Not sure what that meant exactly, but Taylor is more of a Tyrant. She saved a lot of people sure, but she did it by literally mind controlling a lot of people.
By that very definition she ain't a Saver.
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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]
- Thread starter James D. Fawkes
- Start date
- Crossover
By that very definition she ain't a Saver.
- Location
- Philippines
Indeed. If anything, she will fit the category of a Berserker or Avenger more as a Servant, as she was at her strongest as Khepri who had lost everything, even her sanity, in her singular goal of Killing Scion. A Saver is bigger than a savior - it only includes outright messianic archetypes, not Anti-Heroes.
avenger? i don't think so, she's not a very vengeful person. berserker tho she can fit, if only because she was litteraly breaking down mentally when she became khepri. but for a servant that'd probably manifest as like a side cost to using a noble phantasm or something. manifest khepri, be super powerful for a while, but have a time limit in her decaying mental state. cause like, a continuously decaying mentality is kinda hard to have as a berserker, they'd go unusable in like a day. realistically she'd fit assassin, foreigner, possibly rider and maybe caster. with other classes being debatable whether she fits them. but yeah, she probably wouldn't fit saver. although… she was kinda villified after gold morning due to everyone having a grudge against her for mind controlling them, so i can see her ending up like antonio salieri, becoming an avenger entirely because that's what people saw her as even if she has other classes she fits much better in.
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Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
And what about the cults that would form in the aftermath on the Earths that she popped through? Whatever mythology pops up from it, Scion was clearly a destroyer, and she lead the army fighting him. What do you think those worlds think of her? Hell while I haven't read Ward, there has to be cults dedicated to her on that planet, even if they weren't brought up in canon.
The idea that no-one has rationalized her existence as a Messiac being is kinda ridiculous.
The idea that no-one has rationalized her existence as a Messiac being is kinda ridiculous.
Why would those other worlds know anything about her personally? It's not like she went to them and gave a rousing speech, or they read an interdimensional newsletter that talked about how she saved everyone.
Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
And what does correct information have anything to do with the Throne of Heroes? *points to Robot Zeus*
People are irrational, and a Fucking Biblical Event swept through their planet.
Robot Zeus... is not a heroic spirit (unless it says he is in Olympus or something).
If all these other worlds have no idea that Taylor even existed, why would any cults formed in the wake of Scion count for her? If anything, they'd create an entirely new Heroic Spirit that embodies what they envision what a savior might have been for them.
to my knowledge, capes seem to have a silent agreement not to mention her, but it is known a major master took control of everyone and made them fight scion and eventually they won, they just don't know who, only the capes that saw her or knew her, knows that, and presumably whomever they've told. the average person wouldn't know who it was. granted that still would probably aid her legend, that was still her, even if no one knows it in history. i can see it adding a 'conflict/apocalypse resolution' spin to something she does or just to her, like how arash's stella is an ender of conflict and war, cause that's what it did in life.
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Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
Got distracted with other stuff, a better example is Castor and Polux.
- Location
- Void
To be fair, Robot Zeus only became fleshly divine spirit Zeus once he literally died to a planet wide calamity. That and the fact that they retain Talos as a part of that Mythos, at all, means more likely that the Culture was fragmented pretty badly in the aftermath. I could perhaps see Taylor (really Khepri) , or Scion being a possible manifestation of "The Golden Morning" akin to Tamamo Vitch being born from the Tunguska event.
But the main issue is really the fact that Taylor's existence is being intentionally buried, and Society afterwards even post-Ward still has a massive amount of problems to resolve before even thinking about looking into the incident. So there's no real reason to think a Taylor Cult would pop up compared to the already existent Fallen and the countless Warlords that now exist in the ruins.
Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
It was also noted by Lisa that they were going to fail at that, at least according to the various discussions I've read on that specific point. And that the main thing that she cared about hiding was Taylor Hebert=Khepri.
gold mourning as a whole was just not spoken about about the closest publicly gotten was there was a pin for capes who fought in it and survived. It was one of the big complaints of the anti parahuman faction that they weren't being told anything which is a shame because they did have legitimate grievances but it was undermined by everyone of them we saw being a Saturday morning cartoon villain in terms of intelligence and morals or actively helping them.
While this silence did end and Vicky's team explained stuff like scion being the source of powers and an alien which led to others joining in after they still kept quiet about taylor and her being the master. Translating that into servant terms your not likely to get it applied to hypothetical heroic spirit taylor/skitter/weaver but more heroic spirit khepri heavily influenced by the stories in addition of course to that one probably being a berserker or having some kind of skill like mental pollution.
James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
Yeah, no, whatever Wildbow said in Ward, 5000ish people are incapable of all agreeing to keep a secret, let alone actually keeping it. That story is out within a week of Gold Morning, and the more Legend or anyone else tries to suppress it, the more it spreads. Hell, the idea that every single one of the surviving capes would all have the same view on the events of Gold Morning, let alone Taylor's actions during it, already snaps my suspension of disbelief.
Get 5000 people together, all from different countries and cultures, and you couldn't even get them to agree to a fucking dinner menu.
Khepri being kept secret is something entirely to do with authorial fiat, because Wildbow wanted Taylor out of the sequel no matter what. She wasn't part of the story he wanted to tell with Vicky, so he needed the world to pretend she didn't exist. Ward's plot isn't generally something I have strong opinions on, but the mental gymnastics some of the characters have to be twisted through to make it possible - such as handing a lot of people gigantic idiot balls, making others mustache twirlers, and just generally removing nuance from some - make it impossible for me to read.
Get 5000 people together, all from different countries and cultures, and you couldn't even get them to agree to a fucking dinner menu.
Khepri being kept secret is something entirely to do with authorial fiat, because Wildbow wanted Taylor out of the sequel no matter what. She wasn't part of the story he wanted to tell with Vicky, so he needed the world to pretend she didn't exist. Ward's plot isn't generally something I have strong opinions on, but the mental gymnastics some of the characters have to be twisted through to make it possible - such as handing a lot of people gigantic idiot balls, making others mustache twirlers, and just generally removing nuance from some - make it impossible for me to read.
- Location
- Elsewhere
"I don't really like 'Golden Morning.' How about Shiny Yellow Morning?"
"I thought it was more of a bronzeish color."
"The hell are you guys talking about? It was totally blue from start to finish!"
- Location
- Leeds
"No, he was wearing a blue and black dress."
"It was white and gold. I'll fucking kill you."
True on all that
No knowing who is Taylor isI accept with all the capes
Because they wouldn't know her so only Kephri but not all of them would see her as the Controller
Shit
I'm suprise why they aren't any cult about Kephri
I would have thought that some Fallen would have believed that Taylor ascended to be like their Endbringer to destroy the false God
No knowing who is Taylor isI accept with all the capes
Because they wouldn't know her so only Kephri but not all of them would see her as the Controller
Shit
I'm suprise why they aren't any cult about Kephri
I would have thought that some Fallen would have believed that Taylor ascended to be like their Endbringer to destroy the false God
Another possibility is that you end up with a bit of a split situation, where the worlds that are "in the know" with regards to Khepri give rise to HS Taylor/Skitter/Weaver/Khepri who was responsible for the death of Scion. And the worlds still touched by GM, but without much Parahuman involvement give rise to a second HS based off the nameless general who led the fight against the golden god.
You'd end up with one spirit that is Taylor and one who's an abstraction, potentially radically different from her in reality. A bit like how Nameless is EMIYA, but isn't actually EMIYA.
You'd end up with one spirit that is Taylor and one who's an abstraction, potentially radically different from her in reality. A bit like how Nameless is EMIYA, but isn't actually EMIYA.
- Location
- Void
There's also the fact that there's a limited amount of capes who know who Taylor even is. Hell I think some of the Capes that got nabbed by Khepri never ever saw her, and from there POV were randomly doormakered from out of nowhere to fight against Zion. I don't think Khepri is the secret so much as Taylor is. In my mind it may not have all been an agreed upon thing to keep quiet about it, but not many people knew the full truth, others might have just wanted to put it all behind them while they go forward, or otherwise some may have thought to stop anyone looking into it to prevent them from getting Khepri: Electric Boogaloo.
Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
I remember something about someone (probably Lisa) putting Taylor's name in the list of people that died on the Rig.
i think the case will be that regardless of whether or not the capes decide to say nada about khepri and taylor, it will eventually come out and like 50-100 years in the future she will likely be in the history books as the one who took over everyone and got scion killed. even if in the short term (relatively speaking anyway, 10-20 years) it's being kept silent about. eventually word will spread and people will know. and since the throne is outside time and space it'll be part of her legend
"Wait, I thought we were talking about the Fairy Queen?"
"The fuck you smoking!? We were obviously talking about Legend!"
- Location
- Leeds
Taylor as Skitter and Weaver was able to leave permanent commands for her bugs to continuously okay whether she was conscious or even still in range or not.
Did this ability go away with the change to human control?
Bye the bye at the end didn't Khepri have some very negative views about herself, humanity and what she was forced to do? Taylor hated bullying right? Bet she didn't want to think about what she was doing to Scion. So who's idea was it to pretend that Taylor didn't exist?
she didn't actually, reading the final scene with her and contessa it's clear she thinks everything was worth it and if given the chance to go back she would do everything again if slightly different due to new information, like dinah being kidnapped during the bankjob. her view of humanity was that while small in the grand scheme of things, and unwilling to band together in the face of an apocalypse, it was still worth protecting. as for beating scion through bullying, i believe all the thoughts she had were disbelief that her experience with emma actually helped her winning against scion.
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