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Ignition (MTG/Multicross, Planeswalker PC)

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Yog said:
Most, if not all, MtG planes, from what I remember, are planet-sized at most. We are dealing with interstellar civilizations in several of the settings. I doubt we are in risk of becoming overpowered any time soon.
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It's not overpowered I am worried about. There are only so many problems that can't be solved with a little judicious planeswalking. By leaving the possibility of others who can do the same, later problems can be made more complicated. Not necessarily more difficult, though that is a possibility, but more complicated.
 
Paradox said:
It's not overpowered I am worried about. There are only so many problems that can't be solved with a little judicious planeswalking. By leaving the possibility of others who can do the same, later problems can be made more complicated. Not necessarily more difficult, though that is a possibility, but more complicated.
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No.
Just... no.
No Planeswalkers. At all. Ever.
We've already complicated shit by giving QB and Walpurgisnacht Black Mana. With more Planeswalkers, the Incubators will eventually have all mana colors, even if they fail to cross Planes. Adding more Planeswalkers will just turn this into a MtG version of DBZ. Or a Marvel scenario, in which the villains just KEEP FUCKING GETTING POWER-UPS no matter how strong the protagonist gets.
This reeks of the whole 'This villain has all of your powers and abilities. Nothing you have will ever be unique, because even if you kill him, the next 20 will have your powers as well. MUST SCALE ENEMIEEES' thing.



@Alivaril
Most people actually vote not to have other Planeswalkers at ALL. Only a small part of those people mentioned anything about MAYBE including them later on, if there is NOTHING left to do(which would be bullshit, considering the scale we're already working on).
 
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[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered


The argument that other planeswalkers won't have much to do with us is, in my opinion, countered by the statement that they come from our universe, and hell, the same source. Even if they do wander off in different directions, that unifying theme will draw people together eventually. I'd much rather run into walkers from other places than from our own home. We'll have enough problems with Earth if and when we choose to return.

It's also a bit weird to me that Kyubey manages to make a spark-detecting-and-igniting experiment. You can bet your ass the planeswalkers in MtG have tried to fuck around with the Spark, and I don't recall any mass-walker experiments ever being successful. Certainly, some of them learned to fuck around with the Spark, but never on a scale of trillions of subjects. Makes you wonder.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered


The argument that other planeswalkers won't have much to do with us is, in my opinion, countered by the statement that they come from our universe, and hell, the same source. Even if they do wander off in different directions, that unifying theme will draw people together eventually. I'd much rather run into walkers from other places than from our own home. We'll have enough problems with Earth if and when we choose to return.

It's also a bit weird to me that Kyubey manages to make a spark-detecting-and-igniting experiment. You can bet your ass the planeswalkers in MtG have tried to fuck around with the Spark, and I don't recall any mass-walker experiments ever being successful. Certainly, some of them learned to fuck around with the Spark, but never on a scale of trillions of subjects. Makes you wonder.
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There's no Spark detection going on. Kyubey is finding potential mages, regular spark-free humans who can use Mana. When our Spark ignited, it kicked Kyubey out.
 
Akasha said:
Adding more Planeswalkers will just turn this into a MtG version of DBZ. Or a Status Quo Is God scenario, in which the villains just KEEP FUCKING GETTING POWER-UPS no matter how strong the protagonist gets.
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Power doesn't have to be personal. Power can be organizations or artifacts etc. Let's imagine that an enemy planeswalker sets up a mutliplaner empire. They use resources from that empire to strike at us but we won't be able to directly strike back because the empire itself isn't in conflict with us. Or at least we probably wouldn't due to morals AKA not turning innocent people into ash.

We would then have to move between the planes targeting specific weak points that will damage our enemies powerbase rather than just slagging everything into the ground. We'd probably also have to work with different people on each of those planes to do so

Assuming that other walkers means they keep getting random powerups is insulting to Aliviaril as it assumes he can't figure out how to write without that happening.
 
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[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered

We have enough stuff to do for now.
 
tenchifew said:
[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered

We have enough stuff to do for now.
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Why are there so many people acting like this vote is for if Planeswalkers show up now? Alivaril clearly stated that he meant later on.
 
Phant0m5 said:
There's no Spark detection going on. Kyubey is finding potential mages, regular spark-free humans who can use Mana. When our Spark ignited, it kicked Kyubey out.
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Perhaps, but the GM said that the Incubators will apparently be capable of Igniting new Planeswalkers once QB's info reaches them. This implies that he gathered enough info about Sparks to do stuff like that in the first place.

Paradox said:
Power doesn't have to be personal. Power can be organizations or artifacts etc. Let's imagine that an enemy planeswalker sets up a mutliplaner empire. They use resources from that empire to strike at us but we won't be able to directly strike back because the empire itself isn't in conflict with us. Or at least we probably wouldn't due to morals AKA not turning innocent people into ash.

We would then have to move between the planes targeting specific weak points that will damage our enemies powerbase rather than just slagging everything into the ground. We'd probably also have to work with different people on each of those planes to do so

Assuming that other walkers means they keep getting random powerups is insulting to Aliviaril as it assumes he can't figure out how to write without that happening.
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For a Planeswalker to set up a multiplanar empire, they'd need centuries, if not thousands of years of work. Perhaps even dozens of thousands.

The problem here is not that no Planeswalker is ever allowed to appear at all, but that the Incubators will apparently start Igniting entire hundreds of them in PMMM setting, after a mere couple of decades, and we'll encounter those.

If any of them set up such an empire, by the time it becomes a threat to us, we'll be able to use our literal omnipotence to erase them from existence.

Also, I claim bullshit on QB being able to figure out enough that the Incubators will be able to find and Ignite Planeswalkers en-masse the moment they obtain the info, or even a bunch of decades later, when they had absolutely no prior experience with such a phenomenon.
 
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Akasha said:
Perhaps, but the GM said that the Incubators will apparently be capable of Igniting new Planeswalkers once QB's info reaches them. This implies that he gathered enough info about Sparks to do stuff like that in the first place.
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I think that it is more like the weight of numbers involved means that statistically they are eventual going to trip a spark by accident.
 
tenchifew said:
Eldrazi are around?!
Ok, this is Bad News.
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From early on in the quest.
Alivaril said:
The Eldrazi were just going to be general assholes and prevent access to other planes. For those of you who are from the PMMM side of things, the Eldrazi are basically reality-warping eldritch abominations that want to eat everything. Think of them as witches on steroids.
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The Fridge Horror Alivaril mentioned before was that the Eldrazi ate all of the other Planeswalkers.
 
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[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered

Basically have them be a rare thing that exists in the setting but rare enough we won't encounter them in story unless we run out of fun stuff to do and seek them out OOC via vote.
 
cyberswordsmen said:
[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered

Basically have them be a rare thing that exists in the setting but rare enough we won't encounter them in story unless we run out of fun stuff to do and seek them out OOC via vote.
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I agree with this. Instead of giving us a deadline like 'After X time the Incubators will produce Y Planeswalkers that you will encounter', just let us deal with the normal stuff, and if we somehow miraculously run out of fun things to do, give us a vote to find out if we want other Planeswalkers to pop out.
And by all things holy, if that happens, then at least make very few of them, and don't buff our normal opponents (if any remain) with them, like: "Those 5 Planeswalkers hate your guts because Reasons, and teamed up with the Incubators. Have fun!".

The main problem I have with the Planeswalkers is the possibility of them being used as cheap force multipliers for our standard enemies. If they were to appear, then at least have them be completely independent entities.
 
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[X] Don't have the possibility of other 'walkers turning up.
--[X] But have stories / rumours / myths of them be something that can be encountered
 
BTW, for people talking about statistical rarity, the problem with Planswalker Sparking statistics is that they count those who actually spark. That's why there are concentrations of them that seem to contradict statistics. The chance of having a spark is small, according to this it says "The planeswalker spark is more or less a one-in-a-million thing in sentient beings." For earth with it's population of 7.125 Billion that is Seven Thousand One Hundred Twenty-Five possible Planeswalkers. The majority though will live and then die without sparking. Now what happens when something starts to happen?

The MtG blocks are based around special occurrences. I think it is these occurrences that up the normally infinitesimal chance of sparking to something that produces multiple Planeswalker in a short frame of time. Therefore if the KyuCol starts randomly playing around with mana it is in fact highly likely that they would actually trigger a few. Far more statistically possible then them not doing so.
 
Akasha said:
I agree with this. Instead of giving us a deadline like 'After X time the Incubators will produce Y Planeswalkers that you will encounter', just let us deal with the normal stuff, and if we somehow miraculously run out of fun things to do, give us a vote to find out if we want other Planeswalkers to pop out.
And by all things holy, if that happens, then at least make very few of them, and don't buff our normal opponents (if any remain) with them, like: "Those 5 Planeswalkers hate your guts because Reasons, and teamed up with the Incubators. Have fun!".
The main problem I have with the Planeswalkers is the possibility of them being used as force multipliers for our standard enemies. If they were to appear, then at least have them be completely independent entities.
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A very MtG planeswalker plot might be something like "Those 4 planeswalkers hate the incubators' guts, but they're going to wreck your entire home universe just to get to them. Do you join them, ignore them, or work against them?" Lace that story with hints about the Eldrazi and the can of worms those 4 might be opening, conflict between their 4 colors and ours, threats of betrayal and witching, and give the opportunity for diplomacy, conflict, and varying degrees in between.

I'm saying it could work, although I see no reason for it for months to years of OOC time.
 
Mostly I don't want to deal with other 'walkers. Because then the quest has a very real chance of becoming all about the machinations of other 'walkers.

I feel like that kind of quest needs to be set up with the idea of 'dealing with other walkers' from the start, and not introduced part way in.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
A very MtG planeswalker plot might be something like "Those 4 planeswalkers hate the incubators' guts, but they're going to wreck your entire home universe just to get to them. Do you join them, ignore them, or work against them?" Lace that story with hints about the Eldrazi and the can of worms those 4 might be opening, conflict between their 4 colors and ours, threats of betrayal and witching, and give the opportunity for diplomacy, conflict, and varying degrees in between.

I'm saying it could work, although I see no reason for it for months to years of OOC time.
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Considering what Kyubey did to Jade and the fact that he might be planning on doing the same to other girls, there is actually a rather high chance of that happening.
 
LightMage said:
Mostly I don't want to deal with other 'walkers. Because then the quest has a very real chance of becoming all about the machinations of other 'walkers.

I feel like that kind of quest needs to be set up with the idea of 'dealing with other walkers' from the start, and not introduced part way in.
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Eh.. Less with "Machinations" and more like "Idiots going around breaking things that you have to fix." At least till they get a handle on things. It's not like they have helpful supercomputers to help them. They would be operating on their own.

Once we finally clean everything up it seems that one or two actually managed to not randomly breaking things and were able to build up a powerbase while we where cleaning up after the others. That's when the Machinations bit starts.

Edit: That actually is a fairly standard MtG theme really. Other than Bolas Schemes it seems quite a lot of their problems can be laid at the feat of 'Walkers who mess with things they don't understand and then other people have to fix things.
 
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Paradox said:
Eh.. Less with "Machinations" and more like "Idiots going around breaking things that you have to fix." At least till they get a handle on things. It's not like they have helpful supercomputers to help them. They would be operating on their own.

Once we finally clean everything up it seems that one or two actually managed to not randomly breaking things and were able to build up a powerbase while we where cleaning up after the others. That's when the Machinations bit starts.
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Sorry, my bad.

'Clean up after other walkers, because it's OUR job to screw things up'
Later followed by
'Deal with their plots as they get mad about you being their maid. Unless they like it, and then they plot against the ones plotting against you.'

Welp, there goes our vacation time. :V

TBF interesting idea, but I'd rather have this concept as a key part from the outset.
 
LightMage said:
Sorry, my bad.

'Clean up after other walkers, because it's OUR job to screw things up'
Later followed by
'Deal with their plots as they get mad about you being their maid. Unless they like it, and then they plot against the ones plotting against you.'

Welp, there goes our vacation time. :V

TBF interesting idea, but I'd rather have this concept as a key part from the outset.
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Well, if you recall, from the outset we weren't even supposed to be able to become Planeswalkers. That was a change made partway through.
 
Akasha said:
Perhaps, but the GM said that the Incubators will apparently be capable of Igniting new Planeswalkers once QB's info reaches them. This implies that he gathered enough info about Sparks to do stuff like that in the first place.
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Not... really? In this case, it just implies that we're dealing with that many victims test subjects. The Incubators are harvesting from 13,575,872,324 different planets in the Milky Way galaxy. It just so happens that the same method they're using for awakening mana also works for igniting the sparks of anyone they experiment on.

Akasha said:
The main problem I have with the Planeswalkers is the possibility of them being used as cheap force multipliers for our standard enemies. If they were to appear, then at least have them be completely independent entities.
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Have I ever done anything like that? :confused: Ofc they'd be independent. And share a near-universal hatred of Incubators.


LightMage said:
Mostly I don't want to deal with other 'walkers. Because then the quest has a very real chance of becoming all about the machinations of other 'walkers.

I feel like that kind of quest needs to be set up with the idea of 'dealing with other walkers' from the start, and not introduced part way in.
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. . . Okay, that wasn't my intent at all, but that actually sounds pretty fun. As a separate quest, that is. Not this one.
 
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Alivaril said:
Not... really? In this case, it just implies that we're dealing with that many victims test subjects. The Incubators are harvesting from 13,575,872,324 different planets in the Milky Way galaxy. It just so happens that the same method they're using for awakening mana also works for igniting the sparks of anyone they experiment on.


. . . Have I ever done anything like that? :confused: Ofc they'd be independent. And share a near-universal hatred of Incubators.
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Sounds like something that'd be amusing as a quick one-shot WHAT IF omake.

In which the Incubator's desire for unlimited energy to prolong the universe ironically lead to their demise. But also the universe lasting forever. :V


. . . Okay, that wasn't my intent at all, but that actually sounds pretty fun. As a separate quest, that is. Not this one.
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Yep.
 
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