Fencer
Writer
- Location
- 2nd shift
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's actually canon straight from book six outvoted three to one she goes along for the game.
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Harry Potter and the Skittering Spouse
- Thread starter Fencer
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy Superhero
Windborne
Devourer of Stories
- Location
- Oregon
Well I'm down to doing that if you are up for it when you need it. I won't claim to be a comprehensive Potterverse wiki, but I'm not bad at workshopping ideas to keep things on the level or in character. Like I've got a couple ideas you might want to use for this Fic in the very late stages to right at least one of the wrongs Rowling made in my opinion when writing the last few books. Part of it has got the potential to be pretty funny, but actually believably plausible. The other would be more impactful narratively and for character growth.
Plus Hermione is doing it as a way to help Harry cheer up, who just went through something pretty traumatic, and that was before Vegas happened. She's well aware that Harry loves to fly to relax and is being a good friend. That being said she probably wouldn't be playing it for long stretches of times since she was pretty severely injured not too long ago herself. Taylor being around probably is why she let herself be coaxed out to fly more despite not being fond of it or in the proper condition to play Quidditch.
Mystearica
Quoth the Raven
- Location
- meditating over Titan's Tower
The Marietta thing loses its justifiability when you remember that Hermione is not prescient. She had no way of knowing who might snitch or why, and seemingly didn't care at all as to their circumstances. She was just as willing to give one of them permanent incurable acne for being captured and forced to give up information. Imagine being a loyal friend and being taken and tortured into giving information about your friends, only to then also get irreversible super-acne as a farewell gift. Hermione does not have a moral leg to stand on here. Building in a punishment but no method of protection against being forced to divulge relevant information is both careless and frankly cruel.
Also please note that blackmail and unlawful imprisonment are still crimes, no matter who they are perpetrated against. Skeeter being a twat does not suddenly mean Hermione didn't break the law. That isn't how that works.
This isn't to say that Taylor wouldn't have done just as bad or worse things in similar situations, but rather to underline that Hermione's house is made of glass, so everyone around can see her being a massive hypocrite.
Windborne
Devourer of Stories
- Location
- Oregon
Not really, Hermione was operating on a war time level of thinking, even if it's only subconsciously. She did nothing wrong by giving Marietta a clear mark that she betrayed Hermione and everyone else's trust. By the point the DA is formed Umbridge had already made it very, very clear to Hermione that she was a serious threat to herself and her best friend by torturing Harry with those quills and preventing students from learning how to protect themselves when there were serious threats to them outside Hogwarts, and inside.
So Hermione took measures to prevent and punish people sharing critical information. Even if Marietta was tortured into giving up the information, she still was a betrayer. But she wasn't tortured and she broke the rules despite being told there'd be consequences if it occurred, so that's her own damn fault. The clear marking of that in the form of acne is still incredibly important to keeping people safe, because it's a clear sign that shit has gone wrong to everyone else in the DA and that they aren't safe because someone said something they shouldn't have. The fact that it occurs in a way that is incredibly damaging to one's social standing and physical appearance is just icing on the cake to Hermione. Yeah Marietta is fucked over for life, but this isn't a situation where you can be careless because it's a matter of life and death for dozens of people. Rita had also personally lead two smear campaigns, one of them so bad that it lead to serious bodily harm, against both Harry and Hermione by that point. And that's not even going into the issue with Hagrid or Remus being hurt by Rita as well. Keeping Rita confined is a serious escalation, but a solid way to prevent further issues and publicity damage while punishing someone who wronged her.
Taylor wouldn't be happy about, but she'd actually probably not be unreasonably upset since it really is to get them out of the country for their own safety; and to prevent potentially important information being leaked from a misstep in keeping to a cover story, or being gleaned from Legillimancy or torture. Not a great situation, but Taylor would appreciate the sheer pragmatism of Hermione's solution, particularly this Taylor.
The entire situation isn't really given much fleshing out sadly, another of Rowling's mistakes in my opinion. We really don't know how that was handled, she might have discussed it with her parents ahead of time so it could've been her parents solution to a problem and we just see Hermione performing the critical step without any other information that we as readers are unaware of. Or Hermione could be fucking with her own memory instead to make it even safer for her parents upon leaving the country so if Hermione is tortured for information on her family she gives the wrong information unknowingly, while her parents are actually just relocating to France to stay with the Delacours or something and they remember everything instead. She might be extracting the memories she's "erasing" to give back to them later like someone would do for use in a Pensieve, but since it really isn't brought up ever again we just don't know.
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RoboRenee
Trans of gender
- Location
- FFXIV, probably
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Everyone breaks under torture eventually. You will, eventually, tell the guy with a cattle prod or w/e anything you think they want to hear to make the pain stop (whether or not you actually know anything - you will absolutely make shit up to make the pain stop, which is what makes it functionally useless as a reliable information gathering tool). Being physically scarred on top of the emotional scars (and not just by the torture itself - by the friends you probably feel really fucking bad about betraying after the pain got way too bad) would just be stacking an additional cruelty on top of an already horrifying experience.
That is a theoretical situation where she is, in your words, fucked over for life because she was tortured until she probably would have been willing to confess to being the second shooter at the JFK assassination if it made the pain stop.
Windborne
Devourer of Stories
- Location
- Oregon
That's true, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's still a completely valid method of protecting secrets and that anyone who does break the agreement is saying what they shouldn't and is thus a betrayer. Ironically the acne is a bit of a misstep on Hermione's part. She should've let it occur an hour later after the breaking of the oath and set up a trigger in the coins to alert that someone talked. The immediate reaction and punishment of the oath breaking only confirms that Marietta was telling the truth to any potential questioner. Letting there be a bit of time after said oath breaking happens before punishment occurs muddies the metaphorical waters.
Regardless this solution Hermione had lets the people who are betrayed know who did it, regardless of the circumstances. In which case her permanent disfigurement is outweighed by potentially saving dozens or hundreds of lives by informing everyone, including those who were betrayed, that the secret is out and they need to be extra cautious. Is it callous? Almost certainly, but it's an elegant solution to a problem with no good outcome in the worst sort of situations. Also it's not necessarily permanent, Hermione is very good at magic, but I imagine someone like Bill Weasley or another curse breaker could get rid of the issue regardless. In which case it serves its purpose wonderfully, while still being a brutal punishment and warning alarm. Acne doesn't generally leave scars if you aren't an idiot, and only really serious dark magic leaves permanent scarring that magic can't remove anyways so even then it's not a major problem. I really don't get why people think it was a monstrous act on Hermione's part, it really wasn't.
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Mystearica
Quoth the Raven
- Location
- meditating over Titan's Tower
What a neat rationalization of actions that are definitively criminal and morally questionable at best! I would have loved to see Hermione's face if she herself had been tortured into giving up the DA. What a fun bit of turnabout that would be, hoist (or in this case, branded) by her own petard. Or maybe Ron? Or Harry? Oh but she'd probably remove it from them or herself, right? Despite being betrayers as you say. Absolutely ludicrous statements, here.
See we have these things called mitigating circumstances. Y'know? Where some things that are deemed wrong are punished less severely because of the circumstances in which they occur. Like how killing people is bad, but killing in defense of self or another is broadly considered less bad. Failing to include any such thing makes the snitch curse morally repugnant. Apparently this girl is so inherently vengeful and bloodthirsty that she thinks permanently branding people in a disfiguring fashion is a perfectly acceptable reaction to having information tortured out of them. By creating a curse which cannot discriminate properly she has fully endorsed this action. She embodies the worst kind of law enforcement, where every guilty party must be punished even if it means the innocent must suffer as well. What a monster, ey?
Also just a reminder that it doesn't matter what Rita did. Literally does not matter. Imprisoning people and also blackmailing them is illegal. Hermione is just as much a criminal as Taylor, which was the original point I wanted to drive home. Taylor had good reasons for doing a lot of illegal stuff too, but they were still illegal to do.
So again I reiterate, let us all point and laugh at Hermione doing the massive hypocrite dance in her glass house, flinging boulders with every step. Not that that's necessarily out-of-character.
And don't get me wrong here, I actually do like Hermione as a character. It's just obnoxious to see people pretending like she's perfect and definitely wouldn't ever take objectively criminal and subjectively morally repugnant actions. She can, and did.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
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Uh, you need to double check your facts.
Quoted from the wiki, with reference link: "The formation of the pimples on her face would eventually fade, leaving a few scars behind."[8]
The pimples lasted about two years, and were mostly gone by the time she left Hogwarts. I find that a remarkably light punishment for betraying 40 plus people, including your best friend to Umbridge.
Tisaku
Head Chief Thinkomancer
Criminal? Yes. Morally repugnant? No.
All this theoretical torture talk is just that. Theoretical. Marietta volunteered the information because she wanted her mother to reap the rewards and ended up with acne for a couple years. Umbridge was threatening expulsion and worse to those caught.
Further, we don't know the terms of the jinx. They could have been on any disclosure or betrayal specifically. What we do know is that it alerted the DA that they were made and who they couldn't trust anymore.
As for Skeeter? The woman who was physically spying on underaged children and reporting/lying about their personal lives to incite a mob on them at the behest of the government? She was damned right in defending herself by capturing her and blackmailing the woman. What other recourse did she have? The government and police were complicit.
Which doesn't wholly detract from your point that she's being hypocritical about the criminal thing. Hermione definitely does some really shitty things in the books at points. The bird assault, refusing to acknowledge Crookshanks being a problem in book three, and removing the agency of her parents are just a few that come to mind. But Marietta and Skeeter? Given their actions, motivations, and the stakes? Screw em.
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Crazael
Rehydrated Demon King
- Location
- Lost to the vagaries of time.
Huh. The way I was taught it was that any noun that ends with an "s" gets just the apostrophe and that singular or plural is irrelevant.
Lycanthromancer
The Arcane Fuzz
- Location
- USA
Nope. "Tonks's."
"Tonks" is singular.
"Tonks's" is singular possessive.
"Tonkses" is plural.
And "Tonkses'" is plural possessive.
There's no universe where "Tonks'" or "Tonk's" is correct.
backgroundnoise
Getting Too Old For This...
- Location
- The Shadowlands
I mean... to be fair, going by the canon timeline, Harry would be an accomplished hunter of dark wizards in his thirties while Taylor is still a gawky, out of shape teenager still getting her feet underneath her. Now if we're making them both the same age and using and older, more experienced Skitter, than yeah, she can kick his butt in a spar, but since Harry is a Wizard and all of his fighting experience (that doesn't include getting pummeled by Dudley) involves magic, that's literally tying his hands behind his back and asking him not to use his powers. To Harry's credit, with very little actual education, he was naturally talented enough at defending himself (with magic) that he was able to teach others, and was probably one of the better DADA teachers his generation had at Hogwarts. The 'backbone' thing seems a bit uncharitable as well to be honest.
I believe that Tonks' is actually the correct spelling for singular possessive just an apostrophe added on the end
SanguisAnima
Σ Series Z10/0 Group A 4A-GELU Mk1
- Location
- nowhere important
From how I understand it (and remember being taught), both the s-apostrophe and apostrophe-s use for indicating possession by a name ending in the letter S are grammatically correct; it's merely the choice of whether one is following formal or informal writing style. "James' photographs" is just as valid as "Severus's old notes".
One thing I've noticed is that some writers will tend to use the apostrophe-s if and when adding the -s sound indicates possession/possessive form, e.g. "Lucius's robes" or "Gringotts's front door".
When it comes to last names/family names, usage tends to be general/plural, encompassing more than an individual. In this scenario the s-apostrophe usage points to a general/collective possession ("Tonks' muggle-born roots"), whereas the apostrophe-s usage isolates an individual ("Tonks's metamorphagic abilities").
Again: this is how I remember being taught about possessive form.
One thing I've noticed is that some writers will tend to use the apostrophe-s if and when adding the -s sound indicates possession/possessive form, e.g. "Lucius's robes" or "Gringotts's front door".
When it comes to last names/family names, usage tends to be general/plural, encompassing more than an individual. In this scenario the s-apostrophe usage points to a general/collective possession ("Tonks' muggle-born roots"), whereas the apostrophe-s usage isolates an individual ("Tonks's metamorphagic abilities").
Again: this is how I remember being taught about possessive form.
- Location
- Considerably west and north of Poughkeepsie
Correct. I also think that which version is 'more correct' depends on when you were taught the rule in the first place. I'm in my mid-sixties, and I was taught to always use the bare single apostrophe form for all singular possessive proper names ending in 's': Chris' chair, James' bike, etc. Because of this, James's bike just looks wrong to me even though it is acceptable usage.
Stahor
BookWorm
- Location
- Russia, Moscow
- Yeah, little bit of pain never hurt anybody. If you know what I mean. Also, I think knives are a good idea. Big, fuck-off shiny ones. Ones that look like they could skin a crocodile. Knives are good, because they don't make any noise, and the less noise they make, the more likely we are to use them. Shit 'em right up. Makes it look like we're serious. Wands for show, knives for a pro.
- Taylor, is there something we should know about you?
- Location
- United States
Meanwhile, Sirus Ghost in the Afterlife what am i Chopped Liver?
Crazael
Rehydrated Demon King
- Location
- Lost to the vagaries of time.
Hermoine: but you arent a criminal! You didnt break the law!
Escaping from Azkaban has got to have been written down as a crime somewhere.
Crazael
Rehydrated Demon King
- Location
- Lost to the vagaries of time.
That obviously doesn't count since he was wrongfully imprisoned. *nodnod*
I've always put that sort of change over time down to teachers being Human.
Teacher make a mistakes, they teach those mistakes.
The people they taught grow up and become teachers, and teach what they learnt.
The practice spreads until it's the new normal.
This is generally what national standards is supposed to stop, however, over the last few decades it seems that "National Standards" has shifted to being another way to say "The minimum possible we can get away with teaching". Far too many schools don't even manage that much. Even when it is taught correctly, not everyone in the class learns what's being taught and some will misunderstand and misconstrue. The usage thus changes over time as the schools fail to actually teach the majority to do it correctly. Then of course you have those setting the "National Standards" seeing the shift in how it's being done, and instead of seeing the reality of it being due to a lack of proper education, they instead see a reason to lower the bar and shift the "National Standards" to show how "The language is constantly evolving and thus the Standards must move with the times" completely ignoring, intentionally or otherwise, the whole point of teaching a subject. Pretty sure in a few hundred years the language will have devolved into nothing more than variations on a grunt. Oh dear, seem the language will be ruled over by surly teenagers.
"y'all'd'nt've'd'd'I'd'nt've'd'y'all't've'd" anyone?
Crazael
Rehydrated Demon King
- Location
- Lost to the vagaries of time.
I mean, theres also the fact that theres lots of things in english that only exists because a particular rule applies elsewhere and people start applying it to similar areas where it wasn't applied before for no other reason that "it feels right".