In Nuclear Fire
- Thread starter Poliamida
- Start date
Fluffy_serpent
a snake pretending to be human
I don't think that association will last long since from what I remember they continued to work with them for public opinion and resources (with everyone knowing that max is kaiser making it impossible for Taylor to make a mistake again). but it seems that max is planning to blackmail them and that is something that I think will overcome the balance of advantage / disadvantage that working with medhall brought and something that most heavygear members will not tolerate
Garreon
Paldean Top Champion
- Location
- Mesagoza, Paldea
Your head on a pike....he is fucking screwed. They can dangle the fact he faked his own death and if he doesnt dance, all his followers will know and they will think he simply wanted to leave them to the wolves.
You see Max, having money is useful and everyone has a price, yes. It just so happens that sometimes the price is not monetary....you are going to either be under a new yoke or get fucked in the ass so hard even Skidmark will ask for tips
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Stop: So, let's talk a bit.
so, let's talk a bit.
SV staff takes accusations of racism against a user extremely seriously. So when there are accusations of a user expressing their views in the content they post on the site we are going to make sure that the content is properly reviewed and act on any evidence that we find that points towards the accusations being true.
This recent chapter, while distasteful due to the subject matter, does not rise to that level of action that necessitates us acting in this way. However, when there is a user that goes on a crusade in a thread in a misguided attempt to accuse the OP of racism and attempt to implicate the author in any way that suggests that the content reflects their own world views, to the point where they start an argument with other users and causes a massive derail in the thread...well, that's when we feel that things are being taken way too far.
With that in mind, the user in question has been booted from the thread permanently. In addition, when there is a moderator post that encourages users to drop a topic and move on it's best to move on from the subject and let us handle things. There's no reason to get in trouble for continuing a conversation that's already ended.
That's...pretty much it. Please continue discussing the fic, keep in mind that a fiction's content does not equate to a user's views, and just overall vibe and stuff.
SV staff takes accusations of racism against a user extremely seriously. So when there are accusations of a user expressing their views in the content they post on the site we are going to make sure that the content is properly reviewed and act on any evidence that we find that points towards the accusations being true.
This recent chapter, while distasteful due to the subject matter, does not rise to that level of action that necessitates us acting in this way. However, when there is a user that goes on a crusade in a thread in a misguided attempt to accuse the OP of racism and attempt to implicate the author in any way that suggests that the content reflects their own world views, to the point where they start an argument with other users and causes a massive derail in the thread...well, that's when we feel that things are being taken way too far.
With that in mind, the user in question has been booted from the thread permanently. In addition, when there is a moderator post that encourages users to drop a topic and move on it's best to move on from the subject and let us handle things. There's no reason to get in trouble for continuing a conversation that's already ended.
That's...pretty much it. Please continue discussing the fic, keep in mind that a fiction's content does not equate to a user's views, and just overall vibe and stuff.
NotInventedHere
MSV, Desert Class
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You just reminded me of the very best scene in Babylon 5 (and that's a high bar), so I figured I'd share it for everyone.
- Pronouns
- Masculine
No life, my friend. No life. Heh.
Still, I am really liking this version of Max. But damn if he isn't a villain I love to hate.
The biggest issue with Max is that he is a megalomaniac and control freak. One who uses the nazism ideology for power and control in a way his father and sister would never do. He took the lessons his father taught them and stood them on their head just because he wants Power and Control. Nothing else. It also makes him incredibly difficult to write as a villain. With the push to cause drama buttons all over the place, Max is someone destined to be run over in stories because he is someone who deserves it. Turning him to a villain on a level of Coil is enough to cause serious drama.
And, to be fair, he deserves it. Monsters like his entire empire don't deserve to walk under the living sky.
Max though could be used so much better in worm stories, its just so fucking hard to do without causing the kind of shitstorm that causes mod involvement.
So in stories where he is summarily executed, its deliciously satisfying, if a waste of a perfectly good villain.
Really enjoying the way Poliamida took this. Its fresh and delicious. And going to make Max's downfall all the more satisfying.
Racism is a special kind of evil. One that exists for no reason other then Evil itself. Because it is always and forever a tool by the powerful to gain control of the ignorant. And seeing it destroyed is especially cathartic. Look at Red Skull, one of the longest standing Nazi villains in the history of fiction. He and Max have a lot on common, both power mad control freaks who use nazism and racism as a whole to control the ignorant masses.
I look forward to seeing where this goes. Because Peter is going to kick his dream of divorcing himself from his own role in his own empire into the garbage. And its going to be delicious to watch.
- Pronouns
- They/Their/Them
I, for one, love the multitude of slightly different ways E88 characters are represented in their unsettling viewpoints in fanfiction. Canon often handwaves each character's specific biases into neat little boxes - and going outside of the box is what fanfiction is aboud.
It's one of the most major AU aspects of any fic, usually tiptoed around or done so hammy as to be laughable.
Both manners detract from the subject matter entirely. It's a weak author's way of avoiding the subject or attempting to avoid offending any sort of reader sensibility.
Hell, Worm itself handles the situation poorly by largely ignoring philosophy entirely being 'racist nazis' - it doesn't really delve into why characters think the way they do, it simply presents chracters and expects the reader to accept them as they are.
As distasteful as it may be to read through the thought processes of a modernly distasteful person, I think it's great that the author here didn't pull any punches in digging fingers into one of the many, many ways people self-justify their inherent biases. It takes a good author to present a side character (and that's what Max is, a side character) with such an antithetical viewpoint and make it not just believable, but grossly understandable.
And that scares casual, kneejerk readers who only come for fancy exposition and fun plot - this fic is at its core something of a crack fic with its premise and I'm not surprised that reception has been.... varied.
But I think the author did well.
It's one of the most major AU aspects of any fic, usually tiptoed around or done so hammy as to be laughable.
Both manners detract from the subject matter entirely. It's a weak author's way of avoiding the subject or attempting to avoid offending any sort of reader sensibility.
Hell, Worm itself handles the situation poorly by largely ignoring philosophy entirely being 'racist nazis' - it doesn't really delve into why characters think the way they do, it simply presents chracters and expects the reader to accept them as they are.
As distasteful as it may be to read through the thought processes of a modernly distasteful person, I think it's great that the author here didn't pull any punches in digging fingers into one of the many, many ways people self-justify their inherent biases. It takes a good author to present a side character (and that's what Max is, a side character) with such an antithetical viewpoint and make it not just believable, but grossly understandable.
And that scares casual, kneejerk readers who only come for fancy exposition and fun plot - this fic is at its core something of a crack fic with its premise and I'm not surprised that reception has been.... varied.
But I think the author did well.
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Poliamida
(Verified Heavy Molecule)
- Location
- Beyond the Stars
So, I go out to do gardening and this happens. I won't reply to that conversation because mods already got involved.
Now, to business:
With Kaiser I tried to write him as someone who could not only exist, but who thinks just like a lot of people that we all may know. The moment he realizes that villainy is no longer profitable or safe, he jumps boat and goes join the heroes, not because any moral conundrum but simply because he realizes that their side is the one most likely to win.
But he is absolutely a bastard. Let's all remember that in this chapter he casually tries to torture his son hoping that he'd trigger. In reality Theo is more likely to trigger when he realises that Max is very much still alive.
I'll argue that we don't really have much of a canon portrayal of Kaiser. We have some brief interactions with the Undersiders, a couple lines from TT, and then Purity's interlude where he plays her like a fiddle. Then he dies, that's it. We know that he doesn't believe in Nazi ideology, but being a Nazi involves a series of political and spiritual beliefs that he doesn't share. He isn't fighting for any grand white country or anything like that, if only because he can't bring himself to care about anyone but himself. That doesn't mean that he can't be a racist or a clasist, which he very much is. At least in this fic.
And for those thinking that he has nothing to offer the team, they are wrong. The team has been trying to kickstart their project to revitalize the Bay for a while now but they have been facing multiple obstacles, one of the biggest ones being that few people trust them and even fewer of them are willing to make a partnership with them. Now Max comes and offers them all what they need to improve things for everyone, especially the minorities that they are protecting. And with the Empire effectively over and with Max not diverting that money into criminal enterprises they will be very tempted to say yes. After all, it will be for the greater good and all it will cost them will be letting this absolute asshole walk away scot-free. Then Peter will realize that he's considering pulling a Cauldron and will kick himself in the head.
That little bit of information is actually canon. In Numberman's interlude we find out that Cauldron had to intervene to stop the Wafflecrafters (I'm sorry but looking up the correct way to spell their name every time is a pain) from throwing a nuke.
Now, to business:
Thanks, I always saw Kaiser as wasted potential. Despite Worm claiming to be a 'realistic' setting, Coil comes as too cartoonish. He's all 'mwahahaha' I have an underground base, multiple timelines, I can predict the future and will soon have both the heroes and villains of the city under my control, what will you do now?
With Kaiser I tried to write him as someone who could not only exist, but who thinks just like a lot of people that we all may know. The moment he realizes that villainy is no longer profitable or safe, he jumps boat and goes join the heroes, not because any moral conundrum but simply because he realizes that their side is the one most likely to win.
But he is absolutely a bastard. Let's all remember that in this chapter he casually tries to torture his son hoping that he'd trigger. In reality Theo is more likely to trigger when he realises that Max is very much still alive.
Even if he can, the result would probably be the implosion of North America. Remember how Purity started a massacre when she lost Aster? Like that but all across the country.
You're free to correct me on this one, but I think that the fate of Felur's murderer is one of those things that Wilbow retconed to hell and back. Going for the version where the Empire kills him for sweet PR was a conscious decision I made because I found it more interesting.
I'll argue that we don't really have much of a canon portrayal of Kaiser. We have some brief interactions with the Undersiders, a couple lines from TT, and then Purity's interlude where he plays her like a fiddle. Then he dies, that's it. We know that he doesn't believe in Nazi ideology, but being a Nazi involves a series of political and spiritual beliefs that he doesn't share. He isn't fighting for any grand white country or anything like that, if only because he can't bring himself to care about anyone but himself. That doesn't mean that he can't be a racist or a clasist, which he very much is. At least in this fic.
Correct. He wanted Krieg's death to be confusing so he then could throw enough miscommunication into the dialogue so when the PRT tried to tell people the truth people wouldn't believe them.
Thank you! As I said I'm not a fan of threats that you can just fix with 'punch it harder'.
And for those thinking that he has nothing to offer the team, they are wrong. The team has been trying to kickstart their project to revitalize the Bay for a while now but they have been facing multiple obstacles, one of the biggest ones being that few people trust them and even fewer of them are willing to make a partnership with them. Now Max comes and offers them all what they need to improve things for everyone, especially the minorities that they are protecting. And with the Empire effectively over and with Max not diverting that money into criminal enterprises they will be very tempted to say yes. After all, it will be for the greater good and all it will cost them will be letting this absolute asshole walk away scot-free. Then Peter will realize that he's considering pulling a Cauldron and will kick himself in the head.
Yeah, I'll edit that after I post this.
Maybe!
That little bit of information is actually canon. In Numberman's interlude we find out that Cauldron had to intervene to stop the Wafflecrafters (I'm sorry but looking up the correct way to spell their name every time is a pain) from throwing a nuke.
I understand the frustration but I'd argue that other characters not reacting to what the MC can do isn't good writing either. And in canon Chariot did create a personal teleporter, just with inspiration from trickster instead of Tech-Priest.
somnolentSlumber
(Verified Proofreader)
- Location
- hell
IIRC, wildbow originally planned for Kaiser to be a more prominent villain post-Leviathan. But he used dice rolls to determine who would die during the Endbringer battle and Kaiser rolled badly.
Kind of a pity, really. He would've been a really good villain in canon if he'd made it.
Poliamida
(Verified Heavy Molecule)
- Location
- Beyond the Stars
Oh, shit, sorry I missed your question. Outside those tree and Heavy Gear, the only other person who knows he's alive is Theo.
I have... strong opinions about dice rolling. I'll not share them here because if I remember correctly there's a rule against gratuitous depictions of violence.
I thought Scion got rid of all the nukes?
Lincolnator
canon and cannons both sink ships
I'm personally a fan of Addy's (one of the other tof SIs) interpretation of their name.
She changes Gesselschaft to Guzzleshaft and proceeds to taunt them about their obviously repressed homosexuality to their faces. Then proceeds to beat the shit out of them
- Pronouns
- Masculine
Depends on who you ask. Canon is full of unreliable narration and fanon is equally as unreliable as different sources.
But no, I think that is something that is decided per author. Because Wildbow certainly can't be trusted to WoG anything anymore.
- Location
- botswana
For all of his master planning he made the one mistake manipulative people make,the one that got Alexandria killed...he assumed he understood who he was fucking with!... heavy gear is full of spiteful teenagers whose default reaction is to always escalate
Poliamida
(Verified Heavy Molecule)
- Location
- Beyond the Stars
According to a WoG, he didn't, he only destroyed all test missiles that USA and Russia kept throwing and their facilities, that was what let to the nuclear de-escalation. There are still many nuclear bombs and nuclear material out there.
- Pronouns
- Male
I would very much like a link to that particular story if at all possible my good person.
Ridli Scott
(Verified acid sweater mutant)
- Location
- The Periphery
Also why the insects destroyed the cell door? They don't need to do that.
this is going to be a nasty affair for the PRT CSIs... if they use that maybe they are that stupid that they would use a thinker or tinker with a tricorder instead. Because, why make things properly when you could use a cape?
Ok, that's a little cruel for the poor boy but sadly true.
Well, maybe HG could poach him after they manage to get rid of Max (I'm not necessarily speaking about killing or capturing him only being free of him). I wonder if his powers would be different since the trigger will be different. it's supposed that his mower should be related to his father powers but depending of the trigger some things could change. Taylor's powers get wired to insects because she was surrounded by them in the locker. Or, at least, this is how I interpret that.
I want a refund! (Tinker of Fiction Semi-SI)
An SI Tinker of Fiction thread, because my muse refuses to let me do anything else and the world clearly needs more of them. Follow the misadventures and 'heroic' blunderings of Adeline Mathews as she navigates parhuman puberty in Brockton Bay. [Excitement. Amusement. Affection]
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
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Aishia don't be happy with that, and this is something Even more trublesome, Taylor here actualy is learning and adapting (off screen,why? I actualy like to read about this. Side story proyect?) And if Taylor learn from Max than she need to have political and economic power (actual brute forze they have and PR is on the way) then she will truly ve a nightmare in the future.
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Because they are absolutely desperate for a moral win, and feel the need to drag her good name through the mud in order to regain public opinion since they have been made to look absolutely incompetent.
remember, PRT and Protectorate ENE has been demonstrated to be thoroughly incompetent in the eyes of their superiors, and are THIS close 👌 to being disbanded.
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Ok, I've said this before, and I can't remember if it was here or not, but that scene is far greater art than most people realize. It's one of my all time favorite scenes.
That dirty look Morden has? He's not upset about being snubbed. Oh no. This is the kind of art you get when one man pre-plans an entire series.
First off, lets talk about the Shadows. Classic Deal With The Devil set up, their emissary walks around asking "What do you want?" and then people tell him, exactly what they said happens. But just like the deal with the devil, you got exactly what you asked for, and it wasn't remotely what you wanted. Londo's entire arc is this realization, but everybody who answers the question gets a bad end. President Clark deserves honorable mention for also not living through his request, and having it subverted so badly it did the opposite of what he wanted.
So lets examine what happens to Vir three seasons later, at the conclusion of the Shadow War.
Londo gets some revenge, kills Mr Morden's Minders, nukes the shit out of a reserve shadow fleet, and sends Vir out into the garden.... where we see Morden's head on a pike, and Vir does indeed give us a little wave.
Morden has that sour look because he knows since Vir answered the question, that's what he'll get. Morden's head on a pike in the garden.
But wait there's more!
What did Vir ask for? He didn't ask for Morden's head on a pike. His exact words (there's even a flashback) "I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head...."
It's a deal with the devil, you get exactly what you asked for.
The Vorlons are coming, with their planet killer, to wipe out that festering hub of Shadow influence that is Centauri Prime. The planet Vir is on.
He got exactly what he asked for, living just long enough to see Mordens head on a pike. Before the Vorlons blow his entire planet up. Malicious compliance is high art to the Shadows.
The only reason it didn't go off 100% to plan was because Sheridan was out flipping the game board over and the Vorlons had to call in everything to go deal with him.
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Poor Theo.
I honestly kind of expect Peter to come up with more ways to punch harder. Are you telling me the lessons anime taught me were a lie?
The biggest FU to Kaiser would be to force him to use his power in a public setting, or make it look like he used his power. I imagine the remaining E88 member would be absolutely bonkers furious that Kaiser abandoned the cause to work with Heavy Gear. A coward and race traitor. If Heavy Gear is careful to distance themselves from the Kaiser reveal, they could even put out a statement that they had no idea Medhal is run by Kaiser and they won't be working with Medhal anymore until an investigation is completed.
Lots of opportunities for stock market manipulation.