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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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[] Ignore the pain and make no reference to your injury, but head straight to your quarters Do not make any particular effort to hide the injury, however - go to your quarters through the common, efficient routes rather than trying to sneak around, and so forth. If Yogo Hanzo is not immediately available, then seek outside medical attention, explaining only that you and Kakita Sekawa had a difference of opinion.

[] We give a truthful report of the events of the day, making note of both a possible sabotaging the cranes position via change in their instructions (though Mariko has yet to consider this possibility and is more than likely unwilling to), Her yojimbo's overprotection to the point of disobeying orders, giving the scorpion and opening if they figure out how to exploit it in future. We acknowledge that we perhaps acted hastily - having seen the opportunity, we grabbed for it in spite of the excellent reasons not to. Indeed, as Kakita Sekawa brought to our attention, if it had come to a duel, Matsu Heijiko likely would have killed us. We note that it would probably serve both her position and ours well now for her to be publicly seen to be annoyed with us - allowing us to continue to carry the wound (having Yogo Hanzo heal it only enough to prevent long-term damage), putting us through a punishing regimen of training, and so forth. It would certainly work to reduce our prominence in court. Add the spectacle of the upcoming duel between Matsu and Kakita and we should be back in the background where we belong. Also, perhaps it will help us to remember to be more judicious in the future.

[] We acknowledge to the court that the Kakita took issue with our standing as champion for a member of his delegation and challenged us to a duel for the honor of representing her. We note our injury and his clear lack of same, and acknowledge that he won that duel - and that, in turn, we yield the honor to him. Alternately/Additionally, if she so chooses, Bayushi Kimiko might reasonably declare that she is unwilling to allow one of her samurai to risk his life on behalf of a... Crane.

(Note: much of this was cribbed from the entry that @Dovahsith put in)

@Maugan Ra - Etiquette check: My read on things is that this should all be seen as more or less honorable behavior (if, perhaps, not so very *impressive*, what with the losing and everything). Is that accurate?

We *could* lie to our superior, but why? We could fabricate things in front of the courts, but why? The truth is not so damaging to our position, and it leaves fewer ways to be caught later. Bayushi Kimiko is going to be pissed at us, but standing up and inviting her to make us suffer on the training field is the sort of thing that should help her forgive us for it pretty readily. Likewise, our bizarre reputation in the court for honorable behavior is valuable. However, our role as representative to the Scorpion is important enough that our personal Glory is not. Taking a few hits there might be good for us for right now.

edited: because we don't know exactly when our shugenja is getting home, and we might not wish to wait that long for medical attention.

edited: because primemountain is right.

edited: vote change to primemountain's combo-vote (later post).
 
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Response to Lion:
[X] Ignore the pain and make no reference to your injury, but head straight to your quarters.Do not make any particular effort to hide the injury, however - go to your quarters through the common, efficient routes rather than trying to sneak around, and so forth.
-[X] If pressed, simply say that it was the settling of a matter of honor, and as the matter was concluded, you see no reason to speak of it further. You are confident the news will spread soon enough.

Bayushi Kimoko

[X] Conway the gist of the events truthfully. Place special care in retelling the challenge and especially the talk afterwards. Note that it seemed a perfect opportunity to break the Cranes composure, and get closer to her. It did work, as she did reveal details. Note your suspicion that the letter may have been tampered with, and the idea of asking Genji for the letter recieved by the master. Seek advice in any other path that might be taken to prove or disprove its validity or further orders on the matter of securing our embassy.

-[X]Note the favor Kakita did us by defeating us, namely making us seem less competent, and thus less of a target. He also took on the duel as well as giving us his orders, as he was kind enough to repeat them in our hearing as well as show his willingness to break or ignore orders from Doji-sama if needed. This could be valuable intelligence, and the price paid is but a bit of pain. Ask if she might have any ideas how this might be further used to our advantage.

The court
[X] Present to the court that you asked to champion the duel as the tenets of Courtesy in Bushido and Honor demanded it. However, as is his Duty, Kakita-san sought to test our mettle as champion and we dueled in the moonlight. As he found us wanting, the only honorable choice was to step down as champion and let the better man take up the blade.

***
Hey Sirrocco,
Maugan Ra said:
There is a brief window of opportunity here, one momentary chance to make serious progress in your relationship with the Crane and thereby fulfil your objectives. It is one that you do not think you can afford to miss, and while you regret that the timing makes it impossible to consult with Bayushi Kimoko, you seize the opportunity with both hands.
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how in the hell do you read that as us being emotinal? Not planned all the way through maybe, but we did not jump into this because we were emotinal, we jumped in because we saw a golden opportinty to advance our goals.

EDIT: Wish we had medicine 1 at this point. We could at least apply basic bandages. And with both of us wounded, i think our Yogo friend is going to be low on juice for a while. How are people feeling on the whole Medicine 1 issue now that we are the ones bleeding?
 
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primemountain said:
how in the hell do you read that as us being emotinal? Not planned all the way through maybe, but we did not jump into this because we were emotinal, we jumped in because we saw a golden opportinty to advance our goals.
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That... is an excellent point. Admittedly, that was more a matter of IC/OOC bleedthrough. I've been feeling for some time that when I wrote the vote that resulted in the duel, *I* was letting my emotions overcome me. However, as you say, that's not actually what happened IC. I'll adjust my vote accordingly.
 
primemountain said:
-[X]Note the favor Kakita did us by defeating us, namely making us seem less competent, and thus less of a target.
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...this makes a very good point, actually. This can actually make us seem a lot less perfect than we've been managing to make ourselves seem, meaning we're suddenly a lot less dangerous-seeming, and give us a very good excuse for keeping our head down for a while without breaking character.

Thats sorta what I meant by making it seem like this was our plan all along, at least to Kimoko-sama.
 
@primemountain - could you go back in and check my wording this time? I think it's improved, but I'm not entirely happy with it

Also, it looks to me like the only real points of disagreement between my plan, dovahsith's plan and primemountain's plan are how we act toward's Kakita Sekawa. Dovasith has us trying to make him look bad, mine is trying to be pretty neutral, and primemountain's is describing him as "the better man". Aside from that one point, it looks like you could fuse them all pretty readily (though I personally wouldn't want to put in the work to do that)
 
For everyone reading at home, this:
Sirrocco said:
That... is an excellent point.
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That is what it means to have loyal opposition. And I love it.

GilliamYaeger said:
Thats sorta what I meant by making it seem like this was our plan all along, at least to Kimoko-sama.
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We could, but the nice thing is we do not need to. We can tell the truth. An opportunity presented itself, we weighted the risks and jumped on it, and our gamble turned out for the best. It was not a perfect masterplan but it was some pretty nice improvisation. We are Scorpion, we are expected to act on our own initiative. We are damn near the only Great Clan with the tradition for it. :)

Hell, with Kakita slapping us down, we can even burn down some of the heat we were drawing down on us. Win-Win-Win. :)
 
primemountain said:
For everyone reading at home, this:

That is what it means to have loyal opposition. And I love it.


We could, but the nice thing is we do not need to. We can tell the truth. An opportunity presented itself, we weighted the risks and jumped on it, and our gamble turned out for the best. It was not a perfect masterplan but it was some pretty nice improvisation. We are Scorpion, we are expected to act on our own initiative. We are damn near the only Great Clan with the tradition for it. :)

Hell, with Kakita slapping us down, we can even burn down some of the heat we were drawing down on us. Win-Win-Win. :)
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Yeah, exactly. Ultimately, even though we supposedly came out of this humiliated to some degree, this is probably really good for us long-term.

Though I'm just damn glad we got out of that fight without losing too much face.
 
I'll give the fusion a try.

Response to Lion:
[X] Ignore the pain and make no reference to your injury, but head straight to your quarters.Do not make any particular effort to hide the injury, however - go to your quarters through the common, efficient routes rather than trying to sneak around, and so forth.
-[X] If pressed, simply say that it was the settling of a matter of honor, and as the matter was concluded, you see no reason to speak of it further tonight. You are confident the news will spread soon enough.
-[X] If Yogo Hanzo is not immediately available, then seek outside medical attention, explaining only that you resolved a matter of honor and that further details will be presented before the Court tomorow.

Bayushi Kimoko
[X] Convey the gist of the events truthfully. Place special care in retelling the challenge and especially the talk afterwards. Note that it seemed a perfect opportunity to break the Cranes composure, and get closer to her. It did work, as she did reveal details. Note your suspicion that the letter may have been tampered with, and the idea of asking Genji for the letter recieved by the master. Seek advice in any other path that might be taken to prove or disprove its validity or further orders on the matter of securing our embassy.

-[X]Note the favor Kakita did us by defeating us, namely making us seem less competent, and thus less of a target. He also took on the duel against Matsu Heijiko that likely would have killed us, as well as giving us his orders, as he was kind enough to repeat them in our hearing as well as show his willingness to break or ignore orders from Doji-sama if needed. This could be valuable intelligence, and the price paid is but a bit of pain.

-[X]Admit that had Kakita-san not stepped in it could have been much worse. We did not actually have a plan for dealing with Matsu Heijiko in the moment when we took on the duel. For risking our life without her permission we apologize.


-[X]Suggest that it would probably serve both her position and ours well now for her to be publicly seen to be annoyed with us - allowing us to continue to carry the wound (having Yogo Hanzo heal it only enough to prevent long-term damage), putting us through a punishing regimen of training, and so forth. It would certainly work to reduce our prominence in court. Add the spectacle of the upcoming duel between Matsu and Kakita and we should be back in the background where we belong.

The court
[X] Present to the court that you asked to champion the duel as the tenets of Courtesy in Bushido and Honor demanded it. However, Kakita-san sought to test our mettle as champion and we dueled in the moonlight. Regretfully, that was a duel we lost, so the only honorable choice is to step down as champion.
*****

You can tell which bits of your solution I liked, because I shamelessly canabalized them. Thus, my take on what a fusion between our ideas would look like. I think the favorable response to the duel Kakita in combination as framing our stepping in for Doji-sama based on Bushido fits our image as the honorable Scorpion. And that should work well in a Lion court. If he is a better duelist, then bluntly state it, like a Matsu would.

EDITED: Because Sirrocco has a point. It was a bit over the top on honor this and honor that regarding Kakita.
 
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@Sirrocco Frankly I really liked your idea of putting us through a punishing regiment. Whatever else happened, we lost a duel. And for a Bushi, that is not acceptable. We need to Train.
 
[x] primemountain

I am amused by the way we've racked up all this honour by cultivating the heimin because they're useful, behaving appropriately in public because it's in public at court and not having much to lie about yet. If our current honour levels are already nearing the point that our clan leadership might worry about our reliability just from establishing ourself as a junior diplomat, how do all the Scorpions not on active ninja jobs manage? Is there a special moustache twirling ceremony to shed the excess?
 
So this is how you turn a defeat to your advantage huh? Fascinating.

I like the current vote. It basically covers everything. There was a concern over showing in an open place, in which at least a Lion would take this is their failure for not being able to provide an environment in which the other delegations can feel safe... But even that is easily covered with a clarification of what really happened.

[x] Primemountain
 
So then! Because I am a madman with an obsessive love of samurai drama, I have decided to also run a more conventional game of L5R on these boards, rather than a quest.

If anyone is interested in that sort of thing, head on over to The Topaz Championship and register your interest. Same sort of timeline as this quest, albeit a few years further down the road, and you get to play young samurai who have earned the right to take their graduation exams under the eyes of the Emperor himself.

As if they weren't stressful enough already...
 
So, on the primary point of disagreement. Way I see it is this.

- Being obnoxious to him antagonizes the man without real gain. It sounds at least somewhat like being a sore loser, it antagonizes him, and it loses credit with Doji Mariko. People who like the idea of throwing a Take That or two at Kakita Sekawa might appreciate it, but I don't see that it gains us a whole lot, really.

- Being complementary to him might earn a bit of favor from him and/or Doji Mariko, but I don't see it earning much, and most of what it woudl earn would be in the form of increased public Crane alignment. I don't think that's actually to our benefit, especially when the Matsu have such a raging hate-on for them. Also, acknowledging him as a better duelist is *fine*. That's expected. He's Kakita. Acknowledging him as the better man is really kind of toadying. Likewise, saying that we stepped down because he found us wanting suggests that we act at the pleasure of the Kakita, which is kind of insulting to both ourselves and our clan... and the Crane know that that was not what happened, so we won't really even get all that many points there. Also, hammering on the "this was totally honorable, and the Honorable Kakita-sama was also totally honorable"... it feels a bit over the top to me.

Eh? That sounds like time for an etiquette check, actually. @Maugan Ra, can you suggest what the Court would think of @primemountain's write-in for "Court"?

- Retaining the On, however, and simply presenting things as they happened without rendering judgement one way or the other allows people to take their own lessons from it. Those who would wish us to be opposed to the Crane will see the Enormous Gaping Wound, and see some friction between us and the Crane delegation. Kakita Sekawa will see us acknowledging his superior sword skills, and the situational importance thereof (which we are - no shame in being beaten by a Kakita) and be satisfied. Doji Mariko will see us stepping aside quietly without causing any additional problems and be satisfied. (We are Scorpion. In other situations, in other courts, our family could *totally* have used this as a way to dishonor either or both of them.) Everyone will see us acting as is appropriate for Court by deliberately understating things and not revealing our own emotions and think of this as normal and honorable behavior.

beyond that... @primemountain, I like your fusion write-in. I *do* think, though, that we should openly acknowledge some fault. In particular, while the gamble paid off, it was very nearly quite problematic - and would have been, had Kakita Sekawa not saved us. Having to be saved by a Crane is a bit shameful from the perspective of a Scorpion. Basically, *she'll* see that we overreached, and if we acknowledge it up front and apologize for it, she'll be happier about it than if we do not. It doesnt' have to be to the degree I put in, but a mildly worded sentence to at least acknowledge the issue seems like it would be appropriate.

If you're willing to address those issues, I'll happily vote for your version.
 
@Sirrocco: Ok, I've fixed it up a bit. The Kakita bit was a bit much on the honor stuff, and admitting we had no business risking our lives without our Lords permission and apologizing for it seems sensible.

@Maugan Ra can I get a Etiquette check, on what the proper way to apologize to our Lord for this transgression is?
I do not think I know enough about Rokugany Etiquette to properly grovel.
 
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