In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
[X] Admiring the scenery
Lore roll on the Crane please.
Lore roll on the Crane please.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
The man's Daidoji. Considering that they serve as bodyguards and the military backbone of the Crane, this isn't surprising.
That said, where are you getting this?
In general terms , well, it's court and they are crane. You might as well l ask for why the crab are at the wall.
That said, in more specific terms it might be an interesting question if they have any particular interest in this particular court in this or just here as SOP.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Hmm...
I have little input at the moment on the crane. He seems... in many ways our counterpart. If we say we were admiring the castle, we speak more as a warrior. If we say we were admiring the scenery (which we were), then we pander more to the crane thing about beauty.
Given that, though, it's best to go with the truth, if only because the more lies one must hold up, the trickier things get - it's better to save them for where they are most useful.
[X] Admiring the scenery
The dragon is interesting. He *probably* doesn't have a whole lot of influence. Getting on his good side looks like it's pretty easy, but it also looks like he's not all that inclined to be on anyone's bad side. Still - no ally is useless. The Scorpion have had enough hours of desperate need in recent memory to be quite aware of that.
I have little input at the moment on the crane. He seems... in many ways our counterpart. If we say we were admiring the castle, we speak more as a warrior. If we say we were admiring the scenery (which we were), then we pander more to the crane thing about beauty.
Given that, though, it's best to go with the truth, if only because the more lies one must hold up, the trickier things get - it's better to save them for where they are most useful.
[X] Admiring the scenery
The dragon is interesting. He *probably* doesn't have a whole lot of influence. Getting on his good side looks like it's pretty easy, but it also looks like he's not all that inclined to be on anyone's bad side. Still - no ally is useless. The Scorpion have had enough hours of desperate need in recent memory to be quite aware of that.
Lore Check - Crane Clan
- Location
- London, England
Lore (Crane Clan) 5k4: 21
The Crane Clan suffered massively during the Clan Wars. Much of their power and influence was built to focus on the political scene and relied in many ways upon a strong Emperor to maintain the world in which they operated. After the Coup, though, the Emperor was an inexperienced and sickly boy married to a Scorpion with a grudge against them, and they paid dearly for it.
The most notable points about the Crane's involvement in the Clan Wars centered around the mysterious doppelgänger that imitated their Clan Champion, Doji Hoturi. This 'False Hoturi' was crude and insulting, ruining many alliances, and swiftly became corrupted by the Taint after venturing into the Shadowlands. He lead an army of shadowlands monsters to burn down Shiro Kakita and severely damage Kyuden Doji, as well as inflicting untold damage on towns and villages under Crane rule. It was only the return of the real Doji Hoturi, who later went on to become the Crane Thunder, that put an end to the imposter's rampage.
You don't know what the Crane are looking for here, but you suspect they very much desire a long lasting peace and the rebuilding of sundered alliances. By the end of the Clan Wars the Crane effectively didn't have an army any more, and were heavily reliant on Yoritomo's Alliance just to defend their own lands. It seems reasonable to conclude that their ties with the newly formed Mantis Clan will be strong, and that they will not be ready allies to the Lion or Crab who were the main forces responsible for the damage to their lands. Beyond that, it is difficult to say.
Generally speaking, Crane diplomacy relies upon doing favors and making friends. Their courtiers specialize in finding what you want and making sure you get it, in the expectation of returned favours a later date. They are a heavily political Clan, now more than ever, and it is often said that there is a Crane in every court.
The Crane Clan suffered massively during the Clan Wars. Much of their power and influence was built to focus on the political scene and relied in many ways upon a strong Emperor to maintain the world in which they operated. After the Coup, though, the Emperor was an inexperienced and sickly boy married to a Scorpion with a grudge against them, and they paid dearly for it.
The most notable points about the Crane's involvement in the Clan Wars centered around the mysterious doppelgänger that imitated their Clan Champion, Doji Hoturi. This 'False Hoturi' was crude and insulting, ruining many alliances, and swiftly became corrupted by the Taint after venturing into the Shadowlands. He lead an army of shadowlands monsters to burn down Shiro Kakita and severely damage Kyuden Doji, as well as inflicting untold damage on towns and villages under Crane rule. It was only the return of the real Doji Hoturi, who later went on to become the Crane Thunder, that put an end to the imposter's rampage.
You don't know what the Crane are looking for here, but you suspect they very much desire a long lasting peace and the rebuilding of sundered alliances. By the end of the Clan Wars the Crane effectively didn't have an army any more, and were heavily reliant on Yoritomo's Alliance just to defend their own lands. It seems reasonable to conclude that their ties with the newly formed Mantis Clan will be strong, and that they will not be ready allies to the Lion or Crab who were the main forces responsible for the damage to their lands. Beyond that, it is difficult to say.
Generally speaking, Crane diplomacy relies upon doing favors and making friends. Their courtiers specialize in finding what you want and making sure you get it, in the expectation of returned favours a later date. They are a heavily political Clan, now more than ever, and it is often said that there is a Crane in every court.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[x] Admiring the scenery
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
I think they never find that out in the main timeline? But even if they find out... I don't think they do much about it. They lack the strength of arms and pretty much are trying to rebuild.
Also holy crap, things moves a lot after a day of inactivity :\
[X] Admiring the scenery
Also holy crap, things moves a lot after a day of inactivity :\
[X] Admiring the scenery
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I doubt she would just magically not have it given how vindictive a woman she is.
[X] Admiring the scenery
[X] Admiring the scenery
- Location
- London, England
It's worth noting that Kachiko's grudge was pretty much entirely centered around Doji Hoturi, who she loved and bore a son with... a son that he unknowingly killed during the Coup. Pretty much everything she did against the Crane Clan stemmed from that vendetta.
That said, Hoturi died during the Second Day of Thunder, struck down even as he stabbed Fu Leng in the heart. Kachiko sat at his side as he died, and they reconciled in that last moment.
As far as anyone can tell, Kachiko has abandoned her vendetta against the Crane. It's widely known that such actions stemmed from the fact that Hoturi killed her son, though as far as almost anyone (including Naoto) knows Shoju was the boy's father. Thus, most Rokugani can understand her motivations, and are willing to forgive them based on the touching reconciliation she had with Hoturi.
Note that most of what Kachiko did is actually unknown to the Crane, because the Scorpion Empress was very good at acting subtly and deflecting suspicion. Thus they hold more of a grudge against the Lion and Crab, who were vastly more obvious enemies.
1.13 Meeting Daidoji Chen
- Location
- London, England
"Merely admiring the scenery, Daidoji-san." You say, your smile hidden behind your mask as you gesture to the surrounding terrain. "I would imagine that there is no other place in the Empire to offer a view such as this. It would be a shame to come here and then not take the time to appreciate it."
"A worthy sentiment, Soshi-san." Daidoji Chen agrees, studying the slopes of the mountains. "I am almost envious of the Matsu, to have their home located in a place of such beauty. But then, this must be almost nostalgic for you."
"Shiro no Soshi is likewise located in the high mountains, so I can most certainly see the appeal." You say with a nod. "But reputation would lead me to assume that Shiro no Daidoji is likewise aesthetically pleasing. The Crane are well renowned for blending martial prowess with the creation of beauty."
"It pleases me to hear you say that, Soshi-san. And yes, my home has many beautiful gardens and is filled with marvelous works for art. We cannot boast great mountains in our lands as you can, but we make do." Chen says with fond nostalgia. "Alas, the recent wars have scarred both of our lands, scars which may not heal for a great many years. I expect your Clan is rather consumed with the need to rebuild?"
"It saddens me to hear that, Daidoji-san, but you need not fear for the Scorpion." You say in a sympathetic fashion. "Shiro no Soshi has already been rebuilt, and I am given to understand that Kyuden Bayushi will be fully repaired in the spring."
Chen pauses at this, his eyes narrowing as he studies you. For your part, you merely smile blandly. In truth you do not know precisely how your Clan accomplished such a rapid rebuilding, but you suspect there was probably a great deal of prior preparation and illusion magic involved. Regardless, the Scorpion have always specialized in hiding their methods and their strength, so while this will be an unwelcome surprise to the Crane it should not be unbelievable. Such were the instructions handed down by Bayushi Kachiko-dono before your delegation set off - admit to strength, but hide the specifics.
(Besides, it's the sort of deception that will fall apart immediately in the spring when trade and business resumes through the supposedly destroyed castles. Better to reveal it now, on your own terms.)
"That is good news indeed, Soshi-san." Chen eventually says. "Though I doubt the Matsu will be pleased to hear it."
"Your suspicions are likely correct, Daidoji-san. Why, it might be better if we avoid distressing our hosts by offering such details too soon."
The Daidoji family are predominately warriors, but Chen evidently has enough understanding of courtly protocol to realize the potential value of your words. If the Crane are negotiating with the Lion, a superior understanding of the Lion's neighbors could be very useful indeed. And if they are the only ones to understand the possibility of trade with a restored Scorpion, then they effectively have first claim to the potential gains therein.
It is, in short, a gift of knowledge and a sign of potential cooperation being offered from the Scorpion to the Crane. And such a gift must be repaid.
"Your grasp of courtesy is truly impressive, Soshi-san." Daidoji Chen compliments you. "Tell me, do you play Go?"
"I flatter myself as having some skill at the game, yes."
"Marvelous. I always enjoy meeting new opponents." Chen says with seemingly genuine warmth. "Perhaps you might honour me with a match tomorrow, after court had concluded?"
And just like that, you have a point of contact within the Crane. You smile and bow. "I look forwards to it, Daidoji-san."
-/-
A short while later, you and Hanzo are kneeling in front of Bayushi Kimoko once more, finishing your report. The older Bushi smiles in genuine pleasure.
"So, court has yet to begin and already we have potential contacts within the Crane, the Dragon and the Imperials." She says slowly. "Very good work. I understand that all of the delegates have now arrived, so we must prepare for the official opening of the court. Go and get dressed, and remember, it is not just the Matsu we need to consider here."
What style do you wish to dress in?
[ ] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
[ ] Tough, practical clothing that will emphasize your martial training.
[ ] Stylish and impressive clothing that will emphasize your courtly skills.
"A worthy sentiment, Soshi-san." Daidoji Chen agrees, studying the slopes of the mountains. "I am almost envious of the Matsu, to have their home located in a place of such beauty. But then, this must be almost nostalgic for you."
"Shiro no Soshi is likewise located in the high mountains, so I can most certainly see the appeal." You say with a nod. "But reputation would lead me to assume that Shiro no Daidoji is likewise aesthetically pleasing. The Crane are well renowned for blending martial prowess with the creation of beauty."
"It pleases me to hear you say that, Soshi-san. And yes, my home has many beautiful gardens and is filled with marvelous works for art. We cannot boast great mountains in our lands as you can, but we make do." Chen says with fond nostalgia. "Alas, the recent wars have scarred both of our lands, scars which may not heal for a great many years. I expect your Clan is rather consumed with the need to rebuild?"
"It saddens me to hear that, Daidoji-san, but you need not fear for the Scorpion." You say in a sympathetic fashion. "Shiro no Soshi has already been rebuilt, and I am given to understand that Kyuden Bayushi will be fully repaired in the spring."
Chen pauses at this, his eyes narrowing as he studies you. For your part, you merely smile blandly. In truth you do not know precisely how your Clan accomplished such a rapid rebuilding, but you suspect there was probably a great deal of prior preparation and illusion magic involved. Regardless, the Scorpion have always specialized in hiding their methods and their strength, so while this will be an unwelcome surprise to the Crane it should not be unbelievable. Such were the instructions handed down by Bayushi Kachiko-dono before your delegation set off - admit to strength, but hide the specifics.
(Besides, it's the sort of deception that will fall apart immediately in the spring when trade and business resumes through the supposedly destroyed castles. Better to reveal it now, on your own terms.)
"That is good news indeed, Soshi-san." Chen eventually says. "Though I doubt the Matsu will be pleased to hear it."
"Your suspicions are likely correct, Daidoji-san. Why, it might be better if we avoid distressing our hosts by offering such details too soon."
The Daidoji family are predominately warriors, but Chen evidently has enough understanding of courtly protocol to realize the potential value of your words. If the Crane are negotiating with the Lion, a superior understanding of the Lion's neighbors could be very useful indeed. And if they are the only ones to understand the possibility of trade with a restored Scorpion, then they effectively have first claim to the potential gains therein.
It is, in short, a gift of knowledge and a sign of potential cooperation being offered from the Scorpion to the Crane. And such a gift must be repaid.
"Your grasp of courtesy is truly impressive, Soshi-san." Daidoji Chen compliments you. "Tell me, do you play Go?"
"I flatter myself as having some skill at the game, yes."
"Marvelous. I always enjoy meeting new opponents." Chen says with seemingly genuine warmth. "Perhaps you might honour me with a match tomorrow, after court had concluded?"
And just like that, you have a point of contact within the Crane. You smile and bow. "I look forwards to it, Daidoji-san."
So, based on your previous actions and the analysis performed alongside people's votes, I figured I'd roll Courtier to see how well you managed to ingratiate yourself with Daidoji Chen. 5k3 came up with a final score of 31.
End result, he's impressed by your savvy and you've earned yourself a way in with the Crane. Have a think about what you intend to do with that.
End result, he's impressed by your savvy and you've earned yourself a way in with the Crane. Have a think about what you intend to do with that.
-/-
A short while later, you and Hanzo are kneeling in front of Bayushi Kimoko once more, finishing your report. The older Bushi smiles in genuine pleasure.
"So, court has yet to begin and already we have potential contacts within the Crane, the Dragon and the Imperials." She says slowly. "Very good work. I understand that all of the delegates have now arrived, so we must prepare for the official opening of the court. Go and get dressed, and remember, it is not just the Matsu we need to consider here."
What style do you wish to dress in?
[ ] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
[ ] Tough, practical clothing that will emphasize your martial training.
[ ] Stylish and impressive clothing that will emphasize your courtly skills.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hmm, damn, not sure how much it matters. What we should discuss is who we want to go after first? Like, what's our aim here. The Lions aren't going to be any help.
Bonus - Sirrocco debates fashion
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Of course it matters. This is the first impression we'll be giving, and everyone will know that it is consciously chosen. Also, the Lion are predisposed to dislike us - but our primary goal here as a delegation essentially boils down to "make sure that the lion don't dislike us too much", and Pale Oak-san specifically wanted information on the behavior and attitudes of the Matsu magistrates.
[ ] Tough, practical clothing that will emphasize your martial training.
- This is the "make friends with the Lion" pick, and will invite them to test us and possibly accept us. There's a potential drawback where we're aligning ourselves away from the peace/rebuild factions, and those are where our more natural allies are. That's mitigated a bit by the fact that we're scorpion, and they'll probably be willing to believe that we're doing it to manipulate the Matsu, but it still has implications. The bigger problem is that we're kind of pathetic in the combat arts as Bushi go. Given that our results when we *are* tested aren't all that likely to be impressive, presenting ourselves as particularly martial now might be seen as posturing, which could cause the Matsu themselves to dislike us. It'd be a good pick if we were more martial ourselves, but I think it's too much risk for too little gain here.
[ ] Stylish and impressive clothing that will emphasize your courtly skills.
- This pushes us more into alignment with the peace faction, and may draw interest from those who would seek us out for courtly things. On the down-side, it's likely to make us look a bit worse in the eyes of the more warlike types. It also openly declares our courtly skills - when those might be better served being revealed in time and place that we choose. We already have an opening with the Otomo and the Crane. The Dragon effectively doesn't matter for this particular game, and it's probably not going to win any friends with the Crab, Lion, Unicorn, or Mantis, all of whom tend to be fairly warlike, and all of whom would have likely sent a generally warlike delegation to the Matsu Winter court. The only ones left are the Phoenix, and those we can approach in person relatively easily after court has opened.
[ ] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
- As Scorpion, I feel like this is the default choice. It plays to a few different things. It plays to everyone's assumptions about our clan - that we are a clan of secrets and lies, and that we don't give out any information without reason. This may confirm a few of the distasteful opinions that some of the Matsu have about us, but is otherwise pretty neutral - and it's not like anything we did was going to dispel those. We're also a younger member of the delegation. It's entirely reasonable that we send signals of "I'm not all that important. You should pay attention to someone else." It feeds into the reputation that we're already starting to build as a somewhat humble, understated individual who is focused more on the informational side of things. It also means that we probably *won't* get quite as much attention - giving us a bit more space to move quietly, rather than being thrust into the center of things. I think that plays to our strengths a bit better.
[x] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
As for who we go after first - now, I think, is the time for watching. We're going to get a rush of information once everyone shows up at Winter Court - even things like "how large is the delegation", "What does the bushi/courtier/shugenja breakdown look like", and "what kind of clothes are *they* wearing" are significant information on how much influence each delegation is likely to have, what they might be there for, and what approaches might or might not work. Best to wait until we have that information before we do anything further.
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
[X] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
The only thing I have to add is that we could use the flashy stylish clothes to provoke the Lion or similar to test the "clotheshorse who thinks he's a bushi." If we were a good duellist I probably would have gone with this. As is, we shouldn't, unless we make a more specific plan for it.
So:
[X] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
If we're going to be an information-broker/scholar type this fits.
So:
[X] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
If we're going to be an information-broker/scholar type this fits.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
[X] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.
- Location
- Canada
[x] Subtle, understated clothing that will deflect attention.