In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

Yeah, that was a bit too much for mere heimen company.

I do not think it has to do with modern morals. It is just wasteful. Wounded heimen do less work, and shodier work as well as resent you for it, thus being further encouraged to do less and shodier work. It is just plain stupid. Like plenty of things in the modern world.

The problem with the Matsu is that they tend- no, they *are* a bunch of matriacal, "more honorable than thou" warmongers, and given how they're the most numerous family in the Lion, they quickly became the stereotype of the clan. They hunger for violence, and they consider it to be their nature, because its what they consider to be part of their function the Lion has as the right hand of the Emperor even after the Akodo got disbanded after the Coup. They wage war because is its duty.

Granted, it doesn't really justifies their position of having to bully their heimin. Perhaps there's a particulary sadistic, cruel Matsu behind this kind of actions, but considering is another clan's business... well, at least we can do something about it, Scorpion style.
 
Can I have a little more discussion about/response to this thing:
Hmm... Hey guys, question.

Instead of openly asking Doji Mariko about whether the orders are fake or not... what if we just get the stuff we need from Ikoma Genji -- the example of the Champion's orders, the wax seal thing -- and then simply leave those things where she can see them?

We don't bring up faked orders. We don't ask her to show us her letter.

Instead, we take the proof and simply... leave it lying around after we leave. So SHE can check it herself.

After we give a suitably subtle/appropriate message about checking orders and stuff.


THAT, to me, seems like a far more Scorpion way to go about things?

Also uh, the current plan had always seemed a little... crude to me.
What if instead of openly talking about faked orders -- thematically/narratively speaking, it didn't work when we first brought it up, so it sounds like we should take a different route rather than just "try again harder" which is what this plan feels like -- we instead gather the evidence we need to show that the letter and/or seal was faked, and then leave it for Doji Mariko to notice?
 
Can I have a little more discussion about/response to this thing:

What if instead of openly talking about faked orders -- thematically/narratively speaking, it didn't work when we first brought it up, so it sounds like we should take a different route rather than just "try again harder" which is what this plan feels like -- we instead gather the evidence we need to show that the letter and/or seal was faked, and then leave it for Doji Mariko to notice?
Does she have enough skill to notice a forgery? Because if she doesn't then that plan fails right out of the gate.
 
Can I have a little more discussion about/response to this thing:

What if instead of openly talking about faked orders -- thematically/narratively speaking, it didn't work when we first brought it up, so it sounds like we should take a different route rather than just "try again harder" which is what this plan feels like -- we instead gather the evidence we need to show that the letter and/or seal was faked, and then leave it for Doji Mariko to notice?
Sure. Tell me how to prove the letter is fake without access to the letter. Or did you mean stealing it?
 
[X] Sirrocco

re: the letter: I don't think Doji Mariko would be the best first contact anyways. Though it's ultimately about her, she's not a pragmatist and would be difficult to convince both because she believes her current orders are legitimate and because if they are not it would be deeply awkward for her to have presided over carrying out such orders. Daidoji Chen would seem a better first contact; his family exists to do what is necessary to defend the Crane, and this indicates a major threat to them, he is more likely to be pragmatic about such matters, and we are on at least neutral terms. Let him carry the evidence to Doji Mariko; claim it as his own work if he wants. That would be far more palatable if it appeared to have been handled in-house.
 
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Have edited my vote to do the hanging out with Ikoma Ganryu, rather than the extra time with Doji Mariko. We do want to get that in at some point, and now's as good a time as any.

[X] Sirrocco

re: the letter: I don't think Doji Mariko would be the best first contact anyways. Though it's ultimately about her, she's not a pragmatist and would be difficult to convince both because she believes her current orders are legitimate and because if they are not it would be deeply awkward for her to have presided over carrying out such orders. Daidoji Chen would seem a better first contact; his family exists to do what is necessary to defend the Crane, and this indicates a major threat to them, he is more likely to be pragmatic about such matters, and we are on at least neutral terms. Let him carry the evidence to Doji Mariko; claim it as his own work if he wants. That would be far more palatable if it appeared to have been handled in-house.

I agree with some of that. There are problems with it, though.
- There's no way for us to even talk about it with Daidoji Chen without betraying Doji Mariko's trust at least a little.
- There is a marginal chance that Daidoji Chen is part of the group that is behind this.
- Trying to talk with him about it rather than her very quickly turns into a case of trying to pit them against one another... and "Scorpion trying to pit two crane against one another" is *really* not the image we want to be presenting to those in the Crane delegation. They might or might not talk as much as we do over in the Scorpions, but I guarantee they talk.
- We don't actually know where he stands on this thing. In the conversations we've had, Daidoji Chen has been really pretty intense about Duty.
- We don't necessarily want to trust him with anything valuable (like, say, any letters we manage to wheedle out of Ikoma Genji. He's a Crane. He could very easily sabotage the whole thing for Honorable Crane Reasons.
 
I meant getting whatever it is we're supposed to be getting from... Ikoma Genji I think? getting that stuff, and just leaving it with the Cranes.
You're trusting them to follow through on something they find *deeply* uncomfortable... and you're trusting their eyes to see something that they don't want to see, when the "safe" choice (honorably speaking) is to not see it. Also, you're trusting them with this thing that was entrusted to us by Ikoma Genji. All of these together... do not paint a pretty picture.
 
I meant getting whatever it is we're supposed to be getting from... Ikoma Genji I think? getting that stuff, and just leaving it with the Cranes.
Also trusting Cranes to be competent at a skill all of them find dishonorable and unthinkable. Would you like to ask Kakita-san to sneak into Doji-san bedroom and steal her stuff too?
I mean some of them probably know at least a bit to avoid ambushes but none of them have our skillset.
 
I agree with some of that. There are problems with it, though.
- There's no way for us to even talk about it with Daidoji Chen without betraying Doji Mariko's trust at least a little.
- There is a marginal chance that Daidoji Chen is part of the group that is behind this.
- Trying to talk with him about it rather than her very quickly turns into a case of trying to pit them against one another... and "Scorpion trying to pit two crane against one another" is *really* not the image we want to be presenting to those in the Crane delegation. They might or might not talk as much as we do over in the Scorpions, but I guarantee they talk.
- We don't actually know where he stands on this thing. In the conversations we've had, Daidoji Chen has been really pretty intense about Duty.
- We don't necessarily want to trust him with anything valuable (like, say, any letters we manage to wheedle out of Ikoma Genji. He's a Crane. He could very easily sabotage the whole thing for Honorable Crane Reasons.

- We are Scorpion. We are not really required to explain how we obtain access to materials we are not supposed to have, we can merely let people assume that nefarious means have been been employed...and indeed, that might yet be true. We'll need the original letter and I doubt it will just be given to us. We're also practiced liars, supposedly. We can come up with a suitable cover story. Doji Mariko herself might guess the truth, and think poorly of us, but we do not have to betray her confidences to Daidoji Chen. At least in any way that he or anyone besides Doji Mariko will realize it has been done. This is Rokugan; if the act is not acknowledged, it did not happen.
- This is true of arguably all of the Crane delegation, including Doji Mariko. (Actually the only persons I think we can conclusively rule out are either heimen or our buddy the Ikoma and ourselves.) The only Crane who's been truly unfiltered in our presence is the Kakita, and that wasn't for any reason that would have given us insight in this matter.
- This approach does not necessarily preclude taking more direct measures if he chooses not to act on it for some reason. You are assuming, in fact, that it has to be couched in this sense of "please speak to Doji Mariko about this". Just classic Scorpion favor-trading; here is a problem in your Clan with your Duty to the Champion being subverted; you may want to look into it. At some point in the future, I may call upon you to perform a service. Again, Doji Mariko might get it, but there's not too much reason to assume Daidoji Chen necessarily would. We haven't really given away much to any Crane about our interest in this subject, save a single statement to Doji Mariko about letters.
- Most Samurai would define their Duty to their Clan Champion as higher than any other save possibly their Duty to the Emperor. Proof his efforts are being subverted would be hard for them to ignore.
- He could. Of course, this is true of any Crane, including Doji Mariko, who has deliberately rejected this line of thought once already if she is to be believed. There is also a non-zero chance that in the near future Daidoji Chen will be the only Crane left at this court.
 
Hey @Night ? Tell me what you know about Daidoji Chen. If you could please. Since my argument is that we do not know enough about him to approach him right, or trust him not to have "Only Crane left in Court" as part of his objectives.
 
4.14 - Fourteenth Day of the Boar
12th Day of the Boar (Afternoon)

Fortunately, arranging a meeting with Ikoma Genji is relatively simple. He is still an attendee of the court, and while there are no doubt some among your fellow guests who are trying to deduce the hidden meaning behind his every last move, sometimes even a respected karo can simply desire friendly conversation.

"I understand that your lord is keeping you quite busy." He comments as you walk through the corridors of Shiro Matsu. The trick is not to find somewhere that you cannot be overheard, but rather to find somewhere where only those loyal to your fellow conspirators could possibly overhear - a much easier proposition in a place like this than, say, Kyuden Bayushi. Of course just about anywhere is an easier place to keep a secret than Kyuden Bayushi, but that's besides the point.

"Hai, Ikoma-sama." You reply, and you don't have to fake the slight edge of fatigue in your words. "I have no doubt my training will make me a better samurai, but it does demand a significant investment of time. Which reminds me - I believe I may have come up with a solution to that riddle you asked me the other day."

"Oh?" Genji says casually, raising an eyebrow. "That was fast. Clearly, I shall have to make the next one harder."

You wince slightly, in order to convey to any watchers that this is simply an ongoing challenge between the two of you. Games of riddles and other mental challenges are a reasonably common pastime at court, so it shouldn't stand out too much. "Well, perhaps - I should hate to tarnish my reputation in your eyes. Maybe I will take another few days to consider it at length. That said, I think some of my companions might appreciate the opportunity to try their own luck at something similar. Would you happen to have any more riddles, in the same style, that they might be able to attempt?"

Ikoma Genji is an intelligent man trained in a school that emphasizes the ability to hold and compare large quantities of knowledge in one's memory. It does not take him long to piece together the true meaning of your request, and after a long pause he inclines his head. "I imagine that would be possible. Give me a day or two to find something appropriate."

Meaning that he doesn't have any of the letters on-hand and will need to speak to his 'old friend' in order to acquire a sample for comparison. Not perfect, but good enough.

-/-

13th Day of the Boar

As was perhaps to be expected, some of the closeness you were developing with Doji Mariko has receded after the rather dramatic ending to the Festival. She is still willing to speak with you, and indeed at the moment the two of you are playing Go on the balcony overlooking the main court chamber, but there is a certain reserve to her now that was not visible beforehand. She still seems fond of you, but equally there is a bond of some kind between her and Sekawa - forged by long association if nothing else. You suspect that she is currently feeling somewhat torn between the two of you, so out of respect for her evident desires you dial back the quiet flirting and suggested intimacy.

Sometimes, someone just needs a little bit of space while they get their feelings in order. In the mean-time, Mariko is slowly improving as a Go player, and her progress is equally apparent to the both of you.

"Thank you for taking the time to tutor me, Soshi-san." She says with a soft smile, placing down one of her pieces on the game board. "I know you have many constraints upon your free time of late."

"Less than you might expect, Doji-sama." You counter, laying down your own piece before nodding in the direction of the vacant throne at the far end of the hall. "With the honored Daimyo otherwise occupied, my courtly duties are not as time consuming as they might otherwise be."

Mariko looks at you for a moment, no doubt sensing that there is more to the comment than meets the eye, and nods. "True. I wonder what our honourable host is occupied with?"

"Personal training, as I understand it. As to be expected of the Matsu." You reply casually, before dropping your voice to a subtle whisper as you convey the truly important part. "Along with Matsu Heijiko."

Mariko pauses, all visible motion locked away behind a perfectly composed mask. She considers the board between you for a moment, then sets down her stone to one side. "I yield. Thank you for the game, Soshi-san. It was... enlightening."

"Any time, Doji-sama." You reply, and struggle to keep your thoughts hidden as Mariko turns and leaves the balcony. Well, you've passed on your message, and there isn't really enough time left to do anything else. Hopefully it is enough.

-/-

Fourteenth Day of the Boar

You return to Shiro Matsu in a thoughtful mood. Ikoma Ganyu was quite willing to accept your invitation to the theater, and sufficiently impressed with the Five Arches that he allowed his tongue to loosen somewhat. Apparently Pale Oak has already made good on his promise to provide extra Heimin scribes to the magistrates, and Ganyu for one is exceptionally glad of the assistance. He won't talk about ongoing cases casually, but you get the impression he might be willing to discuss specific incidents if you ask politely. Another useful resource you may be able to call upon in the future.

The play that you saw was a romantic tragedy - a common enough tale in a land where the blessing of Benten is so often associated with trouble and the breaking of hearts. It centered around a Lion samurai of unknown family named 'Arimi', and the secret lover that she frequently visited whenever her duties as a karo left her able. Perhaps inevitably the affair was eventually found out and Arimi was disgraced before the court of her lord, who was so incensed that he not only commanded her to commit seppuku but gave her a wooden blade. Even in the lands of the Scorpion you know such an action as a mortal insult, for a wooden sword implies that you are either too dishonourable or simply too cowardly to actually go through with the deed.

You must remember to commend the actress who played Arimi, for the sheer impact of the scene when she performed the three cuts with the wooden sword in front of the entire court was astounding. The Lion samurai watching it with you appeared to be profoundly affected by the display, and solemnly approving of the message their unknown ancestor sought to teach with her last breath.

It is, perhaps, a very Lion decision to remember such a woman in the same way as honoured war heroes.

Still, you have little enough time for such thoughts now. Ahead of you a crowd has gathered around the perimeter of one of the parade squares, and through the gap in their ranks you believe you can see Kakita Sekawa preparing for his duel with Matsu Heijiko. The sense of anticipation is thick upon the air.

What do you want to do?
[ ] Observe the duel.
- [ ] Stand with your fellow Scorpion, so that you might better coordinate your response to whatever happens.
- [ ] Stand near Doji Mariko, to offer her some degree of support.
- [ ] Stand near the Lion, so you can read and perhaps influence their reaction to the whole affair.
- [ ] Stand somewhere else (write in)
[ ] Do not observe the duel. Do something else instead. (Write in)
 
[X] Observe the duel.
- [X] Stand near Doji Mariko, to offer her some degree of support.


It's either this or stand with the Scorpion. Amusingly enough, doing this probably also helps throw off any possible suspicions of our actions with Ikoma Genji.
 
I have no idea what would be best here?

That is, beside watching the duel, as we do have some interest in its results.

Maybe be close to the Crane?
 
[X] Observe the duel.
- [X] Stand with your fellow Scorpion, so that you might better coordinate your response to whatever happens.
 
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[X] Observe the duel.
- [X] Stand near Doji Mariko, to offer her some degree of support.
 
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[X] Observe the duel.
- [X] Stand with your fellow Scorpion, so that you might better coordinate your response to whatever happens.


Not sure it's a good idea to openly show support/connection to Crane in this court.
 
[X] Observe the duel.
- [X] Stand with your fellow Scorpion, so that you might better coordinate your response to whatever happens.
 
So... if Kakita Sekawa dies (a distinct possibility) then standing with Mariko will help us in any last-minute attempts to influence her, and/or in any attempts to influence Daidoji Chen (assuming that Chen isn't in on it). If he lives, it will help us press the case with her. This will also cost us with the Lion, but probably not all that much more than this has already cost us, given recent events. Not being able to coordinate quickly with our fellow Scorpion may also cost us, but... I do not see it costing us all that much. We know our script for right now.

[] Observe the duel.
- [] Stand near Doji Mariko, to offer her some degree of support.


Once we offered to stand for the duel, the ship on "Naoto supporting the Crane" pretty much sailed.

edit: because @primemountain makes a good point about not distracting Kakita Sekawa

[X] Observe the duel.
- [X] Stand with your fellow Scorpion, so that you might better coordinate your response to whatever happens.
 
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