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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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So, explanation of my write-in. My objectives:
- Reduce the hate that Kakita Sekawa feels for us
- Maintain our relationship with Doji Mariko
- Get the hell out of that duel with Matsu Hijiko oh my goodness it'll get us killed.
- Minimize any damage in the courts that we might incur from backing out of our duel with Matsu Heijiko
- Not die or get crippled here, tonight.

Now, given currently available information, Kakita Sekawa is actually being *entirely reasonable*. He's right. If we fight Matsu Heijiko, then we'll die, and Doji Mariko will die, and he'll have failed, and that will suck. He's doing us a *tremendous* favor right now... with a few caveats attached, which we'll want to manage. In any case, we lose nothing by being respectful, so we should be respectful.

For Kakita Sekawa, we spin the story of why we did this in a way that's largely accurate, and one that he'll enjoy hearing. He probably finds the Matsu pretty offensive too - and I guarantee that he's keenly aware of the bit where someone gets pissed off and pulled into a duel that they shouldn't ever have gone into. His school exploits that stuff regularly. It also eliminates any moral high ground we might have had about the bit where he let his emotions pull him inappropriately, and (as long as he buys it, which he'll want to) reassures him that this isn't some weird Scorpion Plot to dishonor or kill his Lord. It was just his rival being understandably dumb for a moment. It also lets him reclaim his rightful place as her champion by force of arms, in front of her, where he can be all shiny and Iajutsu, and all that it asks is that he dial back on his desire to kill/maim us. It also has us standing in the place of Respectful and Honorable Adversary (who happens to be weaker where it really counts, and we all know it) - a box that, I suspect, he'll be all too happy to put us in at least for a little while, and it does all of this in a way that shouldn't make him look any worse in front of Doji Mariko.

For Doji Mariko, we are giving her a way out of a rather uncomfortable situation where she probably doesn't have to lose anything. She was probably dismayed by hearing about Matsu Heijiko as well. We *are* acknowledging somethign of a loss of control, but it was one motivated by respect for her, and likely won't do us any real harm here. We're also presenting ourselves as "the reasonable one" in many ways. If this night goes more or less as planned, Kakita Sekawa may get a fair amount of credit with her, but we shouldnt' lose a whole lot.

For the duel to the death, I really don't see us winning this one, so not so much of a concern, yeah?

For the court, we have two Crane and a Scorpion who are prepared to present to the court that this thing happened, we may well have an obvious wound, and the Matsu would much rather duel him than us anyway. Any fallout we might suffer should be manageable.

Additionally, I've edited in some changes suggested by @overmind and @Hydroplatypus.
 
Jaertin said:
[x] Sirocco

This gets us mostly out of trouble... I'm half expecting the dice fairies to screw us by giving us the win.
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I imagine he'll spend void on his roll given its importance to him, as well as take an honor reroll if he fails given its importance. Combine that with the skill disparity it seems highly unlikely that we'll win this. Especially given the probable skill difference.
 
Jaertin said:
[x] Sirocco

This gets us mostly out of trouble... I'm half expecting the dice fairies to screw us by giving us the win.
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I'm not honestly sure how iajutsu works here, but he almost certainly has the edge on us in void, and he absolutely has the edge on us in iajutsu skill. We *might* have the edge on him in reflexes, but I wouldn't bet on it. Also, his school is much better tuned for this stuff than ours is, and "to first blood" is a common enough dueling form that it's not like he wouldn't be prepared to dominate in it.
 
Sirrocco said:
I'm not honestly sure how iajutsu works here, but he almost certainly has the edge on us in void, and he absolutely has the edge on us in iajutsu skill. We *might* have the edge on him in reflexes, but I wouldn't bet on it. Also, his school is much better tuned for this stuff than ours is, and "to first blood" is a common enough dueling form that it's not like he wouldn't be prepared to dominate in it.
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Plus, he'll be throwing everything and the kitchen sink into winning this, while we're spending no resources whatsoever beyond the HP he'll take off us. I imagine that that will slant things even more in his favor.
 
[x] Sirocco

So I just caught up and oh my god what the hell were you guys thinking with that duel

While it admittedly made Crane-chan open up to us about the letter that's worthless if we're dead
 
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[x] Very well, Kakita-san. Your point is well-taken. I admit that I may have been hasty when making my offer. Matsu Heijiko was just so *very* offensive to Doji-sama that I could not bear to simply stand by. I suspect you are the better duelist, and I will gladly give you a duel in which you may prove it, if that will lead to her having the best available defender.
[x] At the same time, I cannot help but notice that we are some distance from the city, up a winding rocky trail, with no Shugenja anywhere nearby. I suspect that a duel fought until one of us can no longer stand would be a duel to the death in truth, no matter what either of us might wish. That *would* require me to request permission from my Lord. Given that, might your honor be satisfied by an iajutsu duel to first blood, instead?
[x] If he accepts, then fight honorably, expect to lose, and try to learn something as you do. Burn void on reducing wounds if the wound would otherwise be severe or crippling, but having (for example), a nice large gash in a semi-visible place isn't bad. It'll be more satisfying to Sekawa, and make the whole thing look better for when we go to sell this to the court.
[X] If he insists that the duel be until one can no longer stand, and will not budge, insist that it be done in a more formal setting to avoid unintended consequences.
 
An alternative path:

[X]Sigh and allow your On to slip to show frustration. "Since we have gotten this far, I do not suppose I could convince you to forget this night ever happened and repeat this performance if necessary, in, say two days? I had bought several days with the necessity of getting permission from my Lord. I doubt the Lion would grant you a similar extension. If at such time the issue has not been resolved, and the duel is still planned to go on, I will of course forfeit the honor to you Kakita-san.Would that be acceptable? "

[X]Should he refuse continue:"Such a wasted opportunity. If you are so convinced to go against your Ladies wisdom, then have at it. I won't waste my time in futile posturing. And I've little wish to leave you injured for your upcoming duel. My apologies Doji-sama, I did what I could to free you from this plot. But it would seem your retainers wish your death.

For make no mistake, when you win this duel Kakita-san, soon enough you'll be crossing blades with Matsu after Matsu, and should they all fail, Ketsui-dono. Even should the Fortunes grant you victory then, after that you won't leave Shiro Matsu alive. And you'll take Doji-sama down with you."
*****
The purpose of this being that Genji asked us to figure out what was going on with the Crane. Once honor duels start spilling blood, any chance of stoping this plot goes down considerably. With the knoledge we have now, we could ask Genji for a copy of a letter from the Crane Clan champion sent to the master that is his friend, then bring that to Doji to see if the letter was messed with. We could do that in the time we bought by stepping in, before Kakita starts a bloodbath. Should we fail at all that, we can allways fall back on Sirroccos plan.

Make it seem like we never doubted his provers, we merely took the challange on as an attempt to siderail a plot against his Lady, one we saw coming since we were Scorpion. This is not some straightforward insult, its a hidden plot to get the Crane and the Lion at each others throats.

PS: this is all assuming a duel between Kakita and the Lion would be faster to arange then one between us and the Lion.
 
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[X] Accept the challenge (will begin an Iaijutsu duel against Kakita Sekawa)

..Too afraid we're going to win if I vote Sirocco.
 
I'd like to encourage people to vote primemountain.
Tiny Squids write in does sidestep the problem with a minimum of risk, however this allows us to use this to develop our position.
I think by saying part of the reason we volunteered was to buy time would encourage Mariko who is currently feeling the waters for whether we can help her find a way to survive the winter court. It helps appease the Kattika because it's our admission we didn't volunteer because we thought we could do it better, rather we were offering something that they could not get otherwise.
Also I feel that his speculation that once the dam will break after the first duel and challenges will start flooding in is accurate. I don't expect to be able to solve the mystery before then, however I do hope to make to inroads.
 
Bommelom said:
[X] Accept the challenge (will begin an Iaijutsu duel against Kakita Sekawa)

..Too afraid we're going to win if I vote Sirocco.
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So, just to verify, you think that the risk of winning an iajutsu duel to first blood against a Kakita is higher than the risk that, after being stabbed until we cannot stand by said Kakita, we might die out here?

primemountain said:
An alternative path:
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It's an *interesting* plan, and not a terrible one. It depends on a few things, though. The first is that it depends on the Crane being okay with twisting the Honorable Crane Tradition of an iajutsu duel to our own ends. Doji Mariko really was given an absolutely vile insult earlier today, and the duel that is being fought is over *that*. Saying that we're scheming to have the duel not happen is saying that we're scheming to let Matsu Heijiko get away with that. I'm not convinced that that would fly for either of them.

Additionally, getting permission from Bayushi Kimoko is not going to take several days. We see her every day... and if she said no (which would be out of character), then it would be right back to the Kakita anyway, and yanking *us* from the duel does nothing to pull Doji Mariko out of it.

Taking the overall position of "there is a line of Lion after this one, you will not survive them all, and I was trying to save you with my Scorpion Scheming" is an interesting route overall and not a bad one. I'm not sure how to fold it into *this* meeting, however. I sort of feel like it's the kind of thing to bring up at a later date, after we've agreed to let Kakita Sekawa tank the first fight.

Going to Ikoma Genji for the letter that went to the sensei is inspired - not for a copy, but for the original, so that we can compare handwriting. We should absolutely try to do that thing. Admittedly, getting Ikoma Genji to cough up the one letter and then getting Doji Mariko to let us see *her* letter - these are not going to be trivial tasks. Still, I think they'll be doable, and it'll be absolutely worthwhile if we can pull it off.
 
Doji was given an absolutely vile insult, but she also gave one. Hers was just couched in the subtelty of the Crane. She brought no gift. Let me quote that from the gift giving scene:
Maugan Ra said:
Finally, the Crane are called up... and bring with them nothing at all. There is considerable tension in the hall as Doji Mariko presses her forehead to the ground before the Matsu and offers her sincere apologies for the lack of a gift. Apparently the Crane lands are currently in too poor a state to offer anything worthy of being presented to the honourable Matsu family, and they did not wish to offer insult by bringing something substandard. Mariko even mentions a few places that the Crane lands that she would normally search for such a gift, each of which is unfortunately still badly damaged from the war... and, if you remember correctly, in such a state because of particularly vicious Lion attacks.

You half suspect that you could cut the air with your blade if you were to draw it now, such is the tension. Doji Mariko's excuse seems perfectly honest and sincere, and it is well known that the Crane lands were indeed rather badly damaged, but it would not exactly be difficult to interpret the Crane's actions as a rather severe insult. Eventually, though, Matsu Ketsui accepts the excuse with a sharp nod, and the Crane return to their seats.
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So it is easy to argue that the insult she was given was merly in response to the one she gave. She hid hers, so the Matsu could not call her on it, so they did what Lion Berserkers do. They waited for their own chance, then fired back a direct and blunt insult. One that would result in a duel to the death. That is your first concern. Put that way, the insult is the responsobility of the plot maker, not the Lion who fell for the plot, as they can hardy blame the Lion for falling for it, when the Crane fell for it as well.

Second: Getting permission from Bayushi Kimoko could take a day. Or it could drag on. If it is not in her intrest to give it-like say if we convince her to delay it as a tactic, then it could take several days. After all, she was badly wounded during the tournament. I am sure we could spin the whole thing, and spend several days in a courtly rigamarole before the duel is official blessed, if she was inclined to help us delay it.

Note that in my plan, wheather he agrees to a delay or not, he will be tanking the first fight. The only question is will he first give us a chance to get all our ducks in a row. And it is only folded into this meeting if he is being unreasonable.

I think that adresses the concerns, and if we convince Doji we are on the trail of a possible plot, getting her to cough up her letter gets a lot easier. Espetially if we can at that time show her the letter Genji gives us. That would make a strong argument.
 
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primemountain said:
So it is easy to argue that the insult she was given was merly in response to the one she gave. She hid hers, so the Matsu could not call her on it, so they did what Lion Berserkers do. They waited for their own chance, then fired back a direct and blunt insult. One that would result in a duel to the death. That is your first concern. Put that way, the insult is the responsobility of the plot maker, not the Lion who fell for the plot, as they can hardy blame the Lion for falling for it, when the Crane fell for it as well.
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Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. In this particular case, it doesn't matter what we think OOC. It doesn't matter what Soshi Naoto thinks OOC. It matters what the Crane will think and what the court will think. For that, the straight-up fact is that Matsu Heijiko offered Doji Mariko a terrible insult. Doji Mariko offered a challenge, and Matsu Heijiko accepted. There are only a few ways out of this.
- Matsu Heijiko could apologize, deeply and profoundly, losing a *great* deal of Honor and Glory (or flee, losing more).
- Doji Mariko could somehow back out, likewise losing a large amount of Honor and Glory.
- Matsu Ketsui coudl refuse the duel, causing Matsu Heijiko a fair amount of dishonor, and possibly taking a hit herself (depending on how it was spun). This might also generate an insult that would have to be dealt with).
- There could be some profound outside intervention, like one of the two dying before the duel, or beign able to demonstrate clearly that Matsu Heijiko was being puppeted by a creature of the Shadowlands at the time.
- The duel could happen, at the end of which one of them would be dead (as would their champion, if any)

Even if it were possible to convince people that this was all a misunderstanding and/or external plot, that doesn't matter. The insult was given. The insult must be answered for. Matsu Heijiko really was horribly rude.

primemountain said:
Second: Getting permission from Bayushi Kimoko could take a day. Or it could drag on. If it is not in her intrest to give it-like say if we convince her to delay it as a tactic, then it could take several days. After all, she was badly wounded during the tournament. I am sure we could spin the whole thing, and spend several days in a courtly rigamarole before the duel is official blessed, if she was inclined to help us delay it.
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Sure, but I don't think the implications of that are as you think they are. First, it would be out of character for Bayushi Kimiko to act in that way. She's presented herself as painfully straightforward, and terrifyingly bloodthirsty. It's the mask she presents, and it works for her. She's not going to want to compromise that here. The character she is playing would respond quickly. Indeed, there's a decent chance she's responded *already*. It's been a few hours. Second, I don't think that her blessing or lack thereof actually delays the duel. After all, if we don't get her permission, there's always the Kakita, right? Why would anything be waiting on her?

primemountain said:
I think that adresses the concerns, and if we convince Doji we are on the trail of a possible plot, getting her to cough up her letter gets a lot easier. Espetially if we can at that time show her the letter Genji gives us. That would make a strong argument.
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Worth noting that it is... costly to admit to Doji Mariko that we have anything to do with Ikoma Genji. I think we can manage it without that (waving hands and saying "Scorpion") but there's actual risk here.

primemountain said:
@Sirrocco I am open to suggestions to polish my plan, if you have any?
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I don't, really. The problem is that I don't see how it can offer any real way out of the current duel (with the Matsu). Given that, it doesn't really offer an answer to Kakita Sekawa's implied "What the hell were you thinking?" question. Given that, I don't really see how to fit it into the current conversation in any way that would help us. I think it's an important and valuable thing for the medium term, but for right here, I don't see how to use it.
 
Sirrocco said:
So, just to verify, you think that the risk of winning an iajutsu duel to first blood against a Kakita is higher than the risk that, after being stabbed until we cannot stand by said Kakita, we might die out here?
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..Didn't think this through properly, did I? Gah. Still think second or third blood would be preferable, though.
[X] Sirocco
 
Sirrocco said:
- Matsu Heijiko could apologize, deeply and profoundly, losing a *great* deal of Honor and Glory (or flee, losing more).
- The duel could happen, at the end of which one of them would be dead (as would their champion, if any)
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I do not think Naoto needs to go OOC to understand that the insult is in retaliation for the Crane trearment of their Lord. You might be right, but as a Scorpion, while he does not know so, he certanlly suspects the posibility.
What I am going for is either the apology+probably banishment, or the duel being held, as it is unlikely we can stop the first one. What we can do is shape it. There is a difference between a duel where Kakita murderises her, while braging on his superiority, and one where he does it, more in sorrow then in anger.
Sirrocco said:
Even if it were possible to convince people that this was all a misunderstanding and/or external plot, that doesn't matter. The insult was given. The insult must be answered for. Matsu Heijiko really was horribly rude.
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I understand and accept that. Thus the outcomes expected above.
Sirrocco said:
Sure, but I don't think the implications of that are as you think they are. First, it would be out of character for Bayushi Kimiko to act in that way. She's presented herself as painfully straightforward, and terrifyingly bloodthirsty. It's the mask she presents, and it works for her. She's not going to want to compromise that here. The character she is playing would respond quickly. Indeed, there's a decent chance she's responded *already*. It's been a few hours. Second, I don't think that her blessing or lack thereof actually delays the duel. After all, if we don't get her permission, there's always the Kakita, right? Why would anything be waiting on her?
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Sure she is bloodthirsty and direct, but she also took a mortal wound. She could relapse. She could have gone out and celebrated and aggravated her condition. Etc,Etc. Asuming she has not allready granted her blessing there are ways to delay. And going with the Kakita around us is terribly rude and a nasty insult to the Scorpion. What difference does a few days make? I mean, I supposed we could ask Doji and Kakita to delay as well. If they feel up to it.
Sirrocco said:
Worth noting that it is... costly to admit to Doji Mariko that we have anything to do with Ikoma Genji. I think we can manage it without that (waving hands and saying "Scorpion") but there's actual risk here.
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Which is why we do not. We do not say we are acting on behaf of the Lion. We say we are acting on behest of the Emperor. And let them assume that either we are working in the capacity of the Emprors underhand, or that Otomo Kairyu, the man we saved entrusted us with this task. We risk far less if we simply never tell her this was brought to our attantion by a Lion.

Sirrocco said:
I don't, really. The problem is that I don't see how it can offer any real way out of the current duel (with the Matsu). Given that, it doesn't really offer an answer to Kakita Sekawa's implied "What the hell were you thinking?" question. Given that, I don't really see how to fit it into the current conversation in any way that would help us. I think it's an important and valuable thing for the medium term, but for right here, I don't see how to use it.
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Out goal is not to stop the duel.That is unrealistic. It is to delay it. To buy time for our investigation. So that the plot is slowed down and the cascade of duels that ends in their deaths is delayed. We are buying time to fix the underlying issues, not giving a magical solution.
 
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