Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]
- Thread starter James D. Fawkes
- Start date
- Crossover
Firstly, thanks for the update even if i'm kind of late to the show. Secondly...
Still, Mash IS one of those things Romani did right. I won't ever argue against that.
Also there are several Servants in this Singularity alone that can be described as murder train. All of them Berserkers. One has his own immortal army. One is basically unkillible until he blow himself up. And one is Lu Bu. That said i'm probably very biased here as it's Rika, and she can totally mean anything... Damn it, my expectation...
Thus that discussion might be pointless at this moment since it would all just be completely guessing at best.
...Is she complementing on Romani's fathering skill? I'm definitely reading too much into this, but is she also taking a dig at Cu's fathering skill here?
Still, Mash IS one of those things Romani did right. I won't ever argue against that.
...the irony is pretty strong with this. You made me have to force in a chuckle. I approve.
Truth. That one is the coolest one of them all. I also recall kind of getting mind blown by how it all ended, but that's not the important bit.
...Damn it Rika. I demand a refund of my expectation. I also demand someone go and give that girl a smack to the back of her head for this heresy!
Also there are several Servants in this Singularity alone that can be described as murder train. All of them Berserkers. One has his own immortal army. One is basically unkillible until he blow himself up. And one is Lu Bu. That said i'm probably very biased here as it's Rika, and she can totally mean anything... Damn it, my expectation...
That would entirely depends on how much development she went through before she meet with any version of Gil. Kid Gil likely won't care too much one way or another and might just find her amusing. Cas-Gil is the mature one that can still make use of her (but he is so very far away...). Archer Gil is the one that might kill her for some suppose offense against one of his unknown standard. But again, this all depends on how Taylor developed down the line before meeting any of them.
Thus that discussion might be pointless at this moment since it would all just be completely guessing at best.
She hadn't called her NP yet, and also remember that if she needs she can just fucking jump like, what, 30 feet in the air? And that's assuming she can't recover from a strike, which seems unlikely considering that she is strictly superior to Cu and Cu could probably recover from an attack like that.
Like, that's not the way he wins. He wins by either A: Pulling out his Reality Marble and having infinite no-cost weapons which he can sprinkle in with a couple Noble Phantasms that can get him the kill or B: pulling out some weapon that can instakill her like Caledbolg or w/e. The fact is that she is strictly better than him in every way that matters in a non-lethal fight.
James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
The one advantage Cu does have over Aife in a fight against Emiya is his Protection from Arrows. In that regard, her defense isn't quite as strong. However, as she hints at, the form she's taken here is different from her normal Rider form, in that her aspect as a warrior queen has been emphasized more strongly, so her offense is quite literally "the best it's ever been." Her use of Primordial Runes is much more fluid than normal as a result, giving an already A-Rank Servant strength that is just shy of qualifying her for the Grand slot.
Aife be stronk.
But she's still not a Grand Servant. Make no mistake about that. If the task is "killing gods," where distance isn't a concern, then she might be called in that sort of form, but it almost certainly wouldn't be Rider. Ruler or Assassin, maybe? Perhaps Lancer, although strictly speaking, she has Gáe Bolg as a result of the myths attributing it to her and not because she actually owned it.
(Aife has a line a few chapters away that might clear up the "godslayer" part, there. Not gonna share it now.)
In any case, Emiya is good, and he definitely killed Heracles six times. However, while Berserker Heracles doesn't lose any of his agility or his instinct for fighting, his skill with weapons is much diminished. It's very much an entirely different thing to fight a skilled warrior than it is to fight a rampaging train.
...Come to think of it, how would the Death Rune interact with Godhand? Does it take a single life, or does its imposition of "instant death" burn through more than one? A frightening consideration, when Cu with downgraded Rune Magic can turn a curbstomp into "a fight with some chances."
- Pronouns
- He, his, him, they
Sorry, should've specified. When the Gils learn of Taylor's history. Sha Naqba Imuru, or other reasons.
wasn't it stated that there are some requirements to becoming a grand, like clairvoyance for grand caster, and that for grand assassin only old man hassan is valid?
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- Location
- Texas
Considering it doesn't even fully put down Holmes when he gets tagged with it in LB2? I wouldn't expect it to do much, if anything to Heracles.
I don't think that she could be summoned as a Grand Ruler. Mainly because, if my understanding of canon is correct (not guaranteed), there are no Grand Rulers. Mainly because there is no such thing as a Grand Ruler. In theory, when a Beast shows up, the Counter Force summons seven Grand Servants, one from each of the main seven classes, to cancel the apocalypse. Ruler, being an Extra Class, is left out. Of course, the Nasuverse is littered with exceptions to rules.
The reason why this Anti-Beast protocol doesn't work out in practice because the Beasts are smart enough to work around the Counter Force. Goetia hides inside his reality marble, where the Counter Force can't see him. Tiamat gets the Counter Force's full attention, but since it is weakened by the destruction of humanity, only Hassan is called up. Both pieces of Beast III lay low by restricting their influence. Beast VII destroyed the Earth from outer space and worked through proxies, so when the Counter Force finally acted it had been weakened to the point that it could only send two Grand Servants to the most likely location of Beast VII's descent.
SilverShadows
Under autumn skies
- Location
- US
There's also that the Ruler class is just meant to be, and built to the purpose of being, an impartial referee for Holy Grail Wars. It's not a "king/leader class." It's literally just a fallback incase the appointed Overseer is considered untrustworthy by the Grail. The only reason some random Saint didn't show up to kick Risei and Kirei out of their position as Overseer of the Holy Grail War due to cheating in Zero and Stay Night respectively is because the Grail itself was already corrupted by Angry Mango.
A "Grand Ruler" would be functionally useless because it offers no actual advantage against a Beast, it's a class built entirely around forcing Servants specifically to follow the rules.
The class advantage against Moon Cancers is a gameplay conceit, not an actual in universe trait.
The seven main classes aren't actually that special from a lore standpoint, just that they are specifically the strongest in the current texture of humanity. The other ones should theoretically be able to have Grand versions, altho I imagine that something like Grand Ruler would have to be fucking Buddha or smth like that.
Also, important to note that Grand Servants are specifically anti-Beast, and the strengthened Saint Graphs are just part of being summoned like that. They can still be summoned with a normal Saint Graph (Orion summoned in a real HGW would be massively less powerful than Grand Archer Orion, even ignoring the mana difference). There are Heroic Spirits who have different jobs, like Arturia (who ISN'T Grand Saber) and other wielders of Excalibur being anti-Outsider warriors, since Excalibur excels at telling things from outside to fuck off. It would make sense that there are anti-divine spirit/authority/god Heroic Spirits.
I mean, all of the classifications are built by humanity, so Ruler being a new class that gets retroactively applied to the entire Human Order checks out, as well as a Grand Ruler acting as an ultimate fair arbitrator who...
huh, shit, Grand Ruler might just be the Holy Grail, with a wraith summoned as its "face" if it ever got summoned in the same way Ishtar takes on Rin's body.
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SilverShadows
Under autumn skies
- Location
- US
At that point, that'd just be Alaya itself manifesting directly through an avatar wouldn't it? Meaning "Grand Ruler" would just be the Counter Force itself and the title would be more a technicality than anything actually meaningful. In the same way BBhotep is still "Moon Cancer" despite literally being a Foreigner in all but name.
...so, like....definitely a Saberface at least. And knowing Nasu it'll probably show up in a Saber Wars event as "The Will of the Saber-cosm" or something.
Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
Buddha canonically has the Saver class, along side Jesus. The requirement for this class is that you have saved countless people.
Technically Taylor qualifies.
James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
I haven't tried to build a Grand Servant Aife, so I was just throwing out random classes that she qualifies for. The point was that, because of where and when she was summoned in this case, she's about as strong as a Servant can get without being a Grand. Or, you know, having a bunch of goddesses stuffed into her Spirit Origin.
That doesn't mean she shits all over everyone. I want to be clear on that. Aife's strongest available NP right now is A+ (although, considering proximity to the Age of Gods, maybe an extra + is deserved... Haven't thought that out. Primordial Runes might make for a rank-up too). That's her chariot. She could bitch slap Saber, probably Lancelot, maybe Gawain (as long as NotS isn't on), and she and Herk would have a good slugfest for a while, all using nothing but her sublime martial arts skills. But. And this is a big, important BUT: only until Excalibur comes out. If Excalibur gets used, or any other NP that simply outranks hers too much, she can be killed. She and Scathach and even Cu all share that weakness, that they're awesome at close range, one-on-one combat, and they might even have some pretty good Anti-Army NPs, but nothing they have is so special and so awesome that they can outmatch the heavyweights when it comes to instantaneous damage output.
It's just, you know, Taylor's description of "a hurricane in the shape of a woman" is really accurate, and that makes it a bit hard to get the time and distance needed to safely charge and unleash NPs like that.
That doesn't mean she shits all over everyone. I want to be clear on that. Aife's strongest available NP right now is A+ (although, considering proximity to the Age of Gods, maybe an extra + is deserved... Haven't thought that out. Primordial Runes might make for a rank-up too). That's her chariot. She could bitch slap Saber, probably Lancelot, maybe Gawain (as long as NotS isn't on), and she and Herk would have a good slugfest for a while, all using nothing but her sublime martial arts skills. But. And this is a big, important BUT: only until Excalibur comes out. If Excalibur gets used, or any other NP that simply outranks hers too much, she can be killed. She and Scathach and even Cu all share that weakness, that they're awesome at close range, one-on-one combat, and they might even have some pretty good Anti-Army NPs, but nothing they have is so special and so awesome that they can outmatch the heavyweights when it comes to instantaneous damage output.
It's just, you know, Taylor's description of "a hurricane in the shape of a woman" is really accurate, and that makes it a bit hard to get the time and distance needed to safely charge and unleash NPs like that.
Mm. Somehow, I still can't shake the feeling that Romulus is stronger, tho. Like, not as strong as in Quirinus-Mode, but still in that S+ tier of people around, if you only count lore power.
Stahor
BookWorm
- Location
- Russia, Moscow
Bit of lore\game mechanics conflict, but i would say game-wise Scathach is unmatched in single-target killing capacity against anything she has class advantage of (especially when God-Killer is in play).
- Location
- Somewhere over the Rainbow
If the quality of Mana makes things stronger, it would be for both sides, making the effective rank unchanged.
(It's an EXTERNAL modifier, whereas + or - are do to internal factors.)
Death Rune would likely only burn through 1 life, if it manages to get past his resistances.
Grandpa Hassan is the one who could ignore the multiple lives.
(Scariest Demi-Servant ever: Shiki hosting Grand Hassan.
James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
It's not about quality of mana, it's about proximity to the Age of Gods. It'll make more sense when her chariot gets more mention in a chapter or two. "Another Brick in the Road," unless I'm mistaken, which is Chapter 41 (XLI).
- Location
- Void
Mystery makes up a lot of difference considering that IC, the visual novel, where a scene which was considered by WOG to be the Wizard-Marshall and Crimson Moon's fight in miniature, directly brought this up.
I'll link the fight scene when I get the chance.
I'll link the fight scene when I get the chance.
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- Location
- Brazil
Nah, King Hassan is a murderous religious zealot, he would clash with both Shiki's (Nanaya and Ryogi) psrsonalities.
Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
What about Tohno?/jk
- Location
- Brazil
Would spend the whole day killing chairs/jk
French Prince of Bell Air - by Finagle007
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
@James D. Fawkes You really should have had Kiyohime join up back in Orleans, given Lancelot's presence here. She'd be instrumental in taking out the United Empire in a way they'd never see coming.
- Have Kiyohime summon her bell.
- Have Mash stuff Lancelot into the bell.
- Have all three Masters use their command spells to supercharge Lancelot.
- Have Arash shoot the belled Lancelot at the United Empire's capital.
- Have Emiya make popcorn for everyone to have while watching the fireworks.
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- Location
- Philadelphia
So does she have the "dual-class" feature like Semiramis, or would her Caster form be capable of even more nonsense?
- Location
- Out there
Huh, what a sight would that be. I've seen Kephri being tagged as Berserker before, but not Saver.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Jesus has yet to appear in Nasu, for obvious reasons, but yes, he'd likely be a Saver. But saving countless people isn't enough; Saver is an "exalted Messiah-type" Servant. Kiara would have qualified for Saver if she'd been able to throw off Zepar's manipulations and utterly reject the alternate versions of herself he showed her; the CCC and Emiya Alter-origin Kiaras in particular.