Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

[Bugs]

There is so much wrong here to unpack. Let me give it a shot…

And the Throne of Heroes is not connected with the timeline, so the fact that Taylor is still alive should not prevent her from summoning one of those.

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No, that wouldn't, but Servants explicitly can't be summoned to any time where their original is alive.

Shielder: That one is for Mash... But considering she went out of her way to protect the people of her territory? And what she did to try and stop Zion? She should qualify from that effort alone.

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Shielders use shields. Galahad qualifies because of his shield. Taylor has never used a shield at any time during her career.

Lancer: Battle Continuation. Nuff said. And she did wield Armsmaster's halberd when going one-on-one with Leviathan.

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Battle Continuation has nothing to do with the Lancer class. Also, using a polearm all of once does not a Lancer make. It has to be a significant part of their legend.

Rider: Didn't she have a giant bug to ride on called Atlas?

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Nor a steed a Rider.

Ruler: Khepri. If she doesn't qualify as a Ruler, then they should hav named the Class differently.

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Yes, they should have named the Class differently. Judge would have worked nicely, but the Ruler class is all about impartiality, not actual rulership (and no, at no point in canon Worm was Taylor ever impartial).

Moon Cancer: This is supposed to be a BB-only class. But is Jinako possessed by Ganesha counts, then the Taylor & QA has to count as well.

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No, it really doesn't. The requirements for the Moon Cancer Class are as yet unknown, but I think it means something that literally every qualifying Servant released has been involved in the Moon Cell Grail Wars.

Beast: Like Foreigner, she did have a link with an Alien in her head. If the Alien God can be a Beast, then so can Taylor & QA. Especially with the Fame Bonus Khepri should get from Earth Bet.

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Taylor already is a Beast, or at least a Beast candidate, according to WOG. Why do you think Fou hates her so much?

 

[The-Chained-One]

No, that wouldn't, but Servants explicitly can't be summoned to any time where their original is alive.

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Ignoring the exceptions of course, like EMIYA or that french guy who managed it cause everyone was sure he was dead.

 

[Bugs]

Ignoring the exceptions of course, like EMIYA or that french guy who managed it cause everyone was sure he was dead.

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Alright, correction: Heroic Spirits explicitly can't be Summoned to any time where their original is alive.

As for the French guy, who exactly are you talking about?

 

[The-Chained-One]

Alright, correction: Heroic Spirits explicitly can't be Summoned to any time where their original is alive.

As for the French guy, who exactly are you talking about?

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Prelati, the dude that gilles de rais has the book of, i heard the dude's somehow alive in the modern day and that in fate/strange fake or something he uses something he owns as a catalyst to purposefully summon a heroic spirit version of himself, cause according to his legend he died ages ago. I imagine it's similar to how medea doesn't actually have any point in her myth where she dies and just kinda appears in some legends and myths as a side character or mention occasionally after her owns story is over, until she suddenly stops. At which point they're 'dead' according to myth or legend or whatever, not entirely sure tho. Not 100% of the details of the guy, but he summoned a female version of himself or something as a caster.

edit: apparently prelati the master is the female version and the servant is male? I dunno how that works, a case of history being mistaken like artoria maybe? And then the heroic spirit twisting to fit legend? Magical gender change maybe?

 

[Bugs]

Prelati, the dude that gile de rais has the book of, i heard the dude's somehow alive in the modern day and that in fate/strange fake or something he uses something he owns as a catalyst to purposefully summon a heroic spirit version of himself, cause according to his legend he died ages ago. I imagine it's similar to how medea doesn't actually have any point in her myth where she dies and just kinda appears in some legends and myths as a side character or mention occasionally after her owns story is over, until she suddenly stops. At which point they're 'dead' according to myth or legend or whatever, not entirely sure tho. Not entirely sure of the details, but he summoned a female version of himself or something as a caster.

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Ah. Well, all I know about Fate!Francois Prelati (or the real thing, really) comes from that one Re:Zero cross, but just going off that, he could use his illusion magic to fool the World into thinking he's dead. In fact, that may be how he managed to survive in the first place.

 

[Blinktwice13]

Prelati's entire thing is some form of resurrective immortality. He (or she in the modern day) goes from body to body each time they die. The Prelati summoned is the first life as recorded in the Throne. So while the soul is the same, they aren't the same person - HS Prelati is the Caster who cooked up Gilles' book whilst SF Master Prelati is the many-times-incarnated version that has memories long after the HS first death.

It's a lot of questions regarding copy and original and whatnot, but it's still not exactly the same person.

Or if you want to drop semantics, Prelati can summon Prelati because Prelati already done died.

 

[The-Chained-One]

That's some wack stuff. But then, as is the case with fate, it's about the exceptions, not the rules

 

[Windborne]

Snip

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I swear you people are all completely missing the point of a Servant Summoning performed without a Catalyst. It's based on what Servant is most compatible with the Summoner. Taylor will never, ever, summon another version of herself that way. And you can't summon using your own body as a Catalyst. For the exact same reason Emiya Shirou could never summon EMIYA without a Catalyst even if EMIYA wasn't a Counter Guardian. They have an instinctual hate of each other, the phrase "Neither of us can live while the other one breathes" very much applies to both cases here. Granted Taylor's potential Servant forms aren't trying to intentionally cause a paradox to end their existence by killing their living self, but they would never get along, much less work together under a Master-Servant contract.

Additionally what Contessa was saying about the choice Marie had wasn't whether or not Taylor could summon a version of herself. It's that if Marie chose to let Taylor die she could summon a Servant using Taylor's body as a Catalyst. Or, as she did in this story, she could save Taylor and gain someone with a skill no one else has in Marie's Earth, excepting potentially Zeltrech and TYPE-MOON is a lot less scary than Zion was so even that is arguable. A true Godslayer, with the potential to become a Master that could Rayshift that would undoubtedly owe her life to Marie. A Master who had saved Humanity across countless Worlds already, experience that could help Marie accomplish her Family's long standing goal of saving Humanity through Chaldea. That's what Contessa was talking about when she said the strongest Master. Frankly Marie chose the incredibly obvious answer.

More over @James D. Fawkes has stated multiple times, almost as much as I have, that such a situation won't be happening in this story. If you want to read such a story, read Essence.

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Fair enough.

 

[Isiri Pudireach]

I also want to do that gag. But finding a good place to start it is proving awkward.

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If you need a starting place, you can have some scenes where the servants are chatting among each other during travel, especially if they are discussing the masters. Jekyll and Mordred would certainly talk about them. Also you could have little side stories to show the quirky life of Chaldera. Maybe encourage omakes by making some cannon.

 

[buli-buli]

So I've been brainstorming on future stuff.

Is this story's Caster Cu or Odin? One of his noble phantasms literally has Odin in the name. And I noticed that he only ever name-dropped Aife when discussing his history. But, he did mention Aife. All that said, I don't know what kind of effect that would have on the story. His insistence that Taylor summon him as a Lancer could be taken as him wanting Chaldea to summon the real Cu, but Odin would be a monstrously powerful Lancer himself.

On a completely different note, I had an interesting brain blast when thinking about how Taylor will react to future characters.
The villains in the London Singularity map distressingly well to Chaldea. We have a villain with an insect army, a famous inventor, and a genius physician with extensive magical knowledge. Makiri/Taylor, Babbage/Da Vinci, and Paracelsus/Romani.
That implies a deliberate choice in minions on the big bad's part. Of course, it cannot be intentional, unless Solomon cheated on his information gathering somehow, but I can totally see Taylor picking up on it and getting paranoid.

 

[Lagoon12002]

Is this story's Caster Cu or Odin? One of his noble phantasms literally has Odin in the name. And I noticed that he only ever name-dropped Aife when discussing his history. But, he did mention Aife. All that said, I don't know what kind of effect that would have on the story. His insistence that Taylor summon him as a Lancer could be taken as him wanting Chaldea to summon the real Cu, but Odin would be a monstrously powerful Lancer himself.

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It's doubtful to happen, Divine Spirits are hard to summon, even with a fully-operational Chaldea. Odin will have to remain best magic doggo for now, until a sufficiently perilous situation comes up and he casts off his disguise to flex on the opposition.

 

[synnero]

"Don't worry, Taylor. The Director is fine. Have faith, yes? She'll be back before you know it, good as new."

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...Why do i have this weird feeling that they'll find Olga Marie whole and confused when they do their next shift? Or maybe i'm just hoping she'll somehow achieve some weird method since she's basically engraved in the FATE system.

Or we wait for the story to actually gather the necessary materials or find some other method to get her back. Still, does this mean we butterflied a very important character in the future away?

I also want to do that gag. But finding a good place to start it is proving awkward.

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That said, are you entertaining ideas of "Taylor's self got kidnapped as her body take a nap" thing Ritsuka "canonically" went through for a lot of FGO events? Dream cycle is one thing, but them events... Or maybe you already answered that sometime in the past. If you did, should make it an information tag about what you thought about including those.

 

[Formerly]

...Why do i have this weird feeling that they'll find Olga Marie whole and confused when they do their next shift? Or maybe i'm just hoping she'll somehow achieve some weird method since she's basically engraved in the FATE system.

Or we wait for the story to actually gather the necessary materials or find some other method to get her back. Still, does this mean we butterflied a very important character in the future away?

That said, are you entertaining ideas of "Taylor's self got kidnapped as her body take a nap" thing Ritsuka "canonically" went through for a lot of FGO events? Dream cycle is one thing, but them events... Or maybe you already answered that sometime in the past. If you did, should make it an information tag about what you thought about including those.

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I hope not. Let the Gudas have their thing. Taylor's gotta have her own. It is a sign of poor writing when you introduce a new character and they just slot into an already present character's niche.

 

[Windborne]

So @Chuck12 you wanted proof that summons work based off just meeting for Chaldea so here it is. Taken directly from the game that shows Chaldea can summon Servants that shouldn't exist like Reines or Void Shiki. Can't get more Canon than this.





And proof of Ritsuka summoning Specter versions of the Servant's they're contracted to.



Sorry can't get the images to work with spoiler tags for some reason.

I hope not. Let the Gudas have their thing. Taylor's gotta have her own. It is a sign of poor writing when you introduce a new character and they just slot into an already present character's niche.

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I'd say it's not so much as slotting into an already taken niche as it is that Taylor is just as important and probably will experience the exact same thing as the Twins. At least when it comes to Events like that, like the Prison Tower or White Day 2018 (Moriarty Mini-event). Stuff like Scathach's Trial Quest will probably just be the Twins since they're the ones contracted to Mash who is the whole reason Servants can even gather in Chaldea even if they aren't contracted.

 

[V01DRei]

You know, with FGO events, the 'time' for them to happen is a bit arbitrary - Chaldea is in a Schrodinger Cat type bubble, which is a bit similar to the Temple of Time.
However, they knew the date when this started, and they have time keeping mechanisms (I think there was a comment somewhere about 'how long it has been'), meaning they can keep track of what the date would be. They'd also do so to help ensure mental stability of all surviving Chaldea Staff. Both for rotations/shifts (once the situation is no longer critical) and for Morale Boosting Events (which is why they plan to celebrate the Holidays.)
The reason this can't clash with Singularity timeframes is that Rayshifts INSERT them into the Singularities, meaning that the arrival is at a specific point in the Singularity's timeline, not related to Metatime.
Metatime is only relevant to the stability of the bubble protecting Chaldea.

@James D. Fawkes - would you be willing, after you write the first chapter to show they happen (especially where they happen in the plot line), to accept other people expanding on them? Of course, you'd have final say for whether they match how you think events would go…

I could swear I read somewhere they servants from Singularities go back to Chaldea with them… (at the very least, I can easily seeing that being the case for Surviving Servants - though possibly only going forward.
If nothing else, they'd find it a pleasant surprise when they find that the return rayshift also grabbed dissipating servants.

And proof of Ritsuka summoning Specter versions of the Servant's they're contracted to.

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I believe the first time they did this was during the 1.5 arc - there was a singularity that resisted Servants Summons.

Servants don't need sleep.

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Doesn't mean they can't!
And in a place like Chaldea, where many of them would likely become bored otherwise, it probably is something they should do.
Also, we never see a servant Astralize in Chaldea (or anywhere else, I think) - so summoning may work a little differently.
Either way, acting as if they were still alive (for the most part) is likely going to be necessary for everyone.
even if just to help the surviving staff members forget/ignore thier differences. Especially becuase, with the loss of manpower Flauros caused they need all the assistance they can get.
As such, getting the FATE system running is actually a priority, since that will have longer term benefits.

 

[Nitramy]

I just had the biggest idea ever for a Singularity 6 clusterfuck if there ever was one.

Gonna DM you about it.

 

[Sad Machine]

A servant Taylor should be pretty up there with the heavy hitters but I dont know how it would work since she needed an army to kill Scion and the rest of the Type killers did it themselves. I'd love her to be slightly below Artoria in power level but im pretty sure shes just gonna end up EMIYA level.

 

[Sleeping Moon]

1. Her Nobel Phantasm is running the systems, so the data would likely pass through it.

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When Flauros did his sabotage, before that Chaldea is fully operational with their equipments and does not need Da Vinci's Noble Phantasm resources to duct tape everything.

And the Throne of Heroes is not connected with the timeline, so the fact that Taylor is still alive should not prevent her from summoning one of those.

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I believe it would need for Taylor to similarly done what Paisen did to bring Xiang Yu and overight whatever perspective humanity have with him being an evil man by putting her perspective and memories on the Throne. I think that's the reason why Contessa implied by using her body as a catalyst and thereby hinting letting her die for the Throne to nab her soul.

Moon Cancer: This is supposed to be a BB-only class. But is Jinako possessed by Ganesha counts, then the Taylor & QA has to count as well.

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Don't forget Kiara managing to worm her way into it!!

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Uhhh...

Ganesha has it by way of BB being the one who pointed Ganesha at Jinako as a host, while Kiara has it by essentially copying BB via haxx. It really is just 'a thing BB can do because she's an AI overlord from the moon and felt like it'

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No, it really doesn't. The requirements for the Moon Cancer Class are as yet unknown, but I think it means something that literally every qualifying Servant released has been involved in the Moon Cell Grail Wars.

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Basically these, most of our evidence about the Moon Cancer are what is stated above, heck it is debatable even if it is of similar situation with Foreigners as a catch all term used by Chaldea and by extension the Alter Egos due to the characteristics this beings have in similarities even if they are not genuine natural Servants.

Uh, no? Like an alternate timeline is not the same as a lost belt, like a lost belt is a timeline that's supposed to have been pruned from existence due to stagnation, earth bet is not an example of that.

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Uhhh....

Bet basically has a:

Shitty international trade due to Levi and thus economical development has stunted badly.

Key cities and countries fell and deteriorate due to the Endbringers.

Development of technology has much stunted unless overhauling tech based on understanding the development in Aleph that is purposely available.

A lot of resources gets atrociously wasted and used heavily without any marginal global gain because they are used by Tinkers who's tech deteriorate over time, has much heavy collateral damages in cape fights and basically wastes a lot of things without being streamlined and standardized to the public. Except Dragon's who cannot fully give out much due to restrictions in both her power and her programming.

A lot of techs did not develop either due to Entity and parahuman sabotage, or fear on further developing them due to the extreme examples being thrown around by parahumans in a day to day basis.

And the real clincher, humanity basically did not had much of a desire for space flight which is one of the main prerogatives the Human Order have to continue further due to the mind raping and pre-post cog viewing demented birb.

And that's not even thinking about the sinkhole that is Ward where reality is literally breaking to the seams and the refugees are just trying to survive a basically slow Apocalypse and those in the know has possible fear on what's out there in space given the Entities making the afraid of the dark so I stick with my lamp scenario happen.

Is this story's Caster Cu or Odin? One of his noble phantasms literally has Odin in the name.

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He is a hidden Psuedo-Servant which Odin was doing his own thing in helping solve the various shitshows, heck, Cu is even one on the wheel tbh. Also that Noble Phantasm is one basically using all 18 Primordial Runes to activate a powerful Mystery placed by Odin in the Thaumaturgic Foundation in Runecrafts and in theory can be used by those who knows all 18 of them but there are still unknown restrictions on it.

Its just basically unlocking 18 locks to a nuke in comparison and got empowered further cause the one going to yeet it is empowered by Odin.

 

[The-Chained-One]

Uhhh....

Bet basically has a:

Shitty international trade due to Levi and thus economical development has stunted badly.

Key cities and countries fell and deteriorate due to the Endbringers.

Development of technology has much stunted unless overhauling tech based on understanding the development in Aleph that is purposely available.

A lot of resources gets atrociously wasted and used heavily without any marginal global gain because they are used by Tinkers who's tech deteriorate over time, has much heavy collateral damages in cape fights and basically wastes a lot of things without being streamlined and standardized to the public. Except Dragon's who cannot fully give out much due to restrictions in both her power and her programming.

A lot of techs did not develop either due to Entity and parahuman sabotage, or fear on further developing them due to the extreme examples being thrown around by parahumans in a day to day basis.

And the real clincher, humanity basically did not had much of a desire for space flight which is one of the main prerogatives the Human Order have to continue further due to the mind raping and pre-post cog viewing demented birb.

And that's not even thinking about the sinkhole that is Ward where reality is literally breaking to the seams and the refugees are just trying to survive a basically slow Apocalypse and those in the know has possible fear on what's out there in space given the Entities making the afraid of the dark so I stick with my lamp scenario happen.

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You're not wrong in thinking it can easily become a lost belt, but it's not reached it yet i think, the world hasn't stopped progressing entirely, a temporary stop, to my knowledge, is not enough to vanish a timeline, cause in the end the entities were beaten and ward was ultimately not a case of everything is broken and humanity's fate is sealed to the ziz's wims. humanity has a chance, and although they're scared to explore, i'm unsure if that'll stop things entirely. To my understanding of it, earth bet is in a shit state of being, fucking broken down and on life support, but not yet over the edge. If one were to look at it in nasuverse terms anyway.

 

[Sleeping Moon]

You're not wrong in thinking it can easily become a lost belt, but it's not reached it yet i think, the world hasn't stopped progressing entirely, a temporary stop, to my knowledge, is not enough to vanish a timeline, cause in the end the entities were beaten and ward was ultimately not a case of everything is broken and humanity's fate is sealed to the ziz's wims. humanity has a chance, and although they're scared to explore, i'm unsure if that'll stop things entirely. To my understand of it, earth bet is in a shit state of being, fucking broken down and on life support, but not yet over the edge. If one were to look at it in nasuverse terms anyway.

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True, Bet is still salvageable in Worm timeline, possibly before the time skip and literally impossible when Gold Morning occurred.

On Wards case, I disagree, A lot of the diversity in humanity got yeeted out due to various evacuations on different parallel worlds done so only certain little diversity is left much, heck Gimel's the City which was an attempt as cultural melting pot epically failed when in the end parahuman and their relatives are in agreement to stay there.

Also who said that the Entities were beaten out? The epic GoT shitshow when reality broke(and got done in a second time) dropped kick the biggest honchos vying for the Iron ThroneShard Hub and one is just even imprisoned by a wandering storm and got benched is almost just basically a stop gap and end of a round.

Ignoring the possibility of the Sleeper dying of old age, there is always the possibility of Ziz returning back and worse, those who have experience in fighting her are either dead or old, especially if one of her blind spots, Dinah Alcott dies or had aged enough for complications to happen.

Ignoring the hidden Ziz bombs even that would be possibly impossible to detonate critically by Ziz, there is enough divergence, especially when it is 2016 and no multidimensional technology supposed to happen, the sheer delay of humanity even if they manage to sustain themselves until the next Not!GoT situation, humanity will try to progress instead into parallel worlds further delaying on progressing instead to go up in space and leave the cradle by Nasuverse standard and it will take a long ass time for them to even think of going up especially with the multidimensional space whale colonies possibly up there swimming around.

 

[Finagle007]

US seizes Epic of Gilgamesh tablet, considered one of world's oldest works of literature, from Hobby Lobby

Anyone who's read Strange Fake should be very, very worried right about now...

 

[RoboRenee]

US seizes Epic of Gilgamesh tablet, considered one of world's oldest works of literature, from Hobby Lobby

Anyone who's read Strange Fake should be very, very worried right about now...

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No, to be quite honest in that scenario I would be more worried about Hobby Lobby having that given their track record.

Also what does this possibly have to do with this thread in any possible way?

 

[Finagle007]

No, to be quite honest in that scenario I would be more worried about Hobby Lobby having that given their track record.

Also what does this possibly have to do with this thread in any possible way?

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Perhaps have a minor Singularity pop up involving it being used to summon him? Or during Epic of Remnant?

 

[Tekomandor]

let's get back on topic
News and Politics is that way if you'd like to talk about the US government seizing catalysts important historical artifacts from Hobby Lobby.

 

[Windborne]

So to get back on topic has there been a general consensus on whether Taylor should inform Mash about her insight on her Heroic Spirit benefactor? At least if she still remembers her stray thought during that rather hectic battle.

Personally I'm thinking Taylor should not inform Mash, for now. After all Lord Camelot is only as strong as the heart that wields it is steadfast. If Mash isn't confident enough in herself enough knowing the truth too soon can only hurt her. But I'm curious if others feel differently.