can be best deployed... but if the Matsu themselves do not learn of it at some point during the Winter Court, then that means we've massively misplayed our hand.

Incidentally, we *also* want to encourage Crab trade through Beiden Pass, particularly with the Matsu. The more benefit they get out of the pass, the less inclined they'll be to close it, and if relations with the Crab break down too far, then may close it to spite them, rather than us.

Oh - and one of our secondary goals is to find out about the local Matsu magistrates and, preferably, keep them on good terms in support of Pale Oak-san.

This is not the time to be trying to turn people further against the Matsu.

 

[A Nation's Virtue]

Okay... this is the point where I need to bring up a Major Salient Fact - our primary objective here.

Our *primary* objective at this Winter court - the entire reason we're here - is to try to keep relations with the Matsu from decaying so far that they close Beiden Pass. That's *hugely* important for the health and well-being of the Scorpion Clan as a whole. Having the Matsu decide to come storming across the pass at us would be even worse.

Antagonizing the Matsu is not a goal - it is a cost that we may choose to pay under certain circumstances to achieve other goals. As such, any steps that we can take to soothe relations between our house and theirs that do not come at significant cost elsewhere are to our benefit. Getting in touch with and working with the one family who seems to wish that *everyone* get along seems to be even more to our benefit.

The fact that our gift was healing herbs rather than poison (and thus that it is a subtle backhanded offer rather than a thinly veiled threat) is a secret asset. It would do well to save it for when it can be best deployed... but if the Matsu themselves do not learn of it at some point during the Winter Court, then that means we've massively misplayed our hand.

Incidentally, we *also* want to encourage Crab trade through Beiden Pass, particularly with the Matsu. The more benefit they get out of the pass, the less inclined they'll be to close it, and if relations with the Crab break down too far, then may close it to spite them, rather than us.

Oh - and one of our secondary goals is to find out about the local Matsu magistrates and, preferably, keep them on good terms in support of Pale Oak-san.

This is not the time to be trying to turn people further against the Matsu.

Click to shrink...

I was thinking less turning against and using that as common ground for establishing trade and other deals with the other representatives. I know we're trying to keep the pass open.

 

[Sirrocco]

I was thinking less turning against and using that as common ground for establishing trade and other deals with the other representatives. I know we're trying to keep the pass open.

Click to shrink...

This is the morning of the first day. We don't want to be overeager, and building common ground based on distaste for the Matsu is better done in more private surroundings - or done by Bayushi Kimiko. She's the crazy one who enjoys being terrifying and offensive. It is our job to be the quiet fence-mender.

Given that... I expect that she's either going to head off to talk with the Crab, or possibly pick a bit of a fight with someone. Really, this is *her* time. Our time is when court is not in session - we're far more constrained here, with everyone watching.

One of the things that talking with the phoenix suggests is that we are interested in peace and rebuilding - suggesting that we may be available as the more reasonable side access to the Scorpion, for those who do not wish to brave the front door.

 

[Maugan Ra]

Do we have any of our non-samurai retainers with us? I'm guessing not, but this would be an occasion where being able to have our servants just discreetly spend some time near the Ikoma and listen in might be very handy.

Click to shrink...

Pale Oak and the Heimin are potentially very useful tools, but they are also somewhat limited. Specifically in that they have no business lurking around Lion samurai and that trying to do so will get them in severe (possibly fatal) trouble. If you want spies inside the Lion keep, work on convincing the Lion heimin to support you.

Also, for your consideration when it comes to buying skills, here's what I generally consider to be useful for a courtier. You'll want some Bushi skills as well, but the following can and likely will come up in the context of the Winter Court. You don't need to be good at them all, but the more things you can do the more options you have and the better regard your superiors will hold you in.

Acting - This skill not only dictates how well you can act in a theatrical sense, it's also how much you actually know about the acting scene - famous playwrights, actors and plays are all identified with this skill. There are actors in every Clan, and being able to discuss the work of a samurai's kin with them is an excellent way to establish positive ties.

It's also your disguise skill. Remember, Rokugan does not have forensics, and their criminal system is based on testimony. If a man in Crane colours is seen leaving the house of a murdered samurai, then the criminal is obviously a Crane.

Artisan: Poetry - Samurai like to think of themselves as cultured, and there is no easier way to convince people you're cultured than to be a poet. Seriously, poetry is hella important in Court.

Battle - It's a Lion court. Someone is going to discuss military tactics at some point. Being able to hold your own in such a conversation is the easiest and most reliable way to earn some measure of respect from the Matsu.

Calligraphy - Part of this is again demonstrating your sophisticated nature, but it's also the skill used to encode and decode hidden messages (though you need to take the 'Cipher' emphasis for that).

Commerce - Most samurai prefer not to dirty their hands with money, but knowing how much something is worth, how to balance a budget and how to negotiate a trade agreement are all very useful skills.

Courtier - This is effectively your social attack skill. When you want to make someone do something, this is the skill you roll. You're actually pretty good here, since you have a pool of 6k3 and reroll 1's when trying to manipulate someone.

Etiquette - This is your social defense skill. Whenever someone rolls a social skill against you (and people will be doing so), this is what helps you avoid being influenced by them. It's also how you avoid giving offense, and since offending a Matsu is probably going to get your head chopped off, it's a pretty good investment.

Forgery - Letters are effectively testimony in Rokugan, and knowing how to falsify them is very useful. It's also a great way to get around trade tariffs and embargoes, and generally be a deceptive git.

Horsemanship - Not usually important, but if you don't have any the Unicorn will never take you seriously. Since they're the Lion's main military rivals, this is rather useful.

Iaijutsu - Used for participating in traditional duels as well as knowing more about them and those who perform them. You don't need to be a master, but having a basic understanding would be useful.

Intimidation - This skill is used both for directly browbeating someone and also for keeping people under control through veiled threats and blackmail. You're Scorpion, so those are valid tactics for you.

Investigation - Less important in a court game, where the chance of hidden ninja is somewhat reduced, but Investigation remains important because it's how you tell if the other guy is lying or not.

Meditation - Void points are very useful, people, and Meditation is the easiest and often most convenient way to restore them. It's also useful as a kind of endurance skill, but that's often less important in this sort of game.

Sincerity - This. You need this. Sincerity is how you make sure you sound like you believe what you are saying. Remember, most disputes come down to your word against the other guy's, and the actual factual truth of the matter is very rarely relevant. It's your bluff skill plus a few extra things, and you are Scorpion.

Stealth - You're more likely to use the Shadowing emphasis in court, which involves blending into crowds and going unnoticed more than creeping through shadows, but however you use it stealth is very useful.

Tea Ceremony - Inviting someone to a Tea ceremony is a sign of serious respect, and being able to conduct one properly is an important skill anywhere in the Empire. It also helps by restoring Void points.

Temptation - You want to bribe or seduce someone, you roll this skill. Note that this isn't inherently hostile, and bribery can involve much more than simple money. Everyone wants something, and everyone knows the Scorpion can help you get it.

 

[The Laurent]

Pale Oak and the Heimin are potentially very useful tools, but they are also somewhat limited. Specifically in that they have no business lurking around Lion samurai and that trying to do so will get them in severe (possibly fatal) trouble. If you want spies inside the Lion keep, work on convincing the Lion heimin to support you.

Also, for your consideration when it comes to buying skills, here's what I generally consider to be useful for a courtier. You'll want some Bushi skills as well, but the following can and likely will come up in the context of the Winter Court. You don't need to be good at them all, but the more things you can do the more options you have and the better regard your superiors will hold you in.

Acting - This skill not only dictates how well you can act in a theatrical sense, it's also how much you actually know about the acting scene - famous playwrights, actors and plays are all identified with this skill. There are actors in every Clan, and being able to discuss the work of a samurai's kin with them is an excellent way to establish positive ties.

It's also your disguise skill. Remember, Rokugan does not have forensics, and their criminal system is based on testimony. If a man in Crane colours is seen leaving the house of a murdered samurai, then the criminal is obviously a Crane.

Artisan: Poetry - Samurai like to think of themselves as cultured, and there is no easier way to convince people you're cultured than to be a poet. Seriously, poetry is hella important in Court.

Battle - It's a Lion court. Someone is going to discuss military tactics at some point. Being able to hold your own in such a conversation is the easiest and most reliable way to earn some measure of respect from the Matsu.

Calligraphy - Part of this is again demonstrating your sophisticated nature, but it's also the skill used to encode and decode hidden messages (though you need to take the 'Cipher' emphasis for that).

Commerce - Most samurai prefer not to dirty their hands with money, but knowing how much something is worth, how to balance a budget and how to negotiate a trade agreement are all very useful skills.

Courtier - This is effectively your social attack skill. When you want to make someone do something, this is the skill you roll. You're actually pretty good here, since you have a pool of 6k3 and reroll 1's when trying to manipulate someone.

Etiquette - This is your social defense skill. Whenever someone rolls a social skill against you (and people will be doing so), this is what helps you avoid being influenced by them. It's also how you avoid giving offense, and since offending a Matsu is probably going to get your head chopped off, it's a pretty good investment.

Forgery - Letters are effectively testimony in Rokugan, and knowing how to falsify them is very useful. It's also a great way to get around trade tariffs and embargoes, and generally be a deceptive git.

Horsemanship - Not usually important, but if you don't have any the Unicorn will never take you seriously. Since they're the Lion's main military rivals, this is rather useful.

Iaijutsu - Used for participating in traditional duels as well as knowing more about them and those who perform them. You don't need to be a master, but having a basic understanding would be useful.

Intimidation - This skill is used both for directly browbeating someone and also for keeping people under control through veiled threats and blackmail. You're Scorpion, so those are valid tactics for you.

Investigation - Less important in a court game, where the chance of hidden ninja is somewhat reduced, but Investigation remains important because it's how you tell if the other guy is lying or not.

Meditation - Void points are very useful, people, and Meditation is the easiest and often most convenient way to restore them. It's also useful as a kind of endurance skill, but that's often less important in this sort of game.

Sincerity - This. You need this. Sincerity is how you make sure you sound like you believe what you are saying. Remember, most disputes come down to your word against the other guy's, and the actual factual truth of the matter is very rarely relevant. It's your bluff skill plus a few extra things, and you are Scorpion.

Stealth - You're more likely to use the Shadowing emphasis in court, which involves blending into crowds and going unnoticed more than creeping through shadows, but however you use it stealth is very useful.

Tea Ceremony - Inviting someone to a Tea ceremony is a sign of serious respect, and being able to conduct one properly is an important skill anywhere in the Empire. It also helps by restoring Void points.

Temptation - You want to bribe or seduce someone, you roll this skill. Note that this isn't inherently hostile, and bribery can involve much more than simple money. Everyone wants something, and everyone knows the Scorpion can help you get it.

Click to shrink...

Actually, that's a question. You said 'in a court game', is this a Court Game? By that I mean, is this Quest probably going to focus on the more political side of things, or is it all a matter of where our character gravitates?

 

[kyuden]

Part of me wants to watch who Bayushi Kimiko goes to speak with and then speak to the party/group that is the natural enemy of that group, play the intermediary.

 

[mothematics]

Actually, that's a question. You said 'in a court game', is this a Court Game? By that I mean, is this Quest probably going to focus on the more political side of things, or is it all a matter of where our character gravitates?

Click to shrink...

That said, this quest is going to be treading some rather different ground. For one, the time period is different, and will be diverging increasingly further from canon events as we go on. For another, this is going to be a primarily Court-focused quest, where cunning and etiquette are considerably more important than how well you can swing a sword. This is not to say that a martial character would be completely useless - Samurai are all warriors, after all, and there is always a need for duelists and Yojimbo - but they will definitely be at a relative disadvantage in most cases and may be somewhat out of the limelight.

Click to shrink...

 

[The Laurent]

Confirmation

Click to shrink...

Yay!

 

[Maugan Ra]

Actually, that's a question. You said 'in a court game', is this a Court Game? By that I mean, is this Quest probably going to focus on the more political side of things, or is it all a matter of where our character gravitates?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this is intended to be a court/political Quest. Combat will probably occur at some point, but is not going to be a focus. You might organize a joint military expedition to clear out a bandit group and tag along, for example, but the bulk of the quest will have you speaking to people and acquiring/using information of various kinds.

 

[gman391]

Honestly I disagree about the earlier talk about void 3 not being useful.

Void 3 is the primary dueling stat (No I don't care that Iai is paired with reflex all that matters in a duel is the focus roll)
It also means more void points for clutch rolls, initiative manipulation, damage reduction (Which as a squishy bushi we want)
and damage rolls on our katana, lets us call more raises (Oh hai super fancy artwork) and more IR

In short Void 3 is never ever a bad pick

 

[mothematics]

Certainly Void 3 is never bad strictly speaking; but I never said it wasn't useful. Merely this;

More raises and spiritual power is nice... but again, it's not what we're looking for.

Click to shrink...

I will admit I didn't mention the whole "lol more Void Points" aspect but that's largely irrelevant to my point.While it's certainly not a bad pick in the sense that it's useless de facto, in the context of "we have pressing places to allocate" it does absolutely nothing. Which makes it safe to call "bad"--which I would feel safe in doing, if I felt like it--in this specific context.

And in all honesty, I doubt we'll be getting much use out of iaijutsu as is when everything stands to reason that we would want to do a kenjutsu duel (although rolling Iaijutsu/Intelligence to note how a duelist prepares for their strike is certainly a wonderful idea and likely to net us some respect if we are able to witness).

 

[Sirrocco]

We can likely avoid getting into an Iajutsu duel with the Crane - especially once we have our Etiquette and Sincerity numbers up. On Iajutsu duels with the Matsu... well, if we can avoid challenging them (it shouldn't be hard) then all we have to do is to deal with them challenging us (where we get to pick the challenge type). If they're challenging us, though, they're likely a lot better at kenjutsu then they are at iajutsu. Getting into a kenjutsu duel with a Matsu is probably pretty lethal. Getting to the point where we could survive an iajutsu duel may well be a lot more manageable.

Of course, once we're being challenged, we can go silly buggers to a degree. After all, we do have Crab Hands, and as Scorpion we don't mind dropping a few points of honor for a good cause. We could pick some other weapon to fight with. Given that our justification for Crab Hands is "practices everything he can get his hands on" we might well have packed any of a variety of fascinating and varied weapons in our bags... and we may well have packed them along in pairs, just in case. After all, it's hard to have a kusari-gama duel if you don't have enough kusari-gama for everybody to have one. Saddling our foe with an untrained skill penalty (and denying them their skill dice and their masteries) is bound to help.

Speaking of which, come morning, we should totally be out there in the practice fields, going through training routines with odd and fascinating weaponry. It actually *is* something we excel at, as a bushi. Perhaps we'll get lucky, one of the Crab will also have bought Crab Hands, and we can get in an actual spar.

 

[mothematics]

It's worth pointing out our "one free weapon" hasn't been decided yet

Also I just have this mental image of us deciding the weapon will be a bo, and we justify it with "The Matsu are the fiercest warriors in the Empire. Surely you don't mean to suggest that you cannot contest one such as I, with any weapon at all?" and then we get them to accept it just like that (although they'll hit harder but they're Matsu so that's inescapable)

 

[gman391]

The Matsu gempukku involves them showing proficiency with 20 weapons...

Anyways, AFAIK 4th edition if you're challenged to a duel you both have to accept something besides Iaijutsu for it not to default to that going by the Book of Air Splat

 

[A Nation's Virtue]

The Matsu gempukku involves them showing proficiency with 20 weapons...

Anyways, AFAIK 4th edition if you're challenged to a duel you both have to accept something besides Iaijutsu for it not to default to that going by the Book of Air Splat

Click to shrink...

I imagine that doesn't mean that much considering the number of skills Matsu samurai start out with. Even then there's lot of weapons within categories.

I was reading through one of the PDF's yesterday (can't remember which, Great Clans I think?), and it mentioned that in certain areas different Clans will react more positively to non-Iaijutsu duels. Lion prefer kenjutsu, Unicorn prefer mounted combat, and Crab prefer heavy weapons. And since the Matsu have a rivalry with the Kakita, I imagine it'd be fairly easy to convince them to not use the Kakita preferred method of dueling.

 

[Sirrocco]

Okay. Then we're back to "It's probably easier to kill a Matsu iajutsu-on-iajutsu than it is kenjutsu-on-kenjutsu". They don't even have iajutsu as a school skill. I'm sure it *would* be pretty easy to convince them to use kenjutsu. It would also be a bad idea. We're not going to beat a Matsu in kenjutsu. It's just not going to happen.

Mind you, we're a lot better off if we can avoid being challenged in the first place, but this would be a defensive buy.

On the flip side, if we think that we can keep safe enough just off of our social skills, then we can decide to let it go. In many ways, mid-ranked levels of iajutsu are there to make people let you get away with stuff. As long as we're willing to not try that sort of stuff, we should be okay - and in terms of our actual objectives, we really *don't* want to enrage the Matsu.

Given our probable strategy going forward, I'm actually more concerned about the idea of Bayushi Kimiko possibly dying in a duel. That could get... complicated.

Actually, that leads around to something else. Court is an excellent place to pick up glory and renown. There are all sorts of courtly skills that you can demonstrate to make yourself the shining jewel of the season (at least briefly). The question is... do we want that? I don't think we do. We're Soshi, after all. We care what our leaders think of us. We care what individuals think of us - in particular, how far they've taken us into their confidences, how well they think of us, and how indebted they feel towards us. I don't think we really care a lot about overall status, though - which means that the status-seeking behaviors that typify court life are less useful to us. We'd rather show our skills quietly, if at all. Let others draw the attention. Bayushi-sama, for example, is *great* at drawing (and hopefully surviving) attention.

 

[The Laurent]

Okay. Then we're back to "It's probably easier to kill a Matsu iajutsu-on-iajutsu than it is kenjutsu-on-kenjutsu". They don't even have iajutsu as a school skill. I'm sure it *would* be pretty easy to convince them to use kenjutsu. It would also be a bad idea. We're not going to beat a Matsu in kenjutsu. It's just not going to happen.

Mind you, we're a lot better off if we can avoid being challenged in the first place, but this would be a defensive buy.

On the flip side, if we think that we can keep safe enough just off of our social skills, then we can decide to let it go. In many ways, mid-ranked levels of iajutsu are there to make people let you get away with stuff. As long as we're willing to not try that sort of stuff, we should be okay - and in terms of our actual objectives, we really *don't* want to enrage the Matsu.

Given our probable strategy going forward, I'm actually more concerned about the idea of Bayushi Kimiko possibly dying in a duel. That could get... complicated.

Actually, that leads around to something else. Court is an excellent place to pick up glory and renown. There are all sorts of courtly skills that you can demonstrate to make yourself the shining jewel of the season (at least briefly). The question is... do we want that? I don't think we do. We're Soshi, after all. We care what our leaders think of us. We care what individuals think of us - in particular, how far they've taken us into their confidences, how well they think of us, and how indebted they feel towards us. I don't think we really care a lot about overall status, though - which means that the status-seeking behaviors that typify court life are less useful to us. We'd rather show our skills quietly, if at all. Let others draw the attention. Bayushi-sama, for example, is *great* at drawing (and hopefully surviving) attention.

Click to shrink...

Well, maybe, but in the long term I do want our Bushi to rise, and I think we have something...potentially, at least, in the connections to Otomo. Imperial politics seem like they'd be fun to get involved in--for us, if not the MC. Not sure what qualifies as 'status-seeking' so we might be on board, but I definitely didn't get the feeling that our MC lacked ambition or was content to be a backbencher. I mean, the disconnect is that I don't know how the two are different.

People taking us into our confidence, thinking well of us, and being indebted towards us is HOW you play the (Game of thrones/politics, the game of being alive/insert reference) and I'm not sure how that wouldn't translate into status, unofficial or not. I mean, unless we expect nobody will really notice that we sit in the center of a web of contacts. Other people are subtle too, and if we do manage to do well, they'll likely manage to recognize that we have power...

I think I'm getting on track here, but I also think I *might* be overly ambitious for Naoto. I want him to be going to a much more important Winter Court next year, having clawed his way upwards. Heck, if this Quest lasts long enough, I want to see him lose a game of Go to the Emperor, because that sounds really cool.

 

[Maugan Ra]

My intended plot offers you opportunities to gain significant levels of Glory and Status, but it's not a requirement. Generally speaking though, it's important to remember that Glory merely determines how likely people are to recognize you, and they'll then react as appropriate for your deeds.

It's also worth remembering that 'how my leaders feel about me' is also represented by your Glory. More glory means more prestigious assignments and more support from the Scorpion, as well as more recognition by the other Clans. That's not the same as being publicly famous or being in the spotlight, because Rokugani politics is largely conducted indirectly through intermediaries anyway.

 

[Sirrocco]

Well, maybe, but in the long term I do want our Bushi to rise, and I think we have something...potentially, at least, in the connections to Otomo. Imperial politics seem like they'd be fun to get involved in--for us, if not the MC. Not sure what qualifies as 'status-seeking' so we might be on board, but I definitely didn't get the feeling that our MC lacked ambition or was content to be a backbencher. I mean, the disconnect is that I don't know how the two are different.

People taking us into our confidence, thinking well of us, and being indebted towards us is HOW you play the (Game of thrones/politics, the game of being alive/insert reference) and I'm not sure how that wouldn't translate into status, unofficial or not. I mean, unless we expect nobody will really notice that we sit in the center of a web of contacts. Other people are subtle too, and if we do manage to do well, they'll likely manage to recognize that we have power...

I think I'm getting on track here, but I also think I *might* be overly ambitious for Naoto. I want him to be going to a much more important Winter Court next year, having clawed his way upwards. Heck, if this Quest lasts long enough, I want to see him lose a game of Go to the Emperor, because that sounds really cool.

Click to shrink...

Oh, I'm absolutely ambitious as well. All I was saying was that Naoto doesn't have any real use for the sorts of Glory you get for being the center of attention in a really big way. There are a lot of standard courtier tactics and build strategies that are based around the idea that being the center of attention in a big way is A Good Thing, and to be pursued. I was just noting that it doesn't look like those do as much for us as they might for others, and that we should adjust our views on generic courtier strategy appropriately.

 

[Kelenas]

Okay... this is the point where I need to bring up a Major Salient Fact - our primary objective here.

Our *primary* objective at this Winter court - the entire reason we're here - is to try to keep relations with the Matsu from decaying so far that they close Beiden Pass. That's *hugely* important for the health and well-being of the Scorpion Clan as a whole. Having the Matsu decide to come storming across the pass at us would be even worse.

Click to shrink...

Hm... maybe we should try and consider how the other clans and their possible interests might figure into this? See what sort of problems we might face in that regard, and who might be helpful to have on our side in dealing with them?

Giving it another try to analyze the situation, though somewhat disordered:

- The Crab definitely want the Pass to be open due to its importance in their own trade, so we shouldn't really have to do anything here. However, it's rather clear that they're not really all that happy with the Lion, from their reaction to our gift, and possibly their own gift as well (depending on how we interpret it). So, it might be a good chance to ingratiate ourselves with them anyway; either simply for the future, to keep relations between our clans good, or in order to help us in dealing with someone else at the court.

- The Phoenix seems to genuinely want to get everyone along, which should translate into the Pass being open to allow for trade, diplomatic exchange, and so on. However, she seemed rather concerned about our gift, possibly due to misinterpreting it. Depending on her own analysis of the situation, and possibly nudging from someone else, she might come to the conclusion that it would be best for the Pass to be closed for a while, in order to cut off some Scorpion-plot that might otherwise cause strife, at least in her mind. It would probably be a good idea to try and build a good relation with her, if only to alleviate her concerns.

- The Dragon... I'm somewhat unsure about. On one hand, the picture (which he painted himself) might appear as a subtle insult to the Lion; the Lioness jumps recklessly and is going to be killed or heavily injured by her targets for it.
However, he *did* go and paint those Ronin she targets in the colours associated with the Scorpion clan. In a way this might also be an insult aimed at us through the implied lack of honour (if they're meant to be bandits) or destitution (due to their disheveled appearance). On the other hand, it might also be meant as some sort of subtle warning for the Lion, that we might pose some danger to them if they act recklessly against us, no matter how weak/disheveled we might appear as.
Considering how he wasn't mentioned reacting particularly strongly - whether good or bad - to our own gift and its hidden messages, I think that it would be a good idea to keep an eye on him and perhaps try to find out more.

- The Crane obviously dislikes the Lion, a LOT (to say the least), while we already made a favorable impression; both with our gift, and with our meeting with Chen. However, it is quite possible, in my opinion, that they might have a strong interest in seeing the Beiden Pass closed, because doing so would hurt the Lion, however indirectly, through the lack of trade. It might not be their main objective, but something they wouldn't mind accomplishing. As such, they might very well end up opposing us even if they like us personally. In that regard, it might be a good idea to figure out everything about what they want/need, and see if perhaps we can offer them something that is worth more to them than seeing Beiden Pass closed and the Lion thus hurt.

- The Unicorn wants something from the Lion, given how, as Sirrocco pointed out, them giving horses - or the opportunity to earn horses - is a Really Big Thing(tm) from them. Influence on the daimyo's sons is one obvious benefit, but there might also be other things that they wish to accomplish, here.
In regards to the Pass, they control the western pass through the mountains, according to the map I found, so whether or not Beiden Pass is open is probably of no real consequence to them in terms of travel or trade, meaning they'll go with whatever they think will help their goals more. As such, they're probably a neutral actor in that regard, and could be swayed in either direction depending on their further purpose(s) at this court, and how someone might be able to help them accomplish it.

- The Mantis and/or Wasp like neither the Lion, nor us. As such, it is quite likely, in my opinion, that seeing Beiden Pass closed is one of their possible goals at this court, as it would harm both the Lion and the Scorpion; definitely a win-win in their books. And as an added bonus, with the most convenient land route closed, some clans or merchants might decide to transport their goods via the sea, which the Mantis would gain from.
As such, it's quite possible that they're going to be one of our main antagonists/opponents at this court, and it might be a very good idea to try and keep an eye on who they meet with, and what they talk about.

- The Otome basically just cares about getting his bloody job done, but he also seemed to like us and our gift's hidden messages. I don't think he'll really weigh in on whether Beiden Pass should be open/closed, unless someone convinces him that doing either will make his job vastly easier/harder. However, as Sirrocco stated, he can apparently really ruin people's year. So, it's definitely in our best interest to make sure we stay on his good side, and try to maneuver potential opponents so that they'll end up in his crosshairs while he's in a foul mood.



What do you guys think? Any things I'm likely to have missed or misinterpreted? Maybe any guesses for why a particular delegation might be here?

 

[EtchedSteel]

[X] Sirrocco

 

[Sirrocco]

stuff

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure the Otomo wants the pass open. Closing the pass would cause a fair bit of damage to trade in the Empire, and would thus harm the rebuilding efforts that he wants.

The bit about the Mantis is an excellent point, and not one I'd considered. The Unicorn are similar in a way - if they control a different pass, then having this one shut down is in some ways good for them. I've no real idea how high a priority it is for either side, and that's something to look into.

One of the better ways to get people on our side in this thing is to build trade links through the pass that others will care about - generally meaning trade with the Crab and/or with us. Unfortunately the flip side is also true. If the Crane are in heavy competition with us for trade, then it is to their benefit to have the pass closed, as it means that it'll be harder for us to get our goods to market.